Student Loan Forgiveness is Set to Expire: This is Going to be Painful for Many!

[brycejones]

I tried to spend some money the other day but the retailers weren't having it. Neither home depot or lowes had what I was looking for as the power tools I was shopping for were not in stock and their web sites forced you to physically go to the store to see stock levels.

More importantly though are defaulting car loans which are responsible for a spike in repossessions which will only get worse with time. We need to go back on the gold standard which will nullify inflation like the pre '71 days where things were affordable in relation to wages.

oh lordy

 

[Zorba]

actually, all levels of education have gotten out of control. Lets take public schools k-12, for example. Taxes to fund the schools keep going up, more and more levies keep getting put on the ballot, yet, what those tax dollars cover gets smaller and smaller. The teachers, out of their own pockets, and the student's parents, flip the bill for nearly all aspects of teaching supplies now days, including those that should be covered by the school, not the teacher or parents. School supply lists use to be one page, with about ten items on it, that where basic items the student needed for the year. Now days you are looking at 3 to 5 pages of supplies, with up to 50 or more items on it, depending on the grade it was for, and such. With the majority being everyday items that the school use to provide, and/or the teacher will use thru out the year to teach properly. We are talking about printer paper that the school uses, staples, white board markers, foaming hand soap and such. And non of the items on the lists are for your student only, they all go into a community storage room. School supplies use to cost the parent's maybe at most $30 to $40 a year. now days, you are looking at $300 or more to cover the supply list at a minimum. And the kicker, is usually half way thru the year, another supply list is sent home for the parents to purchase even more supplies.. None of which are used by the students in many cases, but the teacher needs to do her job, because the school won't provide them.

That is just the supply lists, many other areas that use to be covered by the school's, such as field trips, some science projects (some chemistry experiments), etc, are now expected to be covered by the parents.. Parent's now days are constantly being hit up for money to fund various areas that use to be covered by our taxes. Even the basic decorations in classrooms have to be covered by the teacher, who in many cases are already under paid. Basically each year, parents end up paying thousands of dollars for their kids to go to public school k-12. It's become the normal that parents are oblivious of how much they spend for their kids "free" public k-12 education. That very education that use to be fully funded thru our taxes. But what do we expect, when education funding is usually on the chopping block when budget cuts take place.

It is very hard to increase productivity in education and child care. Therefore as the rest of the economy becomes more productive, education becomes more expensive relatively.

I know they happen since places, but I've yet to see supply lists like you are suggesting. My daughter goes to a very well off public school, but every year my company sponsors one of the poorest schools in OKC and their supply list is basically the same as my daughter's, which was mostly the same as mine. The one big change from when I was a kid is asking for dry erase markers and hand sanitizer. I don't remember chalk being on my supply lists.

 

[NWRMidnight]

It is very hard to increase productivity in education and child care. Therefore as the rest of the economy becomes more productive, education becomes more expensive relatively.

I know they happen since places, but I've yet to see supply lists like you are suggesting. My daughter goes to a very well off public school, but every year my company sponsors one of the poorest schools in OKC and their supply list is basically the same as my daughter's, which was mostly the same as mine. The one big change from when I was a kid is asking for dry erase markers and hand sanitizer. I don't remember chalk being on my supply lists.

Here's an article from 2017, that talks about school supply lists, it even gives an example of a "out of control" list (my description, not theirs). Granted, it's not 5 pages as I claimed, that was an exaggeration on my part, but it still costs $300 to get everything on that list. To be honest, I haven't had to worry about school lists for a number of years now, as my kids are all adults. But even when I did, the list was over 2 pages long. It was double spaced, large type, so there is that. I just guessed it was much larger today.

School Supply Lists Have Gotten Ridiculously Long and Expensive. Here’s Why.

If you’re not a parent, you may remember shopping for school supplies as an enjoyably quaint activity: a quick trip to the store to pick out a new...

slate.com

 

[compuwiz1]

Why is it that Dems always vote for the ones who make give away promises that don't materialize? Fools got duped by Biden's vote buying scam. He knew he couldn't do it; so did many others. Why is adulting so hard? You sign up for something, you must pay for it. If this would have come to pass, there would also be a strong argument that people who paid or their college and didn't take out loans should be reimbursed.

 

[fskimospy]

Why is it that Dems always vote for the ones who make give away promises that don't materialize? Fools got duped by Biden's vote buying scam. He knew he couldn't do it; so did many others. Why is adulting so hard? You sign up for something, you must pay for it. If this would have come to pass, there would also be a strong argument that people who paid or their college and didn't take out loans should be reimbursed.

I always find it funny when conservatives talk about ‘vote buying’.

First, pledging to improve people’s lives is how politics in a democracy works and has always worked for all of human history. If you don’t like it maybe democracy isn’t for you.

Second, exactly what do you think debt financed tax cuts are?

 

[Zorba]

Here's an article from 2017, that talks about school supply lists, it even gives an example of a "out of control" list (my description, not theirs). Granted, it's not 5 pages as I claimed, that was an exaggeration on my part, but it still costs $300 to get everything on that list. To be honest, I haven't had to worry about school lists for a number of years now, as my kids are all adults. But even when I did, the list was over 2 pages long. It was double spaced, large type, so there is that. I just guessed it was much larger today.

School Supply Lists Have Gotten Ridiculously Long and Expensive. Here’s Why.

If you’re not a parent, you may remember shopping for school supplies as an enjoyably quaint activity: a quick trip to the store to pick out a new...

slate.com

I'd like to see a real study on that. Most of the items in that article were on my lists 30 years ago. If you've ever used the cheapest school supplies from Walmart you will very quickly learn why they have to specify brands. That cheap shit is literally worse than nothing, but that is what the majority of people would buy. I mean you can read through the notebook paper, how is a first grader supposed to learn to write on it? Like writing on tissue paper.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

The system needs to be reworked. A student should not have to go in debt so deep it will take years of a high paying job to get out of it. If a company or industry requires a degree, there should be an effort to help pay for it from within. Apprenticeships, co-ops, internships ... whatever.

'You get your degree with our help, you work for us at this salary and benefits for ...... '

But then I can see people griping about indentured servitude or whatever.

Seems like I remember it being that way at one time. But that was when you started work for a company and retired from it 30 years later. You didn't job hop every couple of years for a grand in pay boost or an extra week of vacation.

 

[brycejones]

Why is it that Dems always vote for the ones who make give away promises that don't materialize? Fools got duped by Biden's vote buying scam. He knew he couldn't do it; so did many others. Why is adulting so hard? You sign up for something, you must pay for it. If this would have come to pass, there would also be a strong argument that people who paid or their college and didn't take out loans should be reimbursed.

But tax cut aren't vote buying?

It's only a strong argument if you're a moron. But then I guess that explains your post in the first place.

 

[Paratus]

I tried to spend some money the other day but the retailers weren't having it. Neither home depot or lowes had what I was looking for as the power tools I was shopping for were not in stock and their web sites forced you to physically go to the store to see stock levels.

More importantly though are defaulting car loans which are responsible for a spike in repossessions which will only get worse with time. We need to go back on the gold standard which will nullify inflation like the pre '71 days where things were affordable in relation to wages.

Why do you want to go from one fiat currency to another?

 

[pmv]

The system needs to be reworked. A student should not have to go in debt so deep it will take years of a high paying job to get out of it. If a company or industry requires a degree, there should be an effort to help pay for it from within. Apprenticeships, co-ops, internships ... whatever.

'You get your degree with our help, you work for us at this salary and benefits for ...... '

But then I can see people griping about indentured servitude or whatever.

Seems like I remember it being that way at one time. But that was when you started work for a company and retired from it 30 years later. You didn't job hop every couple of years for a grand in pay boost or an extra week of vacation.

Sounds like a legit identification that there's a problem, but not entirely workable solutions. Indentured servitude is pretty much what that system would be, depending on the details.

Though it is a system that has long existed with respect to the military specifically (in this country, and possibly in the US also?).

Furthermore it's what _used_ to be part of the social contract here, with things like getting medical training largely paid for by the state then working for the NHS. But that involved working for the state, not for private profit-seeking companies, so not quite the same thing. And it's been dismantled, as now people have to go into debt to get such training, which means it's harder to then expect them to tolerate lower-than-optimum pay-rates from the state.

As for "job hopping", I don't think that change was due to the employees, it came from the other side - corporations just stopped offering jobs-for-life. They want a 'flexible' labour force that they can hire-and-fire at will. And they want _somebody else_ to pay for training that labour force.

 

[pmv]

More importantly though are defaulting car loans which are responsible for a spike in repossessions which will only get worse with time. We need to go back on the gold standard which will nullify inflation like the pre '71 days where things were affordable in relation to wages.

There's a reason why you came off the gold standard in the first place. Go back on it and you'll just discover the same problem all over again.

 

[fskimospy]

The system needs to be reworked. A student should not have to go in debt so deep it will take years of a high paying job to get out of it. If a company or industry requires a degree, there should be an effort to help pay for it from within. Apprenticeships, co-ops, internships ... whatever.

'You get your degree with our help, you work for us at this salary and benefits for ...... '

But then I can see people griping about indentured servitude or whatever.

Seems like I remember it being that way at one time. But that was when you started work for a company and retired from it 30 years later. You didn't job hop every couple of years for a grand in pay boost or an extra week of vacation.

1) far fewer jobs should require college degrees than currently do. Doubly so for master’s degrees.

2) the answer is to publicly fund education and abolish student loans. If someone wants to go to NYU they can pay for it themselves. Otherwise state school will be sufficient.

 

[fskimospy]

There's a reason why you came off the gold standard in the first place. Go back on it and you'll just discover the same problem all over again.

Maybe he’s nostalgic for the good old days of the Great Depression.

 

[VRAMdemon]

I went to a state school in the 80s. Tuition was about $500 per semester, dorm and dining hall about $600 per semester. My children went to state schools a couple years ago. Tuition about $12,000 per semester, dorm and dining hall almost another $10,000 per semester. You’re talking about starting off life as an adult 200K in the hole. Maybe student loan forgiveness is the answer, maybe not. But something somewhere needs to change.

I hear from others in my age group - "this isn't fair, where's MY refund"?

My answer is why should I be pissed someone got a break I didn’t? Good for them! I truly don’t get this attitude. Their loans being partially forgiven does not in the least affect me, my happiness, or anything to do with me. Sorry, but I'm not willing to condemn people to a failing system because I suffered through it. Just because my dose wasn’t fatal doesn’t mean that we should shut out our intellectual and professional middle classes from the benefits of this type of failed capitalism because society decided to load them up with the burdens of it.

And these Republicans are wondering why millennials and Gen Zers are not starting families and purchasing homes. Remember when how we’re taught about the value of saving early, capturing the magic of compound interest? How is that possible in situations where you are taking your early investable capital and using it to pay off interest expense? This is one of the horrors of the current system, that it shuts millions out of the capitalist investment system at the very time where minor investments can bring big, lifetime gains and places them in the debtor system, draining them of that investable cash.

Plus .... The shortsightedness/hypocrisy of Republicans never fails to amuse me, insofar as when a Republican is president the party bends over backwards to extend and protect the president’s powers, but when a Democrat is president they act shocked and appalled that anyone could ever be so power-hungry. I know their real goal is to make Democratic presidents impossible, but every time maximizing executive power comes back to bite them it’s funny. Obama used Bush-era presidential powers much to Republicans going apeshit, and now Biden is exercising the exact same sort of powers Trump deployed to equal dismay. Voting Republican in the 21st century has huge negative consequences for young people.

 

[fskimospy]

I went to a state school in the 80s. Tuition was about $500 per semester, dorm and dining hall about $600 per semester. My children went to state schools a couple years ago. Tuition about $12,000 per semester, dorm and dining hall almost another $10,000 per semester. You’re talking about starting off life as an adult 200K in the hole. Maybe student loan forgiveness is the answer, maybe not. But something somewhere needs to change.

I hear from others in my age group - "this isn't fair, where's MY refund"?

My answer is why should I be pissed someone got a break I didn’t? Good for them! I truly don’t get this attitude. Their loans being partially forgiven does not in the least affect me, my happiness, or anything to do with me. Sorry, but I'm not willing to condemn people to a failing system because I suffered through it. Just because my dose wasn’t fatal doesn’t mean that we should shut out our intellectual and professional middle classes from the benefits of said capitalism because society decided to load them up with the burdens of it.

And these Republicans are wondering why millennials and Gen Zers are not starting families and purchasing homes. Remember when how we’re taught about the value of saving early, capturing the magic of compound interest? How is that possible in situations where you are taking your early investable capital and using it to pay off interest expense? This is one of the horrors of the current system, that it shuts millions out of the capitalist investment system at the very time where minor investments can bring big, lifetime gains and places them in the debtor system, draining them of that investable cash.

Plus .... The shortsightedness/hypocrisy of Republicans never fails to amuse me, insofar as when a Republican is president the party bends over backwards to extend and protect the president’s powers, but when a Democrat is president they act shocked and appalled that anyone could ever be so power-hungry. I know their real goal is to make Democratic presidents impossible, but every time maximizing executive power comes back to bite them it’s funny. Obama used Bush-era presidential powers much to Republicans going apeshit, and now Biden is exercising the exact same sort of powers Trump deployed to equal dismay. Voting Republican in the 21st century has huge negative consequences for young people.

Yes, the price increases at state teaching universities and community colleges is largely due to the reduction in government funding to them.

So basically the boomers denied the same funding to their kids that they got so that the boomers could cut their own taxes and then turned around and called their kids lazy.

The worst generation in history. For reals.

 

[NWRMidnight]

I'd like to see a real study on that. Most of the items in that article were on my lists 30 years ago. If you've ever used the cheapest school supplies from Walmart you will very quickly learn why they have to specify brands. That cheap shit is literally worse than nothing, but that is what the majority of people would buy. I mean you can read through the notebook paper, how is a first grader supposed to learn to write on it? Like writing on tissue paper.

What? You think it's not a real study, just because in your area it didn't/doesn't happen? You go on to use notebook paper for writing, as if you think you are making a point, but you are just making yourself look ignorant, as it's a common item that every school list has on it, as it's the core supply needed by every student across the nation since the beginning of time. well as long as school supply lists where a thing.

I guess you missed the 2 rems of copier paper (used by the school), red pens (forbidden for a student to use because that is what teachers use for correcting), 3 different types of plastic bags, expandable file (WTF is this for, other than the teacher/school to use for the student's file - folders are much, much cheaper if it is for student organization, but doubtful that is what it's for, most likely for the teacher's use, and they most likely pull it out during teacher conference to "show" the parents examples of their student's progress), Invisible tape refill (only purpose is for the classroom refillable tape dispenser - which refills was always school supplied). Clip board (HUH? The only people who used clip boards when I went to school are test givers, and P.E. teacher), Sharpie (only real purpose for this in school is for labeling shit, which such markers use to be school supplied), white board erasable markers, and eraser (both of those are teaching tools, primarily used by the teacher), card stock for kit building (from my understanding, used during art, was supplied by the school in my day), transparency markers (for teacher to use on overhead projectors), 6" protractor (re-usable year after year, was always school supplied, although they where crappy), yellow sticky notes (office supply needed by the student for school?).. over half of the list is supplies the Schools use to supply, which also included the art pencils and such, as most of those art supplies they require would last years before needing replaced in the 4th grade. . At least when I was in 4th grade 42 years ago, and when my first kid started school nearly 30 years age, my last kid, it was totally different, and it is when the lists started to grow year after year, some have even included staplers. As for forcing brands.. BULLSHIT! They want specific brands, they can supply them. They don't get to dictate what I spend out of my wallet via brand requirements, nor should they be allowed to do it for anyone else.

Point is, It never use to be a normal school supply list, and an example of what is happening in many schools across the nation. It doesn't mean it's not true because you have never experienced it. Now I looked up local school lists from this past year, and thy all shrunk substantially. Hmm.. wonder if it was COVID related as a lot of schools shut down, meaning they had all these school supplies they collected that where never used. And yes, they collect all the supplies now days in a lot of schools, and they go into a "community" closet for every one to use.. Something that has also changed. Use to be your supplies where your supplies..

The over all point was All forms of education, the cost is sky rocketing, it's not just Colleges.

 

[Zorba]

What? You think it's not a real study, just because in your area it didn't/doesn't happen? You go on to use notebook paper for writing, as if you think you are making a point, but you are just making yourself look ignorant, as it's a common item that every school list has on it, as it's the core supply needed by every student across the nation since the beginning of time. well as long as school supply lists where a thing.

I guess you missed the 2 rems of copier paper (used by the school), red pens (forbidden for a student to use because that is what teachers use for correcting), 3 different types of plastic bags, expandable file (WTF is this for, other than the teacher/school to use for the student's file - folders are much, much cheaper if it is for student organization, but doubtful that is what it's for, most likely for the teacher's use, and they most likely pull it out during teacher conference to "show" the parents examples of their student's progress), Invisible tape refill (only purpose is for the classroom refillable tape dispenser - which refills was always school supplied). Clip board (HUH? The only people who used clip boards when I went to school are test givers, and P.E. teacher), Sharpie (only real purpose for this in school is for labeling shit, which such markers use to be school supplied), white board erasable markers, and eraser (both of those are teaching tools, primarily used by the teacher), card stock for kit building (from my understanding, used during art, was supplied by the school in my day), transparency markers (for teacher to use on overhead projectors), 6" protractor (re-usable year after year, was always school supplied, although they where crappy), yellow sticky notes (office supply needed by the student for school?).. over half of the list is supplies the Schools use to supply, which also included the art pencils and such, as most of those art supplies they require would last years before needing replaced in the 4th grade. . At least when I was in 4th grade 42 years ago, and when my first kid started school nearly 30 years age, my last kid, it was totally different, and it is when the lists started to grow year after year, some have even included staplers. As for forcing brands.. BULLSHIT! They want specific brands, they can supply them. They don't get to dictate what I spend out of my wallet via brand requirements, nor should they be allowed to do it for anyone else.

Point is, It never use to be a normal school supply list, and an example of what is happening in many schools across the nation. It doesn't mean it's not true because you have never experienced it. Now I looked up local school lists from this past year, and thy all shrunk substantially. Hmm.. wonder if it was COVID related as a lot of schools shut down, meaning they had all these school supplies they collected that where never used. And yes, they collect all the supplies now days in a lot of schools, and they go into a "community" closet for every one to use.. Something that has also changed. Use to be your supplies where your supplies..

The over all point was All forms of education, the cost is sky rocketing, it's not just Colleges.

I saw no study referenced in that article. My point being I wonder how much inflation there has actually been. I have no doubt that those were real anecdotal points, but that is all I saw, a bunch of anecdotes. I live in one of lowest funded public education states there is, I'd think if this was a actually a massive issue it's be happening here too.

As for brands, go to Walmart at back of school time and buy the cheapest shit they offer. Now use that for your work for the next 9 months. When we were kids, the store didn't sell tissue paper notebooks, crayons that barely drew, or markers that dry out in less than a week, or water colors that fall apart if handled by a little kid. A few years back my company started asking for money donations only for school supplies because the quality of supplies being brought in was so poor.

Shitty supplies are part of the reason for community sharing, they don't want to tell Timmy he can't do the assignment just because his pencil slices his paper up like a razor. And there a ton of parents that can afford good supplies for their kids but choose to buy them cheaper low quality supplies anyways.

I know I ended up with a lot of extra crap on my HS lists (like clipboards) and we'd just get what I thought I needed and if needed something else later get it then. But I did always have my own protractors, rulers, colored pencils, note cards, stapler, etc. I would reuse from year to year

 

[cmcartman]

Does it bother you that the courts no longer rule based on the plain meaning of the law?

I think Jaskalas answered along part of the lines I would have here with the questions the Majority had at what modify and waive mean in this context. He also brought up this point.
"Furthermore, if Democrats actually believed that this was a legal action protected by existing law, they would not have tried to pass explicit language to enable this action in the 2020 Heroes act. It failed to pass the Senate, so then you take it upon yourselves to do it without legal authority."
It seems to me Democrats thought the same thing and then decided to try to use it anyway after the fact.

There's a larger issue here of usurping congress's current authority when they explicitly voted this down. Using prior legislation to go around the current congress' fiscal decision is questionable in my opinion.

Then there's this part the majority didn't even argue.
§1098bb(a)(1). As relevant here, the Secretary may issue such waivers or modifications only “as may be necessary to ensure” that “recipients of student financial assistance under title IV of the [Education Act affected by a national emergency] are not placed in a worse position financially in relation to that financial assistance because of [the national emergency].”§§1098bb(a)(2)(A), 1098ee(2)(C)–(D).

It's pretty easy to argue that three years of student loan pauses did this. You're going well past that now years later with additional forgiveness. There is also no reasoning in how it's applied 10k here, 20k if you had pell grants. How do conditions before covid 19 hit have anything to do with currently being in a worse position.
Biden also talked a lot about the entire program being a mess and how costs have increased over the years.

FACT SHEET: President Biden Announces Student Loan Relief for Borrowers Who Need It Most | The White House

A three-part plan delivers on President Biden’s promise to cancel $10,000 of student debt for low- to middle-income borrowers President Biden believes

www.whitehouse.gov

Not to disagree that it's a mess and needs changes, a significant portion of that is NOT from Covid. Attempting to use that "emergency" to make huge changes to everyone isn't the plain meaning of the law, it's usurping the law to make the changes he wants instead of doing it through legislation.

 

[cmcartman]

Oddly enough, a Congressional act disagrees with you.

Granted, I'm not the greatest at legal speak, but those of you with better understanding of how laws are written, may read the text in the link below.

But based off what I see, in the Heroes Act, under Title V - Forgiving Student Loan Debt and Protecting Student Borrowers, it gives the Secretary of the Treasury the right to pay off up to $10k of student loans for each student.

If you want to argue that you're correct, then on a technicality, it's strictly speaking the Secretary of the Treasury who was given that right, but as the Secretary of the Treasury works directly under the POTUS, to me it's the same thing.

Access the text of the H.R.6800 - The Heroes Act here

That law isn't relevant and didn't pass. It was democrats first try and when it failed they went back again with the older law.

 

[cmcartman]

Probably been brought up before but this is the kind of shit that is going to bring inflation to a screeching halt and give us that recession all the economists have been hoping for.

Suddenly having an additional $300-$1000 monthly bill that goes off into the void instead of goods and purchases is gonna fuck stuff up well and good.

They should have been stopped after the first year. Let's just keep them on pause because all those with student loans have been spending the money elsewhere has been the excuse for the past two years. They're part of the reason, along with the PPP "loans" that inflation has been so high so yes of course stopping them is going to affect that. Let's just keep them on pause indefinitely because Republicans are definitely using this to tank the economy now.

 

[cmcartman]

The real issue isn't student debt. Well its part of the problem, but the real issue is college is so damn expensive. Even if congress wiped student debt clean, we'd be back in the same spot 1-2 decades from now. Why isn't Biden talking about the expense of college? Cost need to come down, but that won't happen unless Americans force the schools to change. The only solution: Send the majority of HS students to trade schools, or keep them out of college. IMHO, if you aren't going to college to pursue a degree in medicine, engineering, computers, education, and a few other fields that demand a college degree than you probably don't belong in college. I've met quite a few people over the years who aren't even workig in the field that they wen't to school for. You could make the argument that the peice of paper got them their current job. That could be possible, but is it worth 4 years of your life, and tens of thousands of dollars in tuition?

Maybe, or maybe not.

This is the real issue. Temporarily "fixing" student loans without changing the cause isn't going to help. They've been at least part of the cause of tuition inflation.

 

[fskimospy]

I think Jaskalas answered along part of the lines I would have here with the questions the Majority had at what modify and waive mean in this context. He also brought up this point.
"Furthermore, if Democrats actually believed that this was a legal action protected by existing law, they would not have tried to pass explicit language to enable this action in the 2020 Heroes act. It failed to pass the Senate, so then you take it upon yourselves to do it without legal authority."
It seems to me Democrats thought the same thing and then decided to try to use it anyway after the fact.

There's a larger issue here of usurping congress's current authority when they explicitly voted this down. Using prior legislation to go around the current congress' fiscal decision is questionable in my opinion.

Then there's this part the majority didn't even argue.
§1098bb(a)(1). As relevant here, the Secretary may issue such waivers or modifications only “as may be necessary to ensure” that “recipients of student financial assistance under title IV of the [Education Act affected by a national emergency] are not placed in a worse position financially in relation to that financial assistance because of [the national emergency].”§§1098bb(a)(2)(A), 1098ee(2)(C)–(D).

It's pretty easy to argue that three years of student loan pauses did this. You're going well past that now years later with additional forgiveness. There is also no reasoning in how it's applied 10k here, 20k if you had pell grants. How do conditions before covid 19 hit have anything to do with currently being in a worse position.
Biden also talked a lot about the entire program being a mess and how costs have increased over the years.

FACT SHEET: President Biden Announces Student Loan Relief for Borrowers Who Need It Most | The White House

A three-part plan delivers on President Biden’s promise to cancel $10,000 of student debt for low- to middle-income borrowers President Biden believes

www.whitehouse.gov

Not to disagree that it's a mess and needs changes, a significant portion of that is NOT from Covid. Attempting to use that "emergency" to make huge changes to everyone isn't the plain meaning of the law, it's usurping the law to make the changes he wants instead of doing it through legislation.

Was there a declared national emergency? Undoubtedly yes.

Would it ensure recipients were not in a worse position due to the emergency? Undoubtedly yes.

Is a reduction of some portion of the principal a modification to the loan? Undoubtedly yes.

Did the states lack standing to even bring this lawsuit to begin with? Undoubtedly yes as they suffered no injury.

It is the plain, common sense reading of the law.

Conservatives have argued for years that judges should confine themselves to the text of the law but instead they decided to play Calvinball again. Roberts' ruling is 'the modification was too big' despite Congress never limiting the size of permitted modification - something they could have easily done if they chose to.

This is not a case about whether you think the policy is a good one or not - this is a case about the proper role of the courts and how they are usurping power from the elected branches of government. If they want to rewrite laws to make them ones they like better they should run for office.

 

[hal2kilo]

Stop acting like Boomers are some monolithic political entity!

 

[fskimospy]

Kagan put it well:

The majority opinion departs from the demands of judicial restraint. At the behest of a party that has suffered no injury, the majority decides a contested public policy issue properly belonging to the politically accountable branches and the people they represent.

 

[NWRMidnight]

I saw no study referenced in that article. My point being I wonder how much inflation there has actually been. I have no doubt that those were real anecdotal points, but that is all I saw, a bunch of anecdotes. I live in one of lowest funded public education states there is, I'd think if this was a actually a massive issue it's be happening here too.

As for brands, go to Walmart at back of school time and buy the cheapest shit they offer. Now use that for your work for the next 9 months. When we were kids, the store didn't sell tissue paper notebooks, crayons that barely drew, or markers that dry out in less than a week, or water colors that fall apart if handled by a little kid. A few years back my company started asking for money donations only for school supplies because the quality of supplies being brought in was so poor.

Shitty supplies are part of the reason for community sharing, they don't want to tell Timmy he can't do the assignment just because his pencil slices his paper up like a razor. And there a ton of parents that can afford good supplies for their kids but choose to buy them cheaper low quality supplies anyways.

Dude, you can spend a little time going to various areas around the country, looking up school supply lists and see how much they fluctuate between different areas, with different requirements.. It isn't rocket science. Low funding, or high funding doesn't really indicate anything if you don't know how the money is being spent. There are many high funded areas that have outrageous supply lists because of how they use that money, with some having fancy brand new schools being built. There are a lot of low funded areas that have schools that are falling apart or need replaced. There is more to the equation than just school supplies that dictates where that money goes in an area.

Why would your company be involve with school supply donations based on the quality of those items? How would they know anything about it, unless your company is part of the public education system? IF that is the case, you are bias, because you have been lead to believe you have to have name brand school supplies. If not, where do you think they got that excuse from? What's funny, is I bought all of my kids supplies at Walmart. Never had an issue with quality as you describe. Hmm.. maybe it's a local problem for you. OF course, I have never seen a #2 pencil cut up a piece of paper like a razer, unless it wasn't sharpened properly, where the wood hit the paper rather than the #2 lead..

Who said anything about community sharing had anything to do with shitty supplies? Parents buy what they can afford.. it has nothing to do with community sharing.. I understand why they do community sharing. But that wasn't a thing when we where in school, because school supply lists were reasonable and affordable for everyone. But really, you are adding stuff that was never said or implied, all to basically argue about quality of supplies.. Which really has nothing to do with my point of all levels of education are out of control.

I am curios, how do you know what other parents can afford, or not afford? It's impossible for you to know anything about their financial situation or what their obligations are, as you have no way of knowing such information unless you are directly involved in their finances.