Synthetic vs Regular oil - questions

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: dclapps
Is there any difference in change interval wrt synthetic over conventional? Also, once you use synthethic, you can switch back to conventional during an oil change?

Yes and yes.

Synthetic will typically allow longer oil change intervals. However, to be sure of this it is recommended that oil analysis be performed as there is no guarantee of a longer change interval with synthetic.

It is safe to switch between synthetic and conventional oils at any time.

ZV

 

[Vette73]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
Well, longer than specified oil change intervals will affect your powertrain warranty if your vehicle still has one. Not sure why anyone with a vehicle under warranty would risk that.

For vehicles out of warranty, sure.

Depends. Toyota use to say every 7500 miles for reg oil. That was before their engines started to sludge up. But I use reg oil for 5000miles and syn for 7500-10,000.

So if pushing your car to the high end of the oil drian numbers of soem car makers then yes Syn would not only meet their specs but also make most feal better about going that long. If its 5000miles or less then juts use Reg oil.


Don't use Fram

 

[StageLeft]

Disagree on your response.....are u a user or just a talker....I use the stuff

How TF is amsoil in your oil pan going to make your car handle better? I hope your initial post was a joke. If not, perma-ban from garage for being wrong and then not accepting the corrective lesson gracefully.

 

[zerocool84]

I use synthetic in my SRT-4 cus that's what came from the factory and is spec'd to have and in my 1776cc 70 Bug I run conventional oil. It's only a weekend cruiser and I change it often and it really never sees high speeds. It's ran fine for 7 years. Maybe after a rebuild and a little bump in bore/stroke I'll switch to synthetic.

 

[alkalinetaupehat]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: dclapps
Is there any difference in change interval wrt synthetic over conventional? Also, once you use synthethic, you can switch back to conventional during an oil change?

Yes and yes.

Synthetic will typically allow longer oil change intervals. However, to be sure of this it is recommended that oil analysis be performed as there is no guarantee of a longer change interval with synthetic.

It is safe to switch between synthetic and conventional oils at any time.

ZV

Personally use synthetic for the longer oil change intervals and for what I heard was noticably reduced wear on the engine. 3.3L N/A V6 with 95k on it, and I'm planning on keeping the car for quite a while so figured that synthetic would help.

My concern with your post would be that I have heard numerous times that in fact you should not switch from synthetic to conventional, although that could be more applicable to cars factory-spec'd with synthetic.

I would be interested in that whole oil analysis, so I'm curious as to what it covers and how much it is ($20?). I know that fleets will use them to maximize the life they get out of their oil and to head off any potential issues, though I wasn't aware that you really needed them for passenger vehicles.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: alkalinetaupehat

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: dclapps
Is there any difference in change interval wrt synthetic over conventional? Also, once you use synthethic, you can switch back to conventional during an oil change?

Yes and yes.

Synthetic will typically allow longer oil change intervals. However, to be sure of this it is recommended that oil analysis be performed as there is no guarantee of a longer change interval with synthetic.

It is safe to switch between synthetic and conventional oils at any time.

ZV

Personally use synthetic for the longer oil change intervals and for what I heard was noticably reduced wear on the engine. 3.3L N/A V6 with 95k on it, and I'm planning on keeping the car for quite a while so figured that synthetic would help.

My concern with your post would be that I have heard numerous times that in fact you should not switch from synthetic to conventional, although that could be more applicable to cars factory-spec'd with synthetic.

I would be interested in that whole oil analysis, so I'm curious as to what it covers and how much it is ($20?). I know that fleets will use them to maximize the life they get out of their oil and to head off any potential issues, though I wasn't aware that you really needed them for passenger vehicles.

Provided that the oil used meets the appropriate API service grade and synthetic is not explicitly required per the owner's manual, there is absolutely no danger from switching back and forth between synthetic and conventional oils regardless of what anyone has "heard numerous times".

Obviously, if the manual for the engine specifically calls for synthetic, then synthetic should be used. That should go without saying.

ZV

 

[DVad3r]

The Amsoil people did an analysis that's available for free and it comapres their oil to various other oils, and from what they say yea it reduces wear notably.

Anyways, just changed my oil today. Also changed tranny fluid + filter and gasket. Added that Lucasoil stuff into them both 😀 So far so good, car hasn't exploded on the way back home 😉

Ill keep you posted

 

[desy]

Its marketing
Is Amsol better than Dino oil? yes
Is it better than anything else on the planet? highly debatable

There is only so much oil can do for you. I've had good results with some aftermarket additives but its all anecdotal evidence, and I probably could have just as good results with other vendors.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: DVad3r
The Amsoil people did an analysis that's available for free and it comapres their oil to various other oils, and from what they say yea it reduces wear notably.

Really? A company did a test where the results showed their product in a positive light? Astounding. 😉

I dislike Amsoil because their business model is effectively Amway.

I also dislike their blatant lies in their marketing literature. Amsoil continuously claims to have paved the way for synthetic motor oil. Unfortunately, that's simply not true. Mobil had been making synthetic lubricants for military use long before Amsoil went on the market. While it's true that Amsoil was first to the consumer market, that was only because Mobil did not feel that there was enough consumer demand to justify marketing their military lubricants on the civilian market. In actual fact it is Mobil which has the greater experience and longer history with synthetic lubricants; they simply (correctly at the time) observed that consumers had no real need for such lubricants and allowed Amsoil to beat them to the consumer market.

As far as the four ball wear test that Amsoil tends to tout, the simple fact is that such a test does not accurately model any environment within an engine and its results cannot be said to apply at all to an engine's internal lubrication needs. It looks cool in brochures though.

ZV

 

[SoulAssassin]

Man I've been all over the internet and it's about time someone finally had this debate. Of all the topics out there this one is certainly not beat to hell. Maybe one day someone will decide to have a debate on whether K&N filters add horsepower or allow dirt into your engine. I can only hope...

 

[DVad3r]

Originally posted by: SoulAssassin
Man I've been all over the internet and it's about time someone finally had this debate. Of all the topics out there this one is certainly not beat to hell. Maybe one day someone will decide to have a debate on whether K&N filters add horsepower or allow dirt into your engine. I can only hope...

The K&N thing has been debated here many times and I still don't know whether they are good or bad 😉

 

[DVad3r]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: DVad3r
The Amsoil people did an analysis that's available for free and it comapres their oil to various other oils, and from what they say yea it reduces wear notably.

Really? A company did a test where the results showed their product in a positive light? Astounding. 😉

I dislike Amsoil because their business model is effectively Amway.

I also dislike their blatant lies in their marketing literature. Amsoil continuously claims to have paved the way for synthetic motor oil. Unfortunately, that's simply not true. Mobil had been making synthetic lubricants for military use long before Amsoil went on the market. While it's true that Amsoil was first to the consumer market, that was only because Mobil did not feel that there was enough consumer demand to justify marketing their military lubricants on the civilian market. In actual fact it is Mobil which has the greater experience and longer history with synthetic lubricants; they simply (correctly at the time) observed that consumers had no real need for such lubricants and allowed Amsoil to beat them to the consumer market.

As far as the four ball wear test that Amsoil tends to tout, the simple fact is that such a test does not accurately model any environment within an engine and its results cannot be said to apply at all to an engine's internal lubrication needs. It looks cool in brochures though.

ZV

Yea I know, but it is the most EXPENSIVE oil at Canadian Tire lol. At $ 19.99 a pop for a quart of Amsoil 20w50 v-twin synthetic it must be a pretty good oil 😀 I buy it at the Amway price though of $ 11 bucks a quart.

I agree with you too, I hate their business model. One can always use Mobil 1 V-Twin too which according to Amsoil is 2nd and almost as good as their oil.

Then there is stuff like Lucasoil and Klotz, don't have any experience of how good those are.

One thing that baffles me is if I were to use Lucasoil would I still need the Lucasoil additive? lol I should email them about that 😀

 

[PlasmaBomb]

Originally posted by: mrrman
Disagree on your response.....are u a user or just a talker....I use the stuff

I can tell you are a user 😉

I can also predict the future... I sense much ban in this direction.

 

[Arkaign]

I use synthetic, chiefly because although the differences may not be huge, they are pretty much undeniable (it breaks down less, carbonizes/gunks up the motor less, lubricates slightly better, etc), and the difference in cost of operating a vehicle for 100k miles with and without synthetic are so marginal that I feel I may as well use the better stuff. I also have tons of anecdotal experiences to share relating to synthetic oil being good, but won't waste my time here with that 🙂

 

[arcenite]

I use synthetic because of the longer drain intervals, peace of mind, and of course, ~$20 for 5 quarts of Mobil1 at walmart is tough to pass up. The hard part is the mental preparation before setting foot in the walmart 🙂.

 

[DVad3r]

Originally posted by: arcenite
I use synthetic because of the longer drain intervals, peace of mind, and of course, ~$20 for 5 quarts of Mobil1 at walmart is tough to pass up. The hard part is the mental preparation before setting foot in the walmart 🙂.

Wal-Mart is crazy yo 😀 You go there at 11 pm and the parking lot is full!!! Not to mention seksi sista's with minikirts and triple kid wagons.

😉

 

[crosshairs]

Originally posted by: arcenite
I use synthetic because of the longer drain intervals, peace of mind, and of course, ~$20 for 5 quarts of Mobil1 at walmart is tough to pass up. T

this is what I do also

 

[Gillbot]

The wal-mart branded synthetic blend is a pretty decent oil as well, but I opt for the M1 also.

 

[halik]

Synthetic oil doesn't break down during heat cycles, so it is superior. I'm not so sure about the benefit in a N/A motor though.

Also that whole thing about seals going if you switch from regular to synthetic is universally bullshit.

I run full synthetic in my 2.7T Audi (stock turbos @120K go woo wooo),
and some sort of a blend in my 944.

 

[big man]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: mrrman
Ive used synthetic oil since 2002 on my Vitara, ran better, tighter handling, less oil changes, better gas mileage. I just bought a 2007 Pilot and will be adding synthetic oil to that also. Just make sure that you use an oil filter that handles synthetic oil, not a regular one or you are wasting you $$$. Check out amsoil.com

Wow. So much fail.

Synthetic will not give better gas mileage (no objective testing anywhere has shown a mileage benefit). Switching to a thinner oil will improve mileage (e.g. using 5w20 instead of 10w30), but using a synthetic of the same viscosity as conventional oil will not improve fuel mileage.

Engine oil has nothing whatsoever to do with how a vehicle handles, so there's no possible way that synthetic oil can make a car "tighter handling".

A car will not "run better" on synthetic. That's all in the owner's mind. People want to justify the money they've spent on Amsoil so their subconscious mind invents things like the engine being "smoother" or "running better" even though there is no objective difference.

Yes, you can extend your drain intervals. This is the sole advantage of synthetics in normal street driving.

A regular oil filter is just fine. There is no such thing as a "special" oil filter that "handles" synthetic oil. Any quality oil filter will perform just fine over the extended drain interval. A standard Dana/WIX filter (NAPA Gold) will work perfectly.

Originally posted by: DVad3r
Hmm I see. But what about from a "what will make an engine last longer standpoint?" isn't synthetic better than regular oil? Less wear and tear and will make my engine have a longer life? Not sure if I should switch back to regular now since I have 120,000 km and I've been using synthetic for the past 60,000?

Also when I switched to Amsoil on my bike I noticed a pretty big difference as the oil is used for drivetrain/tranny/and engine. It was a lot smoother and had less/quieter "clunks" when shifting.

The longer life argument is a bit spurious. The truth of the matter is that I have yet to see an engine that failed due to the use of conventional oil. I've seen engines fail from people not changing the oil, or from people using the wrong viscosity oil, or from running out of oil, but never from anything where the issue would have been avoided by using synthetic. Irv Gordon's first million miles were almost certainly achieved on conventional oil and his car is still running fine at nearly 2.7 million miles.

There are simply so many other things on an engine that will fail long before the difference between conventional and synthetic oil would become apparent. If you want to keep the car for over 500,000 miles, then sure, synthetic might help you out. If you're like most people though, you'll never even get close to the mileages where the benefits of synthetic would become apparent.

As far as the bike goes, I hate to say this, but part of the difference may be that your clutch (which runs in that oil bath along with the transmission) is now slipping more during engagement due to the synthetic oil. With wet clutches it is very important to be sure that any oil used contains the appropriate friction modifiers. Some clutches are more sensitive to this than others though, so this may not be a concern for the VRSC. I'm just throwing it out there. A bike's clutch tends to "stick" a little when cold (the reason for the big "clunk" when shifting from neutral to first after starting the bike) and a synthetic may reduce that enough to reduce the perception of clunks, etc, from the transmission.

ZV

You are contradicting yourself numerous times in your reply, it's common sense that running conventional oil will not cause your engine to fail, so all of your engine "tear downs" don't really apply to your argument against syn oil. . . . I don't know anyone that thinks that they're running synthetic oil to prevent engine failure . . . .


it seems as though you have some type of vendetta against Amsoil, you flame them for claiming to have "paved the way" for synthetic oil in motor vehc. applications then readily admit that they were one of the first to bring syn oil to motor vehicle applications.


Yes, there are people that that use poor reasoning to hype it up to be something that it's not, but there are obviously just as many people that use poor reasoning to bring down the hype

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: big man
You are contradicting yourself numerous times in your reply, it's common sense that running conventional oil will not cause your engine to fail, so all of your engine "tear downs" don't really apply to your argument against syn oil. . . . I don't know anyone that thinks that they're running synthetic oil to prevent engine failure . . . .

it seems as though you have some type of vendetta against Amsoil, you flame them for claiming to have "paved the way" for synthetic oil in motor vehc. applications then readily admit that they were one of the first to bring syn oil to motor vehicle applications.

Yes, there are people that that use poor reasoning to hype it up to be something that it's not, but there are obviously just as many people that use poor reasoning to bring down the hype

If I contradict myself, name an example of where I do so. You have not, and, frankly, cannot.

I have not "flamed" Amsoil in any way. I have simply pointed out that their advertising is factually misleading. Amsoil was among the first consumer market synthetic lubricants, but that fact alone is misleading because other companies were producing synthetic lubricants many years before Amsoil existed; the only difference being that those companies were making their products for military applications and not the consumer market. Admitting that Amsoil was among the first in the consumer market does not in any way contradict the fact that Mobil and other companies have more overall experience in the production of synthetic lubricants.

Furthermore, if you had actually read any of my posts as opposed to simply skimming them you would see that I do use synthetic in my own vehicles and that I specifically point out valid reasons for wanting to use synthetics (superior thermal characteristics, extended drain intervals, etc). None of that changes the fact that the majority of people (people with water-cooled and non-turbocharged engines) will never see any benefit from synthetic.

Just because something is "better" doesn't mean that the "better" is useful. Forged parts are "better" than cast parts, but for the vast majority of engines cast parts are more than adequate. It is only in extreme cases where the "better" of forged parts will come into play. Similarly, synthetic is "better" than conventional oil, but in the vast majority of engines conventional oil is more than sufficient and the "better-ness" of synthetic oil will never come into play. It is only in extreme cases where the "better-ness" of synthetic oil becomes relevant.

ZV

 

[DVad3r]

Umm sir, I would like to think that my quaker state synthetic oil is giving me pure performance on my commute to work. I can really feel the engine in it's prime at 2500 rpm. The shifts are barely noticable. Maybe it's just me but I feel a strong connection with the overall vibrations of the vehicle. With synthetic these vibrations are more tight and less floppy.

 

[LTC8K6]

Wow, I gotta put some synthetic in my hemi. Apparently it will go faster, turn better, use less fuel, run cooler, and never wear out... 😀

Where do people get this stuff from anyway? I never knew advertisements for oil were that effective.

Synthetic oil is necessary for a very narrow range of vehicles and conditions, which have been given in the thread already. Otherwise, regular oil is all you ever need.

 

[big man]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: big man
You are contradicting yourself numerous times in your reply, it's common sense that running conventional oil will not cause your engine to fail, so all of your engine "tear downs" don't really apply to your argument against syn oil. . . . I don't know anyone that thinks that they're running synthetic oil to prevent engine failure . . . .

it seems as though you have some type of vendetta against Amsoil, you flame them for claiming to have "paved the way" for synthetic oil in motor vehc. applications then readily admit that they were one of the first to bring syn oil to motor vehicle applications.

Yes, there are people that that use poor reasoning to hype it up to be something that it's not, but there are obviously just as many people that use poor reasoning to bring down the hype

If I contradict myself, name an example of where I do so. You have not, and, frankly, cannot.

I have not "flamed" Amsoil in any way. I have simply pointed out that their advertising is factually misleading. Amsoil was among the first consumer market synthetic lubricants, but that fact alone is misleading because other companies were producing synthetic lubricants many years before Amsoil existed; the only difference being that those companies were making their products for military applications and not the consumer market. Admitting that Amsoil was among the first in the consumer market does not in any way contradict the fact that Mobil and other companies have more overall experience in the production of synthetic lubricants.

Furthermore, if you had actually read any of my posts as opposed to simply skimming them you would see that I do use synthetic in my own vehicles and that I specifically point out valid reasons for wanting to use synthetics (superior thermal characteristics, extended drain intervals, etc). None of that changes the fact that the majority of people (people with water-cooled and non-turbocharged engines) will never see any benefit from synthetic.

Just because something is "better" doesn't mean that the "better" is useful. Forged parts are "better" than cast parts, but for the vast majority of engines cast parts are more than adequate. It is only in extreme cases where the "better" of forged parts will come into play. Similarly, synthetic is "better" than conventional oil, but in the vast majority of engines conventional oil is more than sufficient and the "better-ness" of synthetic oil will never come into play. It is only in extreme cases where the "better-ness" of synthetic oil becomes relevant.

ZV

You contradict yourself by saying syn oil will let you go for extended drain intervals. then you go on to say that the syn oil extra life argument is spurious.


And you're still hating on Amsoil by saying the Facts are misleading. How can facts be misleading? They claim to be one of the first to bring syn oil to consumers, and here you are still whining about how the military was using it a long time ago . . . . . Everyone knows Amsoil didn't invent synthetic oil, get over it, get over them . . . . .



I've done my fair share of research on synthetic oil, and i didn't read all of your essays because i bet it didn't even answer the OP's question to begin with. For some reason when it comes to motor oil there's always some guy on a forum that'll ignore the question and go on and on about his irrelevant knowledge of the intricate world of motor oil

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

It is safe to switch between synthetic and conventional oils at any time.

I'm not sure that's true.

My dad has a 96 accord EX v6. We ran dino oil for, what, 110k miles before I wanted to give synthetic a try. Same oil grade, but the engine ran worse than regular oil. Valves were ticking and stuff. That went away when we went back to dino.

With that said, I run synthetic in our newer vehicles. I would rather have a longer interval than change oil every 3k miles. Plus oil has gotten expensive.