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Switzerland will vote on $25 min wage on May 18th

Attic

Attic

Diamond Member
The Swiss will vote in a national referendum May 18 on whether to create a minimum wage of 22 francs ($25) per hour, or 4,000 francs a month. While about 90 percent of workers in Switzerland already earn more than that, employers say setting Switzerland’s first national wage floor would push up salaries throughout the economy. When adjusted for currency and purchasing power, it would be the highest minimum in the world.
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Full Article at Bloomberg


I think this will probably pass. Will be interesting to see how this plays out given all the angst about interfering with min wage in the states.

Other thing that stood out is that 90% of the Swiss worker already earn more than $25 an hour. Purchasing power isn't even on dollar terms to what we would think of as $25 here in the states though, a daily bus pass runs $20 in switzerland.

Here in the states I've read multiple places that more than 25% of workers earn under $10 an hour and I'd wager that close to 75% earn less than $25 an hour.

I wonder how much subsidy money tax payers don't have to foot if workers are able to afford basic needs like health care and food from their wages alone?
 
Attic said:
I wonder how much subsidy money tax payers don't have to foot if workers are able to afford basic needs like health care and food from their wages alone?
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Except that basic laws of supply and demand state that the cost of food and other services will increase as well.

Net buying power will be the same for those at the bottom.

The problem is everyone who made more than minimum wage but less than $25/hr. They'll all have much less buying power and get proportionally fucked over.
 
It's an apples and oranges comparison. Purchasing power is so different from one country to another that $25/hour lacks any meaningful understanding. Just like so many other countries where they *gasp* earn $100/month, (oh myyyyy), but don't tell you that a house there costs $2000.
 
Incorruptible said:
Bunch of idiots. Government has no right to be dictating wages like this, it's a private matter between the employer and employee.
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Reading problems macro king? It's the citizens who are voting on this in a public referendum.

Switzerland is run about as close to direct democracy as I think it's possible to do in the modern world. The population votes on almost everything.

*you* may have issues with democracy but the Swiss seem to be able to handle it just fine.
 
I think this is to be understood as a follow-up to the immigration vote.
If wages are fixed, then it becomes more difficult to hire foreign workers instead of Swiss workers, for lower wages.
This lower wage issue at least, was one of the main arguments for the immigration limitation. Funnily enough, the immigration issue was mostly voted against by people that benefit from this cheap labor, i.e. people living close to the border, and was voted for by people living in the more rural, more central parts of Switzerland, that never get to see foreigners anyway 😀
 
What a bunch of idiots. Sure their minimum wage earners might soon be making $25 or more an hour, but the government probably walks away with 50% to pay for all the healthcare/college/mater/paternity leave. Americans are far better off. At least the $7.25 Americans make here is hardly taxed at all in comparison.
 
biostud said:
We have a ~$20 min wage here in Denmark. Not by law, but by unions agreements with companies.
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the accords for my field generally puts minimum wage at almost $30 for me, and I'm a student. lots of companies try to get students work for peanuts, had one try to tell me as a student worker I was only covered by the student worker accord, but as an IT worker I'm pretty much always covered by the IT accord for the company so I called up PROSA (my union) and boom 50% raise.
 
DrPizza said:
It's an apples and oranges comparison. Purchasing power is so different from one country to another that $25/hour lacks any meaningful understanding.
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Yeah, in Japan min wage is close to 670 Yen per hour. Sounds great.. until you realize it has no bearing what-so-ever with spending power elsewhere.

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BTW: I'm in favor of increasing the US minimum wage to the same amounts as in Europe; $9 - $10 an hour. The insane $15 and more per hour that people love to banter around though would likely do more harm than good.
 
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DrPizza said:
It's an apples and oranges comparison. Purchasing power is so different from one country to another that $25/hour lacks any meaningful understanding. Just like so many other countries where they *gasp* earn $100/month, (oh myyyyy), but don't tell you that a house there costs $2000.
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Yep, the cost of living in Switzerland roughly makes $25 equal to $14 of purchasing power in the states. Though $14 in the states is relative as well to location.

I get that a free market economy would be best served to find its own wage for all skills of work and that in a free market economy setting a wage floor would be inefecient and have undesirable effects. What i'm unclear on is the extent to which the Swiss and USA have a free market economy.

If we remove the free market economy from deriding the notion that raising min wage in the USA is bad, I think min wage argument can and should take a different tone.

In the states we aren't really of a belief that corps and big business or political friends or big donors or xyz are operating on an even playing field are we? Why hold the individual to a free market standard of wages if there is no free market? Using free markets wisdom of efficient transfer and pricing of goods in a complex system is a sleight of hand maneuver when used to champion policy in the USA which IMO is not free market driven.

At some point I think the elephant in the room has to get some sights on it, crony capitalism creates distortions for workers and their pay from what a free market would decide. What is policies role in solving this. Or are we not a crony capitalist system in the USA?, or perhaps it doesn't matter.

Reason the Swiss min wage being voted on to $25 drew my attention is because the country perhaps is getting something we aren't here and in other areas of public policy.
 
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Sonikku said:
What a bunch of idiots. Sure their minimum wage earners might soon be making $25 or more an hour, but the government probably walks away with 50% to pay for all the healthcare/college/mater/paternity leave. Americans are far better off. At least the $7.25 Americans make here is hardly taxed at all in comparison.
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I would also bet there is no such thing as earned income credit in Switzerland.
 
Matt1970 said:
He has to work 2 hours just to pay for the bus to and from work. Probably 3 after taxes.
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Why so much bullshit?

First off I don't know anyone making so little. McDonalds pays about $16-$19 per hour. A YEARLY pass for the Stockholm Metro costs $1257 and is the most expensive Metro in the world.
 
this vote just means that the left and unions managed to gather 100k signatures, it does not mean it will pass. It requires a majority of people and states.

Personally I think 4000 is too high, even accounting for the high cost of life. Farmers in poorer areas can't pay fruit pickers that much money.
We could cut health insurance subsidies with this though.

Plus we already have collective contracts between industrial associations and unions, for the various sectors and jobs. It would be better to give the state more power to make them compulsory for all companies when salary dumping is detected. A fixed salary is not flexible enough.

_Rick_ said:
Funnily enough, the immigration issue was mostly voted against by people that benefit from this cheap labor, i.e. people living close to the border, and was voted for by people living in the more rural, more central parts of Switzerland, that never get to see foreigners anyway 😀
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My state is on the border and 1/4 of the workforce is made up of underpaid italian cross-border commuters, and the whole road network is blocked every day because they travel mainly by car. The yes votes were 70%.
People in the big cities north of the alps voted mainly no because they're more left-leaning in the cities, and those cities are rich so they're not feeling the economic effects of immigration. The existence of the MCG in leftist Geneva proves that there is a problem there too anyway.
The people in the more central parts do get to see the effects of population growth since the rural areas are becoming city suburbs. Everyone sees the building boom and the lack of affordable housing.


Sonikku said:
What a bunch of idiots. Sure their minimum wage earners might soon be making $25 or more an hour, but the government probably walks away with 50% to pay for all the healthcare/college/mater/paternity leave. Americans are far better off. At least the $7.25 Americans make here is hardly taxed at all in comparison.
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taxes are actually low compared to neighbouring countries.
But you pay your own health insurance, and it's compulsory. And that's a lot of money, although you get better service than in countries with socialized medicine.

Incorruptible said:
Bunch of idiots. Government has no right to be dictating wages like this, it's a private matter between the employer and employee.
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it's the people taking the decision not the government so whatever comes out will be a democratic decision.
 
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drebo said:
Except that basic laws of supply and demand state that the cost of food and other services will increase as well.

Net buying power will be the same for those at the bottom.

The problem is everyone who made more than minimum wage but less than $25/hr. They'll all have much less buying power and get proportionally fucked over.
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'Basic' laws are useless when it comes to discussing what happens in the wider economy as a whole.

What you've described is an oft-predicted consequence of the minimum wage yet it doesn't happen.
 
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