[Sweclockers]Geforce GTX 870 and GTX 880 coming this fall

[Cloudfire777]

I know Swedish so I will translate manually instead of using google translate.
Pretty interesting stuff

New generation graphic card in the geforce series will come when Nvidia release the high end cards with Maxwell architecture. Launch will happen in Q4

There was no 20nm cards when Nvidia launched the first graphic card in the Maxwell architecture, which explains why GTX 750 and GTX 750 Ti was placed in the 700 series.

This fall however, things will change, when Nvidia will launch the high end Maxwell cards. Sources within OEMs now explains to Sweclockers that Nvidia have informed them that the launch of GTX 880 and 870 will happen in Q4 this year, most likely in October or November

The upcoming cards mark the start of the 800-series for desktop machines. Despite new cards, they will still be based on 28nm

The internet is filled with speculations and no details about the specifications have been posted. GTX 870 and GTX 880 will most likely be based on the GM204, the successor of GK104. The chip will be based on 2nd generation Maxwell and will contain more news than just higher performance.

http://www.sweclockers.com/nyhet/18948-geforce-gtx-880-och-gtx-870-med-maxwell-anlander-till-hosten

 

[blastingcap]

Thanks, nothing unexpected. We knew months ago from financial analyst calls that GeForce/Radeon would stick to 28nm for the rest of the calendar year for NV and AMD. GTX 750 Ti already showed us power efficiency improvements. The "more news than just higher performance" could mean anything, even something like planned DX12 support. IIRC stacked RAM wouldn't be till Volta or something, though.

 

[Grooveriding]

Pretty yawn-worthy. Still 28nm, so maybe 20% more over a 780ti. Will they even cost less ? My guess is yes; $400 and $500 prices with unremarkable new performance levels, but marketed on cheaper pricing than the outgoing 780 cards.

I am skipping a generation for once, it's just not worth it upgrading to these little in between bumps. Maybe we'll get lucky and AMD will do 20nm early 2015 for their next generation.

5960X, X99 and DDR4 are coming in the fall, so at least that is exciting.

 

[Cloudfire777]

I guess they had to just do the small chips in 28nm because of the chip size increase.
Then wait for 20nm high end to be able to build big chips.

But looking at the speculations lately about GM204 and Zauba.com where we saw samples shipping back and forth, kinda funny that this chip was not GTX 880 after all

But it makes recent rumors pretty plausible:
That GTX 880 will be cheaper than GTX 700 series. GM206 will probably be a very small chip vs GTX 780 Ti, so it will be cheaper.

 

[wand3r3r]

... will contain more news than just higher performance.

Wake me up when they have performance. You know the performance will be pitiful when they are deflecting to perf/w or other metrics!

I don't care if I save 100w, I want more performance period. I really suspect the 780/ti (290/x) users will have nothing to upgrade to with the mid-range maxwell coming out as 880 and likely at full size prices.

Boring...

Pretty yawn-worthy. Still 28nm, so maybe 20% more over a 780ti. Will they even cost less ? My guess is yes; $400 and $500 prices with unremarkable new performance levels, but marketed on cheaper pricing than the outgoing 780 cards.

I am skipping a generation for once, it's just not worth it upgrading to these little in between bumps. Maybe we'll get lucky and AMD will do 20nm early 2015 for their next generation.

5960X, X99 and DDR4 are coming in the fall, so at least that is exciting.

Skipping a generation? I assume you mean the "880" which is the maxwell mid-range priced at high end, but the "980" full maxwell may be more interesting.

Provided they overclock etc. and have decent clock speeds x99 may be interesting but I suspect Intel will barely milk out another pitiful performance increase.

 

[Saylick]

If the 880 GTX is going to be based on GM206, what the heck is GM204 then? 550 mm^2 Maxwell die on 28 nm? What about GM100 then? Would that be the true 20-nm successor to GK110?

I could just imagine the GM206 performing at 780TI levels for $450 only for the GM204 to be launched for >$600 with 780TI +%30 performance. Finally, by the time GM100 launches, we'd already be conditioned to accept that $500 is a worthy price to pay for mid-range offerings and >$600 for the high-end.

I, too, think that I might have to start treating the purchase of GPUs as if I were buying new CPUs. The year-to-year improvements aren't large enough to justify paying full price for a "brand-new" chip. Sandy Bridge is still kicking perfectly fine after all these years; wouldn't be surprised if it starts happening on the GPU front sometime in the immediate future...

 

[Cloudfire777]

This means that GTX 870 and GTX 880 is 192bit. Atleast big chances for it.
Kinda continues what Nvidia did woth GTX 750Ti which was 128bit. It match a 192bit GK106 thanks to L2 cache. Since Sweclockers write that not just performance is new with GM206, Im thinking bigger L2 cache is part of that...

Power efficiency is probably important here as well. Question is how the performance will be or if they focus more on power efficiency...

 

[Mand]

I'm still not convinced of 28nm for 800 series. They've had 28nm Maxwell for months now, on a low-power card aimed at testing out the architecture on an established node.

It makes no sense to me that they wouldn't use 20nm, whenever 800 series shows up. Especially since all we have to go on is vague press releases from TSMC that people somehow are reading far more into than is what is actually there.

 

[3DVagabond]

The graphics industry is unusual. The hardware companies control the software companies. Now they are taking over the API. They control every aspect. They will manipulate the industry to suit their needs and make their offerings look good.

So, GM206 is going to be the 880? If that's still the 3rd chip in the stack, it'll be interesting to see pricing. My guess is $500. That leaves them room for a $700 and $1000 card like the have now. Get used to paying $1000 for what used to be $500 just a couple of generations ago.

 

[wand3r3r]

What current card is the gm206 replacing?

It has to be the 680/770 successor, if it's yet another tier down released as high end, prepare to be fleeced.

 

[Cloudfire777]

According to Sweclockers, GM206 is replacing GK104 whatever that means.
So yup, it is a GTX 680 successor.

 

[Majcric]

I was ready to buy 880 if it was GM204. Now I'm not so sure. Nvidia should do a gm206 for 870 and gm204 for 880. 3rd chip from the top does not sound good at all.

 

[Cloudfire777]

ATTENTION: Forget about GM206.
Sweclockers have apparantly written wrong earlier today. They have updated the article.

Även om nätet är överfylld av spekulationer är inga mer ingående detaljer kända. Geforce GTX 880 och GTX 870 tros baseras på den nya grafikprocessorn GM204, efterträdaren till dagens GK104. Kretsen sägs utgöra den "andra generationens" Maxwell och antyds således innehålla fler nyheter än högre prestanda.

The internet is filled with speculations and no details about the specifications have been posted. GTX 870 and GTX 880 will most likely be based on the GM204, the successor of GK104. The chip will be based on 2nd generation Maxwell and will contain more news than just higher performance.

 

[SlickR12345]

If the 880 GTX is going to be based on GM206, what the heck is GM204 then? 550 mm^2 Maxwell die on 28 nm? What about GM100 then? Would that be the true 20-nm successor to GK110?

I could just imagine the GM206 performing at 780TI levels for $450 only for the GM204 to be launched for >$600 with 780TI +%30 performance. Finally, by the time GM100 launches, we'd already be conditioned to accept that $500 is a worthy price to pay for mid-range offerings and >$600 for the high-end.

I, too, think that I might have to start treating the purchase of GPUs as if I were buying new CPUs. The year-to-year improvements aren't large enough to justify paying full price for a "brand-new" chip. Sandy Bridge is still kicking perfectly fine after all these years; wouldn't be surprised if it starts happening on the GPU front sometime in the immediate future...

They pretty much never were. I mean the biggest shift was when AMD came out with the 9000 series in the early 2000's I believe, the next big shift was when Nvidia released the 200 series and then when AMD released the 5000 series and Nvidia the 400 series.

Those were the 3 times we actually major shifts and the new generation graphics really were 50%+ faster than their older counter parts.

Every other time the performance has been 25% and less between generations and not worth upgrading year over year.

 

[tviceman]

It'll be interesting to see if Nvidia and AMD just skip 20nm altogether. Maxwell is clearly way more efficient than Kepler, but it'll still take more than 32 ROP's on 28nm to overcome GK110, unless the ROP's have been considerably beefed up.

 

[ShintaiDK]

It'll be interesting to see if Nvidia and AMD just skip 20nm altogether.

And go for what? 20nm with FF in 2016 for lower power targets? 20nm planar may be the last node for dGPUs.

 

[blastingcap]

And go for what? 20nm with FF in 2016 for lower power targets? 20nm planar may be the last node for dGPUs.

Rumor is that 20nm doesn't meet their needs so they are going straight to 14 or 16nm which is basically 20nm with finfets like yous aid

 

[KaRLiToS]

28nm ??

 

[Keysplayr]

28nm ??

As long as it's faster, cheaper and more power efficient, what do you care?
28nm means nothing. It's what you can do with it that matters. Like anything else.
I'd rather them take on 28nm for the second round than to rush a borked 20nm TSMC nightmare.

 

[Rezist]

As long as it's faster, cheaper and more power efficient, what do you care?
28nm means nothing. It's what you can do with it that matters. Like anything else.
I'd rather them take on 28nm for the second round than to rush a borked 20nm TSMC nightmare.

Typically node refreshes don't do much unless something was wrong to begin with.

 

[NostaSeronx]

That is interesting... but untrue in many cases.

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/mushafik-mohideen/11/b9b/7bb
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/david-guan/0/806/554
http://www.linkedin.com/in/spencergold <-- (This one is pretty condemning for AMD)
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/madan-mohan/15/7a9/b17
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/yuvaraj-sandu-veera/2a/5a8/484
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/charlie-zhai/6/58a/649
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/mozammel-khan/8/2b7/aa8
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/tanuja-undevalli/58/5b1/b82

The more I find, the more I'll update okay.

 

[Headfoot]

They pretty much never were. I mean the biggest shift was when AMD came out with the 9000 series in the early 2000's I believe, the next big shift was when Nvidia released the 200 series and then when AMD released the 5000 series and Nvidia the 400 series.

Those were the 3 times we actually major shifts and the new generation graphics really were 50%+ faster than their older counter parts.

Every other time the performance has been 25% and less between generations and not worth upgrading year over year.

Lolwut

If you forget the 8800 GTX in a list like that I can't take the rest of it seriously...

 

[Cloudfire777]

I`m convinced that this is close to what will happen between the two companies:

- GM107 Maxwell released. GTX 750 Ti in February 2014.
- AMD have to resond, does that with Tonga in September 2014, a vastly more efficient chip than GCN1.0. R9 275X and R9 M295X, both Tonga and 28nm.
- Nvidia counter with GM204, GTX 870 and GTX 880. Both 28nm. Releases in October 2014.
- AMD fires out Pirate Islands, the first high end chip with 20nm and maybe HBM. Releases in December/January.
- Nvidia puts out the first 20nm Maxwell, GM210, January or February 2015.

 

[amenx]

They pretty much never were. I mean the biggest shift was when AMD came out with the 9000 series in the early 2000's I believe, the next big shift was when Nvidia released the 200 series and then when AMD released the 5000 series and Nvidia the 400 series.

Those were the 3 times we actually major shifts and the new generation graphics really were 50%+ faster than their older counter parts.

Every other time the performance has been 25% and less between generations and not worth upgrading year over year.

I would not have counted the 200 and 400 series, but rather these:

(2004) 6800gt vs 5950 ultra, 9800 Pro (higher than 50% improvement)

http://www.anandtech.com/show/1383/7

(2006) 8800gtx vs 7900gtx - much higher than 50%

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2116/22

The 8800 was probably Nvidias most significant release in last 10 years.

 

[wand3r3r]

I`m convinced that this is close to what will happen between the two companies:

- GM107 Maxwell released. GTX 750 Ti in February 2014.
- AMD have to resond, does that with Tonga in September 2014, a vastly more efficient chip than GCN1.0. R9 275X and R9 M295X, both Tonga and 28nm.
- Nvidia counter with GM204, GTX 870 and GTX 880. Both 28nm. Releases in October 2014.
- AMD fires out Pirate Islands, the first high end chip with 20nm and maybe HBM. Releases in December/January.
- Nvidia puts out the first 20nm Maxwell, GM210, January or February 2015.

I doubt they will release 880 "mid range" overpriced cards as high end only to release full high end cards in 3 months as 980. Either 880 midrange isn't actually released as an 880 (an 860 or so), or they will milk out the 880 buyers for as long as possible not just for three months as the expensive high end.