[Sweclockers] Tonga is going to do more than just replacing 750 Ti this summer

Mondozei

Golden Member
Jul 7, 2013
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Sweclockers... after correctly revealing 750 Ti before anyone else, after correctly writing about the lack of 28 nm this year, and confirming it, before anyone else and after nailing the delay of the ill-fated GTX Titan Z... are back.

This time, however, they are training their sights on AMD. A few days ago, Videocardz wrote that 750 Ti was going to be the primary card that the new Tonga architecture was initially targeting, and, much like 750 Ti, would merely be a showcase for a new architecture until the heavy artillery came along much later.

Well, Sweclockers are now saying that that may not be the whole truth(they are not dismissing a low-end card per se), only that AMD will try to replace the aging Tahiti architecture while they are at it.

That means the R9-280 and the R9-280X as it stands right now for their current GPU mix.

This means that unless Nvidia releases a mid-range Maxwell card or two soon, AMD is going to eat away at Nvidia's GTX 760 and GTX 770 sales, which is the budget to midrange segment most people are buying into.

As for the exact specificaitons, Sweclockers are not getting all the information just yet, so they refuse to speculate on too much. What they are willing to share, however, is that the new Tonga midrange card(s) have a memory bus of 256 bit, instead of Tahiti's 384. AMD are going to compensate for this using fast GDDR5 memory, maybe even up to 7 GHz or more.

What it does get interesting is that the Sweclockers article is a bit muddy on one particular topic. They are writing that the midrange Tonga card(s) appear to be a downscaled variant of Hawaii. This could mean that Tonga is merely a codeword for a new card launch and not an entirely new architecture.

Or it could also mean that the new architecture is simply an improved Hawaii. It could be GCN 1.2. Maybe it is GCN 2.0, after all. So far, Sweclockers are not releasing more information on this, but I'm sure they'll follow this one up.


Source
 

Cloudfire777

Golden Member
Mar 24, 2013
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R9 200 series will be Tonga. A bit strange that they didnt jump to R9 300 series if it was a new architecture.
R9 M295X (mobile card) will be Tonga

get
 

Gikaseixas

Platinum Member
Jul 1, 2004
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R9 200 series will be Tonga. A bit strange that they didnt jump to R9 300 series if it was a new architecture.
R9 M295X (mobile card) will be Tonga

get

Interesting. They must be making good progress in power usage efficiency.
Tahiti was a bit fat compared to GK104 so IMO they're using a similar strategy here, small bus, die, etc and then release something big, mean and powerful for the high end.
 

Fox5

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
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Interesting. They must be making good progress in power usage efficiency.
Tahiti was a bit fat compared to GK104 so IMO they're using a similar strategy here, small bus, die, etc and then release something big, mean and powerful for the high end.

Yeah but the Maxwell architecture puts even the GCN1.1 cards to shame in power/performance, even in some the areas AMD is traditionally strong like OpenCL compute.

I'd imagine AMD's laptop play is more likely Kaveri.
 

Techhog

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
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Yeah but the Maxwell architecture puts even the GCN1.1 cards to shame in power/performance, even in some the areas AMD is traditionally strong like OpenCL compute.

I'd imagine AMD's laptop play is more likely Kaveri.

There's no chance that the M295X is Kaveri...
 

Cloudfire777

Golden Member
Mar 24, 2013
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Interesting. They must be making good progress in power usage efficiency.
Tahiti was a bit fat compared to GK104 so IMO they're using a similar strategy here, small bus, die, etc and then release something big, mean and powerful for the high end.

If they can make R9 M295X out of the desktop Tonga chip, it will be a huge upgrade for current R9 M290X/8970M owners.

8970M/M290X have 1280 shaders.
R9 280 have 1792 shaders, R9 280X 2048 shaders.
Since Tonga is the replacement for R9 280X, one can assume atleast similar but probably better than 280X.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
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I think it's supposed to be a replacement for Pitcairn. It's performance will make Tahiti redundant.
 

NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
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I think it's supposed to be a replacement for Pitcairn. It's performance will make Tahiti redundant.
It's a replacement for Tahiti.

FirePro W8000 => Tahiti Pro
FirePro W8100 => Tonga XT (Between W8000/Tahiti Pro and W9000/Tahiti XT)
R9 200 series => Tonga Pro
R9 200 series => Tonga XT
R9 M295X => Amethyst XT
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
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It's a replacement for Tahiti.

FirePro W8000 => Tahiti Pro
FirePro W8100 => Tonga XT (Between W8000/Tahiti Pro and W9000/Tahiti XT)
R9 200 series => Tonga Pro
R9 200 series => Tonga XT
R9 M295X => Amethyst XT

Well, I would hope that Tahiti's replacement would meet/beat Hawaii. Or is it going to be less than 25% performance improvement next gen?
 

NostaSeronx

Diamond Member
Sep 18, 2011
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Well, I would hope that Tahiti's replacement would meet/beat Hawaii. Or is it going to be less than 25% performance improvement next gen?
W8000 => 1792 ALUs
W8100 => xxxx ALUs
W9000 => 2048 ALUs
W9100 => 2816 ALUs

2048 -> 2816 => 768 ALUs
1792 -> xxxx => 768 ALUs => xxxx = 2560 ALUs.

1280 * 2 => 2560 ALUs... Tonga is basically Pitcairn X2.

R9 M295X = 2x R9 M290X / Crossfire R9 M290X
 

Techhog

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
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W8000 => 1792 ALUs
W8100 => xxxx ALUs
W9000 => 2048 ALUs
W9100 => 2816 ALUs

2048 -> 2816 => 768 ALUs
1792 -> xxxx => 768 ALUs => xxxx = 2560 ALUs.

1280 * 2 => 2560 ALUs... Tonga is basically Pitcairn X2.

R9 M295X = 2x R9 M290X / Crossfire R9 M290X

This is the best job of extrapolating something from almost nothing that I've ever seen.

Seriously... What?
 

Mondozei

Golden Member
Jul 7, 2013
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Your post sounds like a heavily slanted advertisement.... Just saying.

Huh? You make no sense. Just sayin'.

R9 200 series will be Tonga. A bit strange that they didnt jump to R9 300 series if it was a new architecture.
R9 M295X (mobile card) will be Tonga

get

Interesting! That also makes the wording that Sweclockers used in their article a bit more logical, invoking Hawaii.

If they can make R9 M295X out of the desktop Tonga chip, it will be a huge upgrade for current R9 M290X/8970M owners.

8970M/M290X have 1280 shaders.
R9 280 have 1792 shaders, R9 280X 2048 shaders.
Since Tonga is the replacement for R9 280X, one can assume atleast similar but probably better than 280X.

I don't expect huge performance deltas at stock speeds, in large part because it would neuter 290/290X. The gains are probably concentrated in power effiency, which would make the cards potentially more powerful under overclocking.

Still, I would want to see a 28 nm high-end card this year, but it may look like we have to wait for TSMC's 20 nm for that next year.
 

Borealis7

Platinum Member
Oct 19, 2006
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my guess is that performance isn't going to be anything new. the power consumption, heat and price are whats going to be interesting. no new node -> no technological leap.

also, Tonga means Thong in my language...so it's the Brand new AMD Thong! it'll fit snuggly in your middle PCIe slot, but sometimes it moves to the side and you have to re-seat it :D
 

bunnyfubbles

Lifer
Sep 3, 2001
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Only interesting if it brings HBM.

HBM only interesting if it actually give us some sort of advantage, such as cost savings by scaling back from exorbitant memory architectures (likely won't scale back pricing too much when they can just increase their profit margins when facing a lack of competition) or if they stick with 256bit+ configurations to give us insane bandwidth (which likely won't really do anything for us outside of the ultra high end...which isn't what these parts are anyway)

really, the only area I see stacked memory making the most difference, let alone make enough of a difference for us to even care about outside of well beyond 1440p, is with APUs.

I would love it if AMD could produce an APU with steamroller cores and an iGPU as good if not better than the PS4's, and then be able to pair it with some HBM or HMC memory. Such a setup would make for an amazing NUC.
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
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I couldn't care less what the underlying tech is as long as the performance and other usage characteristics are good.

Oh, it may well be a very good graphics card, but not necessarily interesting.
 

Arkadrel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2010
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Tonga might also bring;
Integrated voltage regulation
Inter-frame power gating

This roadmap also applies to dGPUs not just to APUs.
http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7974/Screen-Shot-2014-04-29-at-1.08.08-AM.jpg

If you check the die stacking its happening, you would notice DRAM and IVR are part of the stacking elements.


Power saveing features.
Well I guess they need it if they plan on makeing a 280x replacement, thats more power effecient.



Only interesting if it brings HBM.

I want to see what both companies can do with a 128bit bus card, with HBM.

For that matter, a APU with HBM..... its what AMD has needed for along time for APUs to be able to really kick off, in the GPU performance department and not be memory bandwidth starved.

I really hope the people at AMD are putting alot of R&D and focus into HBM for APUs.
 
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NostaSeronx

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Sep 18, 2011
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Power saveing features.
Well I guess they need it if they plan on makeing a 280x replacement, thats more power effecient.
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/miguel-rodriguez/32/77a/41
...The aim of reducing power consumption and increasing energy efficiency and performance.
Performance will increase with the integrated voltage regulator.
I really hope the people at AMD are putting alot of R&D and focus into HBM for APUs.
It probably won't be till late 2016 for APUs to get HBM. As the theoretical maximum capacity for a single 29nm HBM stack is 4GB. While the ones being produced after June will have a maximum capacity of 1GB per stack.

2014 - 1 GB, 4+1 Stack (29nm)
2016 - 8 GB, 8+1 Stack (21nm)
 
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el etro

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Jul 21, 2013
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So, this GPU will be the top GPU for notebooks too?? Very well.

Tonga will be great to fight Nvidia monopoly in notebooks.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
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Sweclockers... after correctly revealing 750 Ti before anyone else, after correctly writing about the lack of 28 nm this year, and confirming it,

I'm going to assume you meant 20nm there, not 28nm. As 28nm has been the standard process for over 2 years now. Secondly, fanboys and arm chair pundits talking on an Internet forum does not mean 20nm has been delayed until Q3 2015. Silicon taped out at the end of 2013, so we could easily see some 20nm skus in 2014.
 

NostaSeronx

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Sep 18, 2011
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I'm going to assume you meant 20nm there, not 28nm. As 28nm has been the standard process for over 2 years now. Secondly, fanboys and arm chair pundits talking on an Internet forum does not mean 20nm has been delayed until Q3 2015. Silicon taped out at the end of 2013, so we could easily see some 20nm skus in 2014.
Well GlobalFoundries has one of its 22/20 nanometer class nodes in the 28nm realm.

GlobalFoundries 22-nm/20-nm class nodes;
- 28nm SHP
- 20nm LPM
- 20nm SHP(renamed to LPM+)

We are already seeing 22nm SKUs; Kaveri, Beema, Mullins, etc.
 
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