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Taking my Homeowner's Association to task

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If you do decide to make one last heroic stand, make sure to plant landmines the night before.

All joking aside, we need more people like you to stick it to these HOA. Maybe they would realize they're supposed to be working towards the good of the neighborhood instead of trying to extort the neighborhood.
 
June 28, 2005



?Serene Ridge Homeowner?s Association?


Thank you for your letter and documents dated June 20th, even though they were not delivered until June 27th. Being that I travel a great deal, I was unable to receive your letters regarding HOA?s fees, and/or meeting(s) from earlier this month (I was informed these were distributed around the neighborhood by other neighbors). I was in Mexico and Oklahoma, and had no way of retrieving mail or other items. Regardless of this, please do not threaten liens on homes of owners who were NOT given sufficient notice as to the HOA?s plan or their request of dues. Notes dropped in mailboxes, or on the doors of a home do not constitute the proper legal serving of a document, especially if you are trying to enforce under Article V which requires written notice. Registered Mail with return receipt would be the only proper way to inform all Homeowners ? given that not all are on their property 365 days a year ? and that the HOA has no way of verifying that documents were actually RECEIVED.

I am concerned, quite frankly, with legal threats being made against my property without adequate notice. Section B states unequivocally: ?An Appropriate Entity will be formed at a time to be determined by the DEVELOPER. Upon formation of said association, the Developer will convey title of common areas to the association.? Has this occurred yet? As I mentioned, I was out of town, and thus received no notice that the Developer had formed the HOA, the duties of the HOA, nor the schedule for collection of dues. Specifically, did the Developer convey the title of common areas yet, and was the Developer the one who set the time of the meeting? If not, then why wasn?t this procedure followed? I wasn?t at the meeting, nor was I privy to what exactly ?formed? the HOA, other than the notice I received the other day that threatened a lien against my property. I was informed, however, that there was discussion about preventing property owners from renting out their property. If this discussion took place, then I would like to see the meeting minutes relating to this discussion, and what was proposed. This gravely concerns me, as it would abridge my personal property rights if I chose to rent out my dwelling while on an extended absence.

If I were sent a communiqué in an amicable fashion, I would be more likely to respond with friendly words. Since the tone of your letter is threatening (liens), the dating is off by 7 days (which would abridge your sufficient notice clause), and I did not receive it until four days before you ?claim? you will sanction me, I am not currently prepared to pay my dues until this matter is discussed before the complete HOA as to how future collections will be handled and communications will be delivered.

I would have no problem paying my dues if given sufficient notice and explanation, but a note in my mailbox that is misdated with legal threats ? does not make me wish to make every effort to dispose of this matter amicably. If you proceed with filing a lien on my property on July 1st, then please realize that I will hold you (Serene Ridge HOA and those personally responsible) liable for any damage or loss I might incur as a result of any false statement that you may make, or for improperly following the Covenant of Serene Ridge, 1st Sector. My wish is not to be further embroiled in a dispute, so I would ask that you rescind your threats to all Homeowner?s who received these letters and documents, until you can verify by Registered US Mail that all Homeowners have been apprised of what you demand and your deadline for such demands. Anything less is a precarious legal breech of the Serene Ridge Covenant, and may entitle any property owner to recover damages if a lien is filed.

Please understand that my response is predicated solely on the manner in which this matter was handled, and not based on my acceptance of the Serene Ridge Covenant. If the Serene Ridge HOA seeks to use the Covenant as a legal means to collect dues, then it must be prepared to follow the rule of the law itself, and all the guidelines and rules of the State of Alabama, as well as fully complying with the terms of the Covenant. If you wish to rescind your threats of liens, then my dues will be paid no later than 24 hours after receiving such notice.

I require a response by Thursday, June 30, 2005 (Alabama time), otherwise this offer is automatically withdrawn and of no further effect. Any further legal threats may be sent to my counsel, (My Attorney and his Firm are listed here). If you wish to resolve this matter in an amicable fashion (I would hope we all would) then let?s be neighbors and politely ask for dues instead of demanding them. Especially considering that some people did not receive proper notice or were at the meeting due to their schedule. Demanding payment of dues and threatening legal action without proper legal notice, could allow a Jefferson County Probate Judge to sanction the Serene Ridge HOA and prevent them from carrying out their duties, as well as allow threatened parties to recover damages. Since we?ve decided Registered Mail isn?t the proper way to communicate, I won?t bother mailing this Certified, but will instead send it in the manner in which I received my documents. You may contact me via telephone if deemed necessary.

Additionally, I am quite bothered by how the HOA has decided to turn this neighborhood from a friendly, caring, volunteering atmosphere, into a neighborhood in which people are given legal threats, as well as, highlighted segments from the Code of Alabama 1975. Such pretentious, self-serving rhetoric is not what enamored me to this community or this area of Jefferson County. Instead of worrying about the color of a house or the height of someone?s grass, perhaps we should be worried about how ?friendly? we are with each other or how we communicate. However, if the HOA wants to persist with such rhetoric and games, then I will be forced to act in kind especially considering the improper and illicit way in which the collection of dues were handled.

In short:
1) The tone of your letter runs counter to that of this neighborhood (liens and legal threats over 75.00 $ dues in which homeowner was not informed via proper procedure)
2) The process used to distribute the letter violated Covenant rules, Federal Laws (placing of private letters/documents on Federal Property without permission of Postmaster) and Local Laws. (Written notice requires receipt by individual to whom letter/documents were addressed and proof of such service)
2a) I?ve been given no information or documents proving that subsection B of the Homeowner?s Association segment of the Covenant was followed by the developer and the Homeowner?s Association.
2b) The process actually poses liability to the HOA.
2c) The process makes the fee/levy unenforceable.
2d) The process represents mismanagement of the HOA


I realize I might be responding in a petty fashion, but I feel the threat of a lien over Seventy-Five dollars in dues (of which I was not informed) is as equally petty.

I hope on reflection that you are prepared to settle this matter as I have proposed.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Kind Regards.

Yours Sincerely,


Evan C. Hyde
My Address
My Telephone Numbers


CC: My Attorney



 
Originally posted by: Citrix
Originally posted by: Mill
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
What are the dues for? Is this a normal monthly due or is this some type of special assessment?

Well, I just talked to some neighbors, and here's the gist of what went down while I was gone. Some people (just a few) got together and decided since the developer never formed the HOA that they would, and that they would enforce the Covenant via proxy through him. Not sure of the legality of that, but it doesn't exactly seem kosher to me. Basically, they decided to start collecting dues so that the front area near the subdivision sign could be cleaned up, and then a common park area could be cleaned.

Most of my neigbhors think it is total bullsh!t, because these people JUST moved in a few months ago, and things have always been fine around here. They've started calling the Sheriff on loose dogs and things of that nature, as well as saying that they want to modify the rules to prevent people from renting out their homes. Over my dead body will they modify ANYTHING to say that, and all my neighbors agree. I figure it is going to take some of getting together and starting a rebellion to quash the whole thing. This is the first time dues have ever been collected, and I think it is crap.


so you belong to a HOA as in signed a HOA contract when you bought your house but the devolopement has not collected the HOA fees?

HOA fees have never been collected, nor has the developer collected any fees. Hence my shock when receiving a notice that threatened a lien on my house over seventy-five dollars.
 
Originally posted by: Mill
June 28, 2005



?Serene Ridge Homeowner?s Association?


Thank you for your letter and documents dated June 20th, even though they were not delivered until June 27th. Being that I travel a great deal, I was unable to receive your letters regarding HOA?s fees, and/or meeting(s) from earlier this month (I was informed these were distributed around the neighborhood by other neighbors). I was in Mexico and Oklahoma, and had no way of retrieving mail or other items. Regardless of this, please do not threaten liens on homes of owners who were NOT given sufficient notice as to the HOA?s plan or their request of dues. Notes dropped in mailboxes, or on the doors of a home do not constitute the proper legal serving of a document, especially if you are trying to enforce under Article V which requires written notice. Registered Mail with return receipt would be the only proper way to inform all Homeowners ? given that not all are on their property 365 days a year ? and that the HOA has no way of verifying that documents were actually RECEIVED.

I am concerned, quite frankly, with legal threats being made against my property without adequate notice. Section B states unequivocally: ?An Appropriate Entity will be formed at a time to be determined by the DEVELOPER. Upon formation of said association, the Developer will convey title of common areas to the association.? Has this occurred yet? As I mentioned, I was out of town, and thus received no notice that the Developer had formed the HOA, the duties of the HOA, nor the schedule for collection of dues. Specifically, did the Developer convey the title of common areas yet, and was the Developer the one who set the time of the meeting? If not, then why wasn?t this procedure followed? I wasn?t at the meeting, nor was I privy to what exactly ?formed? the HOA, other than the notice I received the other day that threatened a lien against my property. I was informed, however, that there was discussion about preventing property owners from renting out their property. If this discussion took place, then I would like to see the meeting minutes relating to this discussion, and what was proposed. This gravely concerns me, as it would abridge my personal property rights if I chose to rent out my dwelling while on an extended absence.

If I were sent a communiqué in an amicable fashion, I would be more likely to respond with friendly words. Since the tone of your letter is threatening (liens), the dating is off by 7 days (which would abridge your sufficient notice clause), and I did not receive it until four days before you ?claim? you will sanction me, I am not currently prepared to pay my dues until this matter is discussed before the complete HOA as to how future collections will be handled and communications will be delivered.

I would have no problem paying my dues if given sufficient notice and explanation, but a note in my mailbox that is misdated with legal threats ? does not make me wish to make every effort to dispose of this matter amicably. If you proceed with filing a lien on my property on July 1st, then please realize that I will hold you (Serene Ridge HOA and those personally responsible) liable for any damage or loss I might incur as a result of any false statement that you may make, or for improperly following the Covenant of Serene Ridge, 1st Sector. My wish is not to be further embroiled in a dispute, so I would ask that you rescind your threats to all Homeowner?s who received these letters and documents, until you can verify by Registered US Mail that all Homeowners have been apprised of what you demand and your deadline for such demands. Anything less is a precarious legal breech of the Serene Ridge Covenant, and may entitle any property owner to recover damages if a lien is filed.

Please understand that my response is predicated solely on the manner in which this matter was handled, and not based on my acceptance of the Serene Ridge Covenant. If the Serene Ridge HOA seeks to use the Covenant as a legal means to collect dues, then it must be prepared to follow the rule of the law itself, and all the guidelines and rules of the State of Alabama, as well as fully complying with the terms of the Covenant. If you wish to rescind your threats of liens, then my dues will be paid no later than 24 hours after receiving such notice.

I require a response by Thursday, June 30, 2005 (Alabama time), otherwise this offer is automatically withdrawn and of no further effect. Any further legal threats may be sent to my counsel, (My Attorney and his Firm are listed here). If you wish to resolve this matter in an amicable fashion (I would hope we all would) then let?s be neighbors and politely ask for dues instead of demanding them. Especially considering that some people did not receive proper notice or were at the meeting due to their schedule. Demanding payment of dues and threatening legal action without proper legal notice, could allow a Jefferson County Probate Judge to sanction the Serene Ridge HOA and prevent them from carrying out their duties, as well as allow threatened parties to recover damages. Since we?ve decided Registered Mail isn?t the proper way to communicate, I won?t bother mailing this Certified, but will instead send it in the manner in which I received my documents. You may contact me via telephone if deemed necessary.

Additionally, I am quite bothered by how the HOA has decided to turn this neighborhood from a friendly, caring, volunteering atmosphere, into a neighborhood in which people are given legal threats, as well as, highlighted segments from the Code of Alabama 1975. Such pretentious, self-serving rhetoric is not what enamored me to this community or this area of Jefferson County. Instead of worrying about the color of a house or the height of someone?s grass, perhaps we should be worried about how ?friendly? we are with each other or how we communicate. However, if the HOA wants to persist with such rhetoric and games, then I will be forced to act in kind especially considering the improper and illicit way in which the collection of dues were handled.

In short:
1) The tone of your letter runs counter to that of this neighborhood (liens and legal threats over 75.00 $ dues in which homeowner was not informed via proper procedure)
2) The process used to distribute the letter violated Covenant rules, Federal Laws (placing of private letters/documents on Federal Property without permission of Postmaster) and Local Laws. (Written notice requires receipt by individual to whom letter/documents were addressed and proof of such service)
2a) I?ve been given no information or documents proving that subsection B of the Homeowner?s Association segment of the Covenant was followed by the developer and the Homeowner?s Association.
2b) The process actually poses liability to the HOA.
2c) The process makes the fee/levy unenforceable.
2d) The process represents mismanagement of the HOA


I realize I might be responding in a petty fashion, but I feel the threat of a lien over Seventy-Five dollars in dues (of which I was not informed) is as equally petty.

I hope on reflection that you are prepared to settle this matter as I have proposed.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Kind Regards.

Yours Sincerely,


Evan C. Hyde
My Address
My Telephone Numbers


CC: My Attorney

Its very well written, but the 1), 2), 2a) ...seem cheesy to me. Also, whats with all the parenthesis? I applaud you for sticking up to the HOA....but I think it might back fire. They will be out measuring your grass every f'ing day.
 
Let's hope that your neighbors don't feel like the community would be better served by a tennis court or quickie mart on your property.

Good luck.
 
Are you really expecting them to be able to respond to you in 1-2 days? You are going off on them beacuse they didn't give you enough notice and now you are telling them to get back to you by June 30th (which is tomorrow)? Kind of like the pot calling the kettle black...

But good luck. I would never move into an area that had a HOA for exactly reasons like this. Everything should have to be donw by vote with the majority or people agreeing etc. Can't just have a couple people that think they should decide how everything gets done. That's just stupid. Why don't you and your neighbors decide that you are going to run the HOA sinc eyou'v ebeen there longer and tlel these other people to F off?
 
Originally posted by: FrankyJunior
Are you really expecting them to be able to respond to you in 1-2 days? You are going off on them beacuse they didn't give you enough notice and now you are telling them to get back to you by June 30th (which is tomorrow)? Kind of like the pot calling the kettle black...

But good luck. I would never move into an area that had a HOA for exactly reasons like this. Everything should have to be donw by vote with the majority or people agreeing etc. Can't just have a couple people that think they should decide how everything gets done. That's just stupid. Why don't you and your neighbors decide that you are going to run the HOA sinc eyou'v ebeen there longer and tlel these other people to F off?

That's exactly the point of it. They gave me such short notice, so I'm doing the same.
 
So what exactly are you trying to accomplish with the letter? Are you looking for an apology? Does the .02 that the $75 will make in your savings acct over the next 30 days mean that much to you? You say you don't mind paying the money, yeah their letter took it a little too far but what constitutes a win for you at this point? The satisfaction of being a bigger ass? Take 3 minutes, write a check (nobody said you couldn't write 'the guy cashing this check likes little boys' on the memo line), walk it across the street and quit being a d1ck.
 
actually, why not include the check with the letter.

you get your point across, they can't hammer you for stuff anymore because you paid your dues.

and

you still get your point across.

win win?
 
> and not based on my acceptance of the Serene Ridge Covenant. If the Serene Ridge HOA

Mill, I'd suggest you not state this since their is now (if I read all of the thread right) a question if this HOA is even the legal 'HOA' for the community or a group of neighbors who have decided 'since there is no HOA, we will be it'.

I think you should ask for proof that they are actually the legal governing body for the association. I'd ask that, and only that in my message.

Bill

p.s. DMc STFU
 
Wait a second. You've lived in your neighborhood for years and the HOA has never collected dues?

edit: NM just got to the 2nd and third page where it was explained that this HOA board is newly formed.

Question: How was handling of neighborhood issues and upkeep of common areas handled prior to this new HOA board being formed.
 
Originally posted by: OrByte
actually, why not include the check with the letter.

you get your point across, they can't hammer you for stuff anymore because you paid your dues.

and

you still get your point across.

win win?
Normally, this would be the right thinking (to pay and contest, with right to demand a refund later if justified), but in this case Mill is contesting the right of this self-appointed HOA to collect fees in the first place. He should IMO consult his attorney as soon as possible, but based on what he's posted here, it sounds like he might have a case for it.
 
Originally posted by: Queasy
Wait a second. You've lived in your neighborhood for years and the HOA has never collected dues?
Based on what Mill is saying, it seems that an HOA has never even existed, but just (I assume) a provision in the developer's CC&R's for the possible creation of an HOA (which the developer never established). Now, it seems, some new homeowners have bought into the neighborhood and decided, without consent of the other homeowners or of the developer, that THEY will be that HOA, and have begun collecting fees to that effect. Not exactly a kosher practice.
 
Originally posted by: Vic
HOA's are the debbil. A system perfectly engineered by lawyers, developers, and realtors to screw homeowners with the homeowners' own money. I seriously believe that the tide is going to turn back on the HOA's soon, and homeowners are going to begin winning in court.

Like any form of governance, it really depends on who is running the HOA. The HOA for my neighborhood was crappy when we first moved in because the management company did a piss poor job. We went to self-managed and the efforts of the members of the board have really added to our neighborhood in the last year and a half. Unfortunately, they can't dedicate that kind of time continuously and are searching for a new management company.

 
Originally posted by: Baked
Shows you how cheap some people are. Way to make a fine example.
What does money or "cheap"-ness have to do with it? A minority group of his neighbors have formed (possibly under legally questionable circumstances) an ad-hoc HOA to rule over all the other neighbors. I know you're a socialist, and therefore enjoy the taste of the lash, but some of us are free peoples, and enjoy being such.
 
Originally posted by: Queasy
Like any form of governance, it really depends on who is running the HOA. The HOA for my neighborhood was crappy when we first moved in because the management company did a piss poor job. We went to self-managed and the efforts of the members of the board have really added to our neighborhood in the last year and a half. Unfortunately, they can't dedicate that kind of time continuously and are searching for a new management company.
Why even have one? My city prohibits HOA's (except for approved condos and PUD's, and then only those HOA's approved for and established by the developer) and it is for the most part clean and neat.
My own neighborhood, without an HOA, successfully beat some ridiculous city by-laws regarding street maintainence a couple of years ago, and then voluntarily pooled together our own funds to get our streets repaved. For an established neighborhood, houses are clean and well-maintained, the neighborhood is very desirable (a few homes lately have sold in 1 day), and values have never been higher.
Quite frankly, I see very little need for HOA's. Perhaps some condos and suburban neighborhoods where maintainence and insurance of common areas is required, but certainly not in a city neighborhood of single family residences, and definitely not to make sure that my neighbor mows his lawn twice a week (God forbid he take a vacation and forget to call the lawn service company) or that he doesn't hang the wrong color drapes. That sh!t is ridiculous, and I would never stand for it myself.
 
I will never buy a house that requires me to join a homeowner's association. I'd much rather live next to a guy who paints his house bright yellow and doesn't mow the lawn than a bunch of pretentious assholes who try to threaten me after I decide that I don't want to pay them to continue being assholes.
 
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Queasy
Like any form of governance, it really depends on who is running the HOA. The HOA for my neighborhood was crappy when we first moved in because the management company did a piss poor job. We went to self-managed and the efforts of the members of the board have really added to our neighborhood in the last year and a half. Unfortunately, they can't dedicate that kind of time continuously and are searching for a new management company.
Why even have one? My city prohibits HOA's (except for approved condos and PUD's, and then only those HOA's approved for and established by the developer) and it is for the most part clean and neat.
My own neighborhood, without an HOA, successfully beat some ridiculous city by-laws regarding street maintainence a couple of years ago, and then voluntarily pooled together our own funds to get our streets repaved. For an established neighborhood, houses are clean and well-maintained, the neighborhood is very desirable (a few homes lately have sold in 1 day), and values have never been higher.
Quite frankly, I see very little need for HOA's. Perhaps some condos and suburban neighborhoods where maintainence and insurance of common areas is required, but certainly not in a city neighborhood of single family residences, and definitely not to make sure that my neighbor mows his lawn twice a week (God forbid he take a vacation and forget to call the lawn service company) or that he doesn't hang the wrong color drapes. That sh!t is ridiculous, and I would never stand for it myself.

Agree but when you have common areas, pools, tennis courts, playground equipment, etc in your neighborhood it is good to have someone to take care of those for the neighborhood.

I think the HOA in my neighborhood is pretty much the antithesis of the stereotypical HOA. Unless you've painted your house something godawful, have 4ft+ weeds, constantly have cars taking up the street, or your house is falling apart from the outside they don't bother you.

I have a friend who built a small storage shed that matches the style and color of her house in her backyard where you can't even see from the road but had some HOA member come over to her house and start bitching at her demanding that she stop building the shed. This was the same HOA person who had a giant batting cage built in their backyard for everyone to see.

The above is what I mean when I say the people running the HOA really make the HOA. Not the entity of an HOA itself. Unfortunately, it always seems like it is the a-holes that end up running them.
 
Originally posted by: notfred
I will never buy a house that requires me to join a homeowner's association. I'd much rather live next to a guy who paints his house bright yellow and doesn't mow the lawn than a bunch of pretentious assholes who try to threaten me after I decide that I don't want to pay them to continue being assholes.

:thumbsup:
I figure the only way I have any business telling someone what color their house should be is if I am paying their mortgage.
 
Originally posted by: Linflas
Originally posted by: notfred
I will never buy a house that requires me to join a homeowner's association. I'd much rather live next to a guy who paints his house bright yellow and doesn't mow the lawn than a bunch of pretentious assholes who try to threaten me after I decide that I don't want to pay them to continue being assholes.
:thumbsup:
I figure the only way I have any business telling someone what color their house should be is if I am paying their mortgage.
:thumbsup:
 
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