Supervisor makes a stand on CalWorks

[GeezerMan]

Link

I have been following the fiscal crisis in California. It's very interesting to see these costs reported on.

"Antonovich spokesman Tony Bell suggested other areas for the county to make cuts. "We need to curtail benefits to illegal immigrants," he said.

Bell said the county spends $425 million on food stamp and CalWorks benefits to illegal aliens and their children. He doesn't suggest cutting the CalWorks program outright, just eliminating benefits to illegal aliens. "

 

[TruePaige]

I'm for that.

 

[ZeGermans]

if all fails find a minority to blame, said the irish-german descendant

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: ZeGermans
if all fails find a minority to blame, said the irish-german descendant

It would just help.

Nothing wrong with legal Hispanic immigrants.

They shouldn't get benefits at all should they? I don't think so. They aren't citizens.

 

[txrandom]

Should have never even started supporting illegal aliens.

 

[ZeGermans]

Man people love being able to openly treat others as subhuman if given the chance to do so without social recourse

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: ZeGermans
Man people love being able to openly treat others as subhuman if given the chance to do so without social recourse

If I go to Canada they don't just hand over piles of free drugs and health care to me. 0.o

How does not giving someone who just walked over the border and contributed nothing a pile of free money/housing/food count as treating them as "subhuman"?

 

[SAWYER]

It amazes me people think illegals should be getting the assitance

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Sawyer
It amazes me people think illegals should be getting the assitance

Logic is not something liberals are known for.


It really isnt a (D) or (R) issue. There are plenty on both sides of the isle that understand the lunacy of giving benefits to illegals.

 

[MovingTarget]

Illegals should not get benefits when citizens and legal immigrants do without. Besides, California actually boarders Mexico, so it isn't like transportation isn't readily available to go back. Let Mexico support them.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Illegals should not get benefits when citizens and legal immigrants do without. Besides, California actually boarders Mexico, so it isn't like transportation isn't readily available to go back. Let Mexico support them.

THe problem is mexico cant and wont support them Until we get a sain immigration policy the illgal issue going to remain.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Illegals should not get benefits when citizens and legal immigrants do without. Besides, California actually boarders Mexico, so it isn't like transportation isn't readily available to go back. Let Mexico support them.

No way, too easy for them to come back.

I say we charter boats to China. If they want to do manual labor for low pay it seems like the perfect place to go.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Illegals should not get benefits when citizens and legal immigrants do without. Besides, California actually boarders Mexico, so it isn't like transportation isn't readily available to go back. Let Mexico support them.

THe problem is mexico cant and wont support them Until we get a sain immigration policy the illgal issue going to remain.

Yes, the Mexican government can't to their job unless we do something first :roll:


Scary.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Illegals should not get benefits when citizens and legal immigrants do without. Besides, California actually boarders Mexico, so it isn't like transportation isn't readily available to go back. Let Mexico support them.

Seriously, people can't get an annual physical / eye exam / cleaning but if you come to this country illegally you can get all that and more for free?

Something truly wrong there.

 

[frostedflakes]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: ZeGermans
Man people love being able to openly treat others as subhuman if given the chance to do so without social recourse

If I go to Canada they don't just hand over piles of free drugs and health care to me. 0.o

How does not giving someone who just walked over the border and contributed nothing a pile of free money/housing/food count as treating them as "subhuman"?

Exactly.

To be fair, though, illegal immigrants contribute *a lot* to the economy, especially in places like California. I understand people's frustration with all the handouts they receive and I tend to agree with them, but you have to look at the big picture. I'm sure there have been studies on this and I'd have to look up the numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is a net economic benefit to society due to the low cost labor illegal immigrants and seasonal workers provide.

Again not necessarily saying I agree with the whole situation, but you have to keep this stuff in mind as well.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: ZeGermans
Man people love being able to openly treat others as subhuman if given the chance to do so without social recourse

If I go to Canada they don't just hand over piles of free drugs and health care to me. 0.o

How does not giving someone who just walked over the border and contributed nothing a pile of free money/housing/food count as treating them as "subhuman"?

Exactly.

To be fair, though, illegal immigrants contribute *a lot* to the economy, especially in places like California. I understand people's frustration with all the handouts they receive and I tend to agree with them, but you have to look at the big picture. I'm sure there have been studies on this and I'd have to look up the numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is a net economic benefit to society due to the low cost labor illegal immigrants and seasonal workers provide.

Again not necessarily saying I agree with the whole situation, but you have to keep this stuff in mind as well.

I understand that it does provide a benefit in cheap labor costs but we have many alternatives (some may even benefit us more in the long run)

1) If our own citizens do the jobs, we can, in theory have a lower rate of unemployment.

2) Many manual labor jobs are luxury items for the rich (building around the house, cleaning, gardening) that have our money being sent back to Mexico, where as it could be pumped back into the American Economy.

3) Some of the simple jobs could be automated with technology investments, creating a more efficient society.

I could say more but I'm tired, and it has been a long day.

 

[babylon5]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
but I wouldn't be surprised if there is a net economic benefit to society due to the low cost labor illegal immigrants and seasonal workers provide.

Wonder who gets this "net economic benefit". Business interests? Corporate interests? Sure.

Children in crowded public school? Crowded hospital emergency rooms? Jammed roads / freeways? Not so much.

 

[frostedflakes]

That's why I used the extremely broad term "society." Obviously it's not beneficial to everyone, I never claimed there weren't downsides to low cost illegal labor flooding the job market. Just saying that overall, they may be a benefit to society as opposed to a drain. Like I said I'd be interested in reading some good studies on this if anybody has any suggestions, I did some quick Googling and didn't find much.

edit: And you bring up some good points as well TruePaige. For the last one, though, if there was a cheaper and more efficient way to harvest those grapes or whatever, that's what farmers would be using. I mean businesses are out to maximize profits, they wouldn't be using illegal labor if it wasn't the most cost effective option available. Of course that will change as wages these workers demand increases and technology improves.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: MovingTarget
Illegals should not get benefits when citizens and legal immigrants do without. Besides, California actually boarders Mexico, so it isn't like transportation isn't readily available to go back. Let Mexico support them.

THe problem is mexico cant and wont support them Until we get a sane immigration policy the illgal issue going to remain.

Yes, the Mexican government can't to their job unless we do something first :roll:


Scary.

The mexican govt is a mess. It has imrproved over the last couple of decades, but it is still a mess.
Illegal aliens in this country working our crap jobs are far better off than staying home in mexico. That is the reason they are here. We can either ignore this problem(what we have been doing) or accept it and create sane policy based upon reality.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
That's why I used the extremely broad term "society." Obviously it's not beneficial to everyone, I never claimed there weren't downsides to low cost illegal labor flooding the job market. Just saying that overall, they may be a benefit to society as opposed to a drain. Like I said I'd be interested in reading some good studies on this if anybody has any suggestions, I did some quick Googling and didn't find much.

edit: And you bring up some good points as well TruePaige. For the last one, though, if there was a cheaper and more efficient way to harvest those grapes or whatever, that's what farmers would be using. I mean businesses are out to maximize profits, they wouldn't be using illegal labor if it wasn't the most cost effective option available. Of course that will change as wages these workers demand increases and technology improves.

Not even close. We imprison, feed, educate and provide medical care for the illegals and their anchor babies, and they provide cheap farm labor? Not a good trade.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
That's why I used the extremely broad term "society." Obviously it's not beneficial to everyone, I never claimed there weren't downsides to low cost illegal labor flooding the job market. Just saying that overall, they may be a benefit to society as opposed to a drain. Like I said I'd be interested in reading some good studies on this if anybody has any suggestions, I did some quick Googling and didn't find much.

edit: And you bring up some good points as well TruePaige. For the last one, though, if there was a cheaper and more efficient way to harvest those grapes or whatever, that's what farmers would be using. I mean businesses are out to maximize profits, they wouldn't be using illegal labor if it wasn't the most cost effective option available. Of course that will change as wages these workers demand increases and technology improves.

Not even close. We imprison, feed, educate and provide medical care for the illegals and their anchor babies, and they provide cheap farm labor? Not a good trade.

Instead we she streamline the immigration process and let more come in legally. Let them still work the same low wage jobs, but get them paid above the table and paying taxes. This is the simple solution, however DC seems to ignore this one.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
That's why I used the extremely broad term "society." Obviously it's not beneficial to everyone, I never claimed there weren't downsides to low cost illegal labor flooding the job market. Just saying that overall, they may be a benefit to society as opposed to a drain. Like I said I'd be interested in reading some good studies on this if anybody has any suggestions, I did some quick Googling and didn't find much.

edit: And you bring up some good points as well TruePaige. For the last one, though, if there was a cheaper and more efficient way to harvest those grapes or whatever, that's what farmers would be using. I mean businesses are out to maximize profits, they wouldn't be using illegal labor if it wasn't the most cost effective option available. Of course that will change as wages these workers demand increases and technology improves.

Not even close. We imprison, feed, educate and provide medical care for the illegals and their anchor babies, and they provide cheap farm labor? Not a good trade.

Instead we she streamline the immigration process and let more come in legally. Let them still work the same low wage jobs, but get them paid above the table and paying taxes. This is the simple solution, however DC seems to ignore this one.

Just to pose a question of curiosity...

If they get all the benefits of being a citizen... and don't have to pay any taxes...why would they do so if they became citizens?

Without a strict crackdown on illegal immigrants and a strongly enforced border to make sure the only way you can stay and work here, it wouldn't work.

We spend so much on military expenditures, can't we equip some F-22's with nets?

 

[Gigantopithecus]

As long as the Hispanic vote gets politicians elected, nothing will change.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: frostedflakes
That's why I used the extremely broad term "society." Obviously it's not beneficial to everyone, I never claimed there weren't downsides to low cost illegal labor flooding the job market. Just saying that overall, they may be a benefit to society as opposed to a drain. Like I said I'd be interested in reading some good studies on this if anybody has any suggestions, I did some quick Googling and didn't find much.

edit: And you bring up some good points as well TruePaige. For the last one, though, if there was a cheaper and more efficient way to harvest those grapes or whatever, that's what farmers would be using. I mean businesses are out to maximize profits, they wouldn't be using illegal labor if it wasn't the most cost effective option available. Of course that will change as wages these workers demand increases and technology improves.

Not even close. We imprison, feed, educate and provide medical care for the illegals and their anchor babies, and they provide cheap farm labor? Not a good trade.

Instead we she streamline the immigration process and let more come in legally. Let them still work the same low wage jobs, but get them paid above the table and paying taxes. This is the simple solution, however DC seems to ignore this one.

Just to pose a question of curiosity...

If they get all the benefits of being a citizen... and don't have to pay any taxes...why would they do so if they became citizens?

Without a strict crackdown on illegal immigrants and a strongly enforced border to make sure the only way you can stay and work here, it wouldn't work.

We spend so much on military expenditures, can't we equip some F-22's with nets?

It is my assumption that most illegals here would rather be legal immigrants. As this would be mean better wages and living conditions for them.

There the southern border is a bit too long to have strict border enforcement.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: ZeGermans
if all fails find a minority to blame, said the irish-german descendant

Are you suggesting that these people are in the country legally? Why have borders or immigration laws if entering and being in the country illegally doesn't have consequences?