Sunday Sermon

[Nik]

But your self-awareness feels there is no consequences to your actions in private.

Speak for yourself. That's called integrity, sir, and you don't need god to have integrity.

There are social evolutions that come about from things done in private. You think watching adult movies is ok because it has no consequences, but only because you don't know what the consequences are. Anyone can watch adult movies thanks to their popularity, even kids.

Okay, so how has my watching porn affected anything? Please, educate me.

Why shouldn't kids watch adult movies? Because they don't "get it" or is it because it is wrong? Well if it is wrong, why does it somehow become right, and when does that magical moment occur? And if morality is based on what is socially acceptable, then it has nothing to do with self-awareness or consequences either. In fact, morality doesn't exist if right and wrong is based on what is socially acceptable, in private or public.

The "right" moment is when they're curious about it. Before they understand that sort of behavior is the wrong moment. However, when they start asking questions or you find them looking at the opposite sex differently or find them peekin at porn on teh intartoobes, it's time.

Morality isn't black and white. Morality IS determined by socially acceptable behavior.

That doesn't mean some people don't make standards that are pointless, but it does mean standards should be beyond what we might think is ok.

Who are you to tell me what to think? Who are you to tell me what I should think is moral or immoral?

After all, Hitler just thought he was doing what is right.

According to your bible, that's not true. Right and wrong are written on man's heart and he knows right from wrong from birth whether he admits it or not. That's what your bible says; are you going to contradict the bible now?

 

[Malak]

Why can't you define a good person without god?

God clearly does not exist. Morality clearly still exists.

What does "ceasing to exist" have to do with the fabricated idea of a creator and greater being?

But God clearly does exist. Nik we can go all day back and forth saying, "Yes he does. No he doesn't" but you know just as well as I do that it will never end. In the end, I know for a fact God exists while you only speculate he doesn't, so your arguments are not only moot but they have no relevance in my discussions. If you had left your post at the first sentence, you would have wanted meaningful converse, but your second sentence proves once again you don't. You just want to threadcrap with your relentless hate of God. Something you didn't used to do.

You can't possibly know why religious belief was created.

Personally, I believe that religion was created as a method for men without power (poor class) to have power over the noble class.

I would think it's more along the lines that you think men use religion to control others, but that wasn't necessarily the original point of any religion.

 

[Nik]

Sure as shit I can't 100% know, but based on what I know about myself that's what I would've done. If the "poor class" acheived power then they did a shitty job passing it down.

Why would they want to pass it down? It's a "club" just like any other club. Like cliques in high school, like socially evolving groups at work, people tend to group with like-minded individuals and shun unlike-minded individuals.

Remember, this is over thousands and thousands and thousands of years, though.

I really doubt the Christianity was anywhere near the first religion, either.

 

[Nik]

But God clearly does exist.

Prove it.

Nik we can go all day back and forth saying, "Yes he does. No he doesn't" but you know just as well as I do that it will never end. In the end, I know for a fact God exists while you only speculate he doesn't

Where are these "facts" that prove to you that god exists?

, so your arguments are not only moot but they have no relevance in my discussions.

That's called being a bigot. You're admitting to being a typical religious bigot? Okay. That'll make this even more fun.

If you had left your post at the first sentence, you would have wanted meaningful converse, but your second sentence proves once again you don't. You just want to threadcrap with your relentless hate of God. Something you didn't used to do.

No, I want you to stop shoving shit down people's throat. There are enough gullible people in the world; we don't need one of them suckering any more into some completely baseless religion and turning them into yet another mindless sheep.

I would think it's more along the lines that you think men use religion to control others, but that wasn't necessarily the original point of any religion.

How do you know what the original point of any religion was? Please, educate me. Show me what you've seen or read to bring me to that conclusion.

 

[Malak]

No, I want you to stop shoving shit down people's throat. There are enough gullible people in the world; we don't need one of them suckering any more into some completely baseless religion and turning them into yet another mindless sheep.

As I've told you before, you are the only one shoving. My post was expressing a point about respect, something clearly lost on you.

 

[ch33zw1z]

But your self-awareness feels there is no consequences to your actions in private. There are social evolutions that come about from things done in private. You think watching adult movies is ok because it has no consequences, but only because you don't know what the consequences are. Anyone can watch adult movies thanks to their popularity, even kids.

Why shouldn't kids watch adult movies? Because they don't "get it" or is it because it is wrong? Well if it is wrong, why does it somehow become right, and when does that magical moment occur? And if morality is based on what is socially acceptable, then it has nothing to do with self-awareness or consequences either. In fact, morality doesn't exist if right and wrong is based on what is socially acceptable, in private or public.

That doesn't mean some people don't make standards that are pointless, but it does mean standards should be beyond what we might think is ok. After all, Hitler just thought he was doing what is right.

That's a whole lot of if's you're tossing out. Bottom line, morals vary greatly from person to person...hell even religion to religion.

How do you know why I think adult movies are ok? Did you ask me? My self awareness teaches me this: Do what you will until it has detrimental effects on the people around you. So yea, watching adult movies with kids isn't "ok" because it can be detrimental to their development. It doesn't take a genius to figure that one out. Shit, even watching them with my wife would be detrimental if it effected our marriage, again....that is something that is between a husband and a wife in the privacy of their own home.

You brought up Hitler? lol...He was a mental case with an amphetamine problem and half jewish(a seriously disturbed man), it didn't take a genius back then to figure out that slaughtering millions of people wasn't socially acceptable.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I really doubt the Christianity was anywhere near the first religion, either.

yea, it wasn't...now get to researchin'. and thanks for hte backup on the pr0n stuff...it's just an example of "one mans trash, another mans treasure"

 

[kranky]

There is nothing more distasteful to me than people who pervert Christianity to further their own selfish aims, like the televangelists who have the "name it and claim it" message. I have good friends where the husband has berated his wife (who has multiple sclerosis) saying if she just had more faith, she would not be sick. Yet she puts in 15-20 hours a week rebuilding bathrooms for people who need repairs and can't afford to pay someone to do it, on top of a full-time job. He is enamored of some TV preacher who insists if you have enough faith, you can have everything you want... oh, and you'll also need to make a "seed offering" to show God that you are serious. Bah.

I agree that it is difficult to love your enemies but that's what Christians are called to do. It can be especially hard when someone has caused you harm - someone who lied and got someone fired, for example. But Christians are supposed to model Christ's behavior and love their enemies.

 

[ch33zw1z]

There is nothing more distasteful to me than people who pervert Christianity to further their own selfish aims, like the televangelists who have the "name it and claim it" message. I have good friends where the husband has berated his wife (who has multiple sclerosis) saying if she just had more faith, she would not be sick. Yet she puts in 15-20 hours a week rebuilding bathrooms for people who need repairs and can't afford to pay someone to do it, on top of a full-time job. He is enamored of some TV preacher who insists if you have enough faith, you can have everything you want... oh, and you'll also need to make a "seed offering" to show God that you are serious. Bah.

Wow, just wow. It's amazing to me what some people will swallow.

 

[Nik]

As I've told you before, you are the only one shoving. My post was expressing a point about respect, something clearly lost on you.

Who cares? Presentation is NOT everything. The message itself is everything.

Your message: "A bunch of stuff is real when there's no proof it's real!"
Me: "Show me"
You: "Well you just have to assume it's real."

Come on, stop dancing around the bush and address the real issues I addressed above.

Failure to do so is simply your consession that what you believe really is bullshit.

How can you believe that shit without any single shred of evidence?

Let's just get right down to it, yeah? What evidence do you have that Jesus was divine?

 

[dguy6789]

But you cannot define a "good person" by any measure without God. If God didn't exist, morality doesn't exist. Inevitable death makes life irrelevant. People like to attack God for the existence of hell, yet are more willing to believe in the scarier idea of simply ceasing to exist.

There's quite a few baseless assumptions in this post.

 

[Nik]

Still waiting for a non-cop-out reply, Malak. Don't give up, duder. You can do it!

 

[Kadarin]

But God clearly does exist.

Given that God does not produce any measurable effect that is repeatable under controlled conditions, your statement is nothing more than your opinion. It might be an opinion held with a lot of conviction, but it's an opinion nonetheless.

 

[classy]

Organized religion is BS. Matthew 18:20 "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them". You don't need to go sit in church at all...of course, it makes people feel all squishy to get all dressed up and try to impress each other..

That verse has nothing to do with going to church. That verse is about prayer.

Hebrews 10:24-25 deals with going church

24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works,
25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

And someone mentioned the sabbath and saturday. The reason christians go to church on Sunday is that is the day Christ rose. The church is a dispensation of Jesus in the new testament which is the new covenant, not the old covenant which if we were still under, we would assemble together on Saturday.

As for kranky's example its typical. For every fouled up christian there are literally dozens who do live right. And be careful to judge a preacher on the actions of some person who claims to follow a preacher. Its kinda funny sometimes. People never read the bible, so they don't really know what it says. It is perfectly normal for bad people to be in the church. That's the perfect plan of the devil. And God just exposes the bad preachers in due time, every single time. But Satan is good, real good.

If most people actually read the several hundred scriptures that talk about Satan, most people wouldn't sleep for a week. When judgement day comes, Jesus said he wil start with those in the church first, not the world.

As for Nik, he shouldn't argue with you. Paul wrote in Titus that you are not haggle over the word. If you don't believe then thats okay. If you think a person doesn't need God to be good, than who can say you are wrong. But that's what you believe. If its not for you then its not for you, speak your piece, as you have, then Live and let Live.

 

[KeithTalent]

But you cannot define a "good person" by any measure without God. If God didn't exist, morality doesn't exist. Inevitable death makes life irrelevant. People like to attack God for the existence of hell, yet are more willing to believe in the scarier idea of simply ceasing to exist.

What the hell are you talking about? This is absolute nonsense.

KT

 

[ch33zw1z]

That verse has nothing to do with going to church. That verse is about prayer.

Hebrews 10:24-25 deals with going church

24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works,
25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

Those two don't directly say "go to church". "Assembling of ourselves" could just as well be "2 or more". I love scripture, so much is left to interpretation. And why go to church when 2 or more brings god into your presence. Isn't that what it's really all about? lol...

 

[Nik]

As for Nik, he shouldn't argue with you. Paul wrote in Titus that you are not haggle over the word. If you don't believe then thats okay. If you think a person doesn't need God to be good, than who can say you are wrong. But that's what you believe. If its not for you then its not for you, speak your piece, as you have, then Live and let Live.

The bible says that you are categorically wrong. It is your Christian obligation to spread the word, to act like a VIRUS. It is your god-given obligation to shove your religion down everyone else's throat.

 

[Nik]

Those two don't directly say "go to church". "Assembling of ourselves" could just as well be "2 or more". I love scripture, so much is left to interpretation. And why go to church when 2 or more brings god into your presence. Isn't that what it's really all about? lol...

Classy thinks that the physical building people gathering in being called a church is what makes the difference.

Apparently he doesn't realize that "two or more gathered in my name" is church no matter where you are.

 

[classy]

Classy thinks that the physical building people gathering in being called a church is what makes the difference.

Apparently he doesn't realize that "two or more gathered in my name" is church no matter where you are.

The church is not the physical building. Its the people. But he said you don't have to go to church, the physical building. That would be wrong according to Hebrews, Acts, Corithians, and even parts of James. All through the new testament the assembly together of christians on a regular basis is seen. Its not even up for discussion or interpretation, at least not that aspect of a christians life.

 

[ch33zw1z]

If most people actually read the several hundred scriptures that talk about Satan, most people wouldn't sleep for a week. When judgement day comes, Jesus said he wil start with those in the church first, not the world.

They sure knew how to scare the shit out of people didn't they? I know it scared me for the 15 years I went to church 3 times per week, and not to mention christian school!!

 

[Nik]

The church is not the physical building. Its the people. But he said you don't have to go to church, the physical building. That would be wrong according to Hebrews, Acts, Corithians, and even parts of James. All through the new testament the assembly together of christians on a regular basis is seen. Its not even up for discussion or interpretation, at least not that aspect of a christians life.

The only thing the Bible tells Christians is not to forsake the gathering of the saints.

You're taking a legalistic approach to it, which the Bible says not to do, too. Hehe.

 

[Malak]

Those two don't directly say "go to church". "Assembling of ourselves" could just as well be "2 or more". I love scripture, so much is left to interpretation. And why go to church when 2 or more brings god into your presence. Isn't that what it's really all about? lol...

Coming together in assembly can happen anywhere, and in fact Jesus never stated it had to be a specific place. That is why we pray whether at church or at Applebees. The point to the verses is that you should come together, anywhere. Grilled chicken and a bear works just as good in communion.

 

[ch33zw1z]

The church is not the physical building. Its the people. But he said you don't have to go to church, the physical building. That would be wrong according to Hebrews, Acts, Corithians, and even parts of James. All through the new testament the assembly together of christians on a regular basis is seen. Its not even up for discussion or interpretation, at least not that aspect of a christians life.

Assembling isn't the same as church as we know it today. So what exactly is your stance on the matter?

 

[ch33zw1z]

Coming together in assembly can happen anywhere, and in fact Jesus never stated it had to be a specific place. That is why we pray whether at church or at Applebees. The point to the verses is that you should come together, anywhere. Grilled chicken and a bear works just as good in communion.

Just another matter of opinion.

 

[Nik]

Coming together in assembly can happen anywhere, and in fact Jesus never stated it had to be a specific place. That is why we pray whether at church or at Applebees. The point to the verses is that you should come together, anywhere. Grilled chicken and a bear works just as good in communion.

Yeah, come together anywhere and everywhere to be collectively stupid.

Yes, fold your fingers together, bow your head, close your eyes, chant to somebody who doesn't exist, and hope REALLY HARD that what you want comes true.

I used to do the same thing, wishing for santa to bring me gifts.