Students placed on hold during 911 carjacking

[child of wonder]

I'm all for gun rights, but let's assume one of the students was armed here. Obviously, the men who grabbed them intended them harm and the students would have been right to pull a weapon back on the criminals.

But then a gun fight would have ensued since the criminals were also armed. The story could have instead been:

"College students and 3 crooks open fire during attempted robbery. 1 crook and 1 student is dead, 2 students are in critical condition."

Again... I stress that I support people's rights to own weapons and defend themselves but in this particular situation I'm not sure the outcome would have been any better had they been armed.

 

[nick1985]

And really, letting college kids carry weapons? That's certainly a good idea

http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/5.1/gun-facts-5.1-screen.pdf

Read pages 49-53 for information to debunk your "theories" on CCW


I bet the "kids" (as you call them, I call college age people adults) that were murdered at NIU and Virginia tech wish they were carrying. "Gun Free" zones do nothing to reduce crime, this is a fact.

 

[nick1985]

But then a gun fight would have ensued since the criminals were also armed.

Says...you?

I'd rather be in a gunfight for my life than sitting unarmed hostage in a trunk.

 

[child of wonder]

Says...you?

I'd rather be in a gunfight for my life than sitting unarmed hostage in a trunk.

Sure, I don't know for sure what would have happened. In many cases I'm sure even flashing a .22 revolver at a crook would send them running.

In this particular case, the crooks were pretty hardcore. They didn't just steal the car, they actively kidnapped the kids, were driving them to a bank, and may have even said they were still going to kill them afterwards.

That's hardcore. If one of the students had flashed a gun, the crooks could have simply opened fire immediately.

Anyway, it's all speculation and I still think people should be able to carry guns if they have no violent criminal history themselves.

 

[ayabe]

I got the story from AP mobile news on my phone and then just googled for the article. That's the only reason for the source.

And absolutely students and staff should be allowed to carry on campus. Violent crime would go down if they did.

This is FNC's MO, twisting the facts to push their agenda, that's the only reason this piece was written, to give the allusion that 911 can't be counted on, which is twofer for you guys, you get to rail on about ineffective government and push your guns rights bullshit.

So it's a win-win, and the story is out there now I'm sure being posted on all the blogs, FNC might issue a correction in a few days that shockingly won't be reported on by the blogs.

 

[spidey07]

This is FNC's MO, twisting the facts to push their agenda, that's the only reason this piece was written, to give the allusion that 911 can't be counted on, which is twofer for you guys, you get to rail on about ineffective government and push your guns rights bullshit.

So it's a win-win, and the story is out there now I'm sure being posted on all the blogs, FNC might issue a correction in a few days that shockingly won't be reported on by the blogs.

I guess you missed the portion of AP on my phone. As in associated press. That's where the story came from.

If you click the article you will see the source/author. This article is from associated press, not fox.

 

[Moonbeam]

We know nothing. We don't know how many operators there should be for nine one one. We don't know how bad the budget is there. We don't know if the kids had been armed they might now also be dead. Yup, we don't know anything. So the question is, why is it that people who don't know anything think they know everything and have to shit what they think they know everywhere they can? Do you think it's because we need to feel important? Do we long for group think? Are we terrified of not knowing what to do in our ignorance? Are we just fucking stupid?

 

[nick1985]

This is FNC's MO, twisting the facts to push their agenda, that's the only reason this piece was written, to give the allusion that 911 can't be counted on, which is twofer for you guys, you get to rail on about ineffective government and push your guns rights bullshit.

Myth: Police are our protection - people don't need guns

Fact: Tell that to 18,209 murder victims, 497,950 robbery victims, and 96,122 rape
victims that the police could not help.219

Fact: The courts have consistently ruled that the police do not have an obligation to
protect individuals. In Warren v. District of Columbia Metropolitan Police Department,
444 A.2d 1 (D.C. App. 1981), the court stated: `… courts have without exception
concluded that when a municipality or other governmental entity undertakes to furnish
police services, it assumes a duty only to the public at large and not to individual
members of the community.' Well, except for politicians whom receive taxpayerfinanced
bodyguards.


Fact: There are not enough police to protect everyone. In 1999, there were about
150,000 police officers on duty at any one time.220
• This is on-duty police. This includes desk clerks, command sergeants, etc. – far
fewer than 150,000 cops are cruising your neighborhood.
• There were approximately 271,933,702 people living in the United States.221
• Thus there is only one on-duty cop for every 1,813 citizens!

Fact: Former Florida Attorney General Jim Smith told Florida legislators that police
responded to only 200,000 of 700,000 calls for help to Dade County authorities.

Fact: The United States Department of Justice found that, in 1989, there were 168,881
crimes of violence for which police had not responded within 1 hour.

Fact: 95% of the time police arrive too late to prevent a crime or arrest the suspect.222

Fact: In over 90% of U.S. cities, technology does not give police dispatchers the location
of a cellular telephone caller223, making police protection nearly impossible for travelers.

Fact: 75% of protective/restraining orders are violated and police often won't enforce
them unless they witness the violation. 224

Fact: Despite prompt law enforcement responses, most armed and violent attacks at
schools were stopped by means other than law enforcement intervention.225 Often these
interventions were by administrators, teachers, or other students who were licensed to
carry firearms.

http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/5.1/gun-facts-5.1-screen.pdf



Do you have any sources that back up your insinuations that police alone are enough to protect us and we do not need to rely on firearms?

 

[waggy]

This is FNC's MO, twisting the facts to push their agenda, that's the only reason this piece was written, to give the allusion that 911 can't be counted on, which is twofer for you guys, you get to rail on about ineffective government and push your guns rights bullshit.

So it's a win-win, and the story is out there now I'm sure being posted on all the blogs, FNC might issue a correction in a few days that shockingly won't be reported on by the blogs.

you have any statistics that show how well 911 is? every one i have seen show that you can NOT count on 911 or the police to protect you in a time of need.

Frankly anyone with a shred of common sense should know that. in a emergency how fast do the police typicaly get there? 10-20 minutes? do you really think that's fast enough to save your life? or your child's?

 

[Deeko]

This thread has absolutely, positively nothing to do with gun rights or with them at colleges. Any attempt to twist it into that is very dishonest.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/5.1/gun-facts-5.1-screen.pdf

Read pages 49-53 for information to debunk your "theories" on CCW


I bet the "kids" (as you call them, I call college age people adults) that were murdered at NIU and Virginia tech wish they were carrying. "Gun Free" zones do nothing to reduce crime, this is a fact.

I'm not sure I get what you are linking to. Could you be more specific on what I should be looking at?

Anyway, I stand by what I said. I think a bunch of college kids (and that's what the vast majority are, kids) do not have the temperament to carry weapons around. I am sure a small minority would not have a problem, but the vast majority wouldn't be mature enough to handle it.

Now as to CCW laws in general, I have no problem with that. But what's the minimum age? 21? 25? I don't know, but I sure hope it is at least 21 if not higher. Because again, kids in general don't have the maturity to handle that sort of thing. And I have no problem with adults having weapons at home either, and I am pro-2nd amendment.

Hell, I learned to shoot, and shoot well, when I was a early teenager. I was also taught strict firearm safety, you get that from growing up on Army posts all the time. There is no way I would have considered carrying a .45 around when I was in college. Just no way. And I wouldn't have wanted to be near anyone that was. Too dangerous.

 

[nick1985]

I'm not sure I get what you are linking to. Could you be more specific on what I should be looking at?

Anyway, I stand by what I said. I think a bunch of college kids (and that's what the vast majority are, kids) do not have the temperament to carry weapons around. I am sure a small minority would not have a problem, but the vast majority wouldn't be mature enough to handle it.

Now as to CCW laws in general, I have no problem with that. But what's the minimum age? 21? 25? I don't know, but I sure hope it is at least 21 if not higher. Because again, kids in general don't have the maturity to handle that sort of thing. And I have no problem with adults having weapons at home either, and I am pro-2nd amendment.

Hell, I learned to shoot, and shoot well, when I was a early teenager. I was also taught strict firearm safety, you get that from growing up on Army posts all the time. There is no way I would have considered carrying a .45 around when I was in college. Just no way. And I wouldn't have wanted to be near anyone that was. Too dangerous.

Federal law states that no handguns can be sold to people under 21. You are aware of this, right? So the majority of college "kids" couldnt carry even if they wanted to.

 

[MrEgo]

Says...you?

I'd rather be in a gunfight for my life than sitting unarmed hostage in a trunk.

And I can just say "Says.. you?", too. Point is, we don't know. It could have happened either way. Gun control is not the issue here, yet this is the 2nd time in the past couple days that you want to make it out to be.

 

[nick1985]

Gun control is not the issue here, yet this is the 2nd time in the past couple days that you want to make it out to be.

I didnt bring up gun control in this thread. When I see FUD I fight it with facts. You and your bleeding heart gun grabbers dont want CCW because you have "hunches" that it will lead to shootouts, increase violence, increase shootings, and wont reduce crime, when statistics say otherwise.

 

[MrEgo]

I didnt bring up gun control in this thread. When I see FUD I fight it with facts. You and your bleeding heart gun grabbers dont want CCW because you have "hunches" that it will lead to shootouts, increase violence, increase shootings, and wont reduce crime, when statistics say otherwise.

You may want to re-read my posts since I've already stated that I think GC laws (pro or con) are not the answer to the root of problems. I've also never defended GC laws in any post that I've made, so I don't know what basis you have for that.

 

[nick1985]

You may want to re-read my posts since I've already stated that I think GC laws (pro or con) are not the answer to the root of problems. I've also never defended GC laws in any post that I've made, so I don't know what basis you have for that.

Its quite easy to infer from your posts on these boards that you are anti-gun

 

[MrEgo]

Its quite easy to infer from your posts on these boards that you are anti-gun

Well, since I'm not anti-gun, it can't be THAT easy..

My point this whole time referring to whether or not GC laws affected this case is simply "You don't know, I don't know, nobody knows, so don't act like you do". And when I say "You" I'm not referring to anyone in particular.

Nobody can read this article and instantly point to gun control as the problem.

 

[nick1985]

Nobody can read this article and instantly point to gun control as the problem.

Thats not what I did. I believe another poster did that.

I did read the article and think in my head, "I bet one of them wishes they had a firearm right about then."

 

[OutHouse]

Students placed on hold during 911 carjacking

a sept 11th carjacking?

 

[MrEgo]

Thats not what I did. I believe another poster did that.

I did read the article and think in my head, "I bet one of them wishes they had a firearm right about then."

I know it wasn't you, it was Spidey07.. he didn't waste any time by blurting it out in the OP, so I guess I don't feel so bad about us crapping up the thread since it was crap to begin with.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Federal law states that no handguns can be sold to people under 21. You are aware of this, right? So the majority of college "kids" couldnt carry even if they wanted to.

So are you agreeing with me? What is your point? You aren't making sense.

Your original post:

http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-fa...5.1-screen.pdf

Read pages 49-53 for information to debunk your "theories" on CCW

I bet the "kids" (as you call them, I call college age people adults) that were murdered at NIU and Virginia tech wish they were carrying. "Gun Free" zones do nothing to reduce crime, this is a fact.

So are you are saying that college kids should carry guns? Or they can have them at home?

I said that college kids shouldn't be allowed to carry. Did you even read my post why? The vast majority of 18-21 year old kids aren't mature and experienced enough carry weapons around.

 

[nick1985]

So are you agreeing with me? What is your point? You aren't making sense.

Your original post:


So are you are saying that college kids should carry guns? Or they can have them at home?

I said that college kids shouldn't be allowed to carry. Did you even read my post why? The vast majority of 18-21 year old kids aren't mature and experienced enough carry weapons around.

No, I'm not agreeing with you.

18-20 year olds cannot carry a gun. The federal law prohibits them from it. 21 year old "kids" can, and should be able to carry a gun if they choose. Again, if you have any facts to back up your claims that "kids" in their early 20's arnt mature enough to carry then please provide them. Your gut feelings and opinions arnt enough to convince me.

 

[MrEgo]

I think we need a new gun control thread, unless that's already been beaten to death before I started reading P&N a few months ago.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

No, I'm not agreeing with you.

18-20 year olds cannot carry a gun. The federal law prohibits them from it. 21 year old "kids" can, and should be able to carry a gun if they choose. Again, if you have any facts to back up your claims that "kids" in their early 20's arnt mature enough to carry then please provide them. Your gut feelings and opinions arnt enough to convince me.

You implied in your first post that those kids should have had guns. Is that true or not?

How old are you? Do you really need reasons why 21 year-old kids, most living away from home for the first time, who are hanging around with other kids, with lots of partying, drinking, and trying to pickup girls, create a bad situation? Really?

You seriously think that 21 year-olds are mature enough to safely carry a handgun? A small minority, sure. But the vast majority, forget it. They would create more problems then this solves.

Similar to younger kids, when they get drivers licenses, have much higher accident rates because they are young and inexperienced?

How many people in AT here really think it is a good idea to let college kids carry concealed handguns?

 

[nick1985]

You implied in your first post that those kids should have had guns. Is that true or not?

How old are you? Do you really need reasons why 21 year-old kids, most living away from home for the first time, who are hanging around with other kids, with lots of partying, drinking, and trying to pickup girls, create a bad situation? Really?

You seriously think that 21 year-olds are mature enough to safely carry a handgun? A small minority, sure. But the vast majority, forget it. They would create more problems then this solves.

Similar to younger kids, when they get drivers licenses, have much higher accident rates because they are young and inexperienced?

How many people in AT here really think it is a good idea to let college kids carry concealed handguns?

I'm 25, I think 21 year olds are mature enough to carry, and in today's environment of college shootings stripping them of their Constitutional right to bear arms is silly.

That said, I'll ask you one last time. Do you have any facts to backup your argument that college kids 21 and up are not mature enough to carry, or is that just your gut feeling?

Again, show me some facts