[Sweclockers] AMD Zen coming in Q3 2016, will be on 14 nm

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Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
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ShintaiDK said:
So you say all the other companies that increase their R&D budgets, unlike AMD who cuts it is wrong. Just because you found something on a site in relation to efficiency improvement?

Riiiiiiiight.
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They increase their spending because they lack the necessary IP..

How much money is necessary to get the IP and expertise that AMD has currently on GPUs and CPUs.?.

Just look at Intel that did throw billions in GPU RD just to end with barely 50% perf/Watt of AMD s IGPs despite those latter being a node late.
 
M

mrmt

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2012
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Fjodor2001 said:
And your point with that wild-ass-guess-with-no-evidence-to-back-it-up-statement was exactly what? o_O

Do you also have benchmarks of AMD's Zen 14 nm server CPUs?
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Unless AMD found a way to make their R&D engineers to work 15% better, they will have to either scrap or scale back something, and guess what, there isn't much they can scrap right now.
 
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krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,956
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JDG1980 said:
Server CPUs are where the big profit margins are. If Zen is a competitive architecture, then focusing on regaining lost server market share first makes sense - especially if yields at 14nm are low at first. In my opinion, this is actually good news - it means that AMD is optimistic about Zen's performance.
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Or its just all spin and diversion tactics and zen is 2w per core on 14nm :)
I have a hard time beliewing fat fpu and 512 avx until its nearly there.
 
Arachnotronic

Arachnotronic

Lifer
Mar 10, 2006
11,715
2,012
126
Abwx said:
They increase their spending because they lack the necessary IP..

How much money is necessary to get the IP and expertise that AMD has currently on GPUs and CPUs.?.

Just look at Intel that did throw billions in GPU RD just to end with barely 50% perf/Watt of AMD s IGPs despite those latter being a node late.
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Did you seriously just imply that Intel lacks expertise in CPUs that AMD has?
 
A

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
12,000
4,954
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Arachnotronic said:
Did you seriously just imply that Intel lacks expertise in CPUs that AMD has?
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Yet i was clear on my post, what i said is that Intel has not AMD s expertise in matter of GPUs, you surely noticed that i didnt mention any specific firm CPU wise but i said that AMD has superior IP in this domain compared to most firms.

krumme said:
That is what he did.
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Best is to ask the messenger.
 
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Arachnotronic

Arachnotronic

Lifer
Mar 10, 2006
11,715
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Abwx said:
Yet i was clear on my post, what i said is that Intel has not AMD s expertise in matter of GPUs, you surely noticed that i didnt mention any specific firm CPU wise but i said that AMD has superior IP in this domain compared to most firms.
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No argument there on either point. Thanks for the clarification.
 
A

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
12,000
4,954
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Arachnotronic said:
No argument there on either point. Thanks for the clarification.
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Who has a better GPU tech than AMD.?..

CPU wise who has as much IP than AMD set apart Intel.?

Could you point me another firm that is capable of designing and validating X86 CPUs set apart Intel.?.


And in one year they ll have an in house high perfs ARM design, wich wont be the case of Intel...

If you want to be credible in your own papers you should abandon the Intel stock holder point of view, a safe view of a firm capabilities require that you dont have a bias against this firm, and since you are a public character you should be much more cautious in your analysis, i guess that you are indeed not as bearish/bullish when it comes to post your views at the Mfool.
 
Arachnotronic

Arachnotronic

Lifer
Mar 10, 2006
11,715
2,012
126
Abwx said:
Who has a better GPU tech than AMD.?..

CPU wise who has as much IP than AMD set apart Intel.?

Could you point me another firm that is capable of designing and validating X86 CPUs set apart Intel.?.
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Perhaps I wasn't clear: I said that I agree with you and then thanked you for clarifying your statement, which I had originally misunderstood :)
 
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A

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
12,000
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Arachnotronic said:
Perhaps I wasn't clear: I said that I agree with you and then thanked you for clarifying your statement, which I had originally misunderstood :)
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Ok, sorry for my misunderstanding of your misunderstanding..:)

Guess that the usualy confrontational exchanges (not talking of you, Ashraf) did take its toll in my interpretation of your sayings..
 
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MiddleOfTheRoad

Golden Member
Aug 6, 2014
1,123
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Abwx said:
Could you point me another firm that is capable of designing and validating X86 CPUs set apart Intel.?.
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Technically, VIA can also do it -- but I don't think they do it as well as AMD. It is a little funny that people complain about FX performance -- Maybe you should try gaming on a Via QuadCore Isaiah chip? I think even the Intel fanboys would appreciate AMD hardware a little more if they ran a Via CPU for a week.

(Disclaimer: I do own a jetway motherboard with a Via Nano.... So I'm not hating on Via.) But an FX 8350 is an absolute rocket ship compared to any CPU that Via has manufactured. Via does have a decent niche in embedded, though.
 
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Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
12,000
4,954
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MiddleOfTheRoad said:
Technically, VIA can also do it -- but I don't think they do it as well as AMD. It is a little funny that people complain about FX performance -- Maybe you should try gaming on a Via QuadCore Isaiah chip? I think even the Intel fanboys would appreciate AMD hardware a little more if they ran a Via CPU for a week.

(Disclaimer: I do own a jetway motherboard with a Via Nano.... So I'm not hating on Via.) But an FX 8350 is an absolute rocket ship compared to any CPU that Via has manufactured. Via does have a decent niche in embedded, though.
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You are right, i completely forgot them, whatever the extent of their capabilities in competitivness they are also a X86 player...:)
 
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Fjodor2001

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2010
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mrmt said:
Unless AMD found a way to make their R&D engineers to work 15% better, they will have to either scrap or scale back something, and guess what, there isn't much they can scrap right now.
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The tiny ARM company was able to grab practically all of the mobile phone and tablet market segment (Yes, Quacomm and Apple have made their own ARM cores, but they are based on ARM too). Before the smart phone boom ARM was even more tiny. By your logic this turn out should not be possible.
 
ShintaiDK

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
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ARM wasnt so tiny before the smartphone boom. Remember they was in all previous phones as well and plenty of other devices. Not sure how anyone can compare that to AMD.

arm_slide_4.png
 
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Fjodor2001

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2010
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So to sum it up: ARM went from $1.2B market cap by the end of 2008 to $16.05B as of today (check the link in my previous post).

And ARM managed to capture more or less the complete mobile phone and tablet segment. A segment that Intel has been trying desperately for years to enter without succeeding, and is currently losing over $4B a year in(!). That's more than 3x the total market cap of ARM in 2008, that Intel is losing per year only in that segment!!

Now please tell us how this is possible, if the size of the R&D budget is all that matters?
 
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ShintaiDK

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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ARM already lost 25% of the tablet segment.

Market cap and revenue is 2 different entries. So despite changing the goalpost ARM didnt change much in terms of growth rate with smartphones. ARM was already successful unlike AMD. It was simply an evolution for them. Increased royalty prices are their current main revenue growth. Not to mention 12 billion ARM chips are sold in 2014. Giving less royalty revenue than AMD already got. Or not even half of the x86 MPU revenue from all its makers. Or you could say 60 ARM chips got the revenue that 1 x86 holds.

http://ir.arm.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=197211&p=irol-reportsannual

And yes, R&D matters.
 
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K

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,956
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Fjodor2001 said:
So to sum it up: ARM went from $1.2B market cap by the end of 2008 to $16.05B as of today (check the link in my previous post).

And ARM managed to capture more or less the complete mobile phone and tablet segment. A segment that Intel has been trying desperately for years to enter without succeeding, and is currently losing over $4B a year in(!). That's more than 3x the total market cap of ARM in 2008, that Intel is losing per year only in that segment!!

Now please tell us how this is possible, if the size of the R&D budget is all that matters?
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Ofcource there is a lot others that matters. But for arm it was hardly anything inside the company that changed market cap but the rise of mobile market.
 
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Exophase

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2012
4,439
9
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Abwx said:
Look to be legacy X86 486DX like CPUs, wich is no more covered by patents, but this limit the instruction set to what was available 20 years ago, seems that most advanced are limited to MMX, and 32 bit, for this reason.
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It's not a 486, it's a descendant of the old Rise CPUs from the 90s. One of the many x86 CPUs from that era, but the only one I can think of that didn't die off or get bought by/merged into AMD or VIA.
 
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