Student activist David Hogg calls for boycott of Vanguard and BlackRock over gunmaker ownership ...

[MomentsofSanity]

I don't think you understand what "hero" means. If this lad charged the shooter to defend the other students, he's a hero. Asking people not to invest in a gun related fund makes him an activist.

I don't know. Given what he has faced for standing up for what he believes in and actually getting an audience there is some heroism in this kid basically saying "fuck you" to all the people trying to demonize him for having a voice and actually receiving a platform to express it.

He and his family have received countless death threats etc... Enough that they had to go to the FBI. He could have easily just slipped into silence in the face of that (god knows that's what the right wants). He refused. That seems to be somewhat heroic to me.

What has shithouse done?

 

[mect]

I don't think you understand what "hero" means. If this lad charged the shooter to defend the other students, he's a hero. Asking people not to invest in a gun related fund makes him an activist.

Apparently you don't know what "hero" means.

 

[snoopy7548]

Vanguard is one of, if not the, best investing companies out there. If you have your work 401k through Vanguard, are you going to sell all your investments and stop putting money away for retirement? Are you going to sell your S&P 500 index fund and instead invest in Coca Cola, Apple, and Google (terrible idea, BTW)? What about Fidelity Investments?

Good "idea" but extremely horrible and naive execution. I support what the Parkland survivors are doing but this call for action is almost completely ass-backwards.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/17/stu...rd-and-blackrock-over-gunmaker-ownership.html



Just a few words:

"One of Parkland, Fla.'s most prominent student activists on stopping gun violence has called for a boycott of Vanguard and BlackRock, two of the world's biggest investors in gunmakers.

In a post on Twitter on Tuesday, David Hogg remarked on the firms' ownership of gun maker stocks, adding "if you use them, feel free to let them know." Then he added two tags: BoycottVanguard BoycottBlackrock."





This kid is getting annoying. He may have an important message but in my opinion he is going about it the wrong way and will ultimately fail.

Now he is trying to tell me where to invest. I think I am going to drop some more funds into my Vanguard account ...

It appears that Hogg is being used as a pawn.

 

[Blackjack200]

Vanguard is one of, if not the, best investing companies out there. If you have your work 401k through Vanguard, are you going to sell all your investments and stop putting money away for retirement? Are you going to sell your S&P 500 index fund and instead invest in Coca Cola, Apple, and Google (terrible idea, BTW)? What about Fidelity Investments?

Good "idea" but extremely horrible and naive execution. I support what the Parkland survivors are doing but this call for action is almost completely ass-backwards.

I'm not going to divest from the VG products in my retirement plan, but I still appreciate what Hogg is doing here. Shine a light, show everyone what their dollars are supporting. There are plenty of other awful companies in the S&P 500, the more people think about these things the better.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Not a good move imo.

How are regular folks/kids going to boycott blackrock? Is he asking me to move my 401 investments around? Um, no.

This is not really actionable.

This is not Wayfair or Starbucks. He only has credibility of people think boycotts will actually have power behind them and can directly effect brand or sales.

This one is not winnable and just weakens his position. Better to keep prefer dry for a real fight.

There is a thin line between being a leader and a whiney "look at me" personality. He's rapidly approaching that line and risks losing support by people who aren't extreme anti-gun folks and that would be the vast majority. Going after Vanguard? That's as useless and probably counterproductive to his purported reason to march.

 

[Blackjack200]

There is a thin line between being a leader and a whiney "look at me" personality. He's rapidly approaching that line and risks losing support by people who aren't extreme anti-gun folks and that would be the vast majority. Going after Vanguard? That's as useless and probably counterproductive to his purported reason to march.

He's using his platform for a worthy cause, and he has the guts to deliver a message that he knows isn't mainstream and won't be well received by everyone.

How is that a "whiney 'look at me' personality"?

The gun nuts in this country always hope that the mass shooting survivors will just fade away with time, and it isn't happening this time and they're getting triggered.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

He's using his platform for a worthy cause, and he has the guts to deliver a message that he knows isn't mainstream and won't be well received by everyone.

How is that a "whiney 'look at me' personality"?

The gun nuts in this country always hope that the mass shooting survivors will just fade away with time, and it isn't happening this time and their getting triggered.

He got tiny baseball bats as a response in PA.

Hey, he can stand on a stack of tin cans to the moon, that's his right but right now a "gun nut" seems to be moving towards a definition of anyone who owns or approves of owning a gun by going after these targets. I have no doubt others feel the same as I've described but if that is his ultimate crusade to go after everyone who isn't an extremist in that cause? It's not going to help.

 

[HomerJS]

It appears that Hogg is being used as a pawn.

When you can't refute on substance break out the tin foil.

No evidence of that whatsoever unless your source is Hannity

 

[HomerJS]

He's using his platform for a worthy cause, and he has the guts to deliver a message that he knows isn't mainstream and won't be well received by everyone.

How is that a "whiney 'look at me' personality"?

The gun nuts in this country always hope that the mass shooting survivors will just fade away with time, and it isn't happening this time and their getting triggered.

When you have Trump how can anyone else be whiney?? He rode that birtherism bullshit for 2 years straight to the White House so what's wrong with this kid's campaign for what he perceives a worthy cause?

 

[Blackjack200]

He got tiny baseball bats as a response in PA.

Hey, he can stand on a stack of tin cans to the moon, that's his right but right now a "gun nut" seems to be moving towards a definition of anyone who owns or approves of owning a gun by going after these targets. I have no doubt others feel the same as I've described but if that is his ultimate crusade to go after everyone who isn't an extremist in that cause? It's not going to help.

I think he's making people think about how gun manufacturers are tightly woven into our economy and our financial system. That's a good thing.

In my view a gun nut is anyone who places higher importance on a deliberately and maliciously misinterpreted clause in the constitution than on classrooms full of children. My dad put a huge sign on the back of his van that says "FUCK THE SECOND AMENDMENT". He's discovered how many 2A people are apparently snowflakes behind the wheel.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I think he's making people think about how gun manufacturers are tightly woven into our economy and our financial system. That's a good thing.

In my view a gun nut is anyone who places higher importance on a deliberately and maliciously misinterpreted clause in the constitution than on classrooms full of children. My dad put a huge sign on the back of his van that says "FUCK THE SECOND AMENDMENT". He's discovered how many 2A people are apparently snowflakes behind the wheel.

This of course would be your interpretation of the Second. I think that extremists should be held at a distance and ideologically fumigated. That would apply to both sides BTW. Gun manufacturers are tightly woven into our society like Twinkies, or Chevrolets or an iphone. Who could not be aware that businesses do businesses and are part of our economy like EVERY SINGLE THING that involves commerce?

Sound and fury, signifying nothing. Go back and get schools funded for effective security if he likes. Talk about regulations. Going after Vanguard to make aware that making guns commercially is a business?

I'm going to start to seriously doubt the agenda and intelligence of anyone who doesn't understand that.

 

[Blackjack200]

This of course would be your interpretation of the Second.

There is no reasonable interpretation, by lawyer or layman, of that text, in any way, that supports the current legal status of guns. Anyone who argues otherwise is interested or an idiot.

I think that extremists should be held at a distance and ideologically fumigated. That would apply to both sides BTW. Gun manufacturers are tightly woven into our society like Twinkies, or Chevrolets or an iphone. Who could not be aware that businesses do businesses and are part of our economy like EVERY SINGLE THING that involves commerce?

You think that the average guy on the street is aware of all the different types of firms sitting in his 401(k) plan? I don't do that, and I work in the industry.

Sound and fury, signifying nothing. Go back and get schools funded for effective security if he likes. Talk about regulations. Going after Vanguard to make aware that making guns commercially is a business?

I'm going to start to seriously doubt the agenda and intelligence of anyone who doesn't understand that.

Some of us don't want locked down schools, we want to live in communities. If you think turning schools into Sing Sing is the way to go, go ahead and make that argument.

 

[fskimospy]

There is a thin line between being a leader and a whiney "look at me" personality. He's rapidly approaching that line and risks losing support by people who aren't extreme anti-gun folks and that would be the vast majority. Going after Vanguard? That's as useless and probably counterproductive to his purported reason to march.

Isn't the entire strategy of being an activist to get people to pay attention to you, and therefore your cause?

 

[Commodus]

This of course would be your interpretation of the Second. I think that extremists should be held at a distance and ideologically fumigated. That would apply to both sides BTW. Gun manufacturers are tightly woven into our society like Twinkies, or Chevrolets or an iphone. Who could not be aware that businesses do businesses and are part of our economy like EVERY SINGLE THING that involves commerce?

Sound and fury, signifying nothing. Go back and get schools funded for effective security if he likes. Talk about regulations. Going after Vanguard to make aware that making guns commercially is a business?

I'm going to start to seriously doubt the agenda and intelligence of anyone who doesn't understand that.

The problem, I'd say, is that the gun industry in the US is irresponsible at a deep level. It's bribing politicians to avoid even modest forms of gun control legislation, and it knows that more innocent people will die as a direct result of that bribery. And why? Not to defend civil liberties, not to promote sensible ownership... it's to keep gun sales high.

You'd have a better case if gun manufacturers in the US behaved in an ethical manner, but they don't. As such, Hogg is entirely justified.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

When you can't refute on substance break out the tin foil.

No evidence of that whatsoever unless your source is Hannity

I think it's unlikely that he figured out the largest gun company investors and instigated the boycott by himself, without any coaching or direct influence from others. Maybe he did (entirely possible), but I highly doubt it.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

There is no reasonable interpretation, by lawyer or layman, of that text, in any way, that supports the current legal status of guns. Anyone who argues otherwise is interested or an idiot.

You just lost the argument by immediately attacking without even bothering to cite what the "correct" interpretation is.

You think that the average guy on the street is aware of all the different types of firms sitting in his 401(k) plan? I don't do that, and I work in the industry.

I think the average guy on the street assumes most large businesses get support from institutions which are linked at some level to others that at some point to Vanguard or other financial resources. I assumed this and I'm not even in the industry. I assume not a single fsck will be given (ok, maybe one) by most people.

Some of us don't want locked down schools, we want to live in communities. If you think turning schools into Sing Sing is the way to go, go ahead and make that argument.

You want to live in communities and you should be free from harm. I want a billion dollars, not so I could have a gold plated toilet, although I confess I might enlarge the garage and buy a couple nice vehicles. Oh, kitchen upgrade in a major way and the sofa is getting a bit thin. No, there's a lot of good which can be done with that money with so many things. I'll get that when you have a world that requires absolutely no caution on your part.

The absolutist solution to your rather silly Sing Sing analogy is to not allow people to interact and lock down the public. Chip everyone at birth and have AI keep track of everyone at all times, and that used to dictate your movements. Even then that won't work because of a very basic fact that cannot be denied. There is and can never be a world where everyone is safe. Never. The very nature of universal reality forbids such a thing.

So some compromise on firearms where there is a give and take along with improvements in school security are likely to provide the best outcome in the real world. If you oppose that, fine, but that's how you gain ground in safety, not telling people they are idiots for suggesting alternatives.

 

[HomerJS]

I think it's unlikely that he figured out the largest gun company investors and instigated the boycott by himself, without any coaching or direct influence from others. Maybe he did (entirely possible), but I highly doubt it.

Kid is a AP grad. He sounds smarter and is more articulate then the current POTUS. Is he getting help, yes. Is he being directed by some grand puppet master, I see no evidence so I refuse to subscribe to some wild Fox News conspiracy theory. He already said he's taking 1 year before starting college to advocate full time.

 

[Kneedragger]

From the get go he should have used his voice to go after making schools safer with security and new technology..

America's short attention span with the face of the years will forget about him soon..

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Kid is a AP grad. He sounds smarter and is more articulate then the current POTUS. Is he getting help, yes. Is he being directed by some grand puppet master, I see no evidence so I refuse to subscribe to some wild Fox News conspiracy theory. He already said he's taking 1 year before starting college to advocate full time.

I didn't know that Fox News was propagating this "wild" conspiracy theory. You must watch them a lot...or are just making up random shit as you go along.

 

[Starbuck1975]

There is a thin line between being a leader and a whiney "look at me" personality. He's rapidly approaching that line and risks losing support by people who aren't extreme anti-gun folks and that would be the vast majority. Going after Vanguard? That's as useless and probably counterproductive to his purported reason to march.

Such is the age we live in where activists are now literally throwing wads of wet toilet paper at the social media wall to see what goes viral

 

[Blackjack200]

You just lost the argument by immediately attacking without even bothering to cite what the "correct" interpretation is.

Great

I think the average guy on the street assumes most large businesses get support from institutions which are linked at some level to others that at some point to Vanguard or other financial resources. I assumed this and I'm not even in the industry. I assume not a single fsck will be given (ok, maybe one) by most people.

You have a very different picture of the average guy on the street than I do.

You want to live in communities and you should be free from harm. I want a billion dollars, not so I could have a gold plated toilet, although I confess I might enlarge the garage and buy a couple nice vehicles. Oh, kitchen upgrade in a major way and the sofa is getting a bit thin. No, there's a lot of good which can be done with that money with so many things. I'll get that when you have a world that requires absolutely no caution on your part.

The absolutist solution to your rather silly Sing Sing analogy is to not allow people to interact and lock down the public. Chip everyone at birth and have AI keep track of everyone at all times, and that used to dictate your movements. Even then that won't work because of a very basic fact that cannot be denied. There is and can never be a world where everyone is safe. Never. The very nature of universal reality forbids such a thing.

So some compromise on firearms where there is a give and take along with improvements in school security are likely to provide the best outcome in the real world. If you oppose that, fine, but that's how you gain ground in safety, not telling people they are idiots for suggesting alternatives.

What's the compromise? Be specific. My cards are on the table: I believe in gun control.

 

[Blackjack200]

From the get go he should have used his voice to go after making schools safer with security and new technology..

America's short attention span with the face of the years will forget about him soon..

Instead of proposing a sensible, tangible solution that might work, he should have campaigned for nebulous concepts like "making schools safer". How? With "security and new technology". Oh yes. I see now.

 

[Victorian Gray]

It appears that Hogg is being used as a pawn.

Soros and the Deep State, right?

 

[Kneedragger]

Instead of proposing a sensible, tangible solution that might work, he should have campaigned for nebulous concepts like "making schools safer". How? With "security and new technology". Oh yes. I see now.

You're right! There is no possible way to make schools safe at all what the fuck was I thinking?!