Supervisor makes a stand on CalWorks

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: ZeGermans
if all fails find a minority to blame, said the irish-german descendant

Here's a concept - ILLEGAL immigrants. As in not lawfully allowed in the country.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Illegals should not get benefits when citizens and legal immigrants do without. Besides, California actually boarders Mexico, so it isn't like transportation isn't readily available to go back. Let Mexico support them.

THe problem is mexico cant and wont support them Until we get a sain immigration policy the illgal issue going to remain.

WTF? Sane immigration policy?

Besides Canada, the US has the loosest immigration policy in the world.

 

[exar333]

Originally posted by: ZeGermans
if all fails find a minority to blame, said the irish-german descendant

There is legal immigration and non-legal immigration. Illegal immigrants shouldn't be guaranteed any rights, outside of being free from harm, etc.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Illegals should not get benefits when citizens and legal immigrants do without. Besides, California actually boarders Mexico, so it isn't like transportation isn't readily available to go back. Let Mexico support them.

No way, too easy for them to come back.

I say we charter boats to China. If they want to do manual labor for low pay it seems like the perfect place to go.

China will probably send them back with the swine flu craze and all.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: ZeGermans
Man people love being able to openly treat others as subhuman if given the chance to do so without social recourse

If I go to Canada they don't just hand over piles of free drugs and health care to me. 0.o

How does not giving someone who just walked over the border and contributed nothing a pile of free money/housing/food count as treating them as "subhuman"?

Exactly.

To be fair, though, illegal immigrants contribute *a lot* to the economy, especially in places like California. I understand people's frustration with all the handouts they receive and I tend to agree with them, but you have to look at the big picture. I'm sure there have been studies on this and I'd have to look up the numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is a net economic benefit to society due to the low cost labor illegal immigrants and seasonal workers provide.

Again not necessarily saying I agree with the whole situation, but you have to keep this stuff in mind as well.

I understand that it does provide a benefit in cheap labor costs but we have many alternatives (some may even benefit us more in the long run)

1) If our own citizens do the jobs, we can, in theory have a lower rate of unemployment.

2) Many manual labor jobs are luxury items for the rich (building around the house, cleaning, gardening) that have our money being sent back to Mexico, where as it could be pumped back into the American Economy.

3) Some of the simple jobs could be automated with technology investments, creating a more efficient society.

I could say more but I'm tired, and it has been a long day.

That's why we need to scrap the minimum wage. There are hard working Americans and legal immigrants who just want to put food on the table. Minimum wage ensures that the job goes to illegals who get paid under the books rather than hardworking legal residents.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: ZeGermans
Man people love being able to openly treat others as subhuman if given the chance to do so without social recourse

If I go to Canada they don't just hand over piles of free drugs and health care to me. 0.o

How does not giving someone who just walked over the border and contributed nothing a pile of free money/housing/food count as treating them as "subhuman"?

because that is the touchy-feely, illogical nonsense that libs hope will guilt other people into accepting their ideology.

 

[soulcougher73]

Originally posted by: Sawyer
It amazes me people think illegals should be getting the assitance

This. Plus if we stop giving them every god damn thing under the sun they may just stay in their own country. That is a thought to curtail the immigration issue.

 

[JeepinEd]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
That's why I used the extremely broad term "society." Obviously it's not beneficial to everyone, I never claimed there weren't downsides to low cost illegal labor flooding the job market. Just saying that overall, they may be a benefit to society as opposed to a drain. Like I said I'd be interested in reading some good studies on this if anybody has any suggestions, I did some quick Googling and didn't find much.

edit: And you bring up some good points as well TruePaige. For the last one, though, if there was a cheaper and more efficient way to harvest those grapes or whatever, that's what farmers would be using. I mean businesses are out to maximize profits, they wouldn't be using illegal labor if it wasn't the most cost effective option available. Of course that will change as wages these workers demand increases and technology improves.

Not even close. We imprison, feed, educate and provide medical care for the illegals and their anchor babies, and they provide cheap farm labor? Not a good trade.

Instead we she streamline the immigration process and let more come in legally. Let them still work the same low wage jobs, but get them paid above the table and paying taxes. This is the simple solution, however DC seems to ignore this one.

Making Illegal Aliens legal and having them pay taxes means that the employers will need to pay them minimum wage, plus payroll taxes and all the other associated costs. This will pretty much put all those newly legalized aliens out of work and create an opportunity for a new batch of illegal aliens to come in and work for below minimum wage as their predecessors did.

10 Hire illegal aliens
20 Make illegal aliens legal, pay them minimum wage+ and have them pay taxes.
30 Fire newly legalized workers
40 go to 10

(old school basic)

 

[GeezerMan]

I'm looking for a quote from a Mexican official a few years ago about how embarrassing it is for Mexico to lecture the USA on immigration when the Mexican Immigration laws are so draconian. It is the height of hypocrisy for them to complain. Look up their laws and be amazed how harsh they are.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: ZeGermans
Man people love being able to openly treat others as subhuman if given the chance to do so without social recourse

I wish I could get my points across one hyperbole at a time too.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: ZeGermans
Man people love being able to openly treat others as subhuman if given the chance to do so without social recourse

Do you dispute that California is facing a paralyzing budget crisis? Do you think maybe one way to deal with that is to not give out $425 million in free stuff?

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: ZeGermans
Man people love being able to openly treat others as subhuman if given the chance to do so without social recourse

Do you dispute that California is facing a paralyzing budget crisis? Do you think maybe one way to deal with that is to not give out $425 million in free stuff?

Plenty of people are willing to employ, or rather exploit immigrants in order to make savings when work exists. It is true that work is becoming increasingly hard to find; however, I don't think that the immigrants, or their families, are to blame. I would seek to control expenditure in other areas before I started pointing the finger at immigrants.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Plenty of people are willing to employ, or rather exploit immigrants in order to make savings when work exists. It is true that work is becoming increasingly hard to find; however, I don't think that the immigrants, or their families, are to blame. I would seek to control expenditure in other areas before I started pointing the finger at immigrants.

We can point the finger at multiple things. I've never understood the logic that you cant look at multiple ways to get into the black at once.

Illegal immigration is a huge deal. It is unpopular to deal with due to needing the Latino vote, so the spineless politicians wont.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Plenty of people are willing to employ, or rather exploit immigrants in order to make savings when work exists. It is true that work is becoming increasingly hard to find; however, I don't think that the immigrants, or their families, are to blame. I would seek to control expenditure in other areas before I started pointing the finger at immigrants.

We can point the finger at multiple things. I've never understood the logic that you cant look at multiple ways to get into the black at once.

Illegal immigration is a huge deal. It is unpopular to deal with due to needing the Latino vote, so the spineless politicians wont.

It's unpopular because they are poor, whilst rich executives continue to receive scandalous pay rises. The economic situation was not provoked by immigration, maybe we could start from there.

Incidentally, you don't need much of a spine to point the finger at immigrants: history has shown, it's the easy option.

The Latinos who have a vote are US citizens and therefore they have a right to be heard. If they pressure for a more humane approach to immigratrion, you're going to have to adapt - sorry about that.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: GeezerMan
Link

I have been following the fiscal crisis in California. It's very interesting to see these costs reported on.

"Antonovich spokesman Tony Bell suggested other areas for the county to make cuts. "We need to curtail benefits to illegal immigrants," he said.

Bell said the county spends $425 million on food stamp and CalWorks benefits to illegal aliens and their children. He doesn't suggest cutting the CalWorks program outright, just eliminating benefits to illegal aliens. "

To deport illegals you would first have to deport Democrats. Like cutting down a tree with a tree hugger on it. They won?t allow you to touch their baby without first going through them.

This guy taking a stand will lose. The power structure of our government, at all levels, is firmly behind supporting and fostering tens of millions of illiegals. Good bye Tony Bell.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Plenty of people are willing to employ, or rather exploit immigrants in order to make savings when work exists. It is true that work is becoming increasingly hard to find; however, I don't think that the immigrants, or their families, are to blame. I would seek to control expenditure in other areas before I started pointing the finger at immigrants.

We can point the finger at multiple things. I've never understood the logic that you cant look at multiple ways to get into the black at once.

Illegal immigration is a huge deal. It is unpopular to deal with due to needing the Latino vote, so the spineless politicians wont.

It's unpopular because they are poor, whilst rich executives continue to receive scandalous pay rises. The economic situation was not provoked by immigration, maybe we could start from there.

Incidentally, you don't need much of a spine to point the finger at immigrants: history has shown, it's the easy option.

The Latinos who have a vote are US citizens and therefore they have a right to be heard. If they pressure for a more humane approach to immigratrion, you're going to have to adapt - sorry about that.

Wait until a real financial mess hits Illegal aliens will be running back across the border to get home.

The bleeding-heart libbies in CA are all for having illegals around, until it affects them.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Plenty of people are willing to employ, or rather exploit immigrants in order to make savings when work exists. It is true that work is becoming increasingly hard to find; however, I don't think that the immigrants, or their families, are to blame. I would seek to control expenditure in other areas before I started pointing the finger at immigrants.

We can point the finger at multiple things. I've never understood the logic that you cant look at multiple ways to get into the black at once.

Illegal immigration is a huge deal. It is unpopular to deal with due to needing the Latino vote, so the spineless politicians wont.

It's unpopular because they are poor, whilst rich executives continue to receive scandalous pay rises. The economic situation was not provoked by immigration, maybe we could start from there.

Incidentally, you don't need much of a spine to point the finger at immigrants: history has shown, it's the easy option.

The Latinos who have a vote are US citizens and therefore they have a right to be heard. If they pressure for a more humane approach to immigratrion, you're going to have to adapt - sorry about that.

Wait until a real financial mess hits Illegal aliens will be running back across the border to get home.

The bleeding-heart libbies in CA are all for having illegals around, until it affects them.

The present financial mess is real enough for me.

 

[senseamp]

If Children are US citizens, they should get food stamps.

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: charrison
The southern border is a bit too long to have strict border enforcement.

And... The moon was too far to travel to... The Great Wall of China was too long and too high to build... The pyramids' stones were too heavy to carry... Berlin was too far inland to ever get to with ground forces...

I despise pessimism and laziness.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Plenty of people are willing to employ, or rather exploit immigrants in order to make savings when work exists. It is true that work is becoming increasingly hard to find; however, I don't think that the immigrants, or their families, are to blame. I would seek to control expenditure in other areas before I started pointing the finger at immigrants.

We can point the finger at multiple things. I've never understood the logic that you cant look at multiple ways to get into the black at once.

Illegal immigration is a huge deal. It is unpopular to deal with due to needing the Latino vote, so the spineless politicians wont.

It's unpopular because they are poor, whilst rich executives continue to receive scandalous pay rises. The economic situation was not provoked by immigration, maybe we could start from there.

Incidentally, you don't need much of a spine to point the finger at immigrants: history has shown, it's the easy option.

The Latinos who have a vote are US citizens and therefore they have a right to be heard. If they pressure for a more humane approach to immigratrion, you're going to have to adapt - sorry about that.

I'm not so sure what you're implying is so "inhumane" about the current policy. For the most part we're not doing anything, sure a few people get caught and deported, or there's a raid on some chicken plant that rounds up a couple hundred.

But, most of them come right back within a few weeks or months.

Sorry, I know I'm a pinkocommielib to most, but I'm not onboard for supporting illegals.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: ZeGermans
Man people love being able to openly treat others as subhuman if given the chance to do so without social recourse

Do you dispute that California is facing a paralyzing budget crisis? Do you think maybe one way to deal with that is to not give out $425 million in free stuff?

Plenty of people are willing to employ, or rather exploit immigrants in order to make savings when work exists. It is true that work is becoming increasingly hard to find; however, I don't think that the immigrants, or their families, are to blame. I would seek to control expenditure in other areas before I started pointing the finger at immigrants.

Care to show me where I placed any blame on the illegal immigrants? The blame lies with the people that passed the legislation, but really, who is to blame is of no relevance at this point, they simply don't have the money to continue doing it. I'm fairly certain they still need to find other cuts to make as well, but I'd much rather see this cut than wages for firemen, police, and teachers.

 

[Turin39789]

Starving peasants kill Royals.
Swine-flu infected illegals can infect legals.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Illegals should not get benefits when citizens and legal immigrants do without. Besides, California actually boarders Mexico, so it isn't like transportation isn't readily available to go back. Let Mexico support them.

THe problem is mexico cant and wont support them Until we get a sain immigration policy the illgal issue going to remain.

What??? If Mexico trying to tell us how to run our own country, then FUCK THEM!!

People are standing in line to get into this country legally. What makes the Hispanics think they can jump to the front of the line??

 

[Pneumothorax]

Since the illegals are getting these services for "free", shouldn't we tax the hell out of their money transfers into mexico to pay for their "welfare?" Say about 30% is a good starting point as they're working under the table anyway.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: Red Irish

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: ZeGermans
Man people love being able to openly treat others as subhuman if given the chance to do so without social recourse

Do you dispute that California is facing a paralyzing budget crisis? Do you think maybe one way to deal with that is to not give out $425 million in free stuff?

Plenty of people are willing to employ, or rather exploit immigrants in order to make savings when work exists. It is true that work is becoming increasingly hard to find; however, I don't think that the immigrants, or their families, are to blame. I would seek to control expenditure in other areas before I started pointing the finger at immigrants.

Care to show me where I placed any blame on the illegal immigrants? The blame lies with the people that passed the legislation, but really, who is to blame is of no relevance at this point, they simply don't have the money to continue doing it. I'm fairly certain they still need to find other cuts to make as well, but I'd much rather see this cut than wages for firemen, police, and teachers.

You see an opportunity to cut costs, I see people going hungry:

"CalWorks benefits to illegal aliens and their children"

I would identify "benefits" and "children" as the two most important words in that sentence; you would choose "illegal" and "alien".

However, we can both agree that cuts should never affect the wages of the fire brigade, the police force or education.