Studies show having children sucks, having more children even more so

[MJinZ]

Isn't the argument kinda moot?

Some people will have no kids and can't afford vacations
Some people will have no kids and can afford vacations
Some people will have kids and can't afford vacations
Some people will have kids and can afford vacations

So the study is correct in a way since having children means you have to make personal sacrifices but then we're not talking about the study which says having little money sucks, and having even less money even more so.

Yes, exactly.

People here arguing like not having kids instantly makes you incredibly capable of traveling the world and living as you please.

In both cases, you will need to make good money to do this. Having kids, if you already make good money, does not thus preclude you from doing what you want.

Therefore, the argument that "having kids stops me from traveling the world" is a terrible one. Being POOR stops you from being able to travel the world.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Or perhaps you really have no idea what a gallivanting life of awesomeness costs?

And a 23 year-old internet know-it-all does?

Have you ever actually gone on any overseas vacations and paid for them?

 

[darkxshade]

I made a typo and you know it. I just corrected it.

As I said, you're not getting it. I am not surprised. We're not talking about me specifically, but people in general who don't want kids because they'd rather spend the money on something else. And believe me, in my case, money is a very small part of the reason but we're not discussing me specifically.

$10K can pay for 2 to 3 very nice, multi-week vacations in Europe.

Ok let me help you out there. Having more kids mean buying a bigger house in a better neighborhood. BAM! You just turned your $10k example into possibly hundreds of thousands if not millions.

 

[highland145]

Have you ever actually gone on any overseas vacations and paid for them?

Went to Scotland for 2 weeks with the 16 month old. Kept telling him all those sheep were big dogs. He,he. If you can't mess with your own kid...

 

[Juddog]

This study is a no-brainer. Half of my friends who had a seemingly happy marriage had kids then had a divorce 4-5 years later (no I'm not kidding). Those that survived the bout of depression in the 2-3 year period after the child was born generally stuck together. In a way having children is the true test of a relationship as it can strain the relationship to the breaking point.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Went to Scotland for 2 weeks with the 16 month old. Kept telling him all those sheep were big dogs. He,he. If you can't mess with your own kid...

Haha, I like that.

The wife and I went to France and Italy last November/December for between 2 and 3 weeks. It was an awesome trip but small children would've been bored to tears with the activities we did.

 

[darkxshade]

People here arguing like not having kids instantly makes you incredibly capable of traveling the world and living as you please.

Depends on the ratio of those 4 categories, I would say at the outset that you have to consider the 2 categories of not having kids first. Then you ask yourself if you can afford to go on vacations. If it's no then it's obvious you're at a disadvantage already, I doubt many people are in this category.

If the answer is yes, then it comes down "can I afford kids too?". This is where most people find themselves. So in the end, the decision is to have kids or have vacations but not both... again at least in the outset. But things can change over time. The reason you're all arguing is because you're arguing in absolutes as if thing can't change for the better or worse. Also rare are those who start off able to afford both as well.

 

[nick1985]

So you have 1 month of vacation a year. Wow, what kind of awesome, wild, crazy adventures are you going to do?

1 month a year, on top of the 12+ days I get off anyway for national hoidays. So about 1.5 months total.

*edit*

I just saw you were 23. I'm guessing you are just some dumbass little kid fresh out of college that thinks they know how the world works. I hope I wasn't as stupid as you 2 years ago.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

1 month a year, on top of the 12+ days I get off anyway for national hoidays. So about 1.5 months total.

*edit*

I just saw you were 23. I'm guessing you are just some dumbass little kid fresh out of college that thinks they know how the world works. I hope I wasn't as stupid as you 2 years ago.

Haha, yeah, he is young and perhaps naive, but I'd give almost anything to be 23 again. Although I think my arrogant and dumbass stage was earlier, say in the mid teens. I SO regret some of the things I did/said back then. I guess that's for another thread though.

 

[ichy]

People here arguing like not having kids instantly makes you incredibly capable of traveling the world and living as you please.

In both cases, you will need to make good money to do this. Having kids, if you already make good money, does not thus preclude you from doing what you want.

You don't need to make lots of money to go on an international trip. This past May I went with a friend to Madrid for a week for a very modest cost. The airfare was by far the biggest expense, but it was still relatively affordable since I only had to pay for myself. If I have kids I'll have to say goodbye to those kinds of adventures, and that gives me great pause.

 

[her209]

But if you don't have kids, how do you make yourself feel superior to those around you?

lol

Have you ever been couples that are expecting? Some of them act like they just cured cancer or something. Not all of them are like this, but I would say a majority are.

 

[MJinZ]

You don't need to make lots of money to go on an international trip. This past May I went with a friend to Madrid for a week for a very modest cost. The airfare was by far the biggest expense, but it was still relatively affordable since I only had to pay for myself. If I have kids I'll have to say goodbye to those kinds of adventures, and that gives me great pause.

So here's the problem.

BMW or kids?
Madrid or kids?

Now, you guys are not talking about living the carefree life, just the occasional trip or two.

So if the issue is money, not parental responsibility, then the issue is money - get it clear.

If the issue is money, the solution is to make more money and advance yourself - not to take trips over having kids and a family.

 

[Wyndru]

A coworker of mine with no kids just hit 40 recently and just today when I showed pics of our newborn at the office, everyone was making comments to him like "see what you are missing?". I don't like that people can't comprehend not having kids, and it is extremely rude that they did this. He looked really embarrased too. I know a lot of people that either can't have kids, or don't have kids because they don't want them, and they are fine with it. I'm surprised people would think saying something like this would be appropriate.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

So if the issue is money, not parental responsibility, then the issue is money - get it clear.

If the issue is money, the solution is to make more money and advance yourself - not to take trips over having kids and a family.

For many of us, it is a variety of factors. To be honest, the biggest factor for me is parental responsibility. I don't want to have it.

 

[MJinZ]

For many of us, it is a variety of factors. To be honest, the biggest factor for me is parental responsibility. I don't want to have it.

That's perfectly fine, but other people's excuses, like ppatin's that kids preclude one from having fun and adventure in life, are unsound and will not stand up to scrutiny.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

A coworker of mine with no kids just hit 40 recently and just today when I showed pics of our newborn at the office, everyone was making comments to him like "see what you are missing?"

I HATE when people say things like that! My wife's brother and sister-in-law have two kids, and the SIL says that to us all the time. One day, I will lose it and say "What am I missing? Having a screaming little brat that you let run all over the place DURING OUR FREAKING WEDDING CEREMONY?!?!?!"

 

[dpodblood]

I don't get people who can't comprehend not having children, or have the opinion that because you've chosen not to have kids is because you're greedy or selfish. Maybe some people don't want to have kids because they realize that the world is already vastly over populated, and that bringing another person into this world may be just creating another miserable existence.

With the amount of people in our society who are depressed, and stressed, working their asses off at a job they hate just to make ends meet, why take a chance at creating another one of these people.

If anything people who have children without completely thinking it through are more selfish than those who don't, because a lot of people have children thinking kids can fill some emotional void in their lives. Choosing not to have children isn't about saving all your cash and time for yourself. It also enables you to focus on helping out, and spending time with the family and friends you already have.

I am not for, or against having kids. I just hate the opinion that if you don't have kids it's because you're selfish.

 

[GasX]

I am not for, or against having kids. I just hate the opinion that if you don't have kids it's because you're selfish.

It's not selfish, it's self-centered.

 

[DrPizza]

Wow, reading this thread reminded me that I'm on vacation (because all the kids are on vacation and obviously posting.)

I feel like the Count on Sesame Street though...
"One! One Troll! Two! Two Trolls! Ah Ah! THREE! Three Trolls! Ah Ah. I love to count the trolls. Four! Four trolls..."

 

[ShawnD1]

I HATE when people say things like that! My wife's brother and sister-in-law have two kids, and the SIL says that to us all the time. One day, I will lose it and say "What am I missing? Having a screaming little brat that you let run all over the place DURING OUR FREAKING WEDDING CEREMONY?!?!?!"

According to the stuff you post in P&N, you sound like a baller. Keep a picture of your car in your wallet and show it off. They pull out a picture of some baby and you pull out a picture of a BMW 7 series or something :awe:

I didn't realize how rude it was at the time, but I did this once. Me and the lab supervisor got off work at the same time and were walking back to our cars. He was driving a beat up 10 year old minivan and I was driving a silver 2006 Honda Civic (this was in 2006) that was beautifully cleaned, waxed, and shining in the sun. He asked how I could afford that (I was only 20 at the time) and I said "I don't have any kids".

 

[GasX]

He asked how I could afford that (I was only 20 at the time) and I said "I am willing to spend all of my disposable income on a depreciating asset.".

fixed that for you

 

[dpodblood]

It's not selfish, it's self-centered.

In what way is it self-centered? As I said there are other people out there you can help with your time and money other than your own spawn. I think having kids to fill some void in your own life is much more self-centered than not having kids.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

According to the stuff you post in P&N, you sound like a baller. Keep a picture of your car in your wallet and show it off. They pull out a picture of some baby and you pull out a picture of a BMW 7 series or something :awe:

Hehe, that's funny. I'm not sure where you get the impression that I'm a "baller," because I'm pretty much middle class and a regular Joe.

I didn't realize how rude it was at the time, but I did this once. Me and the lab supervisor got off work at the same time and were walking back to our cars. He was driving a beat up 10 year old minivan and I was driving a silver 2006 Honda Civic (this was in 2006) that was beautifully cleaned, waxed, and shining in the sun. He asked how I could afford that (I was only 20 at the time) and I said "I don't have any kids".

Doh!

 

[IndyColtsFan]

It's not selfish, it's self-centered.

Hmmm, are you the guy in a thread a couple of years back that said it was everyone's duty to have kids if they were physically able to?

 

[MJinZ]

In what way is it self-centered? As I said there are other people out there you can help with your time and money other than your own spawn. I think having kids to fill some void in your own life is much more self-centered than not having kids.

True, but if you have good genetics and the capability to take care of kids, you are doing the human kind a disfavor by not having kids while the trashy stupid ones have 10.