T - 30 Hours until the world ends

[dank69]

And you don't believe that it isn't already pegged on both groups as bad behavior?

I mean legit, some of the things Republicans wanted should really be done. Such as the 1 year to implement obamacare. Nothing against the law, I could care less about it now. However, this is like putting out a new MMO game with no Alpha or Beta. There will be issues, bugs, and other problems no one saw coming, we should use 1 year and bring in just a few people at a time and check for issues or problems.

Yet this measure was one democrats refused to budge on to begin with. Then all hell broke loose when both sides decided "my way or the highway" and now this wont even be mentioned as most republicans have given up on that extra year to bring out O-care, and are trying to get what they can out of this. It is childish, and stupid from both sides perspectives.

This is just one big game of political chicken to see who will be the first to blink at this point.

No. I don't agree. Not even a tiny little bit. The time for negotiation on Obamacare has long since passed. They had the chance to work with Dems to make it into anything they wanted but they preferred to take the "I don't want it at all and nothing you do will change my mind" approach. It failed. Tough shit for Republicans. They took it all the way to the SC and got slapped by their own appointee.

All the shit you see about the website being a failure is FUD. It will get worked out. All the shit you see about how the ACA will be a disaster is FUD. Let the thing roll out and judge it on how things actually turn out, not on how people claim it will work out. Most of the projections of failure are based on things the law doesn't even do.

Republicans don't get to extract a ransom for doing their job.

 

[AViking]

Yeah all this talk about needing a year seems to be propaganda. From where I'm sitting that demand seemed to be about the Republicans wanting to keep all the young and healthy people out so that all the sick and unhealthy would cost the government a ton of money and they could point at Obamacare and say "See it doesn't work!". It was political maneuvering and not based on any real need.

 

[Doppel]

What do you mean nothing will happen?

We will go through Oct. 17th with no deal. Aliens will invade the 19th, seeing the world weaker because one of its top countries couldn't pay a debt. November 3rd, after the resistance has scared off the aliens to go for reinforcements,(only after 50% of earth's population has been killed) God will come down and reflood the earth for a few months. Now because we are much more advanced than those biblical people, we will have most survive via ships and intelligence.

This will cause God to throw a 1/3 earth monster sized Asteroid at the planet to destroy it as punishment for avoiding his punishment for failing to pay a silly debt. However, SURPRISE we have Superman. He will just punch it into millions of tiny pieces and as they enter the atmosphere, turn into skittles, so we, as a people can taste the rainbow.

That is what will happen if nothing happens. We will taste the rainbow.

nice.

GOP will fold because they are losing public support fast and have no peerage of any kind.

 

[diesbudt]

No. I don't agree. Not even a tiny little bit. The time for negotiation on Obamacare has long since passed. They had the chance to work with Dems to make it into anything they wanted but they preferred to take the "I don't want it at all and nothing you do will change my mind" approach. It failed. Tough shit for Republicans. They took it all the way to the SC and got slapped by their own appointee.

All the shit you see about the website being a failure is FUD. It will get worked out. All the shit you see about how the ACA will be a disaster is FUD. Let the thing roll out and judge it on how things actually turn out, not on how people claim it will work out. Most of the projections of failure are based on things the law doesn't even do.

Republicans don't get to extract a ransom for doing their job.

I am not talking about the website... I am talking about the program itself. Doctors and medical centers accepting it, and how the insurance has to go through a government median when purchased off of the website. We have no proof this will work the way people expect, or kinks won't happen with "surprise" charges people won't see coming. Or ways people can get around paying their medical bill through obamacare, thus putting more money required from the people. We know NOTHING on how this will work, we just believe we know. And being a scientist it is a well known fact. On paper never equals reality.

Your thinking is flawed though. It is not a ransom. Both sides of the government have to agree. That is how our government was planned to work since we re-wrote the articles of confederation into what we have now. It isn't up to just 1 side to give in. It is up to both sides to sit down, discuss, and if they really want to continue being "2 separate political party entities" each give up something in return until the people of America realize we need more than 2 parties, and maybe even abolish party tags and just have each politician be a separate entity.

 

[diesbudt]

nice.

GOP will fold because they are losing public support fast and have no peerage of any kind.

Actually people blame Obama as much as the GoP in the house. The democratic Senate is the only section not getting fingers pointed at.

I could see 2016 = Republican president, but a democratic held house and senate if nothing happens after the "so called" Bad day tomorrow.

Not because it makes sense (it doesn't) but the average American voter doesn't debate issues like we nerds do on here. They do not go out and argue. They stand by their party, and they see whatever the media feeds them, and that somehow the president is always the one at fault.

Hell, somehow enough people blamed Bush for 9/11. Like he actually flew the damn plane himself into the building. People be crazy man. PEOPLE BE CRAZY.

 

[AViking]

Your thinking is flawed though. It is not a ransom. Both sides of the government have to agree. That is how our government was planned to work since we re-wrote the articles of confederation into what we have now. It isn't up to just 1 side to give in. It is up to both sides to sit down, discuss, and if they really want to continue being "2 separate political party entities" each give up something in return until the people of America realize we need more than 2 parties, and maybe even abolish party tags and just have each politician be a separate entity.

I sort of agree but then I don't. Both parties do not need to agree. What does need to happen though is that both chambers of Congress need to be able to come to an agreement so that they can pass bills that the executive branch will then sign into law. Its a subtle difference but worth pointing out. As it is right now we have this R vs D thing going on which is then extending into a House vs Senate vs White House. That's only good as long as they can actually get to a point where they can pass bills and make new laws. Republicans went full retard by trying to demand compromise when they had nothing to offer in return besides burning the building down.

We saw it go pretty far recently when they changed the House rules to not let a clean bill get an up or down vote despite it having the votes to pass That's going pretty far. Obstructionism?

 

[AViking]

Actually people blame Obama as much as the GoP in the house. The democratic Senate is the only section not getting fingers pointed at.

Congress has a 5% approval rating right now. Obama is at 53%. As far as the debt crisis Obama is taking some of the blame but the majority goes to the Republicans.

 

[dank69]

I am not talking about the website... I am talking about the program itself. Doctors and medical centers accepting it, and how the insurance has to go through a government median when purchased off of the website. We have no proof this will work the way people expect, or kinks won't happen with "surprise" charges people won't see coming. Or ways people can get around paying their medical bill through obamacare, thus putting more money required from the people. We know NOTHING on how this will work, we just believe we know. And being a scientist it is a well known fact. On paper never equals reality.

Charges people won't see coming? This is FUD. The dictionary definition of FUD. Pretty much this whole paragraph of your post is FUD. Nobody knows what the future will bring but that isn't justification for not trying to make things better. If the law ends up causing more problems than it fixes, people will demand changes or reversal, but untill it actually causes problems, demand for repeal is based on nothing more than fear of the unknown.

Your thinking is flawed though. It is not a ransom. Both sides of the government have to agree. That is how our government was planned to work since we re-wrote the articles of confederation into what we have now. It isn't up to just 1 side to give in. It is up to both sides to sit down, discuss, and if they really want to continue being "2 separate political party entities" each give up something in return until the people of America realize we need more than 2 parties, and maybe even abolish party tags and just have each politician be a separate entity.

Yes. They have to agree. Graciously raising the debt ceiling so the country doesn't default on spending obligations that Congress already agreed to is not a concession on the Republicans' part. They have all these demands and offer nothing in return except for something they already want. That is attempting to extract a ransom for doing their job correctly.

If they want to negotiate about discretionary spending, they are supposed to do it during the appropriations process. If they want to stop mandatory spending, they need to get enough votes during elections in order to change the laws they don't like. The Republicans can't get the votes they need so they are trying to bypass the will of the American public.

 

[dank69]

Actually people blame Obama as much as the GoP in the house. The democratic Senate is the only section not getting fingers pointed at.

...

That just goes to show you how fucking retarded the general public is. Congress has not delivered a single bill to Obama for him to sign or reject. Therefore, anyone who blames Obama for this mess can be dismissed as an ignorant twat. If they knew anything about our legislative process they would know any blame aimed at Democrats should be aimed at the Senate.

 

[destey]

There are many threads explaining how foolish it would be for Dems to cave. It rewards bad behavior thus making that behavior become the new status quo. I have no doubt that the Dems will end up throwing the dogs a bone but I think even that is a very bad idea.

Strange definition of "bad behavior" to stick to principles of not stealing people's money to give to other people to buy votes.

 

[dank69]

Strange definition of "bad behavior" to stick to principles of not stealing people's money to give to other people to buy votes.

Go find yourself a tax free utopia and save your childish talking points for someone else.

 

[HomerJS]

It will take the exchange tanking to for the hand of Republicans. There are a lot of Tea partiers who still think crossing default date is no big deal.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Worth pointing out that the vast majority of federal government is not gone at all.

This. Unless the exec branch willfully stops payment on the interest we owe on our debt, we will not be in default. What will happen is that the exec branch will continue to do what it is doing now, but on a bigger scale - finding high-visibility, high pain inducing things to cut in order to bully the American people. This is typical 'city politics' but on a national level. But when we have a president that's nothing more than a community organizer on steroids, this is what you get.

And yes, sportage and the other government is my god types on here are panicking that their god is being threatened right now. So, sportage, kneel down and suck your Obamashaft extra hard tonight. Maybe the messiah will declare a national emergency and seize power for his glory and your salvation.

On a more serious note, I think a late night deal will be struck to raise the debt limit for a few more months. The saga continues.

 

[diesbudt]

Charges people won't see coming? This is FUD. The dictionary definition of FUD. Pretty much this whole paragraph of your post is FUD. Nobody knows what the future will bring but that isn't justification for not trying to make things better. If the law ends up causing more problems than it fixes, people will demand changes or reversal, but untill it actually causes problems, demand for repeal is based on nothing more than fear of the unknown.

Call it what you want. But anyone intelligent would know a program this vast and big should have an "Alpha/beta" period, to ensure the surprises are found and fixed. This is not the 500's, this is 2013. We are suppossed to be vastly more forward thinking, and not just do something that looks good on paper that is WAY too long (whoever wrote that damn bill to be hundreds of pages isn't helpful) that almost no one has read. And you can say surprise charges won't happen, but they already currently happen with normal insurances. It'll just be more difficult a family who needs to rely on an insurance purchased through O-care gets a surprise charge they did not realize Insurance did not cover.

 

[lozina]

So whats the current status? Another push by Congress failed last night and now the Senate is picking it up. But this raises some questions from me who is unfamiliar with the way this works:

Does Senate have the authority to do this? If so, what was the point of doing the vote in Congress in the first place?

If Senate does have the power, why do they seem to also be stalling when the so-called power balance is shifted the other way in Senate? I mean, I heard of the Senate working on it late last week so obviously they are running into problems too

 

[diesbudt]

That just goes to show you how fucking retarded the general public is. Congress has not delivered a single bill to Obama for him to sign or reject. Therefore, anyone who blames Obama for this mess can be dismissed as an ignorant twat. If they knew anything about our legislative process they would know any blame aimed at Democrats should be aimed at the Senate.

Yes. Yes they are. The only person I couldn't see blamed for this in a unbiased long look is Obama. The president cant do shit unless congress gives him shit to sign. All he can do is try to inspire them to be a smarter group of people. However as I said and you agreed upon, the average American don't know this. They also listen to the news, and all media is biased one way or another. Instead of coming to their own conclusions they either A) just vote blindly for their party or B) point the fingers at what the media tells them to and they do.

 

[diesbudt]

So whats the current status? Another push by Congress failed last night and now the Senate is picking it up. But this raises some questions from me who is unfamiliar with the way this works:

Does Senate have the authority to do this? If so, what was the point of doing the vote in Congress in the first place?

If Senate does have the power, why do they seem to also be stalling when the so-called power balance is shifted the other way in Senate? I mean, I heard of the Senate working on it late last week so obviously they are running into problems too

The house controls the spending. Without them the senate cannot do much besides try to offer their own versions of the bill or advise how to go about it. But since both sides are too busy waging a party war, nothing is getting done.

 

[lozina]

The house controls the spending. Without them the senate cannot do much besides try to offer their own versions of the bill or advise how to go about it. But since both sides are too busy waging a party war, nothing is getting done.

OK that makes sense then. Thanks.

 

[dank69]

So whats the current status? Another push by Congress failed last night and now the Senate is picking it up. But this raises some questions from me who is unfamiliar with the way this works:

Does Senate have the authority to do this? If so, what was the point of doing the vote in Congress in the first place?

If Senate does have the power, why do they seem to also be stalling when the so-called power balance is shifted the other way in Senate? I mean, I heard of the Senate working on it late last week so obviously they are running into problems too

The Senate is only working on it because the House can't even come up with a bill that pleases enough of the GOP. Tea Partiers will not budge from demands that won't pass the Senate. That leaves as a last resort the Senate coming to an agreement and Boehner letting it come up for a vote even though it isn't backed by a majority of his majority. It will pass with full Dem support and just enough GOP votes.

 

[AViking]

What I don't understand is why the House completely stopped yesterday after their meeting and the press is now putting the ball in the Senate's court. Shouldn't both sides be working on this at the same time and doing just about everything to get this solved in the next 12 hours?

"Senate leaders confident on reaching a deal". What kind of headlines is this? If the House continues to do jack and shit we are not going to get anywhere.

 

[AViking]

Surely Boehner must understand that the tea party caucus is useless to him. He can pass bills with the rest of the Republicans and Democrats.

 

[diesbudt]

What I don't understand is why the House completely stopped yesterday after their meeting and the press is now putting the ball in the Senate's court. Shouldn't both sides be working on this at the same time and doing just about everything to get this solved in the next 12 hours?

"Senate leaders confident on reaching a deal". What kind of headlines is this? If the House continues to do jack and shit we are not going to get anywhere.

Maybe they are preparing a huge deal and conceding a lot to the republicans for a deal. That is the only way I could take "Confident on reaching a deal"

 

[fskimospy]

Maybe they are preparing a huge deal and conceding a lot to the republicans for a deal. That is the only way I could take "Confident on reaching a deal"

The general outline of the deal is already widely known and it basically gives the Republicans nothing. There might be something around the margins, but this basically appears to be a near total victory for the Democrats.

What I imagine will end up happening is that this deal passes the Senate and then the House passes it with all the Democrats voting yes along with a handful of Republicans.

 

[AViking]

The press is basically saying that the R and D of the Senate are almost at an agreement. They then go on to say that they believe Boehner will have no choice but to either burn the house down or pass that bill. Wonder how this will go...

The worst part is that even if they somehow come to an agreement they might not be able to pass the bills and get them signed in time. Although we will not default at midnight on the dot if we cross that line faith in our system will be hurt.

 

[dank69]

The general outline of the deal is already widely known and it basically gives the Republicans nothing. There might be something around the margins, but this basically appears to be a near total victory for the Democrats.

What I imagine will end up happening is that this deal passes the Senate and then the House passes it with all the Democrats voting yes along with a handful of Republicans.

Only hurdles would be a Cruz filibuster and Boehner accepting the inevitable backlash.