Study: Smoking ban cuts heart attacks

[vi edit]

I would also like to say that I have no desire for an outright banning of smoking. Do it in your car, do it in your house, do it outside. I don't care. I would just like the freedom of being able to walk into a bar, restaurant, or bowling ally without having to endure it and smell like a fscking ashtray when I come out.

 

Here's the thing though - smoking doesn't just affect the smoker. It affects everyone around them. In general drugs, alcohol, and fast food do not affect anyone else. DWI does affect other's, but it is HIGHLY illegal, so that's a somewhat mute argument.

As a nonsmoker, why should I have to go outside for fresh air when I'm not the one bringing in the smoke? When smokers smoke in their car, they roll the windows down. Why is that?

This is very simple, so listen. You have no *RIGHT* to be in ANY private establishment, PERIOD.
If you do not want to be in a smoking establishment, DO NOT GO THERE.
It is as SIMPLE as that. Banning smoking in an office building, govt. buildings, and many restaurants is fine. They are trying to ban it EVERYWHERE.

SO, you name one single place that you go to, that you have to walk outside to get "fresh air". That's such a crock.

Edit: Vi_edit: The whole point of many establishments, is a refuge for people to go drink and smoke. The best bet would be to allow the owner to say if its a smoking or non smoking establishment.

 

[BDawg]

Originally posted by: SammySon

As for my example, it was 1. sarcastic, and 2. in response to the comments "if you don't like my smoking, stay home." If the act of drinking alcohol and not the behavior after the fact killed people who didn't drink, then banning alcohol would be a valid solution.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. See, drinking alcohol DOES KILL YOU. ITS POISON. Although, you probably partake in aclohol, so you overlook the evils.

Smoking should be 100% allowable in BARS. Restaurants are a different story. I live in NY, so up until recently, you could have a 100% closed off smoking area, with proper ventilation.

Wait, isn't Marijuana BANNED? There is a whole long LIST of people marijuana has killed right?

You mean people still do things that are illegal? Someone's working on a PhD in Sociology. Pot is illegal, and because of that people are largely smoking it in non-public places. If smoking were illegal, some people would still do it, but they wouldn't be doing it in public places...just Black Crowes and Tom Petty concerts.

You clipped the part where I said I didn't have as much of a problem with smoking in bars.

 

[Alistar7]

possibly not, how many people get aggravated and a cig helps them calm down? How many more were caused because someone got so infuriated that the gov was trying to tell him what to do he droped right there because he couldnt light up and chill....?

 

[BDawg]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
I would just like the freedom of being able to walk into a bar, restaurant, or bowling ally without having to endure it and smell like a fscking ashtray when I come out.

IMHO, that's almost as bad as the cancer et al. People who smoke just smell horrendous. When I'm around them, so do I. I don't notice it then, but when I leave...

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
I would also like to say that I have no desire for an outright banning of smoking. Do it in your car, do it in your house, do it outside. I don't care. I would just like the freedom of being able to walk into a bar, restaurant, or bowling ally without having to endure it and smell like a fscking ashtray when I come out.

why wouldnt you support an outright ban?

I smoke, I think they should make them illegal or not restrict it at all. If the danger of second smoke is great enough to warrant laws to keep those that do not smoke safe, why isnt the health of the smokers an equal concern? How do you make them safe? easy, gt rid of what endgangers them.

Unless you can provide me one legitimate reason cigs should be legal I won't change my mind on this. What if any benefit is there to smoking?

 

[Alistar7]

Sammyson when did you start smoking? when did you quit? How did you quit?

 

[vi edit]

Edit: Vi_edit: The whole point of many establishments, is a refuge for people to go drink and smoke. The best bet would be to allow the owner to say if its a smoking or non smoking establishment.

I agree to a point. I do tend to visit establishments that either offer a very open building with a good ventilation system, or other establishments that have a properly designed "non smoking" section. One of the bars that I go to actually has a whole half of the bar completely sealed off to the other section so that nonsmokers can go to the bar and not smell like ass when they walk out. I do live in a very liberal(read: smoking nazis) town with very strong anti-smoking regulations, so I have these luxuries provided to me. Many towns don't though.

 

[vi edit]

why wouldnt you support an outright ban?

Ever hear of a thing called the prohibition and see what that sovled? Outright banning does nothing. It just introduces more problems, even worse than what you had to begin with.

 

You mean people still do things that are illegal? Someone's working on a PhD in Sociology. Pot is illegal, and because of that people are largely smoking it in non-public places. If smoking were illegal, some people would still do it, but they wouldn't be doing it in public places...just Black Crowes and Tom Petty concerts.

You are amazingly naive.

EDIT: Sorry, I started smoking when I was 15. I quit when I was 21. In fact, I quit ON my 21st birthday while drinking in a bar. I have never touched a cig since then.

 

[BDawg]

Originally posted by: SammySon

You mean people still do things that are illegal? Someone's working on a PhD in Sociology. Pot is illegal, and because of that people are largely smoking it in non-public places. If smoking were illegal, some people would still do it, but they wouldn't be doing it in public places...just Black Crowes and Tom Petty concerts.

You are amazingly naive.

the same thing could be said for your denseness.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

why wouldnt you support an outright ban?

Ever hear of a thing called the prohibition and see what that sovled? Outright banning does nothing. It just introduces more problems, even worse than what you had to begin with.

alcohol and tobacco are hardly the same things, are there thousands of places where people go tp to hang out and smoke cigs?

You can put gin in some OJ and walk around in public, how would you propose you wold openly smoke in public with cigs being prohibited?

 

An out right ban is going to do NOTHING but put bar owners out of business.

My Gf's family owns about 8 separate bar and restaurant establishments.
They are already looking for someone to buy them out.
Their loss of money is HUGE already, and the law technically isn't in effect intil July.

Also, anyone who wants to bust out the, "well California banned smoking successfully". Guess what, you have about twice as much time you can use for outdoor patios and such, than we do up north.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: SammySon

You mean people still do things that are illegal? Someone's working on a PhD in Sociology. Pot is illegal, and because of that people are largely smoking it in non-public places. If smoking were illegal, some people would still do it, but they wouldn't be doing it in public places...just Black Crowes and Tom Petty concerts.

You are amazingly naive.

EDIT: Sorry, I started smoking when I was 15. I quit when I was 21. In fact, I quit ON my 21st birthday while drinking in a bar. I have never touched a cig since then.

see you supported that fact, if you had waited until you were 18 you probably never would have started, at least statistically a 95% chance you wouldnt have.

We know even teenagers brains are not completely "wired", they lack the ability to comprehend consequences fully, these are the people the tobacco industry NEED to survive, they prey on their naievity.

Did our Govt know the dangers, yes, did they take "campaign donations" and work to keep the FDA from ever controlling this "natural" product, yes, is it natural, lol, wont even answer that one, did they know it was a strictly controlled chemically altered production, yes. Now that the cig comapnies have been found liable for damages their product causes, who gets the money? Is it the citizens the govt sold out? Nope, the $$$ goes to the govt..... hhhmmmmmm

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: SammySon
An out right ban is going to do NOTHING but put bar owners out of business.

My Gf's family owns about 8 separate bar and restaurant establishments.
They are already looking for someone to buy them out.
Their loss of money is HUGE already, and the law technically isn't in effect intil July.

Also, anyone who wants to bust out the, "well California banned smoking successfully". Guess what, you have about twice as much time you can use for outdoor patios and such, than we do up north.

My city banned smoking in all restaurants. To qualify as a restaurant, more than 50% of your income had to come from food sales(instead of alcohol). Initially, sales were down, but once the smoke cleared (HAR HAR) sales were right back up to normal.

 

[Alistar7]

everyone seems to be missing bigger issues on this one as well. Cigs are some of the highest taxed products now, in my foremr state, OHIO, they raised cig taxes to make up for budget shortcomings, as have many cities/states. You cannot base your budget on a tax on a non-essential item.

If you want to go that route, tax toilet paper, everyone uses it, uses it fairly equally, and wont stop....

 

see you supported that fact, if you had waited until you were 18 you probably never would have started, at least statistically a 95% chance you wouldnt have.

We know even teenagers brains are not completely "wired", they lack the ability to comprehend consequences fully, these are the people the tobacco industry NEED to survive, they prey on their naievity.

I did not provide you with the full history of my smoking life. I quit and started a bunch of times. In fact, I quit for about a year when I was 18 or so.
Statistically stats are based on such a small group, that they can be manipulated to support ANY opinion you want. You did learn that in stats class right?

 

[BDawg]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
everyone seems to be missing bigger issues on this one as well. Cigs are some of the highest taxed products now, in my foremr state, OHIO, they raised cig taxes to make up for budget shortcomings, as have many cities/states. You cannot base your budget on a tax on a non-essential item.

If you want to go that route, tax toilet paper, everyone uses it, uses it fairly equally, and wont stop....

Actually, 1 week out of a month, my wife uses a *lot* more of it than I do.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: SammySon
An out right ban is going to do NOTHING but put bar owners out of business.

My Gf's family owns about 8 separate bar and restaurant establishments.
They are already looking for someone to buy them out.
Their loss of money is HUGE already, and the law technically isn't in effect intil July.

Also, anyone who wants to bust out the, "well California banned smoking successfully". Guess what, you have about twice as much time you can use for outdoor patios and such, than we do up north.

My city banned smoking in all restaurants. To qualify as a restaurant, more than 50% of your income had to come from food sales(instead of alcohol). Initially, sales were down, but once the smoke cleared (HAR HAR) sales were right back up to normal.

If it is just one city thats not so bad, if I am a smoker living there and having a cig after dinner means that much to me Iwill go to the next town to eat. If I am a non smoker living in the town next door and it means that much to me to eat in a smoke free enviornment, of course I will go to the town next door. The business might stay the same in both towns, one full of non smokers, the other with all the smokers..

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: Alistar7
everyone seems to be missing bigger issues on this one as well. Cigs are some of the highest taxed products now, in my foremr state, OHIO, they raised cig taxes to make up for budget shortcomings, as have many cities/states. You cannot base your budget on a tax on a non-essential item.

If you want to go that route, tax toilet paper, everyone uses it, uses it fairly equally, and wont stop....

I wish they'd switch cigarettes over to the bottle depost method. Tack on $.05 to each cigarette sold. Set up a "redemption" center like they do with with bottles/cans and then refund the $.05 when the butts are brought back in. State makes some money, and gets the butts off the streets.

🙂

 

[toant103]

i think they should ban smoking in bar.

🙂

 

My city banned smoking in all restaurants. To qualify as a restaurant, more than 50% of your income had to come from food sales(instead of alcohol). Initially, sales were down, but once the smoke cleared (HAR HAR) sales were right back up to normal.

Where do you live? Iowa? As if people have many choices of where to go in such a small area.
This concerns real cities like NYC, Toronto, Boston, Baltimore, Washington DC.

I live in NY, and restaurants banned all smoking, but they didn't take a major hit. Nothing that could stand out in the overall failure of our economy.
Bars are the largest concern. Bars cannot operate without people smoking in them.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: SammySon

see you supported that fact, if you had waited until you were 18 you probably never would have started, at least statistically a 95% chance you wouldnt have.

We know even teenagers brains are not completely "wired", they lack the ability to comprehend consequences fully, these are the people the tobacco industry NEED to survive, they prey on their naievity.

I did not provide you with the full history of my smoking life. I quit and started a bunch of times. In fact, I quit for about a year when I was 18 or so.
Statistically stats are based on such a small group, that they can be manipulated to support ANY opinion you want. You did learn that in stats class right?

statistics are like a bikini, while they may be revelaing, what they hide is essential.

You only "quit" when you don't ever light up again, just like an alcoholic is always "on the wagon".

that stats on when people started smoking is pretty simple though, and most studies have come in around there.

 

[BDawg]

Originally posted by: SammySon

My city banned smoking in all restaurants. To qualify as a restaurant, more than 50% of your income had to come from food sales(instead of alcohol). Initially, sales were down, but once the smoke cleared (HAR HAR) sales were right back up to normal.

Where do you live? Iowa? As if people have many choices of where to go in such a small area.
This concerns real cities like NYC, Toronto, Boston, Baltimore, Washington DC.

I live in NY, and restaurants banned all smoking, but they didn't take a major hit. Nothing that could stand out in the overall failure of our economy.
Bars are the largest concern. Bars cannot operate without people smoking in them.

IIRC, vi lives in the quad cities, so it is a decent sized metro area with other options for dining.

 

[vi edit]

Where do you live? Iowa? As if people have many choices of where to go in such a small area.
This concerns real cities like NYC, Toronto, Boston, Baltimore, Washington DC.

Iowa City. Population of approximately 80k.