Survivors of Abortions

JupiterJones

Senior member
Jun 14, 2001
642
0
0
August 5, 2002 - Bush signs Born-Alive Infants Protection Act.

The federal act amends the legal definition of "person," "human being," "child" and "individual" to include abortion survivors outside the womb who have a heartbeat or are breathing on their own. For decades, medical assistance was withheld from these children and they were allowed to die.

Testimony of abortion survivor Gianna Jessen before the Constitution Subcommittee of the House Judiciary Committee on April 22, 1996.

It would seem that pro-choice people are saying that Gianna Jessen was not a person on the morning of 4/6/77, but somehow was later that day.

Question: Why is Gianna a person outside the womb, but not inside the womb?
 

Jfur

Diamond Member
Jul 9, 2001
6,044
0
0
We should also change it to say that women are only 2/3 human under the law
 

Triumph

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,031
14
81
Originally posted by: Jfur
We should also change it to say that women are only 2/3 human under the law

rolleye.gif
The hypocrisy is sickening.

I'm with Pastor, but I hate this debate. I just get too angry. Why should I raise my blood pressure?
 

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,107
433
136
Originally posted by: Jfur
We should also change it to say that women are only 2/3 human under the law

Precisely WTF does that have to do with the topic?

rolleye.gif


Viper GTS
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,770
6,770
126
Bush lost the popular vote; he lost in Florida; he was appointed by the Supreme Coup. Because he is a Christian Fundamentalist, the notion that he has no mandate does not exist. He was elected by God to reverse the long difficult road women have been marching to equality. The Republicans will not eliminate abortion, but they will succeed, I'm pretty sure, in driving it into the back alleys for the poor and other countries for their daughters.

A vote for a conservative is a vote for a whole host of pernicious retrograde stupidities.
 

Yossarian

Lifer
Dec 26, 2000
18,010
1
81
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Bush lost the popular vote; he lost in Florida; he was appointed by the Supreme Coup. Because he is a Christian Fundamentalist, the notion that he has no mandate does not exist. He was elected by God to reverse the long difficult road women have been marching to equality. The Republicans will not eliminate abortion, but they will succeed, I'm pretty sure, in driving it into the back alleys for the poor and other countries for their daughters.

A vote for a conservative is a vote for a whole host of pernicious retrograde stupidities.

Can I have a "WTF" from the congregation.
 

Jeeeeezus! They were allowed to die? :Q

Oh well! This topic is never worth me losing it. As long as I have someone who shares my views in this respect, we'll be fine. I'm too tired to fight it with die-hard <insert political views>.
 

MomAndSkoorbaby

Diamond Member
May 6, 2001
3,651
0
0
Originally posted by: luvly
Jeeeeezus! They were allowed to die? :Q

Oh well! This topic is never worth me losing it. As long as I have someone who shares my views in this respect, we'll be fine. I'm too tired to fight it with die-hard <insert political views>.

Me too.....

<-----re-read act and runs away to hide.
 

SagaLore

Elite Member
Dec 18, 2001
24,036
21
81
Question: Why is Gianna a person outside the womb, but not inside the womb?

Well don't you know? Because she was invading her mother's right to privacy, and anybody that invades privacy is inhuman! :Q

Personally I think Roe vs. Wade should be revisited because the whole basis of it's is a woman's right to privacy, but how is it considered privacy if the mother invited the sperm to camp out in her in the first place? That's like signing a contract with a tenant and then cutting the contract short. That can't be legal, can it?
 

SagaLore

Elite Member
Dec 18, 2001
24,036
21
81
Originally posted by: PipBoy
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Bush lost the popular vote; he lost in Florida; he was appointed by the Supreme Coup. Because he is a Christian Fundamentalist, the notion that he has no mandate does not exist. He was elected by God to reverse the long difficult road women have been marching to equality. The Republicans will not eliminate abortion, but they will succeed, I'm pretty sure, in driving it into the back alleys for the poor and other countries for their daughters.

A vote for a conservative is a vote for a whole host of pernicious retrograde stupidities.

Can I have a "WTF" from the congregation.

WTF?!?
 

Wallydraigle

Banned
Nov 27, 2000
10,754
1
0
The CIA should assemble a task force to go put the girl down. Her mother chose to abort her. How dare she infringe on her mother's right to choose like that?
 

Jfur

Diamond Member
Jul 9, 2001
6,044
0
0
Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Originally posted by: Jfur
We should also change it to say that women are only 2/3 human under the law

Precisely WTF does that have to do with the topic?

rolleye.gif


Viper GTS

It was a preemptive strike because these threads always get steered in that direction.
 

Yeeny

Lifer
Feb 2, 2000
10,848
2
0
I'm right to life, to me, your right to choose starts and ends with shutting your legs before you do anything, if you aren't willing to take responsibility for your actions. However, thats only a decision I can put upon my own shoulders, and its not my duty or job to push it down anyone elses throats. I don't judge anyone that has an abortion, just like I don't judge a 14 year old that has a baby. It's just not our place.

As for that link, that is just a tragedy all around. 19 years old, and she lives knowing her mother didn't want her. 17 year old mother who was probably all alone in the world, with no one to help her, and no way of supporting a baby, makes a decision that she thinks is the right one, and ends up going through that. It's just all very sad to me. :(
 

SagaLore

Elite Member
Dec 18, 2001
24,036
21
81
Originally posted by: GirlFriday
I'm right to life, to me, your right to choose starts and ends with shutting your legs before you do anything, if you aren't willing to take responsibility for your actions.

Amen sister!
 

Sleestak

Banned
Nov 20, 2002
342
0
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Bush lost the popular vote; he lost in Florida; he was appointed by the Supreme Coup. Because he is a Christian Fundamentalist, the notion that he has no mandate does not exist. He was elected by God to reverse the long difficult road women have been marching to equality. The Republicans will not eliminate abortion, but they will succeed, I'm pretty sure, in driving it into the back alleys for the poor and other countries for their daughters.

A vote for a conservative is a vote for a whole host of pernicious retrograde stupidities.

You might want to read this before you start talking out of your ass again.


Gore's Revisionism

By George F. Will

Thursday, November 21, 2002; Page A41


Al Gore is back, breathing fire and revising history. His fire -- that Bush's economic policy is "catastrophic" and that his foreign policy goal is world domination -- is harmless. His revisionism is not.

Barbara Walters recently asked him if there were times during the 36 days of Florida turmoil when he thought he was going to be president. He answered:

"Yes. Specifically, when the Florida Supreme Court ruled that they would have to actually count all the ballots. That's all I asked for. Count all the ballots. I asked them to count them statewide. They were focusing in on four counties but they should've been counted statewide as well." (Emphasis added.)

Well. Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. Gore's historical fiction demands refutation.

When the election ended with George W. Bush 537 votes ahead, Gore initiated litigation that placed the U.S. Supreme Court in this dilemma: It could either allow Florida's Supreme Court, composed entirely of Democratic appointees, to decide the presidency with a series of decisions that revised Florida election law in ways favorable to Gore, or it could restrain Florida's court, thereby seeming to act politically.

The U.S. court was forced into this controversy by the Constitution, which empowers state legislatures to set election laws. Florida's Supreme Court breezily dismissed the Legislature's deadlines for counting votes and certifying results as "hypertechnical reliance upon statutory provisions."

After the Nov. 26 deadline improvised by Florida's court (extended from Nov. 14) for official results, Bush was declared the winner. A trial court affirmed this because Gore had failed to show any abuse of discretion in vote-counting.

But Florida's Supreme Court ruled, 4 to 3, that Gore should be given various additional benefits he had requested (inclusion of results of a late recount in one heavily Democratic county and completion of the recount in another such county). And it ordered something no one had requested -- a statewide recount of all "undervotes," meaning ballots voters had marked in ways not readable by the counting machines.

Never mind what Gore told Barbara Walters. Gore's lawyers did not seek a statewide recount of undervotes. Bush's lawyers, too, did not seek a statewide recount but argued that under Florida law -- which was rapidly being superseded in the state Supreme Court's legislating -- any recount had to be statewide, and by then such a recount was impracticable, hence there should be no recount. And certainly not one targeted to pockets of Gore's strength.

But Florida's court failed to provide consistent and uniform standards for recognizing a legal vote. Local jurisdictions controlled by Democrats seemed to be changing standards until they found ones that would produce the outcomes they favored.

Because one voter's ballot could be valid and another voter's identically marked ballot could be invalid, seven of the nine U.S. Supreme Court justices -- including Stephen Breyer, a Clinton appointee, and David Souter, another member of the court's liberal faction -- agreed that the Florida court's terms for ordering a statewide manual recount of undervotes violated the constitutional guarantees of due process and equal protection of the laws.

Worse, because it was more blatantly partisan, was the Florida court's order that new votes already found in a recount of all ballots in the most heavily Democratic precincts of Miami-Dade County would be counted, but only undervotes would be recounted in the remaining precincts, which included heavily Republican neighborhoods of Cuban Americans.

Gore supporters say conservatives should fault the U.S. Supreme Court for judicial activism. But the court's act of restraining the unconstitutional activism of Florida's Supreme Court was strict construction of the Constitution, not judicial activism.

The mantra of some Gore supporters is that President Bush was "selected, not elected." But from the moment that Gore's litigation achieved its aim of triggering the activism of Florida's Supreme Court, the country was condemned to a process in which finality would be enforced by that court or the U.S. Supreme Court.

Gore could have become president only if a seven-justice majority of the U.S. Supreme Court had flinched from finding constitutional infirmity in rules made up on the fly by Florida's court. That is, Gore could have become president only by being selected by the Florida court's improvisations that supplanted statutes -- improvisations that even included ordering the review of certified results from counties whose results had not been contested, and which were not parties to the litigation.

Gore bears the burden of demonstrating why superior legitimacy would have attached to the result that Florida's court strained to achieve than to the result the U.S. court sealed.

© 2002 The Washington Post Company
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: luvly
Jeeeeezus! They were allowed to die? :Q

Oh well! This topic is never worth me losing it. As long as I have someone who shares my views in this respect, we'll be fine. I'm too tired to fight it with die-hard <insert political views>.
Smart move. You speak your mind and it's not to the liking of Mullah Don and his hordes of Fund a Mental Cases and they'll declare a Jihad on your bony ass! Besoides, having a kid will wreck havoc with your Svelte figure.
 

Wallydraigle

Banned
Nov 27, 2000
10,754
1
0
Originally posted by: Sleestak
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Bush lost the popular vote; he lost in Florida; he was appointed by the Supreme Coup. Because he is a Christian Fundamentalist, the notion that he has no mandate does not exist. He was elected by God to reverse the long difficult road women have been marching to equality. The Republicans will not eliminate abortion, but they will succeed, I'm pretty sure, in driving it into the back alleys for the poor and other countries for their daughters.

A vote for a conservative is a vote for a whole host of pernicious retrograde stupidities.

You might want to read this before you start talking out of your ass again.


Gore's Revisionism

By George F. Will

Thursday, November 21, 2002; Page A41


Al Gore is back, breathing fire and revising history. His fire -- that Bush's economic policy is "catastrophic" and that his foreign policy goal is world domination -- is harmless. His revisionism is not.

Barbara Walters recently asked him if there were times during the 36 days of Florida turmoil when he thought he was going to be president. He answered:

"Yes. Specifically, when the Florida Supreme Court ruled that they would have to actually count all the ballots. That's all I asked for. Count all the ballots. I asked them to count them statewide. They were focusing in on four counties but they should've been counted statewide as well." (Emphasis added.)

Well. Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. Gore's historical fiction demands refutation.

When the election ended with George W. Bush 537 votes ahead, Gore initiated litigation that placed the U.S. Supreme Court in this dilemma: It could either allow Florida's Supreme Court, composed entirely of Democratic appointees, to decide the presidency with a series of decisions that revised Florida election law in ways favorable to Gore, or it could restrain Florida's court, thereby seeming to act politically.

The U.S. court was forced into this controversy by the Constitution, which empowers state legislatures to set election laws. Florida's Supreme Court breezily dismissed the Legislature's deadlines for counting votes and certifying results as "hypertechnical reliance upon statutory provisions."

After the Nov. 26 deadline improvised by Florida's court (extended from Nov. 14) for official results, Bush was declared the winner. A trial court affirmed this because Gore had failed to show any abuse of discretion in vote-counting.

But Florida's Supreme Court ruled, 4 to 3, that Gore should be given various additional benefits he had requested (inclusion of results of a late recount in one heavily Democratic county and completion of the recount in another such county). And it ordered something no one had requested -- a statewide recount of all "undervotes," meaning ballots voters had marked in ways not readable by the counting machines.

Never mind what Gore told Barbara Walters. Gore's lawyers did not seek a statewide recount of undervotes. Bush's lawyers, too, did not seek a statewide recount but argued that under Florida law -- which was rapidly being superseded in the state Supreme Court's legislating -- any recount had to be statewide, and by then such a recount was impracticable, hence there should be no recount. And certainly not one targeted to pockets of Gore's strength.

But Florida's court failed to provide consistent and uniform standards for recognizing a legal vote. Local jurisdictions controlled by Democrats seemed to be changing standards until they found ones that would produce the outcomes they favored.

Because one voter's ballot could be valid and another voter's identically marked ballot could be invalid, seven of the nine U.S. Supreme Court justices -- including Stephen Breyer, a Clinton appointee, and David Souter, another member of the court's liberal faction -- agreed that the Florida court's terms for ordering a statewide manual recount of undervotes violated the constitutional guarantees of due process and equal protection of the laws.

Worse, because it was more blatantly partisan, was the Florida court's order that new votes already found in a recount of all ballots in the most heavily Democratic precincts of Miami-Dade County would be counted, but only undervotes would be recounted in the remaining precincts, which included heavily Republican neighborhoods of Cuban Americans.

Gore supporters say conservatives should fault the U.S. Supreme Court for judicial activism. But the court's act of restraining the unconstitutional activism of Florida's Supreme Court was strict construction of the Constitution, not judicial activism.

The mantra of some Gore supporters is that President Bush was "selected, not elected." But from the moment that Gore's litigation achieved its aim of triggering the activism of Florida's Supreme Court, the country was condemned to a process in which finality would be enforced by that court or the U.S. Supreme Court.

Gore could have become president only if a seven-justice majority of the U.S. Supreme Court had flinched from finding constitutional infirmity in rules made up on the fly by Florida's court. That is, Gore could have become president only by being selected by the Florida court's improvisations that supplanted statutes -- improvisations that even included ordering the review of certified results from counties whose results had not been contested, and which were not parties to the litigation.

Gore bears the burden of demonstrating why superior legitimacy would have attached to the result that Florida's court strained to achieve than to the result the U.S. court sealed.

© 2002 The Washington Post Company


Waste of time. You just can't confuse some people with the facts.

 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: Sleestak
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Bush lost the popular vote; he lost in Florida; he was appointed by the Supreme Coup. Because he is a Christian Fundamentalist, the notion that he has no mandate does not exist. He was elected by God to reverse the long difficult road women have been marching to equality. The Republicans will not eliminate abortion, but they will succeed, I'm pretty sure, in driving it into the back alleys for the poor and other countries for their daughters.

A vote for a conservative is a vote for a whole host of pernicious retrograde stupidities.

You might want to read this before you start talking out of your ass again.
I don't know if you are just a returning troll or an actual newbie but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for being a newbie. What Moonie is doing is just yanking the chains opf the Red Assed Ultra Conservatives. Something that's rather easy to do on this forum

 

Sleestak

Banned
Nov 20, 2002
342
0
0
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Sleestak
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Bush lost the popular vote; he lost in Florida; he was appointed by the Supreme Coup. Because he is a Christian Fundamentalist, the notion that he has no mandate does not exist. He was elected by God to reverse the long difficult road women have been marching to equality. The Republicans will not eliminate abortion, but they will succeed, I'm pretty sure, in driving it into the back alleys for the poor and other countries for their daughters.

A vote for a conservative is a vote for a whole host of pernicious retrograde stupidities.

You might want to read this before you start talking out of your ass again.
I don't know if you are just a returning troll or an actual newbie but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for being a newbie. What Moonie is doing is just yanking the chains opf the Red Assed Ultra Conservatives. Something that's rather easy to do on this forum
Ahhhh. I see. He seems a bit out there to me. Guess I just did not understand.

 

SagaLore

Elite Member
Dec 18, 2001
24,036
21
81
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
And, Red, the irony is, that in doing so, I always yank yours. :D

You have such a sleek writing style that when you post like that I think you yank everybody's chain. :) I can never tell what you really think... I find myself wanting to reply to your posts in a fit of rage, and then I realize - oh, it's just Moonbeam. ;)