[Sweclockers] Radeon 380X coming late spring, almost 50% improvement over 290X

[chimaxi83]

It is always nice to read a very positive contribution in any thread. Thank you!

After a while, the threadcrapping trolls blend in with the rest of the noise

 

[RussianSensation]

I was just pointing out, don't use peak load power as some sort of metric.

Some people use their cards for compute, distributed computing, etc. In those cases the GPU load is 99%+ for prolonged periods of time. For my use cases the average is basically peak load.

Even AMD goes over their rated TDP for peak power; it was probably only that high for milisecond(s), which PSUs are supposed to be built to handle, and you should really have enough room for them even without that.

Not if you run Collatz Conjecture, SETI@H, MilkyWay@H, compute, etc. The load is 99-100% 24/7.

Even if we use your average basis, 780Ti/290X uses 230-250W but 780Ti has a 250W TDP and AMD a 290W TDP. Like I said their TDPs are not comparable.

The companies also don't rerate every products' TDP.

The TDP is defined differently for the brands, not their SKUs. 200W TDP NV card and a 200W TDP AMD card will use a different amount of power. Their TDP ratings are meaningless without real world measurements.

5960X vs 4790K
TDP:140-88W=52W
System power:205-150W=55W

But 5820 has the same 140W TDP

5820K system = 179W (+29W)
4790K system = 150W

5960X has a 140W TDP, and the 4960X's peak power rating is 130W, but:

TDP is a meaningless metric without real world tests measuring power usage. Comapring TDP between AMD and NV cards is a waste of time. It's like comparing apples to bananas.

So are we talking a 380x paired to some AIO solution that you have to attach to your case? If so, AMD will surely sell these by the truckloads and close the gap with NVIDIA in market share. :sneaky:

Welcome 1 year ago. 500W+ under load at less than 70C.

As quiet as a single 980, quieter than any modern reference blower NV SLI combos. No thermal throttle like blower 980 SLI or Titan Z.

Oh, all of that inside a MiniITX Betfinix Prodigy

"What really intrigues me about the R9 295X2 is its implications for small form factor mini ITX and micro ATX systems with limited expansion slot options. Its ability to exhaust heat outside the chassis’ confines makes it a perfect companion for space-constrained builds" ~ Source

Ya, so contrary to your opinion, a 300W card that runs at 70-73C, has performance close to 970 SLI, and exhausts most of that heat out, would be incredible.

And before you start saying how enthusiasts can't figure out a way to fit a 120mm rad in their case, a basic $130 Corsair Carbide 540 can easily fit a 295X2 + rad + a massive air cooler such as the Thermalright Silver Arrow/Noctua NH-D15, etc.

http://www.techspot.com/review/811-corsair-obsidian-450d-and-carbide-air-540/page5.html

Better yet, NZXT 440 case for $100:

LIQUID COOLING SUPPORT
Radiator Support
Front 2 x 140 or 3 x 120mm (280 or 360mm CPU AIO CLC!)
Top 2 x 140 or 3 x 120mm (Radeon R9 380X GPU #1 + GPU #2)
Rear 1 x 140/120mm (Radeon R9 380X GPU #3)

NZXT easily fits 3 separate radiators and 1200W of heat exhausted out of the case!
Corsair H105 for the CPU
295X2 GPU 1
295X2 GPU 2
http://pcpartpicker.com/b/QkLD4D

If you can't do proper research to find a $100-130 case that can support multiple radiators, then ya $1300-2000 AMD R9 380Xs aren't for you. At AT I am used to helping people find solutions, not say no or stop them from doing something. :thumbsup:

Other PC gamers seem to have no problems figuring out a way to fit 2x 120mm GPU rads + 240mm CPU rad in a case.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-055-_-Product

That means any case with 2x120mm fan holes/openings at the front will work.

As an example, a $100 Corsair Obisidan 450D will should fit dual 120mm rads at the front, leaving room for a CPU AIO at the back.

 

[Silverforce11]

So are we talking a 380x paired to some AIO solution that you have to attach to your case? If so, AMD will surely sell these by the truckloads and close the gap with NVIDIA in market share. :sneaky:

Top tier stuff don't sell in volumes to be the cause of marketshare swings, you know that as well as anyone.

But certainly having a very fast, cool, quiet with blower advantages on a top tier GPU wouldn't do any harm.

 

[RussianSensation]

what's this now?

It means that some people still believe that in a well-ventilated modern case, the blower style flagship GPU will run cooler and quieter than the best after-market open air cooled solutions. It's simply not true. You can take any flagship NV blower card and it will never outperform the MSI Gaming 970/980 in noise levels and temperatures at full load in a well-ventilated case.

 

[5150Joker]

snip

And how well did those AMD cards sell? Did it improve their standing in the market and turn a profit for AMD? Was it a marketing success? I already know the answer so no need for a mile long reply with 100 meaningless graphs from TPU. This can be the quietest and coolest operating GPU in the world with an awesome AIO but it won't gain mindshare or OEM wins and those are things AMD needs desperately. What would help AMD is coming up with a cool efficient card that works on air and can compete against GM200.

 

[RussianSensation]

Top tier stuff don't sell in volumes to be the cause of marketshare swings, you know that as well as anyone.

But certainly having a very fast, cool, quiet with blower advantages on a top tier GPU wouldn't do any harm.

No such product was ever made by anyone that managed to execute on all 3 of these aspects with an air cooled blower design. The last 250W flagship card NV made using their best air reference cooler was the 780Ti:

That's only at 269W peak.

vs.

500W peak 295X2 with 120mm AIO LCL

You know why TPU got 41dBA on the 295X2? Cuz they ran a 500W GPU at 61C.

Now imagine a 300W GPU with the same 120mm rad. No blower solution can compete with that. You yourself know a max overclocked 290/290X can stay at 80C or below max with a single 120mm rad. :awe:

It's already been proven on a 290X max overclocked:

^ There you go, a max overclocked Hybrid WC 290W TDP 290X runs cooler than a reference blower stock 780Ti. Boom!

 

[RussianSensation]

And how well did those AMD cards sell? Did it improve their standing in the market and turn a profit for AMD? Was it a marketing success? I already know the answer so no need for a mile long reply with 100 meaningless graphs from TPU.

What did you expect from a $1499 GPU? How in the world is a 380X's marketing/market success related to a $1500 card?

This can be the quietest and coolest operating GPU in the world with an awesome AIO but it won't gain mindshare or OEM wins and those are things AMD needs desperately.

And you know this how?! I didn't know you already knew the price and performance of the 380X.

What's your point that 300W TDP is a deal breaker against a 250W TDP NV card?

What would help AMD is coming up with a cool efficient card that works on air and can compete against GM200.

Not when the 300W card will run cooler and quieter than GM200 because of AIO CLC. Hybrid WC > stock blower air cooling.

780Ti was not a cool and quiet card. The facts are provided in my post above. AMD will make sure the reference 380X is awesome and for those who hate the idea of AIO CLC, there most likely will be after-market coolers like the Vapor-X and MSI Lightning just like they had them on the 290X.

 

[Silverforce11]

What would help AMD is coming up with a cool efficient card that works on air and can compete against GM200.

Nope, because GM200 competition automatically means enthusiast segment, where volumes are very low and wont dent the marketshare % either way.

If you want to talk about marketshare, you have to focus on the mid-range and below.

You are confusing halo crown parts with marketshare movers.

 

[RussianSensation]

Nope, because GM200 competition automatically means enthusiast segment, where volumes are very low and wont dent the marketshare % either way.

If you want to talk about marketshare, you have to focus on the mid-range and below.

You are confusing halo crown parts with marketshare movers.

Not only that but he assumes that market share moves 1 way for all segments. AMD could gain desktop market share by 5-10% with 300 series but lose 5-10% mobile market share on the laptop/mobile side and result in a net 0 gain or a loss in market share. He would then claim he was right to prove his point that AIO CLC 300W desktop flagship card was a failure. :hmm:

We all know if NV's Titan Z came with a 295X2 AIO CLC solution and 295X2 used the Titan Z's cooler and ran hot and throttled like the Titan Z, the AMD's solution would have been ridiculed. Instead, the 295X2 absolutely stomped the Titan Z in terms of noise levels and temps, but team green remained quiet as to how AMD's engineers outsmarted NV's when it came to choosing the proper cooling solution. The risk paid off and Titan Z was a total failure.

If AMD beats NV to HBM and Hybrid WC, it would be epic since a firm with less resources took major risks to try and lead the market with newest and latest technologies.

 

[Silverforce11]

There's a theory that having the halo crown help with the perception with the rest of the line up, thereby boosting marketshare indirectly.

Whether you agree that's true or not, it certainly did not harm NV to be able to claim the crown for successive generations.

 

[5150Joker]

Not only that but he assumes that market share moves 1 way for all segments. AMD could gain desktop market share by 5-10% with 300 series but lose 5-10% mobile market share on the laptop/mobile side and result in a net 0 gain or a loss in market share. He would then claim he was right to prove his point that AIO CLC 300W desktop flagship card was a failure. :hmm:

We all know if NV's Titan Z came with a 295X2 AIO CLC solution and 295X2 used the Titan Z's cooler and ran hot and throttled like the Titan Z, the AMD's solution would have been ridiculed. Instead, the 295X2 absolutely stomped the Titan Z in terms of noise levels and temps, but team green remained quiet as to how AMD's engineers outsmarted NV's when it came to choosing the proper cooling solution. The risk paid off and Titan Z was a total failure.

If AMD beats NV to HBM and Hybrid WC, it would be epic since a firm with less resources took major risks to try and lead the market with newest and latest technologies.

Did you ever own any of these cards or is your only refuge TPU graphs for everything? I can tell you that the blower on the Titans I had was very quiet during normal operation and even during heavy load at stock clocks. The only time it made perceptible noise is when it was heavily overclocked above stock voltages.

Who cares about Titan Z? It was a very niche product. The 970/980 on the other hand have sold millions and have made NVIDIA tons of money. They also happen to be very cool running, low noise and overclocker friendly cards. The 980's I have are whisper quiet and OC to 1560 MHz on stock voltage and still stay quiet and temps max out at 75-76C under full load while OC'd. That is what gains NVIDIA mindshare and therefore marketshare both in the desktop and notebook segment.

AMD pushing out cards that require AIO isn't a way for them to gain mindshare because it will be viewed as a bruteforce desperate attempt to gain performance over NVIDIA. If GM200 surfaces with an air cooler that also has a leg up on 380X in performance, then that will further cement their lead over AMD. You can try to sugar coat it all you like but AMD needs design wins and greater consumer market penetration, pushing out AIO cards isn't the way to get it. People purchase middle tier cards after seeing how the flagship performs and that performance metric isn't just raw fps, it's everything including power consumption, noise, type of cooling, cost etc. In that regard, AMD failed with 290/290X and one would think they'd learn their lesson with 380X. We'll see how it goes but I seriously hope AIO isn't the path they decide to take and that we see some forward thinking with regards to cooling.

 

[RussianSensation]

There's a theory that having the halo crown help with the perception with the rest of the line up, thereby boosting marketshare indirectly.

Didn't work for 7970 Ghz > 680, 6990 > 590, 7990 > 690, 295X2 > Titan Z/780 Ti SLI.

NV currently charges almost double for a 980 over the 290X for 10-15% more performance. If 380X beats GM200 by 10-15% at $600, GM200 will still outsell it at $700, cuz NV! Are you seeing millions of NV gamers buying R9 290 over 960? Not happening. I'll even go as far as to say if $300 290X were to be 10% faster than a $350 970, the 970 would still outsell it. Do you not remember $500 780 vs. $400 R9 290?!

 

[Silverforce11]

We'll see how it goes but I seriously hope AIO isn't the path they decide to take and that we see some forward thinking with regards to cooling.

If you believe one cooling design is all there is, then you can continue to bag AMD.

I for one, look forward to a water cooled top tier GPU out of the box. I'm pretty sure for users who don't want a 120mm rad, there will be good designs like the Tri-X, Vapor-X and PCS+.

 

[RussianSensation]

If you believe one cooling design is all there is, then you can continue to bag AMD.

I for one, look forward to a water cooled top tier GPU out of the box. I'm pretty sure for users who don't want a 120mm rad, there will be good designs like the Tri-X, Vapor-X and PCS+.

He still hasn't addressed any of my data that shows AIO CLC is superior to any reference blower NV ever made for 250W+ TDP GPUs. Neither did he talk about 980 SLI reference cards throttling as per HardOCP, not the higher temperatures of the 780Ti reference card. He also is 100% sure no one will offer any other custom air cooled solutions for the 380X.

 

[5150Joker]

If you believe one cooling design is all there is, then you can continue to bag AMD.

I for one, look forward to a water cooled top tier GPU out of the box. I'm pretty sure for users who don't want a 120mm rad, there will be good designs like the Tri-X, Vapor-X and PCS+.

A 120mm rad for a single GPU is a sad joke. A very tiny fraction of enthusiasts will buy it but I doubt our very own RS who is campaigning for AIO so hard will even buy one. I'd be shocked if he did really. As someone who frequently upgrades GPUs, I'd never buy one that requires AIO, even if NVIDIA had a GM200 that blew the doors off anything else. If I want a watercooled GPU, I'll use my own setup, not some second tier OEM design.

He still hasn't addressed any of my data that shows AIO CLC is superior to any reference blower NV ever made for 250W+ TDP GPUs. Neither did he talk about 980 SLI reference cards throttling as per HardOCP, not the higher temperatures of the 780Ti reference card. He also is 100% sure no one will offer any other custom air cooled solutions for the 380X.

Doesn't matter if AIO can do a better job cooling or not, it's large and unwieldy for a single GPU solution. As for reference 980 SLI throttling, I can't speak to that since mine are ACX 2.0 and have 0 throttling problems. In fact, nobody I know that owns a 980 (stock blower or otherwise) have experienced throttling. If this were a widespread issue, we'd hear about it, especially from you.

 

[Silverforce11]

So its a problem for YOU, you can't handle a 120mm rad. Okay, now we understood the issue, we can all move along.

 

[5150Joker]

So its a problem for YOU, you can't handle a 120mm rad. Okay, now we understood the issue, we can all move along.

It's something I personally would never consider as an enthusiast who frequently purchases flagship GPUs, not some guy who sits on the sidelines and cheerleads. It reeks of desperation to resort to AIO just to keep up with the competition and I'm sure many others will view it that way. Perception is a strong factor in end sales even if the data supports AIO > air cooled. Now push out a card that is cool, quiet, doesn't eat tons of power and can fit in your PCI-e slot with just an air cooler and you've got a winning design.

If AMD can push out 380X with air cooling that performs just as good as the AIO, then that would be admirable. AMD needs to put effort into their coolers, not be lazy like they were with their 290/290X. Perception is what killed 290/290X sales and the fact that aftermarket coolers like Tri-X came along later didn't matter, the damage was done. Just look at recent 970 events, AMD is almost giving away the 290/290X and people still won't touch them. Similarly a lot of people will likely write off 380X and it's derivatives after seeing AIO in a review, especially if it's competing against an air cooled GM200.

 

[SimianR]

I think they should just release it with an open air design. Once the aftermarket coolers were available for the 290/290X they were a great buy. They should simply offer those options from the get go.

 

[AnandThenMan]

They should simply offer those options from the get go.

Agreed.

 

[tential]

Can't wait for NV to do an AIO cooler for Titan and have it hailed as the single most revolutionary thing to happen to GPUs.

 

[Paul98]

It's something I personally would never consider as an enthusiast who frequently purchases flagship GPUs, not some guy who sits on the sidelines and cheerleads. It reeks of desperation to resort to AIO just to keep up with the competition and I'm sure many others will view it that way. Perception is a strong factor in end sales even if the data supports AIO > air cooled. Now push out a card that is cool, quiet, doesn't eat tons of power and can fit in your PCI-e slot with just an air cooler and you've got a winning design.

If AMD can push out 380X with air cooling that performs just as good as the AIO, then that would be admirable. AMD needs to put effort into their coolers, not be lazy like they were with their 290/290X. Perception is what killed 290/290X sales and the fact that aftermarket coolers like Tri-X came along later didn't matter, the damage was done. Just look at recent 970 events, AMD is almost giving away the 290/290X and people still won't touch them. Similarly a lot of people will likely write off 380X and it's derivatives after seeing AIO in a review, especially if it's competing against an air cooled GM200.

It has a great cooler, so you won't buy it because it sucks? This just makes no sense.

I would love to buy a card with such a cooler.

 

[Elfear]

It has a great cooler, so you won't buy it because it sucks? This just makes no sense.

I would love to buy a card with such a cooler.

+1

I love having watercooled cards because they are almost imperceptibly quiet and overclock like crazy. I think it's a great move on AMD's part to have AIO coolers as the reference design. Card manufacturers will almost certainly have air-cooled solutions for those that don't want an AIO card.

 

[stuff_me_good]

Did I really read correctly!!?? Some people here are actually bitching about better cooling solution for high end GPU out of the box? I've been hoping something like this for years now and this is awesome, but I guess not everyone are happy about progress?

I can understand if there is fear of pricing going out of hand since it cannot be as cheap as air cooling, but since we are talking about amd here it's not going to get out of hand like it would when nvidia has been forced to do the same move. Also I can understand if you have chassis space issue, but that doesn't seem to be the case since russiansensation already showed that it can fit even ITX case. So what is the "real" problem? Your brain just doesn't compute and you are afraid of change? I thing it's even more sad that there are so many people in this world who are afraid of any change and like to live in their safe little bubble.

 

[garagisti]

AMD will be laughing their ass off when they read this thread. So water cooling is desperate, and here i was working under the assumption that it is just superior.

 

[iiiankiii]

It's something I personally would never consider as an enthusiast who frequently purchases flagship GPUs, not some guy who sits on the sidelines and cheerleads. It reeks of desperation to resort to AIO just to keep up with the competition and I'm sure many others will view it that way. Perception is a strong factor in end sales even if the data supports AIO > air cooled. Now push out a card that is cool, quiet, doesn't eat tons of power and can fit in your PCI-e slot with just an air cooler and you've got a winning design.

If AMD can push out 380X with air cooling that performs just as good as the AIO, then that would be admirable. AMD needs to put effort into their coolers, not be lazy like they were with their 290/290X. Perception is what killed 290/290X sales and the fact that aftermarket coolers like Tri-X came along later didn't matter, the damage was done. Just look at recent 970 events, AMD is almost giving away the 290/290X and people still won't touch them. Similarly a lot of people will likely write off 380X and it's derivatives after seeing AIO in a review, especially if it's competing against an air cooled GM200.

Bro, you water cool your CPU but it ain't okay for a GPU? If anything, GPUs need it more than CPUs nowadays. Most people I talk to perceives aio as superior and more attractive. You're just different. But, you wouldn't touch amd, regardless. So why bother, right?