Take the job offer or no?

[IndyColtsFan]

Aww. The timing is bad here. Do you know when the next recruiting class starts? If it's in like six months, could you defer your start date til then. Go on your trip then continue to work at your current place til the next round starts?

This. Find out if you can join the next recruiting class.

Also, AT&T is the devil and I intentionally pay more money to avoid their services. That's a different thread, though.

 

[Imp]

Development is a different thing.

OP, as a 51 year-old, I can tell you that at 25 I would have taken the trip, no questions. In fact I did, but that's another story. Unless you have obligations to people (which you will have plenty of later on in your life), go do what makes you happy. You won't ever regret it. There will be other jobs, but probably very few opportunities to have the experience of a lifetime with a group of close friends who will all shortly be heading off in different directions. Live now, you'll be working plenty later .

True-ish... but sacrifice a trip now and you'll have more money and an easier time later in the case of the OP. The plane flies out to wherever he's going a few times a day. Doubt you can say that about having a job offered by a big company.

On the other hand, the job may be a turd and you may hate it and/or get fired... Then you'll wish you stayed at current job and went on trip.

 

[patrick409]

Is the trip all or nothing? I.e if you talk to the manager/starting manager maybe you can negotiate where you only take a 2 week trip instead of 4 weeks? That way you get to join your friends for at least part of the trip.

Personally I think these huge multi week trips are an experience of a lifetime and worth taking. At 25, you're not gonna have that many more opportunities to do this with your friends. In a coupla years everyone is going to be focused on careers/families/whatever and it will get increasingly difficult to plan something like this.

 

[rcpratt]

You're basically going from "real" IT to a phone jockey position. The 10% bonus insinuates that you will have to sell something or have some measurable performance metric, in other words..... You will just be a number.

I'm not really sure how you're inferring that. Many entry-level positions across varying professions have fairly standard 5-15% bonuses based on, yes, obviously, performance. How that performance is determined could be based on any number of things. I get a bonus...I don't sell anything, nor can my performance be measured in any kind of meaningful metric.

 

[rcpratt]

IMO a base salary of 60k is okay for a 22 year old. A good salary for a 22 yr old is 90k base. And for a 25k year at least 100-120k base.

Give me a break. Even for a student that graduated from a decent college in a decent technical profession, $90k would easily put you in the top 1% at 22. And even then, students that graduate from a decent college in a decent technical profession are the vast minority in the first place.

Enjoy living in la-la land.

 

[Krazy4Real]

can you just do a 2 week trip or something instead? You might be able to get that approved. Just go home early while your friends stay another two weeks after you leave?

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

So you have to make more than that at that age to be good ? Everyone I went to school with got jobs making 40k or so like op and we all graduated in IT. I went the development route and was the first one to get a job starting at 60-65.

So considering we all graduated from the same crap and all the friends are making less I consider it good.

Where did I say that?
I'm just asking where the op lives. I trust he knows what is considered a good salary for his area.
Just like I know $60k won't go very far in nyc at any age unless I'm living with my parents or 3 in a 1 bed apt.

 

[sze5003]

Yeah some place like nyc and La that is not the standard. No offense it came off as well at this age people should have this much.

 

[zCypher]

If there is zero flexibility now, seems like that's likely to repeat itself when you need flexibility in the future. I know that when they are hiring is when they are hiring, and only so much leeway to be had, but there are almost always more than one training class in big companies like that (I know, I work for one). You're young, you're just finishing your degree, you are building relevant experience. I see no reason why you should not be able to get a better job later. $60k is nice, but you have to remember that a lot of that extra $10-12k is probably going to be gobbled up by taxes too.

I would advise taking the trip.

 

[CraigRT]

IMO a base salary of 60k is okay for a 22 year old. A good salary for a 22 yr old is 90k base. And for a 25k year at least 100-120k base.

Where the hell do you live?
I don't think I've ever known a single person at 22 who made 60 grand a year...

 

[a1strank]

Is the trip all or nothing? I.e if you talk to the manager/starting manager maybe you can negotiate where you only take a 2 week trip instead of 4 weeks? That way you get to join your friends for at least part of the trip.

Personally I think these huge multi week trips are an experience of a lifetime and worth taking. At 25, you're not gonna have that many more opportunities to do this with your friends. In a coupla years everyone is going to be focused on careers/families/whatever and it will get increasingly difficult to plan something like this.

Tried that already and it is either all or nothing. I might just take it and see if I can work around it and if not...I'll just give up that ticket then whatever! I don't know..I might be applying more jobs in the next few weeks to see what else is out there..

 

[a1strank]

If there is zero flexibility now, seems like that's likely to repeat itself when you need flexibility in the future. I know that when they are hiring is when they are hiring, and only so much leeway to be had, but there are almost always more than one training class in big companies like that (I know, I work for one). You're young, you're just finishing your degree, you are building relevant experience. I see no reason why you should not be able to get a better job later. $60k is nice, but you have to remember that a lot of that extra $10-12k is probably going to be gobbled up by taxes too.

I would advise taking the trip.

When I spoke with the manager he was not aware of the "everyone recruited from this program must start on same date and must not take any leaves within xxx weeks of employment". Apparently this was new to him too and not really his fault.

 

[a1strank]

This. Find out if you can join the next recruiting class.

Also, AT&T is the devil and I intentionally pay more money to avoid their services. That's a different thread, though.

Pretty sure I can still apply for that program when summer comes but it does not guarantee any position and I wouldn't know where I would end up to. Pretty much gotta do this whole interviewing process again.

 

[MChao1]

Just to add my 2 cents.

I say decline the offer and go on the trip with your friends. You and your friends will most likely not have this opportunity again. Everyone will start working and then it will be near impossible to match up everyone's work schedule to take a vacation all at the same time.

OP said there is little learning/no growth, have you talked to your manager about it?

 

[Udgnim]

take the offer

it's a potentially life changing decision that will set up your career

 

[sze5003]

Where the hell do you live?
I don't think I've ever known a single person at 22 who made 60 grand a year...

It's rare but it happens. My first dev job out of college was 65k plus benefits but that was for the dept of education ...before it went down the toilet and now I'm doing something of the same type of development for a new company making a little less.

Hell Boeing offered me 55 starting and I said no because of student loans I couldn't accept it.

 

[iamwiz82]

I'd take the trip over a job with AT&T any day. You will not receive that much experience from such a bloated, floundering company.

 

[patrick409]

Tried that already and it is either all or nothing. I might just take it and see if I can work around it and if not...I'll just give up that ticket then whatever! I don't know..I might be applying more jobs in the next few weeks to see what else is out there..

Hmm in that case I think you should talk to the hiring manager and see if he'll allow you to start with your class in Jan, but take the 4 weeks off anyways. Otherwise I will vote for declining the job and taking the trip for the following reasons.

1) You like your current job. They like you.
2) Sounds like a trip of a lifetime. You will regret not taking it.
3) Since you will officially have your degree soon, you might be able to negotiate a bigger raise at your current job based on your new credentials. It probably wont become 60k, but it might narrow the starting gap.
4) At this point in your life that salary differntial isn't a huge deal. You seem like a pretty smart/hardworking guy, and there will always be jobs for quality people.
4) My friends who work for ATT don't think very highly of the company. Your potential manager sounds like a good one though.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

Complicated -

Either Decline the offer or force AT&T to give you the time off as a condition of employment.

1-month with buddies in Europe sounds epic and you will forever hate yourself tor missing this opportunity. What happens when people get over 25 is they get married, have kids, move away and you never see them again. This will be the last big together.


If AT&T wants you that bad - then they will be flexible. Trust me, its hard work finding a good candidate, they should be flexible.

With your degree here in a month, renegotiate your current salary, or look for work. If AT&T wants you, others will too.

 

[Blueychan]

I swear, some of you guys must've pull the salary number out of your asses. Wake up in live in the real world.

 

[aaksheytalwar]

IMO I am only talking of people who have a BS in CS from a top 20-50 US university.

And IMO of them, good means top 5% of the batch.

And such people easily get 75-100k base at 22/23.

IMO okay means 60-75th percentile from a batch of a top 50-100 university.

And I am assuming a major city like NYC, Washingston, SF etc.

And again, only talking of engg or bs in computer science.

 

[sze5003]

Yeah it can happen but it's not the norm at least not in this economy plus depends where you live. I do everything a cs major can do and even more but that doesn't mean a company will pay me that base. Almost every company I interviewed with in the beginning was looking for experience more than degree. I know buddies without a degree making about 50k doing development. They got the job by showcasing their skills.

 

[aaksheytalwar]

I am talking of people who are from an ivy or NYU level degree in cs engg. Not mere skills but degrees with above avg profiles. They are still in 1000s.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Complicated -

Either Decline the offer or force AT&T to give you the time off as a condition of employment.

1-month with buddies in Europe sounds epic and you will forever hate yourself tor missing this opportunity. What happens when people get over 25 is they get married, have kids, move away and you never see them again. This will be the last big together.


If AT&T wants you that bad - then they will be flexible. Trust me, its hard work finding a good candidate, they should be flexible.

With your degree here in a month, renegotiate your current salary, or look for work. If AT&T wants you, others will too.

Yes, your friends will get married, move away, and you never see them again; but if he doesn't take this job his career could stall then his future wife will leave him and he'll never see half his money or his kids again.

Take the job, don't be a moron. Your "friends" aren't going to pay you $60k, EVER.

 

[iamwiz82]

IMO I am only talking of people who have a BS in CS from a top 20-50 US university.

And IMO of them, good means top 5% of the batch.

And such people easily get 75-100k base at 22/23.

IMO okay means 60-75th percentile from a batch of a top 50-100 university.

And I am assuming a major city like NYC, Washingston, SF etc.

And again, only talking of engg or bs in computer science.

$75-100k in NYC (Brooklyn) is $39-45K in most of the US. $75-100k in SF is around $50ish in most of the US. It's really not that much when you are talking about a place that has such obscene CoL.