Switzerland votes whether to ban Muslim Minarets.

[JS80]

If Jews started flying airplanes into skyscrapers and strapping bombs and blowing up trains or from where whackos start clamoring for the Jewish equivalent of sharia, you can bet that synagogues would come under the same intense scrutiny as mosques. Non sequitur.

As far as extremists are concerned, the reason why most muslim countries have become s**tholes is because the cowards, sorry moderates never stood up to the extremists in their midst. It's about time that someone took a stand and said "enough is enough".

Why is it that it is always how democratic societies are "failing muslims" but it's never about why muslims are failing democratic societies. And try building a non-muslim place of worship in muslim countries and see what the reaction would be.

That's the thing - the moderates aren't cowards. They agree with what the "extremists" are doing - maybe they don't have the balls to do it themselves. But their silence isn't due to being frightened, it's their support while pretending to the west they are cowards. It's the duplicitous strategy they practice.

 

[SamurAchzar]

That's the thing - the moderates aren't cowards. They agree with what the "extremists" are doing - maybe they don't have the balls to do it themselves. But their silence isn't due to being frightened, it's their support while pretending to the west they are cowards. It's the duplicitous strategy they practice.

Exactly. The polls taken among Muslims show frightening support for terrorists and radicals. When you have 30% of the population supporting Sharia law and suicide bombings, how do you even begin to define "radical"?

 

[0marTheZealot]

Exactly. The polls taken among Muslims show frightening support for terrorists and radicals. When you have 30% of the population supporting Sharia law and suicide bombings, how do you even begin to define "radical"?

Go back 70 years and you'll find near unanimous support for the extermination of the Jews across Europe, not just Germany. Give people opportunities and remove oppression and look what happens. As a whole, the Middle East has not allowed to flourish on it's own. The major powers in the world maintain the status quo in that region to further their own interests.

Extremists flourish because they are the only ones getting shit done to many people's eyes. When moderates/liberals are allowed to get shit done, you'll see the Middle East flourish in 50 years. The key difference is that extremists have no regard for lives and the law, while the moderates/liberals are completely constrained by the laws imposed by the corrupt leaderships in the Middle East.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Go back 70 years and you'll find near unanimous support for the extermination of the Jews across Europe, not just Germany. Give people opportunities and remove oppression and look what happens. As a whole, the Middle East has not allowed to flourish on it's own. The major powers in the world maintain the status quo in that region to further their own interests.

Extremists flourish because they are the only ones getting shit done to many people's eyes. When moderates/liberals are allowed to get shit done, you'll see the Middle East flourish in 50 years. The key difference is that extremists have no regard for lives and the law, while the moderates/liberals are completely constrained by the laws imposed by the corrupt leaderships in the Middle East.

Is there a flourishing Muslim nation outside the Middle East that I haven't heard of?
The West meddled everywhere - Japan, British territories, Germany, Vietnam, Korea you name it - and much more aggressively than in the ME. No one ended up even remotely as fucked as Arab countries in the ME.

It has nothing to do with the West or the USA really, it's a manifestation of Muslim societies. Arabs need someone like Saddam to control them with a steady hand, or else it turns into a tribal mayhem.

China flourishes, Arabs will remain where they are. I don't think they are no content with that.

 

[ranmaniac]

Amazing how many Stormfront members also post on ATOT P&N. Looks like many would be in the KKK if they weren't Jewish.

 

[sandorski]

Amazing how many Stormfront members also post on ATOT P&N. Looks like many would be in the KKK if they weren't Jewish.

Indeed.

 

[SamurAchzar]

So the far left liberal zeitgeist is acceptance of Islam, at all costs, no questions asked? I don't like Islam, sorry. I have nothing against Muslims as individuals, but in groups, I feel my personal liberties are threatened by them. If you can see things differently, good for you.

sandorski, you great enlightened soul, tell me, what would cause you to change your mind towards Islam and decide it's hostile and unable of coexistence? What would do they need to do, and under which circumstances?
If you can't think of such circumstances, it's very difficult to take your opinion seriously.

For the silent public, 9/11 and the ongoing stream of Muslim cultural bits we're exposed to since Islam became a fashionable discussion subject, are enough to rank them pretty low.

 

[sandorski]

So the far left liberal zeitgeist is acceptance of Islam, at all costs, no questions asked? I don't like Islam, sorry. I have nothing against Muslims as individuals, but in groups, I feel my personal liberties are threatened by them. If you can see things differently, good for you.

sandorski, you great enlightened soul, tell me, what would cause you to change your mind towards Islam and decide it's hostile and unable of coexistence? What would do they need to do, and under which circumstances?
If you can't think of such circumstances, it's very difficult to take your opinion seriously.

For the silent public, 9/11 and the ongoing stream of Muslim cultural bits we're exposed to since Islam became a fashionable discussion subject, are enough to rank them pretty low.

Utter Fail dude. You fail to see that You are the same as what You rail against. You want to blame all, just like the Few of them blame All.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Utter Fail dude. You fail to see that You are the same as what You rail against. You want to blame all, just like the Few of them blame All.

Yes, yes, lets move on beyond the regular liberal Moonbeam-esque mind tricks of "you are the same as what you're rallying against". Very nice mirror rhetoric, other than the fact I kinda like democracy, full women and gay rights and I don't think god exists. Not very much alike am I. Keep that for the kiddies. I'd appreciate if you'll answer the question, although I doubt you can, as it might shatter your perception of Mohammad, riding on a unicorn, handing out lollipops to Christian children and advocating for tolerance.

 

[jpeyton]

Oh well, saves on building costs, no? No need for elaborate minarets now.

This isn't a ban on Mosques.

 

[sandorski]

Yes, yes, lets move on beyond the regular liberal Moonbeam-esque mind tricks of "you are the same as what you're rallying against". Very nice mirror rhetoric, other than the fact I kinda like democracy, full women and gay rights and I don't think god exists. Not very much alike am I. Keep that for the kiddies. I'd appreciate if you'll answer the question, although I doubt you can, as it might shatter your perception of Mohammad, riding on a unicorn, handing out lollipops to Christian children and advocating for tolerance.

When Muslims burn down the Reich-stag, I *might* be convinced to join you.

 

[SamurAchzar]

When Muslims burn down the Reich-stag, I *might* be convinced to join you.

Very clever. Anyway, I'm not in the business of accepting any living thing with no questions asked. I have my lower thresholds and Islam as a concept fails to pass the filter. I'm sure they really heart your tolerance, and might even grant you an exemption from Sharia law (I'm just kidding, you won't be exempt).

 

[sandorski]

Very clever. Anyway, I'm not in the business of accepting any living thing with no questions asked. I have my lower thresholds and Islam as a concept fails to pass the filter. I'm sure they really heart your tolerance, and might even grant you an exemption from Sharia law (I'm just kidding, you won't be exempt).

I'm certain the Muslim Radicals feel the same about you.

 

[SamurAchzar]

I'm certain the Muslim Radicals feel the same about you.

If it was only the radicals, I wouldn't mind.

 

[Jaskalas]

If it was only the radicals, I wouldn't mind.

There’s a large segment of our population that wants to see violent extremism flourish under the banner of Islam. Yet these same people assail Christians, Catholics and any other religion in the same position.

I believe it was the Palestinian conflict that made Muslims a protected liberal minority. How else can you explain atheists defending one religion while condemning all others?

 

[OutHouse]

I don't see Mexicans strapping bombs to their chest yelling Hay-soos es bueno.

lol, im very glad this isnt happening.

 

[sandorski]

There’s a large segment of our population that wants to see violent extremism flourish under the banner of Islam. Yet these same people assail Christians, Catholics and any other religion in the same position.

I believe it was the Palestinian conflict that made Muslims a protected liberal minority. How else can you explain atheists defending one religion while condemning all others?

Fail.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Fail.

BC must be a helluva calm place if this limp wrist approach to life got you anywhere...

 

[sandorski]

BC must be a helluva calm place if this limp wrist approach to life got you anywhere...

Don't be hatin cause where you are sucks.

 

[0marTheZealot]

Is there a flourishing Muslim nation outside the Middle East that I haven't heard of?
The West meddled everywhere - Japan, British territories, Germany, Vietnam, Korea you name it - and much more aggressively than in the ME. No one ended up even remotely as fucked as Arab countries in the ME.

It has nothing to do with the West or the USA really, it's a manifestation of Muslim societies. Arabs need someone like Saddam to control them with a steady hand, or else it turns into a tribal mayhem.

China flourishes, Arabs will remain where they are. I don't think they are no content with that.

You forget history very quickly. Historically, the West has been under siege by the Islamic Empires. I can think of at least 5 times in the last 1,000 years when Europe was under an existential threat from the Islamic Empires. If something minor, such as the weather or the health of the current ruler were different, we'd be posting this in arabic. So Islam has flourished and rather extravagantly at that. Remember, the great seat of mathematics and science was Arabia for about 800 years while Europe was busy destroying witches, warlocks and other dissidents. So progress, science and all these things are not exclusive to the West.

Look at Germany as a great example. That country was radicalized to a never before seen extent. It took the biggest war in history to bring down Hitler and over 20 years of democracy building to make Germany the country it is today. You think if we installed a puppet dictator that Germany would be in the same position it is today? Look at East Germany as a great counter-example, it languished under Soviet Union. It took 20 years of reunification to bring East Germany to the same level as West Germany. By and large, the Middle East and the Muslim world as a whole has been oppressed by installed dictators. This is the biggest problem.

As for terrorism, any oppressed group will lash out in violence. The Jews did it in the '20s when they bombed London apartment buildings and exploded cars in Tsarist Russia. The Indians did it when they were under colonial rule with the British. Sri Lanka just finished a decades long with their oppressed minority (the Tamils). The Irish just gave up their struggle about a decade ago. So again, terrorism isn't just limited to Islam, just about every major ethnic and religious group is guilty of this.

 

[SamurAchzar]

You forget history very quickly. Historically, the West has been under siege by the Islamic Empires. I can think of at least 5 times in the last 1,000 years when Europe was under an existential threat from the Islamic Empires. If something minor, such as the weather or the health of the current ruler were different, we'd be posting this in arabic. So Islam has flourished and rather extravagantly at that. Remember, the great seat of mathematics and science was Arabia for about 800 years while Europe was busy destroying witches, warlocks and other dissidents. So progress, science and all these things are not exclusive to the West.

Look at Germany as a great example. That country was radicalized to a never before seen extent. It took the biggest war in history to bring down Hitler and over 20 years of democracy building to make Germany the country it is today. You think if we installed a puppet dictator that Germany would be in the same position it is today? Look at East Germany as a great counter-example, it languished under Soviet Union. It took 20 years of reunification to bring East Germany to the same level as West Germany. By and large, the Middle East and the Muslim world as a whole has been oppressed by installed dictators. This is the biggest problem.

As for terrorism, any oppressed group will lash out in violence. The Jews did it in the '20s when they bombed London apartment buildings and exploded cars in Tsarist Russia. The Indians did it when they were under colonial rule with the British. Sri Lanka just finished a decades long with their oppressed minority (the Tamils). The Irish just gave up their struggle about a decade ago. So again, terrorism isn't just limited to Islam, just about every major ethnic and religious group is guilty of this.

I agree with everything you said, and yet you can't blame the West, 50-60 years on, for the state of the Middle East specifically or Muslims in general. This is just shifting responsibility. If anything, the oppressive regimes - Assad, Mubarak, Saddam at his time, SA, Jordanian King Abdallah - all stand in the way of radical Islamization. Democracy is not the answer for these countries - not yet. It will be so in 100 years, but not today. They need their dictators, so better have ones that are friendly towards us than another Khaminai.

 

[bfdd]

0mar glad you brought up the Muslim worlds conflicts with the West. Many people forget about it especially things like the Barbary Coast Slave Trade.

 

[ebaycj]

A substantial number of mosques in the West are funded by the Saudis who practise a brand of Islam called Wahabism that is known for inculcating extreme intolerance amongst it's followers. As well, the brand of Islam practised here is politico-religious in nature which goes against the grain of Western secular democracy. It is no secret that they are the places where impressionable youth who are struggling to fit into Western society are fed the kind of poisons that turns them into fifth columnists and homicide bombers. If this is not a threat to democracy, then I don't know what is.

Tell that to the Catholic Church. Or to any Christians, for that matter. Or the Jews.

 

[ebaycj]

I'm thinking we light up Pakistan.

See if Osama dodges that.

Pakistan has nukes. You still want to light them up?

 

[SamurAchzar]

Pakistan has nukes. You still want to light them up?

How long do you think it will take before the ISI hands Pakistani nukes to radicals?