SweClockers: Geforce GTX 590 burns @ 772MHz & 1.025V

[Outrage]

When you can buy a card from amd you could start worry about the warrenty amd offers for there cards.

 

[notty22]

IMO
The disclaimer,detailed warning is a reflection on the reference design.
People that believe one design is bullet proof and another is not, at these levels of potential power usage are mistaken.
*given the vast amount of variables including , temperatures, other pc components, user skill level .

 

[GaiaHunter]

XFX is the only manufacturer to offer warranty on the 6990 OC mode, but shall any other part of the system that got killed due to OC, you are screwed as the act of OC and running things off spec voids warranties. If you are still arguing, than don't even think of overclocking. There is a gap between default and spec, and OC lays inside this zone. Fail to understand or see this zone means you are likely to kill your PC. Consider yourself LUCKY if the video card is the only thing that got killed. I personally have seen PSU breathing fire, funny color smokes, resistor popping out of the circuit like a rocket, etc etc.

And at least powercolor as well.

And of course AMD also states OCing using the overdrive utility voids warranty but then companies like sapphire cover it.

 

[railven]

Round up:
Some believe that VRM used on 590 is problematic. This theory was supported by, a) hot temp, b)Nvidia cheated by reporting the temp of cores, and c)590 dies upon improper OC.
Well, the first 2 claims was clearly busted, although some may still believe other wise after a clear example of the existence of a HDD fan when the IR graph of 6990 was taken.

Wow, way to ignore all the points by various posters and related links only to pass your opinion as factual. Why not mention the improper use of a factual physics theory? It was stressed that it was fact, for reason, unfortunately facts only work when used in proper context.

 

[Keysplayr]

Thanks guys for the cliffs. But it's still unclear what is trying to be proven, or disproven? If anything? Or are these discussions just speculative and interesting to some? Please, nobody read into this too much, I'm only just curious.

 

[thilanliyan]

Thanks guys for the cliffs. But it's still unclear what is trying to be proven, or disproven? If anything? Or are these discussions just speculative and interesting to some? Please, nobody read into this too much, I'm only just curious.

AtenRa is trying to prove there is an "extra" fan being used at the front in the 6990 system in which the thermal images were taken. Pretty much everyone has shown that the cooler temperature is explained by the different coolers used on the cards, and that his use of Bernoulli's principle in this case is flawed.

 

[zebrax2]

Thanks guys for the cliffs. But it's still unclear what is trying to be proven, or disproven? If anything? Or are these discussions just speculative and interesting to some? Please, nobody read into this too much, I'm only just curious.

It is interesting and at the same time helps in determining if the 590 is a worthy card to recommend versus the 6990. Finding the reason for the failure also helps the potential buyers in determining which design should they buy (is the stock design enough or would paying for a premium for custom design better)

 

[Keysplayr]

AtenRa is trying to prove there is an "extra" fan being used at the front in the 6990 system in which the thermal images were taken. Pretty much everyone has shown that the cooler temperature is explained by the different coolers used on the cards, and that his use of Bernoulli's principle in this case is flawed.

Different coolers? Isn't the difference in the type of air mover used? AMD uses a blower and Nvidia uses an impeller. Both designs utilize two separate vapor chambers on either side of the fan. IMHO, you couldn't have a more similar cooling solution even if you planned it to be beside the actual air mover used.

 

[kevinsbane]

Different coolers? Isn't the difference in the type of air mover used? AMD uses a blower and Nvidia uses an impeller. Both designs utilize two separate vapor chambers on either side of the fan. IMHO, you couldn't have a more similar cooling solution even if you planned it to be beside the actual air mover used.

Technically, they both use impellers, so in that sense, they're even more similar. Someone pointed out that the GTX seems run hotter and make the case hotter even though it draws less power than a GTX 590, and having such similar cooling solutions. I guess this is where the sense that the discussion of how they were different came about.

 

[thilanliyan]

Different coolers? Isn't the difference in the type of air mover used? AMD uses a blower and Nvidia uses an impeller. Both designs utilize two separate vapor chambers on either side of the fan. IMHO, you couldn't have a more similar cooling solution even if you planned it to be beside the actual air mover used.

I was including the fan when I said cooler (otherwise I would have said heatsink). Regardless, the size of the heatsinks are different, the vents are different, and the fans are different. If you want to go more indepth, read the last couple of pages as to why the venting characteristics of the two cards will be different (and so explains the temperature differences at the front of the case in those thermal images).

 

[taltamir]

Yeah, I didn't read the last few pages either. So what's the subject of the conversation guys? It's kind of a blur.

I am not sure, looks like the "feeding frenzy" died out since that techreport debunked all the FUD.

The one thing they didn't address was the 2 instances of people claiming to have had a card blow up on them without OC.
But with all the false info presented before that... who knows.

 

[Arkadrel]

WHAT!? 590 dieing on reviewers/users!? non-sense,.. they must have used wrong drivers (ones that came with the card in the retail box!) and overclocked their cards! its their own fault, they shouldnt have overclocked them in the first place!

*sweeps a 590 under the rug, while whistling innocently*

 

[Keysplayr]

WHAT!? 590 dieing on reviewers/users!? non-sense,.. they must have used wrong drivers (ones that came with the card in the retail box!) and overclocked their cards! its their own fault, they shouldnt have overclocked them in the first place!

*sweeps a 590 under the rug, while whistling innocently*

Whatever it is you're doing, please stop.

 

[railven]

I am not sure, looks like the "feeding frenzy" died out since that techreport debunked all the FUD.

The one thing they didn't address was the 2 instances of people claiming to have had a card blow up on them without OC.
But with all the false info presented before that... who knows.

I'd say it was more the week vacation the more vocal poster got that diffused the "feeding frenzy."

Some of the arguements used on the subject have been very interesting and based in good science. Both IDC and that PM user (PM81?) have degrees in engineering and their input, while speculative, has more weight than random forum guys and misused factual science.

The GTX 590 has issues, what the issues are might not be known. I think the 3560 RRoD fiasco was a good comparative. Let's just hope it isn't that bad.

For the mean time, I will continue to provoke my girlfriend with "OMG your nvidia is going to blow up!" haha.

 

[taltamir]

I'd say it was more the week vacation the more vocal poster got that diffused the "feeding frenzy."

No, I said feeding frenzy because dozens of users came in one after another to voice every increasing displeasure. With new users being stoked into ever greater crescendo of outrage by the posts and claims of their predecessors.

Some of the arguements used on the subject have been very interesting and based in good science. Both IDC and that PM user (PM81?) have degrees in engineering and their input, while speculative, has more weight than random forum guys and misused factual science.

Not every single poster was part of the frenzy.

The GTX 590 has issues, what the issues are might not be known. I think the 3560 RRoD fiasco was a good comparative. Let's just hope it isn't that bad.

For the mean time, I will continue to provoke my girlfriend with "OMG your nvidia is going to blow up!" haha.

Yes, even if a stock GTX590 isn't going to explode, I will not be recommending it to people. I am concerned about the long term reliability of a card this close to the edge (... amusingly, nvidia has a history of redlining cards and making cards that fail in large numbers)

 

[railven]

No, I said feeding frenzy because dozens of users came in one after another to voice every increasing displeasure. With new users being stoked into ever greater crescendo of outrage by the posts and claims of their predecessors.

My apologies, I was understanding as the events of the local scene. I don't frequent as many other forums as much anymore (unless trouble shooting) so I was just going by what was happening here.

Not every single poster was part of the frenzy.

Yes, even if a stock GTX590 isn't going to explode, I will not be recommending it to people. I am concerned about the long term reliability of a card this close to the edge (... amusingly, nvidia has a history of redlining cards and making cards that fail in large numbers)

I was lucky enough (well the GF) to get a 9800 GTX+ that gave us no issues. Her laptop wasn't as fortunate. For all the fanfare the GTX 460 got around these parts, I'm not sure if it is the driver team or what, we've gone through two cards that have given her nothing but headache. From random Driver Stopped Responding errors to odd performance drops in certain games. It works I'd guess 95% of the time. So the trade off is her random hiccups versus my 5870's filtering issues haha.

 

[AtenRa]

Im sorry if some of you cant understand it but when one GPU chip or any chip consumes more power it will generate more heat. That heat will not magically disappear in thin air, it will be transferred through the heatsink and the fan outside of the card and in HD6990 case, the right GPU chip (the one next to the 8-pins 12V) will exhaust that heat inside the case.

Because the HD6990 @ 450W produces more heat than the default GTX590, the front side of the PC case where the HD6990 exhaust all that heat it had to have a higher temperature than the GTX590.

I will ask you people to see the bellow pictures and tell me why the HD6990 has a temperature (color) variation (Arrows) at the two edges. Don’t forget that the heatsink is at exactly that spot and the temperature at the end of the card (after the 8-pins) is much lower than the temperature in the other side of the card (back panel).

Don’t forget that the card extent beyond the metal for the HDDs (Blue color) and goes half way below the HHD. You know what I believe, do you guys have a different explanation??

HD6990

HD6990@375W

HD6990@450W

And GTX590

Source:
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/747-22/maj-dossier-cartes-graphiques-degagement-thermique.html

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/825-4/dossier-nvidia-repond-amd-avec-geforce-gtx-590.html

 

[railven]

Im sorry if some of you cant understand it but when one GPU chip or any chip consumes more power it will generate more heat. That heat will not magically disappear in thin air, it will be transferred through the heatsink and the fan outside of the card and in HD6990 case, the right GPU chip (the one next to the 8-pins 12V) will exhaust that heat inside the case.

Because the HD6990 @ 450W produces more heat than the default GTX590, the front side of the PC case where the HD6990 exhaust all that heat it had to have a higher temperature than the GTX590.

I will ask you people to see the bellow pictures and tell me why the HD6990 has a temperature (color) variation (Arrows) at the two edges. Don’t forget that the heatsink is at exactly that spot and the temperature at the end of the card (after the 8-pins) is much lower than the temperature in the other side of the card (back panel).

Don’t forget that the card extent beyond the metal for the HDDs (Blue color) and goes half way below the HHD. You know what I believe, do you guys have a different explanation??

HD6990

HD6990@375W

HD6990@450W

And GTX590

Source:
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/747-22/maj-dossier-cartes-graphiques-degagement-thermique.html

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/825-4/dossier-nvidia-repond-amd-avec-geforce-gtx-590.html

And you aren't taking into consideration air flow. Here, I will again break your theory:

Through noise levels and linked Anandtech benches we can conclude:
A) the 6990 fan is more effective at cooling the GPUs, counter with bigger heat sinks or better air flow - one of the two must be true if not both
B) the 6990 fan produces more sound, through mechanics/design or through sheer effort, which of the two is the missing link to make my argument factual. Is it pushing more air because it is spinning faster as a result more noise? I don't know, and frankly I'm too lazy to look up the CFM numbers (if they've been documented.)

So, with that said, I'll argue that the 6990 is indeed moving more air. The force of the card relative to its length could easily force the hot air from the rear vent directly outside the case through the front.

The card is drawing in air faster thus it maintains a cooler ambient temperature below it as illustrated in both pictures, and of course the 450W is warmer due to more heat, but as Anandtech showed the fan also increases in speed and sound.

You've yet to provide any solid evidence of your theory except a small blurb of blue. Got any other scientific facts to misuse?

 

[AtenRa]

@ railven

Just because a fan makes more noise doesn’t mean it always produces more air flow.
Since you don’t have the CFM numbers I will discard your theory until you can prove it (and be more polite).

 

[Outrage]

Ofcourse the fan on the radeon is moving more air, it consumes more energy but still keeps the card cooler. The radeon card just have to put a tiny little more air out of the case vs the nvidia card to keep the case temp lower then nvidia.

 

[AtenRa]

Ofcourse the fans on the radeon is moving more air, it consumes more energy but still keeps the card cooler. The radeon card just have to put a tiny little more air out of the case vs the nvidia card to keep the case temp lower then nvidia.

No, from the same Review the HD6990@450W is not cooler than the GTX590. The core temps of the GF110 in the GTX590 are 80 and 84 degrees Celcium when HD6990@450W cores temp are at 96 Degrees C (Pic bellow)

GTX590 Core temps

Note that these pictures using a scale suited to the comparison of a wide range of graphics cards but smooth results beyond 80 ° C. Voici le même cliché mais avec une échelle différente qui permet de mieux représenter les différences entre les hautes températures : Here's the same shot but with a different scale to better represent the differences between the high temperatures:

http://translate.google.gr/translat...r-nvidia-repond-amd-avec-geforce-gtx-590.html

 

[MrK6]

A couple of points to make (again, just skimmed through most of this):

-AMD won't warranty the 450W mode because it's running beyond PCIe specs. Even if it's guaranteed to run perfectly fine due to the components they selected, it opens up a whole can of worms trying to warranty it, so they won't. That's business.

-I think people are most concerned over the the GTX 590's dying at stock. A couple of users over at [H] bought the cards and they've died running stock settings while playing games. Others promptly returned or sold their GTX 590's, so there's no more data on the group.

-The temperature is kind of irrelevant as long the card runs fine.

 

[GaiaHunter]

Im sorry if some of you cant understand it but when one GPU chip or any chip consumes more power it will generate more heat. That heat will not magically disappear in thin air, it will be transferred through the heatsink and the fan outside of the card and in HD6990 case, the right GPU chip (the one next to the 8-pins 12V) will exhaust that heat inside the case.

What you fail to understand is that the case isn't an isolated system.

While the heat won't magically disappear it will go in to the room.

And are you trying to tell me it is not possible to move more air out at a faster or slower rate?

Anyone can see that by increasing or decreasing the fan speeds you can indeed move air in or out at a slower rate.

Again, it is only a part of the case that is indeed cooler.

Again the 6990 is LONGER than the GTX590 -> The front part of the 6990 will be closer to the front of the case. Even without a fan there, air will be sucked in and get into contact with the card, making the extremity of the card cooler.

Look at basic heatsinks and heatpipes designs -> they all try to have a larger surface area.

 

[AtenRa]

I know the difference the two fan designs have and were one is better than the other. I know how heat transfer works, all im saying is that HD6990 could move a larger air volume or it could not, we don’t know that and im not yet convinced by this analysis.

Edit: Im talking about the difference of heat/temperature variation ON the card and not in the front of the case

 

[Keysplayr]

I think the thermal imaging should be redone by an independent third party.
There is way too much open for debate from these particular images. For example, we do not know if there was a HDD enclosure fan (whether it was running or not. Not enough information was given or they're just not saying. IMHO, it would behoove the reviewer to disclose even the most minute details when conducting ANY review. It leaves next to nothing to be questioned and satisfies most readers when that thorough.