Taken down because of insults and the FACT that people can't f_cking read.

[Engineer]

Locked Per OP's Request

Fern
Super Moderator

/thread

 

[thraashman]

The simple truth is that the rich aren't job creators, they're wealth consumers. The people who create jobs are the people who create demand. Trickle down hasn't ever worked, trickle up always does.

 

[Jaskalas]

Should this sort of sitting be illegal?

I assume sitting is another word for saving. Savings are apparently terrible.

 

[Engineer]

........

 

[GoPackGo]

If they don't want spend it then tax the hell out of it.

 

[Engineer]

........

 

[spidey07]

When you've had a president running around for almost 4 years demonizing them and saying how much he's going to punish them with his boot on their necks, why would anybody be surprised?

This is just natural behavior by capitalists, they are hoping to weather the obama nightmare. His end is almost here, so watch the economy get unleashed next year.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

It may be coincidence but yet again I'm seeing the largest customers for the company I work for delaying projects until "beginning of next year". yes, this happens every year but it seems like it plays out more-so during election years. Too much volatility and this year we have the fiscal cliff issue.

 

[kia75]

If business isn't going to give wages, hire people and invest, how do they expect growth in their business?

Investment doesn't grow business, untapped demand grows business. If I invest a million dollars in horse and buggies, hire a bunch of carpenters and pay them a bunch of money to make more buggies, I'm still not going to make much money in the Horse and buggy business. The demand for horse and buggies just isn't there no matter how much I invest.

We need to increase demand. If demand increases then companies will expand to meet the increased demand.

 

[Engineer]

........

 

[Fern]

Corps sitting on record cash - S&P 500 holding $1.5 TRILLION

Somebody has got to loan the federal govt money. These funds are not just buried in the ground, last I read +90% are sitting in bank accounts which make it's way back to fed securities.

Fern

 

[mshan]

Some of that cash may be overseas.

Alot of the reason for the hording is probably uncertainty (fiscal cliff in particular, and risk of gridlock in lame duck Congress producing quick, shallow recession early next year).

And some may be memories of 2008 (when credit froze up completely and companies could go out of business just because bank pulled back line of credit they depended upon for day to day operations).

Morningstar economist Bob Johnson made an observation about how companies may have gotten too conservative in terms of their workforce in August, and had to scramble when they realized things didn't end up being as bad as they feared in September.

Same may end up being true here.

Maybe they are letting inventories run very low, but if armageddon doesn't happen (in particular, if U. S. consumer continues to spend, despite what happens internationally and even to stock price of multi-nationals), hopefully companies end up behind the 8 ball and have to play catch up a few months down the road.

Key is not having en masse layoffs of domestic American workers (i. e. those with full time jobs and comfortable that they are not going to lose job soon) because domestic markets and consumer demand collapses for whatever reason...

 

[Londo_Jowo]

It may be coincidence but yet again I'm seeing the largest customers for the company I work for delaying projects until "beginning of next year". yes, this happens every year but it seems like it plays out more-so during election years. Too much volatility and this year we have the fiscal cliff issue.

Most of the refineries are putting off maintenance, upgrades, and new project off until next year as well.

I think the corps have seen the government throw big money at the problem several times over the past 4 years to no avail and can't see how the rewards outweigh the risks at this time.

 

[bfdd]

lol @ "saving money is part of the problem" seriously? Maybe it's not part of the problem, maybe your understanding of how things work is the problem. Saving is a good thing, it's called thinking about the fucking future.

 

[child of wonder]

It may be coincidence but yet again I'm seeing the largest customers for the company I work for delaying projects until "beginning of next year". yes, this happens every year but it seems like it plays out more-so during election years. Too much volatility and this year we have the fiscal cliff issue.

Same. It affected our 3rd quarter numbers because we're seeing customers push back projects until late Q4 or Q1 2013.

 

[Michael]

Corporations "sit" on cash because they don't see opportunities to invest that will result in higher earnings/cash flow. It is a good indicator of their feelings on the economy and prospects in the near future.

Eventually, that money gets spent. Sometimes on dividends and stock buybacks. With dividend taxes and capital gains taxes being an issue in the current election, there is less pressure on corporations to increase dividends.

I would say that the anti-business policies of the current President would also influence this as they may feel they need a bigger cushion for the next 4 years. However, you could also make an equal argument that no one really knows what Mitt Romney may do if he wins, which is also a reason to hold back more cash.

Any election-based decision will be short term. If this continues to grow after the "fiscal cliff" is behind us, then it is even more an indication of their feeling that prospects are too poor to invest.

Michael

 

[Howard]

lol @ "saving money is part of the problem" seriously? Maybe it's not part of the problem, maybe your understanding of how things work is the problem. Saving is a good thing, it's called thinking about the fucking future.

Didn't Japan have an economic slowdown because there was not enough investment?

 

[bfdd]

Didn't Japan have an economic slowdown because there was not enough investment?

Are you talking about the "lost decade"? That had more to do with unscrupulous Government spending and basically all the shit you see going on here with people moving from political office to the private sector and making millions then back and forth was going on there and still is. We're kind of following in the Japanese footsteps right now. Not really a whole lot to do with private sector saving, that just means there's nothing of value to invest in. Why should the private sector invest if there's no value in it? Derp a der, only Governments do that to pick and choose winners because assholes just can't let things go with the flow if it disagrees with their world perspective.

 

[blackangst1]

If only a small fraction of families followed this example...

 

[spidey07]

If only a small fraction of families followed this example...

Savings are actually way up thanks to Obama. Americans and their families are saving as much as they can to weather the obama nightmare. Americans are holding onto their wallet, weathering this nightmare that will soon be over.

 

[dmcowen674]

Most of the refineries are putting off maintenance, upgrades, and new project off until next year as well.

To which they should be held criminally liable.

Start putting the thugs in jail when their lack of proper maintenance cause the next fire and excuse for skyrocketing prices despite the fact gasoline os the number one export of the United States then watch how fast proper maintenance is done.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

To which they should be held criminally liable.

Start putting the thugs in jail when their lack of proper maintenance cause the next fire and excuse for skyrocketing prices despite the fact gasoline os the number one export of the United States then watch how fast proper maintenance is done.

This is where your ignorance shines through, the vast majority of refinery fires and accidents are due to operator or contract employee errors and not due to equipment failure. The refineries have predictive maintenance monitoring software/systems that inform them of any potential issue with machinery. In most cases the refineries are overhauling equipment/machinery well before the OEM's recommended schedule.

 

[SagaLore]

Seems also that investor are getting riled up over the fact that so much cash is being built up and not invested or given back in dividends.

I responded with some ideas about the wealthiest people before, but it may also apply to corporations:

The only way this is going to be solved is to use a combination of flat taxes and caps.

Income tax, 10% across the board, income cap at 1mil per year.

Property tax, 10% across the board, property cap at 100mil total assets. Anything over is taxed 100% value.

Sales tax, 10% across the board.


So then you're taxing earnings, ownership, and purchases. Those who have a lot, pay the most, those who have little, pay almost nothing.

I think this is where the problem is between the 2 parties.

We keep fighting about the wrong problem. One side says the rich doesn't pay enough, because they're rich, and even if they pay a lot, the rich is still rich and the poor is still poor. So they should pay even more to balance that out. The other side says the rich earned their wealth, they are already paying the most, if they keep having to pay more then they lose their incentive to be rich in this country and they will go elsewhere, leaving the poor to fend for themselves.

Sure both sides are valid. Its a conundrum.

So we just keep fighting by looking at the problem the same way, arguing over the exact same solutions over and over until we get nowhere.

So think outside the box. What else could we do that solves this?


I think the rich should have their incentive to become and stay rich. They succeed, they develop a standard of living, they are rewarded for their hard and strategic efforts. I think the poor need help. They just can't dig themselves out of it. Their education is lacking, there isn't much opportunity, they're stuck.

Let the less than rich want to get rich. Let them be rich. But don't let them HOARD the wealth. That's the problem. Once their wealth reaches that magnitude, its like a black hole, sucking in more wealth. In a company they could be making millions of dollars just in income, while the average staff member is making hardly anything. Then, as they have far surpassed what they need to maintain their standard of living, the wealth is tied up in various ways. We need that to be limited so they are forced to keep the wealth moving in the market. If we reduce the span between first quartile and third quartile of average wealth, I think everyone in general will be happier, still get their fair share, and keep the economy and government in a healthy state.

You have to do something to stop the hoarding.

For corporations, instead of just taxing "property" at 10%, you can tax total assets including cash. So it is in their best interest to turn that cash into something useful or it just erodes.

 

[piasabird]

People with money only invest in things that will bring a return on investment (ROI) Sale of goods is not very good, demand is low and people are limiting their purchases to necessities. Then even all the big corps are having lower than forecast earnings. Prices keep going up. Food is high, gas is high and prices on everything keeps increasing. I think it is to the point that there is no profit from putting it in a bank account or even in purchasing govt backed bonds. They dont even trust govt bonds anymore.

Then there is another big whammie coming up. Increased costs from the Health care bill and a threat of the Bush Tax Cuts are looming on the horizon. It is the White House and the policies of President O'Bamma and the democrats that are causing all of this. Bernanke is literally printing money to do easing by buying up government debt. This is all insanity of this country's failed economic policy. No one knows what will happen before the end of year and the threat of inflation is on the wind. Everytime this country borrows another $trillion the value of USA $$$ Decreases.

The economic picture is gloom and doom right now.

Better talk to the evil terrorist loving president if you dont like his policies.

 

[rchiu]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/companies-sitting-more-cash-ever-182240351.html

Seems like the fiscal cliff is the biggest blame. Seems also that investor are getting riled up over the fact that so much cash is being built up and not invested or given back in dividends.

If business isn't going to give wages, hire people and invest, how do they expect growth in their business?

It's a vicious cycle.

Why should business hire people and invest? They gotta pay more health care premium under obama health care, they face uncertain economy with big risk to their investment, and if they are lucky enough to make some money, obama is gonna tax the heck out of it and the society bash those rich business owners/stock holders the evil 1%'er.