Supersize Me

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Legend

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2005
2,254
1
0
You're the one acting like a snob because you think overpaying for something with virtually unproven health benefits will make you better than us peons who eat pesticide-rich, genetically modified food.

I eat only a few organic foods.

You can believe what you want, but you're the one acting like a jackass. You're telling me that I'm a snob because I eat a few organic foods for concern for my health. You blantantly ignore the obvious health hazards of pesticides and the evidence of omega 3 fats in natural foods and their health benefits. You offer no evidence otherwise.

You assume that I overspend on food, when I average at about $35/week. Whole foods are freakin cheap.

You come in here with an attitude like I'm a snob that thinks I'm better than people in other countries. Well why don't you offer all your possessions for a better cause because we know based off nothing that you're a jackass that thinks you're better than everyone else.
 

Legend

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2005
2,254
1
0
I agree with you DearQT. When I said that a whole foods diet was better I said balanced. I agree that excess of anything can be bad, and that you can gain weight off healthy foods (alhtough slower).
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
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Originally posted by: Legend


The US also ships out much of the food we grow. Also many much of it is used as items we use. such as oils, bread/pasta, heck even gas additives.

a 30% reduction in all grown items would be a very very bad thing.

So i am all for increasing the production of farmers.

My understanding is that organic farming has not taken over all farming and that many organic farms were created with the purpose of organic farming (ie all the old farms are still there).

Yes, I agree a 30% reduction would be bad, but this isn't happening.

If you're pro-output, why not attack the people that go restaurants and throw out half their food?


Im not defending output. im just debating your remark about not careing about farmers production.

If someone wants to start a farm for argonic veggies then thats great. It fills a niche market.

As for resturants i kinda agree. But then you have trouble with makeing sure everyone got enough to satisify them. So they error on the side of caution. I agree sometimes the servings are insane. But i just have them wrap it up and take it home. i either give it to the dogs or eat it latter.


 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Just to sort of get the thread back on track, I despise the portions at restaurants nowadays. I'd much rather they cut the portions in half, drop the price by 25%, and if some people need more, they can get a side order of something. I don't take leftovers home all that often, because they just don't reheat well a lot of the time. Soggy breads and potatoes, yuck. When I'm on my motorcycle, I can't take leftovers home. I waste a lot of food and money that way.
 

Legend

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2005
2,254
1
0
Im not defending output. im just debating your remark about not careing about farmers production.

Oh, maybe I should clarify. I do care about production, but the reason why I said I didn't earlier is because I deemed it irrelevant to the topic about the vegan woman and the health benefits of organic foods.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
8,345
126
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Just to sort of get the thread back on track, I despise the portions at restaurants nowadays. I'd much rather they cut the portions in half, drop the price by 25%, and if some people need more, they can get a side order of something. I don't take leftovers home all that often, because they just don't reheat well a lot of the time. Soggy breads and potatoes, yuck. When I'm on my motorcycle, I can't take leftovers home. I waste a lot of food and money that way.

And I wish you paid by weight at buffets. You weigh 450 pounds? Okay that'll be $15.00. You only weigh 100 pounds? That'll be $5.00.

I know it's not remotely feasible (or legal), but it makes more sense. There are exceptions where a little 100 pound thing can eat 5 pounds of food, but it's just not as common as a 450 pound dirigible of a person that has a table full of empty plates piled up in front of them. Weigh in and pay up piggy!
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Originally posted by: vi_edit
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Just to sort of get the thread back on track, I despise the portions at restaurants nowadays. I'd much rather they cut the portions in half, drop the price by 25%, and if some people need more, they can get a side order of something. I don't take leftovers home all that often, because they just don't reheat well a lot of the time. Soggy breads and potatoes, yuck. When I'm on my motorcycle, I can't take leftovers home. I waste a lot of food and money that way.

And I wish you paid by weight at buffets. You weigh 450 pounds? Okay that'll be $15.00. You only weigh 100 pounds? That'll be $5.00.

I know it's not remotely feasible (or legal), but it makes more sense. There are exceptions where a little 100 pound thing can eat 5 pounds of food, but it's just not as common as a 450 pound dirigible of a person that has a table full of empty plates piled up in front of them. Weigh in and pay up piggy!


wouldnt work either. when i was in high school i was 112 and could eat more then guys who were 200+lbs.



 

Legend

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2005
2,254
1
0
Yea, if you've trained your stomach to expand, a skinny guy can eat more because there's no fat to block the stomach from expanding more.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Originally posted by: Legend
Im not defending output. im just debating your remark about not careing about farmers production.

Oh, maybe I should clarify. I do care about production, but the reason why I said I didn't earlier is because I deemed it irrelevant to the topic about the vegan woman and the health benefits of organic foods.

but it does matter. at least to t he overall conversation.

If you cut production by 30% then there will be less food or items. wich will cause items to cost more.

One reason many poor are obese is that junk food is actually cheaper then the good healthy stuff. Less vegies means they will cost more.


i really dont care either way. i grow my tomatoes. peas etc that i enjoy eating heh.
 

Legend

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2005
2,254
1
0
One reason many poor are obese is that junk food is actually cheaper then the good healthy stuff. Less vegies means they will cost more.

True, but it's not that much more expensive.

I shop mostly at walmart. You can get a huge bag of whole wheat rice for just a little more than white rice. Green bell peppers, spinach, brocoli, strawberries are cheap for some healthy stuff. Baked chicken is $4. Lean beef is like $2.

I'm not saying it isn't more expensive, I'm just saying that there seems to be this illusion that health food is expensive from people who seem to think that healthy food is that premade salty junk in the frozen food isle.

What certainly is expensive is fast food. If I ate at Subway 2/times a day, $7 per meal, that's like $100/week
 

JoeKing

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,641
1
81
people eat because it makes them feel good.

I say we should start dumping prozac into the water supply.
 

CreativeTom

Banned
May 10, 2005
1,092
0
0
I haven't seen the movie, only heard about it. I think the point is if you eat there everyday 3 times a day for a month look what happens to you and how sick it makes you. With that said I think you need to see that eating it a few times a week over years will eventually catch up with you and cause some serious health problems. I think you need to look at why this country is so Obese and it's obsession with Fast Food, they do coincide with each other.
 

Although I haven't seen the movie in question, I'll say this much: It isn't so much about eating McDonald's everyday for 30 days as it is the contents and amounts. If you feed on only McDonald's everyday, and it's your only source of food--no matter how many times that day, you will develop health problems. It's even worse if you only eat one kind of food on their menu, excluding vegetables. If you're overweight, it might take longer for you to experience the symptoms, since you have some vitamins stored in your body for the long run. However, you would eventually notice it. And this is if you even eat a reasonable amount but feed on just their food and nothing else. If you eat too much of it everyday, you'll probably gain weight--in addition to the accompanying illnesses. And if you eat too little as your food for the day, of course we know that as malnutrition, which could happen to anyone, even those who don't eat at McDonald's!
 

edmundoab

Diamond Member
Apr 21, 2003
3,223
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0
www.facebook.com
i understand his point of view about McDonald's
still because it was an extreme situation.

we aren't suppose to treat McDonald's as a meal 3 times a day.
in fact no one would do that no matter how they love McD

honestly, like for me, even once a day could be hard to catch up with as much as I love these burgers.

Side effects of being extreme though. Well noted.
i guess the factor is that he wasn't really exercising too.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,504
20,111
146
Originally posted by: Legend
Again, what do you think they use to fatten up farm animals? McDonald's?

What do you think they use to produce the VERY SAME EFFECTS in geese that Spurlock suffered in the movie? McDonald's?

No, Grains.

Spurlocks symptoms, EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE OF THEM was indicative of gorging, and can be reproduced with ANY FOOD. It is, on a daily basis, reproduced in farm animals using grains.

And, yet again, produce ONE SINGLE peer reviewed, and repeated study showing people who eat organic foods are healthier and/or live longer that people who eat comparable standard foods. You cannot. So please, stop making the "organic is healthier" claim. It's not supported by science.

NOTHING, in excess, is healthy. Moderation and balance is key. As for cholesterol, some people can eat what ever they want, and never have their numbers budge. Other can eat perfectly healthy diets and have high cholsterol. Even Drs are now admitting that cholsterol is more genetics than diet. If you're prone to high cholsterol, than obviously ANY beef or ANY deep fried foods should be avoided (not just the burgers and fies at McDonald's). If not, neither in moderation is going to kill you.


Yes, anything in excess in unhealthy, I agree. But the issue was about someone calling a vegan woman a bitch. Or at least that was my original issue.

I said a balanced orangic food diet.

Of course, this movie is a extreme take on fast food.

You cannot. So please, stop making the "organic is healthier" claim. It's not supported by science.

What the hell. Give me one source saying that pesitcides and herbicides are not bad for you.

http://www.omri.org/NYT_5-8-02.html
http://www.consumersunion.org/food/organicpr.htm

This is common sense. Something without pesticides is better for you than something with. This isn't rocket science. I don't need a silly research paper to tell me something so obvious.



Free range meats are healthier because the animals get a natural diet instead of being fed grains:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/08/health/main592163.shtml
http://uvalde.tamu.edu/rangel/oct01/raHN.pdf
http://www.eatwild.com/health.html
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/4/T041100.asp


As for cholesterol, diet does help.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/02/...ies/health/heartscore/main672603.shtml

Mcdonalds does hurt your LDL and HDL levels.


heh the topic is about eating healthy. How healthy do you think people would be eating if productivity of farmers were cut by even 30%?

People in the US eat too much in general. And of the wrong things. If they ate healthier, they wouldn't eat as much. More food != healthy

Again, there is NO evidence whatsoever that pesticides used SAFELY and RESPONSIBLY in the production of foods causes ANY harm to humans.

There is NO proof that people who eat "organic" foods live longer, or are healtheir than people who eat comparable diets using standard foods. Until this proof is provided, I will continue to call "organic" foods a waste of time and money and the promotion of them to be fear mongering.

You're throwing the baby out with the bath water. The dose makes the poison. Responsible use of pesticides keeps the dose WELL below the poison level, and are partially responsible for the longest lifespan human in history by not only raising food production, but by keeping pestilence at bay.

"Free range" animals have lower fat levels because they are not fattened up using GRAIN by farmers. Again, farm animals are gorged to bring in more money.

Arguably, I LIKE fattened animals. Marbled meat tastes MUCH better and my so-called "bad" cholesterol levels are below normal... so it's safe for me to eat.

At any rate, "free range" is so highly inefficient, it's impossible to feed our population using it.

Cholesterol is mostly genetic. YES, if you are genetically predisposed to high cholesterol, you should avoid fatty foods. However, a large portion of the population can eat a high fat diet and NOT negatively effect their cholesterol.

Eating McDonald's in moderation is no worse than eating any burger or fries in moderation, and will NOT hurt someone who is not genetically predisposed to high cholesterol.

Diets are NOT one size fits all. One size fits all diets and health advice is one of the problems in our society, not a solution.

Let's not forget that the obesity epidemic in the US started directly after the low fat craze started. Fat per calorie consumed in the US DROPPED in the same time span that the obesity epidemic grew.
 

MechJinx

Senior member
Mar 22, 2004
421
0
0
I thought it was quite interesting to see the negative medical impact that eating at McDonalds every day had on him. I know it was extreme and that any sane person would not do what he did. But, it was interesting to watch, nonetheless.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
57,504
20,111
146
Originally posted by: CreativeTom
I haven't seen the movie, only heard about it. I think the point is if you eat there everyday 3 times a day for a month look what happens to you and how sick it makes you. With that said I think you need to see that eating it a few times a week over years will eventually catch up with you and cause some serious health problems. I think you need to look at why this country is so Obese and it's obsession with Fast Food, they do coincide with each other.

Flatly wrong. Fast food has been in the US since the 50s. Fat per calorie consumed in the US has DROPPED since the late 70s. The obesity epidemic started slowly in the mid-late 80s and got it's legs in the 90s.

The ONLY correlation to the obesity epidemic is our change in lifestyles. The rise in popularity of cable/sat TV, video games and the Internet has a generation of people sitting on their asses all day long. Combine this with our move to a service based society where even the lower middle classes have people cleaning their homes, washing their cars and doing their yard work and you have the largest drop in activity levels in history.

Finally, combine this drop in activity levels with the number one thing to do while lying around: MUNCHING. While fat per calorie dropped, grain and sugar intake jumped considerably by 300 calories a day. In fact, the 300 calorie rise per person, per day in the last 20 years has been mostly grains (carbs).

Meat makes up very little in the increase of calories per day, per person in the last 20 years.

What are most snack foods?

Grains.

Look at your local market. Chips now have an entire aisle, when just 30 years ago, they were lucky to have 15 feet of an aisle. Cookies have their own aisle now too, and so do crackers. Snack cakes take up half, or more of the bread aisles today. A much larger % of supermarket space is now devoted to munchies... why?

Because munching is what people do when lying around. And there are far more people lying around demanding munchies, so the food producers have jumped on the money train.

Fast food is in no way to blame for obesity. In fact, food period is not to blame. Foods have changed very litte when compaired to pre-obesity epidemic times. What HAS changed considerably is our lifestyles and munching habits.
 

sandman018

Member
Mar 13, 2005
170
0
0
Originally posted by: AMDZen


Second, the point the OP brought up - nobody is going to eat McDonalds 3 times a day, every day.

i dunno, I worked there for a summer during HS, and I saw the same damned customers there for breakfast, lunch, and dinner at least 5 days a week

 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
I don't care about the whole organic debate, but I'm with Amused when it comes to exercise vs. fast food. I don't believe for a second that even if we completely eliminated fast food from our country that people would suddenly slim down. Exercise is the component that most fat people don't get. If it was a change in diet, then things like eating Weight Watchers meal plans would work. However they don't. People do them for a while, see no change (because they're not getting exercise) and drop the diet. It's just a fact that if you consume more calories than you expend, no matter what kind of food those calories are from, you're going to gain weight.
 

cKGunslinger

Lifer
Nov 29, 1999
16,411
57
91
Originally posted by: vi_edit

And I wish you paid by weight at buffets. You weigh 450 pounds? Okay that'll be $15.00. You only weigh 100 pounds? That'll be $5.00.

I know it's not remotely feasible (or legal), but it makes more sense. There are exceptions where a little 100 pound thing can eat 5 pounds of food, but it's just not as common as a 450 pound dirigible of a person that has a table full of empty plates piled up in front of them. Weigh in and pay up piggy!

Oooo.. or even better, they could charge people based on how much food they get. Maybe like a fixed price for each dish, provided up front in some sort of pamplet form, and you can order as many dishes as you'd like to pay for!

:roll:
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,484
8,345
126
If it was a change in diet, then things like eating Weight Watchers meal plans would work.

Technically, weight watchers is the most successful program for weight loss. If you are only approaching weight loss from an eating standpoint, anyway. WW beats out any other diet plan for long term weight loss and the ability to keep it off.

Excerise is incredibly important. But, if you are still shoveling in 2x as much as you are burning, the point is moot. WW approaches weight loss from a reasonable standpoint in that you don't limit food types. You limit how much you eat. Plus there is a moral support group built in which works well for women, but not so much men.

You won't ever get in shape using WW, but you will lose weight and keep it off if you follow what they have to say.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
its all hippy feel good mumbo jumbo. until there are real scientific studies showing organics health benifits, foods food. don't be deluded into thinking mother nature is there for taking care of you. mother nature doesn't care. most natural things are harmful because its there to preserve its own well being, not yours.


The very worst thing about organic farming requires the use of a word that doomsaying environmentalists have practically trademarked: It's not sustainable. Few activities are as wasteful as organic farming. Its yields are about half of what conventional farmers expect at harvest time. Norman Borlaug, who won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1970 for his agricultural innovations, has said, "You couldn't feed more than 4 billion people" on an all-organic diet.

If organic-food consumers think they're making a political statement when they eat, they're correct: They're declaring themselves to be not only friends of population control, but also enemies of environmental conservation. About half the world's land area that isn't covered with ice or sand is devoted to food production. Modern farming techniques have enabled this limited supply to produce increasing quantities of food. Yields have fattened so much in the last few decades that people refer to this phenomenon as the "Green Revolution," a term that has nothing to do with enviro-greenies and everything to do with improvements in breeding, fertilization, and irrigation. Yet even greater challenges lie ahead, because demographers predict that world population will rise to 9 billion by 2050. "The key is to produce more food," says Alex Avery of CGFI. "Growing more per acre leaves more land for nature." The alternative is to chop down rainforests so that we may dine on organic soybeans.

And what about the health risks from eating those manure-grown sprouts? Here's one final excerpt from Miller's article, where he describes the organic brand of fertilizer creating a:

... luscious breeding grounds for all kinds of nasty microbes. Take the dreaded E. coli, which is capable of killing people who ingest it. A study by the Center for Global Food Issues found that although organic foods make up about 1 percent of America's diet, they also account for about 8 percent of confirmed E. coli cases.

Organic food products also suffer from more than eight times as many recalls as conventional ones. Some of this problem would go away if organic farmers used synthetic sprays -- but this, too, is off limits. Conventional wisdom says that we should avoid food that's been drenched in herbicides, pesticides, and fungicides. Half a century ago, there was some truth in this: Sprays were primitive and left behind chemical deposits that often survived all the way to the dinner table. Today's sprays, however, are largely biodegradable. They do their job in the field and quickly break down into harmless molecules.

What's more, advances in biotechnology have reduced the need to spray. About one-third of America's corn crop is now genetically modified. This corn includes a special gene that produces a natural toxin that's safe for every living creature to eat except caterpillars with alkaline guts, such as the European corn borer, a moth larva that can ravage whole harvests. This kind of biotech innovation has helped farmers reduce their reliance on pesticides by about 50 million pounds per year.

Organic farmers, of course, don't benefit from any of this. But they do have some recourse against the bugs, weeds, and fungi that can devastate a crop: They spray their plants with "natural" pesticides. These are less effective than synthetic ones and they're certainly no safer. In rat tests, rotenone -- an insecticide extracted from the roots of tropical plants -- has been shown to cause the symptoms of Parkinson's disease. The Environmental Protection Agency has described pyrethrum, another natural bug killer, as a human carcinogen. Everything is lethal in massive quantities, of course, and it takes huge doses of pyrethrum to pose a health hazard. Still, the typical organic farmer has to douse his crops with it as many as seven times to have the same effect as one or two applications of a synthetic compound based on the same ingredients. Then there's one of the natural fungicides preferred by organic coffee growers in Guatemala: fermented urine. Think about that the next time you're tempted to order the "special brew" at your local organic java hut. http://www.consumerfreedom.com/news_detail.cfm/headline/2334



The organic myth: a food movement makes a pest of itself
National Review, Feb 9, 2004 by John J. Miller
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Save a personal copy of this article and quickly find it again with Furl.net. It's free! Save it.

SOMEWHERE in the cornfields of Britain, a hungry insect settled on a tall green stalk and decided to have a feast. It chewed into a single kernel of corn, filled its little belly, and buzzed off--leaving behind a tiny hole that was big enough to invite a slow decay. The agent of the decomposition was a fungus known to biologists as Fusarium. Farmers have a much simpler name for it: corn ear rot.

As the mold spread inside the corn, it left behind a cancer-causing residue called fumonisin. This sequence repeated itself thousands and thousands of times until the infested corn was harvested and sold last year as Fresh and Wild Organic Maize Meal, Infinity Foods Organic Maize Meal, and several other products.

Consuming trace amounts of fumonisin is harmless, but large doses can be deadly. Last fall, the United Kingdom's Food Standards Agency detected alarming concentrations of the toxin in all six brands of organic corn meal subjected to testing--for a failure rate of 100 percent. The average level of contamination was almost 20 times higher than the safety threshold Europeans have set for fumonisin. The tainted products were immediately recalled from the food chain. In contrast, inspectors determined that 20 of the 24 non-organic corn meal products they examined were unquestionably safe to eat.
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Despite this, millions of people continue to assume that organic foods are healthier than non-organic ones, presumably because they grow in pristine settings free from icky chemicals and creepy biotechnology. This has given birth to an energetic political movement. In 2002, activists in Oregon sponsored a ballot initiative that essentially would have required the state to slap biohazard labels on anything that wasn't produced in ways deemed fit by anti-biotech agitators. Voters rejected it, but the cause continues to percolate. Hawaiian legislators are giving serious thought to banning biotech crop tests in their state. In March, California's Mendocino County may outlaw biotech plantings altogether.

Beneath it all lurks the belief that organic food is somehow better for us. In one poll, two-thirds of Americans said that organic food is healthier. But they're wrong: It's no more nutritious than food fueled by industrial fertilizers, sprayed with synthetic pesticides, and genetically altered in science labs. And the problem isn't limited to the fungal infections that recently cursed organic corn meal in Britain; bacteria are a major source of disease in organic food as well. To complicate matters further, organic farming is incredibly inefficient. If its appeal ever grew beyond the boutique, it would pose serious threats to the environment. Consumers who go shopping for products emblazoned with the USDA's "organic" seal of approval aren't really helping themselves or the planet--and they're arguably hurting both.

NO FEAR

Here's the good news: At no point in human history has food been safer than it is today, despite occasional furors like the recent one over an isolated case of mad-cow disease here in the U.S. People still get sick from food--each year, about 76 million Americans pick up at least a mild illness from what they put in their mouths--but modern agricultural methods have sanitized our fare to the point where we may eat without fear. This is true for all food, organic or otherwise.

And that raises a semantic question: What is it about organic food that makes it "organic"? The food we think of as nonorganic isn't really inorganic, as if it were composed of rocks and minerals. In truth, everything we eat is organic--it's just not "organic" the way the organic-food movement has come to define the word.

About a decade ago, the federal government decided to wade into this semantic swamp. There was no compelling reason for this, but Congress nonetheless called for the invention of a National Organic Rule. It became official in 2002. Organic food, said the bureaucrats, is produced without synthetic fertilizers, conventional pesticides, growth hormones, genetic engineering, or germ-killing radiation. There are also varying levels of organic-ness: Special labels are available for products that are "made with organic ingredients" (which means the food is 70 percent organic), "organic" (which means 95 percent organic), and "100 percent organic." It's not at all clear what consumers are supposed to do with this information. As the Department of Agriculture explains on its website, the "USDA makes no claims that organically produced food is safer or more nutritious than conventionally produced food."

It doesn't because it can't: There's no scientific evidence whatsoever showing that organic food is healthier. So why bother with a National Organic Rule? When the thing was in development, the Clinton administration's secretary of agriculture, Dan Glickman, offered an answer: "The organic label is a marketing tool. It is not a statement about food safety." In other words, those USDA labels are intended to give people warm fuzzies for buying pricey food.

And herein lies one of the dirty secrets of organic farming: It's big business. Although the organic movement has humble origins, today most of its food isn't produced on family farms in quaint villages or even on hippie communes in Vermont. Instead, the industry has come to be dominated by large corporations that are normally the dreaded bogeymen in the minds of many organic consumers. A single company currently controls about 70 percent of the market in organic milk. California grows about $400 million per year in organic produce--and about half of it comes from just five farms. The membership list of the Organic Trade Association includes the biggest names in agribusiness, such as Archer Daniels Midland, Gerber, and Heinz. Even Nike is a member. When its capitalist slavedrivers aren't exploiting child labor in Third World sweatshops (as they do in the fevered imaginations of campus protesters), they're promoting Nike Organics, a clothing line made from organic cotton.

THE YUM FACTOR

There are, in fact, good reasons to eat organic food. Often it's yummier--though this has nothing to do with the fact that it's "organic." If an organic tomato tastes better than a non-organic one, the reason is usually that it has been grown locally, where it has ripened on the vine and taken only a day or two to get from the picking to the selling. Large-scale farming operations that ship fruits and vegetables across the country or the world can't compete with this kind of homegrown quality, even though they do make it possible for people in Minnesota to avoid scurvy by eating oranges in February. Conventional produce is also a good bargain because organic foods can be expensive--the profit margins are quite high, relative to the rest of the food industry.

Unfortunately, money isn't always the sole cost. Although the overwhelming majority of organic foods are safe to eat, they aren't totally risk-free. Think of it this way: Organic foods may be fresh, but they're also fresh from the manure fields.

Organic farmers aren't allowed to enrich their soils the way most non-organic farmers do, which is with nitrogen fertilizers produced through an industrial process. In their place, many farmers rely on composted manure. When they spread the stuff in their fields, they create luscious breeding grounds for all kinds of nasty microbes. Take the dreaded E. coli, which is capable of killing people who ingest it. A study by the Center for Global Food Issues found that although organic foods make up about 1 percent of America's diet, they also account for about 8 percent of confirmed E. coli cases. Organic food products also suffer from more than eight times as many recalls as conventional ones.

Some of this problem would go away if organic farmers used synthetic sprays--but this, too, is off limits. Conventional wisdom says that we should avoid food that's been drenched in herbicides, pesticides, and fungicides. Half a century ago, there was some truth in this: Sprays were primitive and left behind chemical deposits that often survived all the way to the dinner table. Today's sprays, however, are largely biodegradable. They do their job in the field and quickly break down into harmless molecules. What's more, advances in biotechnology have reduced the need to spray. About one-third of America's corn crop is now genetically modified. This corn includes a special gene that produces a natural toxin that's safe for every living creature to eat except caterpillars with alkaline guts, such as the European corn borer, a moth larva that can ravage whole harvests. This kind of biotech innovation has helped farmers reduce their reliance on pesticides by about 50 million pounds per year.
Organic farmers, of course, don't benefit from any of this. But they do have some recourse against the bugs, weeds, and fungi that can devastate a crop: They spray their plants with "natural" pesticides. These are less effective than synthetic ones and they're certainly no safer. In rat tests, rotenone--an insecticide extracted from the roots of tropical plants--has been shown to cause the symptoms of Parkinson's disease. The Environmental Protection Agency has described pyrethrum, another natural bug killer, as a human carcinogen. Everything is lethal in massive quantities, of course, and it takes huge doses of pyrethrum to pose a health hazard. Still, the typical organic farmer has to douse his crops with it as many as seven times to have the same effect as one or two applications of a synthetic compound based on the same ingredients. Then there's one of the natural fungicides preferred by organic coffee growers in Guatemala: fermented urine. Think about that the next time you're tempted to order the "special brew" at your local organic java hut.

ST. ANTHONY'S FIRE, ETC.

Fungicides are worth taking seriously--and not just because they might have prevented Britain's corn meal problem a few months ago. Before the advent of modern farming, when all agriculture was necessarily "organic," food-borne fungi were a major problem. One of the worst kinds was ergot, which affects rye, wheat, and other grains. During the Middle Ages, ergot poisoning caused St. Anthony's Fire, a painful contraction of blood vessels that often led to gangrene in limb extremities and sometimes death. Hallucinations also were common, as ergot contains lysergic acid, which is the crucial component of LSD. Historians of medieval Europe have documented several episodes of towns eating large batches of ergot-polluted food and falling into mass hysteria. There is some circumstantial evidence suggesting that ergot was behind the madness of the Salem witches: The warm and damp weather just prior to the infamous events of 1692 would have been ideal for an outbreak. Today, however, chemical sprays have virtually eradicated this affliction.

The very worst thing about organic farming requires the use of a word that doomsaying environmentalists have practically trademarked: It's not sustainable. Few activities are as wasteful as organic farming. Its yields are about half of what conventional farmers expect at harvest time. Norman Borlaug, who won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1970 for his agricultural innovations, has said, "You couldn't feed more than 4 billion people" on an allorganic diet.

If organic-food consumers think they're making a political statement when they eat, they're correct: They're declaring themselves to be not only friends of population control, but also enemies of environmental conservation. About half the world's land area that isn't covered with ice or sand is devoted to food production. Modern farming techniques have enabled this limited supply to produce increasing quantities of food. Yields have fattened so much in the last few decades that people refer to this phenomenon as the "Green Revolution," a term that has nothing to do with enviro-greenies and everything to do with improvements in breeding, fertilization, and irrigation. Yet even greater challenges lie ahead, because demographers predict that world population will rise to 9 billion by 2050. "The key is to produce more food," says Alex Avery of CGFI. "Growing more per acre leaves more land for nature." The alternative is to chop down rainforests so that we may dine on organic soybeans.

There's one more important reason that organics can't feed the world: There just isn't enough cow poop to go around. For fun, pretend that U.N. secretary-general Kofi Annan chowed on some ergot rye, decreed that all of humanity must eat nothing but organic food, and that all of humanity responded by saying, "What the heck, we'll give it a try." Forget about the population boom ahead. The immediate problem would be generating enough manure to fertilize all the brand-new, low-yield organic crop fields. There are a little more than a billion cattle in the world today, and each bovine needs between 3 and 30 acres to support it. Conservative estimates say it would take around 7 or 8 billion cattle to produce sufficient heaps of manure to sustain our all-organic diets. The United States alone would need about a billion head (or rear, to be precise). The country would be made up of nothing but cities and manure fields--and the experiment would give a whole new meaning to the term "fruited plains."

This is the sort of future the organic-food movement envisions--and its most fanatical advocates aren't planning to win any arguments on the merits or any consumers on the quality of organic food. In December, when a single U.S. animal was diagnosed with mad-cow disease, nobody was more pleased than Ronnie Cummins of the Organic Consumers Association, who has openly hoped for a public scare that would spark a "crisis of confidence" in American food. No such thing happened, but Cummins should be careful about what he wishes for: Germany's first case of mad-cow disease surfaced at a slaughterhouse that specializes in organic beef.

But then wishful thinking is at the heart of the organic-food movement. Its whole market rationale depends on the misperception that organic foods are somehow healthier for both consumers and Mother Earth. Just remember: Nature's Valley can't be found on any map. It's a state of mind.

COPYRIGHT 2004 National Review, Inc.
COPYRIGHT 2005 Gale Group
 

Legend

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2005
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"Free range" animals have lower fat levels because they are not fattened up using GRAIN by farmers. Again, farm animals are gorged to bring in more money.

You completely missed the point. Free range animals have less saturated fat and more omega 3 fats. It's healthier. You obviously didn't read anything I linked. I posted mine, where's your evidence?


You're throwing the baby out with the bath water. The dose makes the poison. Responsible use of pesticides keeps the dose WELL below the poison level, and are partially responsible for the longest lifespan human in history by not only raising food production, but by keeping pestilence at bay.

I don't believe that it's binary. It isn't a switch. There is a grey area between no harm and poison levels.

Again, I don't need evidence to know that a little bit of poison, not enough to kill you or do immediately noticable harm, is still bad for you nonetheless.

Maybe you need an example...alcohol?


Cholesterol is mostly genetic. YES, if you are genetically predisposed to high cholesterol, you should avoid fatty foods

That's not true. Omega 3 fats help reduce cholesterol.

And cholesterol is not mostly genetic. It is mostly diet with some genetic influence.


Eating McDonald's in moderation is no worse than eating any burger or fries in moderation, and will NOT hurt someone who is not genetically predisposed to high cholesterol.

Do you know what transfats are? I'd like my fries without it, thanks.



Let's not forget that the obesity epidemic in the US started directly after the low fat craze started. Fat per calorie consumed in the US DROPPED in the same time span that the obesity epidemic grew.

Something you said that's actually true. Fats from fish, nuts, vegetables are good for you and people need to eat more.


What are most snack foods?

Grains.

All grains are equal? I think not. Do you even understand what whole grain is? The reason I ask is continue to blame things on grains. To blame it on whole grains would be very wrong. And grains are by default whole, until they are butchered into "food".

Diets are NOT one size fits all. One size fits all diets and health advice is one of the problems in our society, not a solution.

I said everyone should eat healthier. Did I say everyone should get healthier with the same exact diet?