T-REX Soft tissue found

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Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
Originally posted by: VicSo... if humans re-introduce T-rex's, we will have to become their predators in order to control them, or else T-rex's (like all other forms of life) will reproduce and spread as far as they can. And I have this feeling that T-rex's and humans won't get along too well.
Well, as you note, it works well with deer (and bears) why not something bigger? You seem to assume we couldn't control it like other species.

Why would we allow them to reproduce to that point anyways? Come on, just put them one an isle and modify their genes so only there are only females. Surely they are easier to control. ;)
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: Eli
Originally posted by: Nik
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
How is it possible that the tissues were not lost or petrified after millions of years?
Because the whole idea of "millions" of years is a falicy, but that's a whole nother conversation. :)
Oh my dear fscking lord.

How can you sleep at night thinking that the universe or even that rock over there is only a couple thousand years old?

It makes my head hurt. There are trees that are alive and over 4,000 years old.

Gah!

lol
As I've seen this same mistake twice in the last 2 days (by 2 different posters)... to clarify a misunderstanding, Creationists believe that the world is at least 6,000 years old. Not 2,000 (how would that make sense when Christ was have lived 2,000 years ago and there's the entire Old Testament before Him?).
And the 6,000 years is only the time since Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden of Eve, so there could have been a nearly unlimited time before then.
I personally don't believe either way (preferring to stick with things I know rather than other peoples' guesses), but I just thought I'd clear this up.


As for why I think cloning T-rex's would be a bad idea... well, IMO people have very large misconceptions about humans and nature. The "Disney" myth, I call it. The belief that animals and nature are good and humans are bad (the corollary of this being that people think that humans are not part of nature, which is a ridiculous belief to have, especially for people who claim to believe in evolution). A geat example I can think of right now on this topic is from the first Matrix movie. Agent Smith tells Morpheus that he thinks that humans are more like viruses than mammals because only humans reproduce and spread until all their resources are consumed, and other mammals don't as they seek a "harmony" in nature. That's complete bullsh!t. Unless contained by predators, ALL animals reproduce and spread until all their resources are consumed. Dr. Malthus proved this 200+ years ago. Uncontained by predators and/or hunters, deer will reproduce until they've eaten all their grass and then they'll die of starvation, which is why limited deer hunting is actually good for the deer population.
So... if humans re-introduce T-rex's, we will have to become their predators in order to control them, or else T-rex's (like all other forms of life) will reproduce and spread as far as they can. And I have this feeling that T-rex's and humans won't get along too well.
Yeah, I know it wasn't only 2,000 years.. but even 6,000 years is insignificant in the scheme of.. time.

As for the t-rex thing.. LOL. I dunno.

I kinda go both ways. Obviously, we wouldn't be able to let Jurassic Park happen.... but we are curious beings, and I don't know if we'll pass up the chance to bring back to life something that went extinct 70 million years ago.. assuming there's DNA, etc, etc. It would just be too amazing.

We should start with things that have gone extinct recently, though. Anybody got any DoDo feathers laying around? :D

As for the Matrix analogy.. I guess you are right.. But still, somehow the way he says it makes sense.

I guess the real reason, is because we have no real natural predators. That, coupled with our extreme intelligence, allows us to dominate everything....
 

OulOat

Diamond Member
Aug 8, 2002
5,769
0
0
Originally posted by: Phoenix86
Originally posted by: VicSo... if humans re-introduce T-rex's, we will have to become their predators in order to control them, or else T-rex's (like all other forms of life) will reproduce and spread as far as they can. And I have this feeling that T-rex's and humans won't get along too well.
Well, as you note, it works well with deer (and bears) why not something bigger? You seem to assume we couldn't control it like other species.

Why would we allow them to reproduce to that point anyways? Come on, just put them one an isle and modify their genes so only there are only females. Surely they are easier to control. ;)

Just need to remember not to use frog DNA...
 

Schadenfroh

Elite Member
Mar 8, 2003
38,416
4
0
Originally posted by: Orsorum
Originally posted by: Nik
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
How is it possible that the tissues were not lost or petrified after millions of years?

Because the whole idea of "millions" of years is a falicy, but that's a whole nother conversation. :)

Elaborate, please.

nik is trolling
 

psiu

Golden Member
Oct 1, 2003
1,629
1
0
Originally posted by: EpsiIon
Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Wow, and they can charge anything they want: two thousand a day, ten thousand a day, and people will pay it. And then there's the merchandise... oh wait...

Here, take the ethics quiz on this subject ;)
I got 10/10 without reading the article :)

Easy quiz. :) Silly questions. "The lawyer and Hammond?" Why not just tell us what the answer is? His name, btw, in Genaro.


:( 4/8 for me
 

NikPreviousAcct

No Lifer
Aug 15, 2000
52,763
1
0
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Originally posted by: Orsorum
Originally posted by: Nik
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
How is it possible that the tissues were not lost or petrified after millions of years?

Because the whole idea of "millions" of years is a falicy, but that's a whole nother conversation. :)

Elaborate, please.

nik is trolling

I am hardly trolling; I'm simply answering the question from my point of view. The reason I simply left it at that instead of elaborating was to avoid a flame war.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,587
10,225
126
Originally posted by: Vic
So... if humans re-introduce T-rex's, we will have to become their predators in order to control them, or else T-rex's (like all other forms of life) will reproduce and spread as far as they can. And I have this feeling that T-rex's and humans won't get along too well.

Yeah, but think of how much fun T-Rex "hunting season" will be! They might even make "high powered assault rifles"/"automatic rifles", heck, .50-cal machine guns, completely legal, if only to be used to hunt T-Rexes in the wild.

(Just imagine an animal-control officer, faced with one of these "monsters", in suburbia.. that would make an interesting "America's Funniest Home Video" indeed.)
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
I do have to admit, though, Nik brings up an interesting point.

Whether or not millions of years "exist"...

Is it possible that this bone is in fact not 70 million years old?

Maybe we're looking at it backwards. It's much easier to look at it like this, than it would be to completely rewrite all the science text books and say that we've possibly found a T-Rex bone that's only a few tens of thousands of years old or something.

Pretty interesting.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
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well from the way they describe how its like disolving a chicken bone in vinegar.. i don't think its the "soft" tissue many epopel are thinking of. Schweitzer said that after removing the minerals from the specimen, the remaining tissues were soft and transparent and could be manipulated with instruments.

She likened the process to placing a chicken bone in vinegar. The minerals will dissolve, leaving the soft tissues.



Brooks Hanson, a deputy editor of Science, noted that there are few examples of soft tissues, except for leaves or petrified wood, that are preserved as fossils, just as there are few discoveries of insects in amber or humans and mammoths in peat or ice.

Soft tissues are rare in older finds. "That's why in a 70-million-year-old fossil it is so interesting," he said.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/03/24/rex.tissue.ap/index.html
so its not like its totally inconsistent.


as for dna. mamoth dna is pretty fux0red and its not that old. u don't have to really worry about trex clones
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
Originally posted by: SeminoleMarine
I did not read the whole thing, but I got this off of another forum. The poster seems to think it is a hoax.


>>>http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/dinosaur/blood.html

Methinks MSNBC has been had.

Unless, of course, Prof. Schweitzer has found another amazingly well-preserved T. Rex.<<<
Huh?

Doesen't the article you linked to prove that it's real.. since Mary Schweitzer is a real person, etc etc?

I'll assume that this is a new discovery.. a new bone.. not something from 1997, lol.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
well from the way they describe how its like disolving a chicken bone in vinegar.. i don't think its the "soft" tissue many epopel are thinking of. Schweitzer said that after removing the minerals from the specimen, the remaining tissues were soft and transparent and could be manipulated with instruments.

She likened the process to placing a chicken bone in vinegar. The minerals will dissolve, leaving the soft tissues.



Brooks Hanson, a deputy editor of Science, noted that there are few examples of soft tissues, except for leaves or petrified wood, that are preserved as fossils, just as there are few discoveries of insects in amber or humans and mammoths in peat or ice.

Soft tissues are rare in older finds. "That's why in a 70-million-year-old fossil it is so interesting," he said.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/03/24/rex.tissue.ap/index.html
so its not like its totally inconsistent.


as for dna. mamoth dna is pretty fux0red and its not that old. u don't have to really worry about trex clones
Links? How is that going anyway? I kinda forgot about that project...

 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,587
10,225
126
I wonder if the "big oil" companies are getting interested in this, and in dino cloning. Just think, perhaps in the future, in order to have a sustainable supply of oil, we will have "dino farms", much like "tree farms" (for reforestation projects). The dinos would be raised to a certain size, and then thrown into a tarpit, to flail around and eventually suffocate and die (PETA would be all over this, of course), and eventually the dinos in that one spot would build up, and the oil companies would start another "tar pit", and then after a few hundred (thousand??) years had passed, go back and pump out the oil. Profit! :p
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,419
8
81
Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
I wonder if the "big oil" companies are getting interested in this, and in dino cloning. Just think, perhaps in the future, in order to have a sustainable supply of oil, we will have "dino farms", much like "tree farms" (for reforestation projects). The dinos would be raised to a certain size, and then thrown into a tarpit, to flail around and eventually suffocate and die (PETA would be all over this, of course), and eventually the dinos in that one spot would build up, and the oil companies would start another "tar pit", and then after a few hundred (thousand??) years had passed, go back and pump out the oil. Profit! :p
More like a couple hundred thousand (millions?).
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,982
11
81
Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
I wonder if the "big oil" companies are getting interested in this, and in dino cloning. Just think, perhaps in the future, in order to have a sustainable supply of oil, we will have "dino farms", much like "tree farms" (for reforestation projects). The dinos would be raised to a certain size, and then thrown into a tarpit, to flail around and eventually suffocate and die (PETA would be all over this, of course), and eventually the dinos in that one spot would build up, and the oil companies would start another "tar pit", and then after a few hundred (thousand??) years had passed, go back and pump out the oil. Profit! :p
I think you can make oil with pretty much any organic stuff.
 

So

Lifer
Jul 2, 2001
25,923
17
81
Originally posted by: Howard
Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
I wonder if the "big oil" companies are getting interested in this, and in dino cloning. Just think, perhaps in the future, in order to have a sustainable supply of oil, we will have "dino farms", much like "tree farms" (for reforestation projects). The dinos would be raised to a certain size, and then thrown into a tarpit, to flail around and eventually suffocate and die (PETA would be all over this, of course), and eventually the dinos in that one spot would build up, and the oil companies would start another "tar pit", and then after a few hundred (thousand??) years had passed, go back and pump out the oil. Profit! :p
I think you can make oil with pretty much any organic stuff.

See: Turkey Guts
 

Analog

Lifer
Jan 7, 2002
12,755
3
0
Originally posted by: Orsorum
Originally posted by: Nik
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
How is it possible that the tissues were not lost or petrified after millions of years?

Because the whole idea of "millions" of years is a falicy, but that's a whole nother conversation. :)

Elaborate, please.


Monkey trial == the world is 6000 years old.
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
4
81
Originally posted by: Excelsior
"North Carolina State University" GO STATE!

And just the other day they posted an article where IMAX was not going to show a movie because it might offend some bible thumpers in the South...

How's dem bones?
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,587
10,225
126
Originally posted by: Thurgo0dy
I'd love if we cloned them.....just imagine what BBQ would be like...

There was an espisode of 'Northern Exposure' that covered that, except it was a frozen preserved Wolly Mammoth that got turned into steaks. :)
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,461
4
81
Originally posted by: VirtualLarry
Originally posted by: Thurgo0dy
I'd love if we cloned them.....just imagine what BBQ would be like...

There was an espisode of 'Northern Exposure' that covered that, except it was a frozen preserved Wolly Mammoth that got turned into steaks. :)

I'd like to try that too