Stuck....and its depressing

[thatsright]

The Specs:

34 yo
5'10"
April 1st: 266lb
Sept 23rd: 223lb
Nov 7th: 217lb


My goail is to only LOSE BODY FAT!

I had a post a few weeks ago how plateaued out and its been extremely slow/difficult to continue any meaningful weight loss per week. Still in a bind. For about two months I would seem to yo/yo between 219-223lb. I now seem to fluctuate between 216-219 for the last 3 weeks.

I seem to be loosing weight, but its still too slow and I know I'm doing something wrong. I've been going to the gym about 5 days a week since June. I do one day of mostly cardio ( 10-15 minutes first of weights 35 minutes on treadmill. I alternate between jogging @ 8-9mph for two minutes, then 15degree incline at 3.5mph, and go aback and forth.) The other 4 days a week I do resistance weights on the machines and alternate between core and upper body, plus lower body. I have mixed it up slightly in the last month or so, but nothing major. I go to the gym in the early am and have a MetRx shake right after I leave.

My BMR is 2080 cal per day. My maintenance is about 2400 cal per day for my weight. I use DailyPlate and have found that about 50% of my diet is from carbs, 30% protein and the rest fat. A typical work day intake consists of:

You can add a salad I had to this, which adds about another 400 calories.

One problem I think has happened in the last few days is I've been cutting too many calories? Below my BMR, so perhaps my body has gone into 'starvation mode' and I worry I've wrecked my metabolism altogether?? Another issue is I need to get more protein in my diet. I'd like to get at least 40% of intake via protein.

What do you think? What am I doing wrong or need to change?

Any one know of a site where I can type in my daily caloric requirement and then it will give me a suggestions for a high protein diet for that day?

 

[LittleNemoNES]

Are you attempting to gain muscle and lose weight at the same time? Cos it is nearly impossible.

If you know you have a calorie deficit you WILL lose weight.

Your weight will fluctuate mostly due to water. 1-3 pounds IMO is normal.

I recommend you switch over to sprinting. It's helped me lose more fat than anything I have ever tried.

Remember that having lots of lean body mass helps you burn more calories. You could try switching over to strength training exclusively for about a month and then going back to sprinting.

my 2 cents.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Are you attempting to gain muscle and lose weight at the same time? Cos it is nearly impossible.

If you know you have a calorie deficit you WILL lose weight.

Your weight will fluctuate mostly due to water. 1-3 pounds IMO is normal.

I recommend you switch over to sprinting. It's helped me lose more fat than anything I have ever tried.

Remember that having lots of lean body mass helps you burn more calories. You could try switching over to strength training exclusively for about a month and then going back to sprinting.

my 2 cents.

If the caloric deficit is too great, metabolic rate will decrease to compensate. This can stall weight loss. On top of that, sprinting for an individual who weighs over 200lbs and isn't accustomed to it is a bad idea. That has a high likelihood of injury.

OP: You need to make sure your caloric intake is above your BMR, especially now that you're leaning out. I'm assuming your weight loss went relatively quickly before. At this point, that changes. You should expect a loss of 1-1.5lbs/week. From your Sept weigh in to your Nov weight, you are on par with that. I think you're worrying too much about the rate at which you lose weight.

Also, have you recalculated your BMR at your new weight? That changes as your weight decreases.

 

[mb]

Cut the sugar. Fruit is fine in moderation, but don't add sugar to anything. I used to use a ton of sugar in my coffee. Over a month or so, I went from using only sugar, to mostly sugar and a little bit of splenda, then to more splenda than sugar, and now I only use Splenda in my coffee.
If you can cut that 31g of sugar out of your coffee habit I think it will help. It certainly helped me.
It was hard because I *really* hated the taste of splenda at first, but I think it's helped a lot. A lot of people seem to like Stevia, but I haven't tried it as it is considerably more expensive as splenda is free at coffee shops (and my work place )
I also used to snack on pretzels as well but stopped. Now I'll have an ounce of peanuts instead.

 

[Kipper]

Doubt you have been cutting calories too aggressively. A few days' excessive deficit typically isn't enough to cause a major change in metabolic rate. Estimate your maintenance at around 2500 kcals (using Mifflin-St. Jeor and activity factor of 1.3). This means for optimal weight loss you should aim for around 2000 kcal/day. In practice this level tends to fluctuate because of difficulty characterizing each person's intensity of physical activity and because of variations in individual metabolic rate and body composition. Figure ±200 calories or so, which gives you a range of 1800-2200. I would still shoot for the middle of this range and then adjust accordingly. If you lose too quickly, revise the number upward.

Please be certain that you are accurately measuring your portions. This is a huge sticking point for most people. You'd be surprised when you measure out stuff accurately as opposed to "estimating." Also bear in mind with respect to carbs that serving sizes are often for cooked, rather than raw, portions. A cup of cooked pasta is MUCH less than a cup of uncooked from a calorie standpoint. It is a great tendency to underestimate portion sizes.

Also, I would cut out liquid calories entirely (juice, soda, sugar-sweetened beverages, alcohol). Increase your non-starchy vegetable intake, that is severely lacking in your diet and is completely compatible with a low-carbohydrate diet, which I suspect is what you're trying...? No idea where you are getting this 40% of calories from protein number from.

 

[mb]

Please be certain that you are accurately measuring your portions. This is a huge sticking point for most people. You'd be surprised when you measure out stuff accurately as opposed to "estimating." Also bear in mind with respect to carbs that serving sizes are often for cooked, rather than raw, portions. A cup of cooked pasta is MUCH less than a cup of uncooked from a calorie standpoint. It is a great tendency to underestimate portion sizes.

I'm going to have to agree with this point. When I got a digital food scale I was surprised at how bad I was at estimating how much I was using.

 

[KoolDrew]

I'm going to agree with both SociallyChallenged and Kipper. I think you're goals may be unrealistic (as far as rate of fat loss is concerned) and/or you may not be very accurate in your measurements. Get a digital scale if you don't have one already.

Also, what about consistency? You only posted one day, so we have no idea if every single day is like that. You obviously don't have to eat the same things everyday, but calories and macronutrient breakdown should be about the same, especially calories. Since you said over the past few days calorie intake has been lower than the others I'm assuming your diet isn't very consistent.

Are you weighing yourself the same time every week or no? If one week you weigh yourself butt naked first thing in the morning before eating anything and next week your fully clothed after eating breakfast, it can definitely mask any fat loss from that week.

 

[NAC]

I suspect what others wrote is correct – you are underestimating portion sizes, or not being as consistent as you think day in and day out. Because 1800 calories is definitely low enough that you should be losing.

I found that I diet best simply by avoiding calorie dense foods, and eating a large volume of not dense calorie foods. So basically drop the rice, bars, and pretzels. Even if you are careful with portions – I’d drop them most days of the week. Avoid shakes other than to ensure you get the protein you want (so basically whey shakes with some fruit if you want). And eat a lot of veggies & salad. My non-scientific explanation is that the fiber and volume of food keeps the metabolism going fast to process everything.

 

[Pantlegz]

sprinting for an individual who weighs over 200lbs and isn't accustomed to it is a bad idea.

Not trying to derail the thread or anything but you're saying that I shouldn't sprint because my LBM is greater than 200lbs(curent weight 235) and quite honestly I don't plan on getting lighter than 200lbs(losing muscle mass)? I don't sprint at the moment but when football starts up again this spring I will be. I also plan on incorporating sprinting into my mma training later next year when I plan on fighting.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Not trying to derail the thread or anything but you're saying that I shouldn't sprint because my LBM is greater than 200lbs(curent weight 235) and quite honestly I don't plan on getting lighter than 200lbs(losing muscle mass)? I don't sprint at the moment but when football starts up again this spring I will be. I also plan on incorporating sprinting into my mma training later next year when I plan on fighting.

I'm saying for this individual. Frequently, people who get to weigh 266lbs aren't very active. That means they have decreased bone density, decreased oxidative ability, etc. If you tell someone who is in the process of trying to make themselves healthy to go out and work maximally against gravity in one of the highest impact activities out there, you're asking for an injury - stress fractures, shin splints, muscle strains, etc. Sure, he could work into sprinting, but that should probably take a few weeks, especially if he wasn't running on a track before. His ligaments and tendons in particular must adapt to a similar strain before they can be utilized for an activity that intense.

And clearly I wouldn't say that for everybody over 200lbs. Would I tell a significant portion of high school football players not to sprint? Hell no. Would I tell a shotputter not to run, even though it develops explosiveness? No. I'm talking about a previously sedentary individual who isn't used to that level of impact activity. Each pound of body mass increases the stress on a joint by roughly 3-5lbs in running. Depending on the individual's frame, that's a lot of senseless joint degeneration. I'd say let him hit within 10lbs of his goal weight before he did that. This is a dietary issue rather than an exercise issue anyhow.

 

[spamsk8r]

Your issue may be related to insulin-resistance as much as anything else, and also a lack of healthy fats in the diet. The higher your carbs and sugars, the more insulin your pancreas has to release, and the more insulin you have in your body at any given time, the lower your insulin sensitivity, which ultimately results in type-2 diabetes if it's bad enough. When you have high levels of insulin circulating in your system you can't burn fat (insulin turns of lipolysis (fat burning), whereas glucagon, insulin's "opposite" hormone, turns it on). Carbohydrate and some proteins (such as whey) increase insulin secretion, whereas fat is hormone-neutral in this regard. I wouldn't worry about getting more protein, that amount will do just fine (to give an example, I'm 5'10" 210 lbs. ~15% body fat doing strength training and Crossfit 4-5 times a week and I don't eat as much protein as you are, without losing any muscle). I would swap out the simple or dense carbs for more veggies and healthy fats (olive oil, coconut oil, fish, cashews, walnuts, almonds). I would also replace the sugar-filled protein shakes with real food, or at least use a pure whey protein powder without the added sugar.

In general: eat real food, not shakes, sugar, and flour.

 

[Kipper]

Your issue may be related to insulin-resistance as much as anything else, and also a lack of healthy fats in the diet. The higher your carbs and sugars, the more insulin your pancreas has to release, and the more insulin you have in your body at any given time, the lower your insulin sensitivity, which ultimately results in type-2 diabetes if it's bad enough. When you have high levels of insulin circulating in your system you can't burn fat (insulin turns of lipolysis (fat burning), whereas glucagon, insulin's "opposite" hormone, turns it on). Carbohydrate and some proteins (such as whey) increase insulin secretion, whereas fat is hormone-neutral in this regard. I wouldn't worry about getting more protein, that amount will do just fine (to give an example, I'm 5'10" 210 lbs. ~15% body fat doing strength training and Crossfit 4-5 times a week and I don't eat as much protein as you are, without losing any muscle). I would swap out the simple or dense carbs for more veggies and healthy fats (olive oil, coconut oil, fish, cashews, walnuts, almonds). I would also replace the sugar-filled protein shakes with real food, or at least use a pure whey protein powder without the added sugar.

In general: eat real food, not shakes, sugar, and flour.

I doubt it plays as much of a role as you're thinking. Usually all it takes to see tremendous biochemical improvements (i.e. markedly better lipid profile, increased insulin sensitivity, etc.) is a 5-10% weight loss - which is much less than most people think they need to lose. Obviously, the better shape you're in, the better, but OP has dropped nearly 20% and is exercising regularly, which will promote a high degree of insulin sensitivity.

That said, I completely agree that the simple sugars (as in the coffee, pretzels, and shakes) could be kept to a minimum. I don't think it's necessary to eliminate the "dense" carbs as you mentioned, since those are chock-full of fiber and given the dearth of vegetable in the diet will make a huge difference.

 

[thatsright]

During weekdays, the diet I posted for that one day is pretty much the same x5. And its so true about underestimating calories. Locally I would get a salad at a store and thought the calories was relatively low. But man I soooo underestimated the overall cal count. I've cut out a few things from the salad and have got a more manageable, non-damaging salad I still like.

One new question is if I should do more or less cardio? Right now I'm doing it once per week for about 35 minutes of alternating between jogging then walking, then strenuous climbing and cycling around like this. Should I stop this altogether, or add another day of cardio?

When I started doing the jogging about two months ago, I had moderate shin splints. But now I don't get those anymore. I'm not so crazy about doing sprints. Where am I going to do them in my (small) gym or out in the (soon) snow! Yikes!! haha.

 

[KoolDrew]

Another day of cardio wouldn't hurt, especially since it's not high intensity work and you're only doing one day as it is. Just don't expect one extra day of cardio to help your fat loss efforts much, if at all. If you're not losing, it's a dietary issue.

Also, how is your weekend diet?

 

[KoolDrew]

Your issue may be related to insulin-resistance as much as anything else, and also a lack of healthy fats in the diet. The higher your carbs and sugars, the more insulin your pancreas has to release, and the more insulin you have in your body at any given time, the lower your insulin sensitivity, which ultimately results in type-2 diabetes if it's bad enough. When you have high levels of insulin circulating in your system you can't burn fat (insulin turns of lipolysis (fat burning), whereas glucagon, insulin's "opposite" hormone, turns it on). Carbohydrate and some proteins (such as whey) increase insulin secretion, whereas fat is hormone-neutral in this regard. I wouldn't worry about getting more protein, that amount will do just fine (to give an example, I'm 5'10" 210 lbs. ~15% body fat doing strength training and Crossfit 4-5 times a week and I don't eat as much protein as you are, without losing any muscle). I would swap out the simple or dense carbs for more veggies and healthy fats (olive oil, coconut oil, fish, cashews, walnuts, almonds). I would also replace the sugar-filled protein shakes with real food, or at least use a pure whey protein powder without the added sugar.

In general: eat real food, not shakes, sugar, and flour.

While you're correct that insulin turns off lipolysis through suppression of HSL activity, you have to remember that in a normal healthy individual, insulin is only elevated after a meal. Thus, lipogenesis will only exceed lipolysis during the hours after a meal. During times of fasting, such as in between meals and during sleep, lipolysis will exceed lipogenesis. If you are not consuming more calories than you are expending, it will all balance out over a 24-hour period. If you're consuming less calories than you expend, any diet will cause fat loss, even a high carb diet despite what people may have you believe about high insulin levels driving fat gain. Even when insulin levels are low dietary fat will also suppress HSL activity. So even if you were to overeat on only fats, while insulin would be low, HSL activity would still be suppressed.

Also, whey is not the only protein to raise insulin levels. Whey happens to have a higher response than other proteins, but they do have a response (see this). Amino acids can directly stimulate your pancreas to produce insulin. Leucine seems to effect insulin secretion most. Research has shown the higher the leucine content, the larger the insulin response.

Also, glucagon does not increases lipolysis. It has been shown that it does in animals and in vitro, but recent research has shown it doesn't in humans (see this and this

 

[thatsright]

Update: Its been nearly a month since I started this thread, and I'm at the exact same weight: 217. About 10 days after I posted it, I briefly got down to 212 (so said my scale that morning). Now I routinley fluctuage between 214.6-217.6. My goal is to only loose fat. I have a fat loss monitor, and its @ 27.7%. For the few days when I was around 215lb, my fat loss % stayed the same.

I tried going two weeks without any cardio (which was just one day of 35min of jogging). Nothing changed. I went back to it, and for a few days it seemed to help with weight loss. But now, still stuck. What about adding more days of cardio?

 

[QuantumPion]

I would suggest cutting your calories by 10-20% and increasing your cardio substantially, like to 45-60 minutes, 4-5 times per week. Don't neglect weight training but make cardio your focus. And try to improve the amount you can do every day, don't stagnate at the same speed/distance.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

I would suggest cutting your calories by 10-20% and increasing your cardio substantially, like to 45-60 minutes, 4-5 times per week. Don't neglect weight training but make cardio your focus. And try to improve the amount you can do every day, don't stagnate at the same speed/distance.

Except cardio hones in your hunger sensation, making it more difficult to cut cardio. I'd say cut more calories, yes, but keep at your normal activity levels. It's way easier to cut calories, especially on a resistance training program without cardio than it is while doing endurance training. You can cut significantly more calories while only doing resistance training as well.

 

[thatsright]

Except cardio hones in your hunger sensation, making it more difficult to cut cardio. I'd say cut more calories, yes, but keep at your normal activity levels. It's way easier to cut calories, especially on a resistance training program without cardio than it is while doing endurance training. You can cut significantly more calories while only doing resistance training as well.

So SC, are you saying to cut out the cardio altogether? I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of the cardio. Its just not fun. But if I must do it, I will.

 

[NAC]

I would drop the cardio and do weight lifting. Building muscle uses energy, and once the muscle is build it burns energy just sitting there.

Second, I would keep a detailed and accurate eating log every day. There are online tools to help keep track of calories, fat, etc. Be honest with yourself regarding portions, and log EVERYTHING.

 

[mb]

Did you fix your diet?

 

[KoolDrew]

Honestly, if you're still only doing one day of cardio, it really isn't going to account for a huge calorie burn anyway, so it's not really going to help too much. Then again, some moderate cardio done once a week for 30 minutes isn't going to really cut into recovery (and could actually help), so I wouldn't say it's hurting your progress either. Cardio can definitely help when approaching lower bodyfat percentage (<10%), but really isn't required if your diet is spot on, and many can still get very lean with no cardio. However, some people do find by doing some form of exercise daily they tend to stick to their diet better, but this is definitely individual. Others tend to eat and crave more after exercise, and this definitely differs from individuals as well as intensity of the exercise.

If you want cardio to effect your fat loss, you're going to have to do a lot more of it. If you don't want to do more activity (since it's definitely not required), lower your calories by 10% instead. Fat loss is mainly a dietary issue anyway. Stop worrying about your workout and how much cardio you should do and start being honest with yourself with your diet. If you don't have one already, get a digital scale and start weighing your food daily and track everything you eat. Don't "forget" to track something because it was something "small" or something you think doesn't account for many calories.

Also, ignore your "fat loss monitor." Assuming it's a BIA device, it's horribly inaccurate and inconsistent.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

So SC, are you saying to cut out the cardio altogether? I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of the cardio. Its just not fun. But if I must do it, I will.

Yep. I know it sounds counterintuitive to getting healthier, but losing fat mass improves your health by default. If you read the fat loss sticky, you can see what kinds of food will make it easy to get full (on few calories). Honestly, when I cut, I never felt hungry. The instant I started doing cardio though, I was ravenous... and it all makes sense physiologically. If you don't lose weight while measuring all your food (exactly) and counting every calorie you put in your mouth (yes, even those 3 chips), drop the calories by 200-300cal, then keep going. You'll find the sweet spot. Keep lifting heavy too and you'll notice difference soon enough.

 

[QuantumPion]

Yep. I know it sounds counterintuitive to getting healthier, but losing fat mass improves your health by default. If you read the fat loss sticky, you can see what kinds of food will make it easy to get full (on few calories). Honestly, when I cut, I never felt hungry. The instant I started doing cardio though, I was ravenous... and it all makes sense physiologically. If you don't lose weight while measuring all your food (exactly) and counting every calorie you put in your mouth (yes, even those 3 chips), drop the calories by 200-300cal, then keep going. You'll find the sweet spot. Keep lifting heavy too and you'll notice difference soon enough.

I would still suggest at least trying a heavy cardio routine for a week or two. If the OP is depressed because his progress is stagnating, making a relatively small change to his diet plan may not help in that regard. If you make a big change in your routine by doing heavy cardio while keeping your diet the same, you will start noticeably losing weight right away, which will be encouraging.

 

[roguerower]

OP, I would suggest rowing. Not only is it a great cardio workout but if done properly it will work out more muscles than running will.