Supreme Court Upholds School Vouchers

[Lucky]

Originally posted by: glenn1

my feelings are mixed on this. but it just amazes me how *one* vote from the supreme court (5-4 decisions) can be so influential on the shaping of this country. its mind-boggling.

Which would you rather have, a nine-person bloc making the decision about whether to experiment with programs like this, or the expressed view of the entire people of a state at the ballot box?

Now the people of Ohio can make the choice of whether to continue the program, or scrap it. I'm pretty sure that's a better way of deciding the matter than having the USSC decide for them.

You, you are of course right and I'm not saying that the current system is flawed in any way that we could fix (or find a better solution to). It just amazes me that these 9 people have so much power in the country, their rulings are unappealable (of course!) and they are on for life. Sorry for the OT it was just meant to be a musing..

 

[glenn1]

You, you are of course right and I'm not saying that the current system is flawed in any way that we could fix (or find a better solution to). It just amazes me that these 9 people have so much power in the country, their rulings are unappealable (of course!) and they are on for life. Sorry for the OT it was just meant to be a musing..

No, i agree. And in some ways it's our fault that we allow it to happen that way. All too often it seems the American people use the USSC as a crutch to decide some of the tougher issues for us, on things the vast majority of us are terminally conflicted over. Abortion and capital punishment are a couple of examples of subjects the people of the electorate should by all rights have the final say on, but instead we allow the high court to answer the question for us. That way we can wash our hands of the decision once it gets made, and thus have it both ways. We avoid having to make a stand one way or the other, and are content to wring our hands, decry the weak points of the decision which does get made (when we would do the same thing if they made the opposite decision), and tell ourselves that oh well, the Supreme Court has spoken, nothing to be done about it now.

 

[SpongeBob]

This is so bogus. My parents spent their hard-earned money to put me and my brothers and sisters through private school. That should be how it is, you want to give your kids a better education, then you pay more than just your taxes for it. All this will do is make the private schools richer and the public schools poorer.

:|:|:|

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Lucky

Originally posted by: PastorDon
Thursday?s ruling on vouchers continued a trend of the court in recent years to ease the path toward state support of religion.

Hmm. This does show a bit of the reporters bias. Giving parents a choice that includes a religious institution as well as secular institutions is a far cry from state support of religion.

considering that >95% of the vouchers in cleveland were used for religious schools, I dont think its that far off.

Considering they should not be forced to pay for public education in the first place, it really does not matter how they spend the vouchers. The people in end should be able to decide where to send their kids, since they have piad for schooling via taxes already.

 

[tm37]

Originally posted by: Lucky

Originally posted by: PastorDon
Thursday?s ruling on vouchers continued a trend of the court in recent years to ease the path toward state support of religion.

Hmm. This does show a bit of the reporters bias. Giving parents a choice that includes a religious institution as well as secular institutions is a far cry from state support of religion.

considering that >95% of the vouchers in cleveland were used for religious schools, I dont think its that far off.

I have posted this numerous other posts but-

THE FIRST AMENDMENT DOES NOT PROVIDE FOR SERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

READ THE AMENDMENT

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

Congress cannot not make ANY LAW REPSECTING AN ESTABLISHMENT OF RELGION simply stated there will be no government church.

OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF - meaning there will be no law regarding how you choose to worship.

If you read a little farther-


Quote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The first admendment prohibits CONGRESS not the states or the people.
And it does not say that we cannot support religion just that we can't have a NATIONAL RELIGION.

READ THE ENTIRE DOCUMENT not just the highlights

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: SpongeBob
This is so bogus. My parents spent their hard-earned money to put me and my brothers and sisters through private school. That should be how it is, you want to give your kids a better education, then you pay more than just your taxes for it. All this will do is make the private schools richer and the public schools poorer.

:|:|:|

Actually where vouchers have been used it has been shown to make the public schools better because they are forced to compete.

 

[Spendthrift]

this is fabulous news! i spent about half my life in private schools and the other half in public. i was much happier in the public school but i do feel that the education i recieved was better in the private school.

its nice to see parents have the option of where to send their kids and not have to pay to support a school system they dont want to use.

oh and the vast majority of private school teachers make less than their counterparts in the public school system.


<--- teacher (public school)

 

[Shantanu]

All this will do is make the private schools richer and the public schools poorer.

Oh the idiocy!

You do realize that with additional students, there are also additional costs? Most of these schools that we're talking about are non-profit organizations. When was the last time you saw a Jesuit driving around in a Mercedes? Furthermore, on average private schools in this country spend less per pupil than do public schools, but consistently produce better results. Inner city public schools are extremely well funded. Money has never been a problem for them; it's the utter lack of accountability.

And if a few underperforming, overfunded ghetto schools do die, because the parents choose to send their kids to private schools, please explain to me what exactly is wrong with that. It seems to me that a) kids are getting a better education, b) sh|tty public school teachers are forced out of a job and c) public money is better allocated. How is that a crime?

I'm not Catholic, but I went to a Catholic school my freshman year of high school. The teachers there were paid half as much as public school teachers, but they really gave a damn about their jobs and the students. There were also quite a few black and Hispanic kids at this school, who lived in the inner city no less. So much for the, "Catholic schools don't allow black people!" theory.

I'm just trying to dispel some of the horrendously stupid stereotypes here.

 

[Ferocious]

My view on vouchers is a neutral one.....because I'm ABSOLUTELY conviced it isn't going to solve or fix anything. Because there is nothing wrong with the vast majority of schools.

It's about the family.

I know some so-called parents who bitch about the public school there kid goes to. But I also know TWO immigrant families that send their kids to the same exact school....and their kids do exceptionally well.

When I went to public school, I and my parents took accountability for how well I did. If I didn't do so good, I simply studied harder and voila.....my grades improved!

There are PLENTY of public school districts in nicer areas that do at least as well as private schools with respect to kids' performance......which quite often is in contrast to public schools in lower class areas. Again it's the difference in FAMILY environment that makes the difference.

Quite simple really.

 

[JupiterJones]

considering that >95% of the vouchers in cleveland were used for religious schools, I dont think its that far off.

The question that begs to be asked, is why did >95% of parents choose a religious school. For whatever reason, these parents thought that the religious schools were the best choice for their children. I am sure that expense was a consideration (if the voucher did not cover 100%) and also availability.

It will be interesting to see where parents put their children when given the real choice of State schools, secular private schools, and religious private schools.

Vouchers empower the poor.

 

[alrocky]

You can get a government voucher to go to a Christian school but you can't recite, "...under God..." there. Wierd.

 

[im2smrt4u]

So the government will pay for private education (often religious), but they shoot down public charter schools! WTF!? :|

 

[Lucky]

Considering they should not be forced to pay for public education in the first place, it really does not matter how they spend the vouchers. The people in end should be able to decide where to send their kids, since they have piad for schooling via taxes already.

Just FYI, but I'm not contradicting you.

Originally posted by: PastorDon
considering that >95% of the vouchers in cleveland were used for religious schools, I dont think its that far off.

The question that begs to be asked, is why did >95% of parents choose a religious school. For whatever reason, these parents thought that the religious schools were the best choice for their children. I am sure that expense was a consideration (if the voucher did not cover 100%) and also availability.

It will be interesting to see where parents put their children when given the real choice of State schools, secular private schools, and religious private schools.

Vouchers empower the poor.

Well, yes and no (to the last sentence). Many private school still impose strict standards on admittance even if you can cough up the money. Many poor families are headed by single parents that are hard-pressed to attend the mandatory parental meeting many private schools require.

And from what I've heard about cleveland, many suburban schools just flat out refused to accept the vouchers.

Overall I do think I support it...I jsut have some reservations in my mind about how this might further affect the downward spiral of inner city schools.


Glenn1

Thanks for the additional thoughts. Give me something to think about, very insightful. 🙂

 

[JellyBaby]

Ferocious, you made a good point and I agree parents can do wonders just by getting more involved in their child's education. Requiring them to perform or *else* makes good sense.

Our failing schools are failing for a variety of reasons. Vouchers and more schooling options give parents more freedom to do what they feel is right.

 

[Nefrodite]

hehe time to start an islamic madrasa🙂 wee! funnel some money back to help those freedom fighters too. money money money!!