Strong Lifts .... want to move to daily routine

[Zivic]

1) A proper warmup will increase the amount of weight that you are able to lift during your actual workout, thereby maximizing muscle stimulation and growth.

2) A proper warmup will greatly decrease your chances of injury.

+1

 

[mple]

Just read over your workout log. The biggest problem i see hindering your progress is the fact that you aren't eating enough. 2.2k kcals/day plus all the cardio you're doing means your muscles aren't growing properly. All of your lifts can go up much further if you are willing to eat more

 

[Lamont Burns]

after looking at your log, you dont eat enough and you don't deadlift enough.

/thread

 

[Saint Nick]

If you want to split it up, you could just switch to a regular three- (legs, push, pull) or four-day (shoulder/tricep, back, chest/bicep, legs) split. Then pick whatever exercises you want. There are some good routines on BB.com if you look around enough.

I'm actually going to move back to SS (from a 3-day split) or a similar program once my home gym is finish (just need a bench now)

 

[KIAman]

I've been doing modified stronglifts too except I was doing 3x8 for each workout. I just started doing 5x5 because I was stalling on squats and deadlifts.

I'm in the same situation as you. When I first started, my total workout barely took 1 hour to complete. Now as the weights are heavier and I take longer breaks between sets, my workout has slowly climbed to 90 minutes.

I don't know what to do either except to take shorter breaks between sets. Currently, I take 5 minutes per squat, 4 minutes per overhead press, 4 minutes per bench press, 3 minutes per bent over rows and usually 5 minutes before I do my heavy set of deadlifts.

I do about 15 warmup reps per workout at bar, 30% of workout set, 60% and 90%.

Where can we save time because I cannot afford 90 minute workouts 3x a week?

Edit: Just for reference, what is considered "heavy?"

Squatting 255 5x5. Is that heavy? I have no clue.
Benching 185 5x5?!?

I've never seen a guy squatting more than me with good form at my gym but I've seen plenty of guys smaller than me benching 225 all the time.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Edit: Just for reference, what is considered "heavy?"

Squatting 255 5x5. Is that heavy? I have no clue.
Benching 185 5x5?!?

I've never seen a guy squatting more than me with good form at my gym but I've seen plenty of guys smaller than me benching 225 all the time.

When I use the word heavy I'm using weights over 85% of my max. Everything is relative, don't worry about what other people can lift when it comes to your programing.

 

[Zivic]

Edit: Just for reference, what is considered "heavy?"

Squatting 255 5x5. Is that heavy? I have no clue.
Benching 185 5x5?!?

heavy is relative..
for me a heavy workout is:
350+ bench presses
405+ squats
405+ deads

for "average people"
250+ bench
315 + squats
315 + deads

 

[Wyndru]

1) A proper warmup will increase the amount of weight that you are able to lift during your actual workout, thereby maximizing muscle stimulation and growth.

2) A proper warmup will greatly decrease your chances of injury.

Yup, and just for reference (I posted this in the warmup thread also) Mehdi from Stronglifts recommends this as a warmup guide:

http://stronglifts.com/5-rules-to-find-your-perfect-warm-up-weight/

1. Always start with 2 sets of 5 reps with the empty 45lb Olympic bar
2. Add 25-45lb/set - try equal increments without getting OCD about it
3. Do at least 4 warm-up sets - this includes the 2 sets with the empty bar
4. 5 reps per warm-up set - except on the last 2 sets where you do 3/2
5. Lift your warm-up sets like your work sets - focus, technique, speed

The only exercise that is different is deadlifts. He just recommends 1x5@135 for those, since your squats already warmed you up.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Just read over your workout log. The biggest problem i see hindering your progress is the fact that you aren't eating enough. 2.2k kcals/day plus all the cardio you're doing means your muscles aren't growing properly. All of your lifts can go up much further if you are willing to eat more

I can totally see that.

I appreciate you noticing the log by the way. At times, I wonder why i make it public ;-) My original intent was to help motivate others.

There are things going on my life.

1)
1 year ago, I weighed in at 230+. I was either going to replace my tight fitting 38" waists with 40" or fix the actual problem. I need to loose weight.

2)
general health. I want to be stronger. I went from not being able to run 90 minutes. to being able to run 3+ miles. I am stronger at 36 than I was in any other time in my life. I benched 200+ pounds for the first time in my life at age 35.


I guess that is that. I know some people focus on weight loss. Then focus on strength. I think there is rational behind it. The exercise helps with weight loss though. I have to keep it up.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Alot of good talk on what "heavy" means. I just view it as what requires 5 minutes rest between sets to do 5x5 with.

The 3x8 routine sounds interesting.

I suppose i also have a fear of just quitting strong lifts and doing something else.

BTW: I say squat. I actually have to do hack squats since I have no cage. I need to resolve that. But I can not find the cage I want at the price I want. Every day it gets closer to necessity (not want). My current bench is nearing it's limits.

To those just reading this (lurkers, etc). I want to add something. I am 36. My biceps/triceps are bigger than any time ion my life previously. It makes me happy. There are many things in life that make one happy. My mom is 80. She is open about things. recently she said that education, money, alot of what people view as important in general. It's all bullshit. Family is what matters. To get most out of life, you need to get the most out of family as you can. Health is the only superficial thing that can work towards that end. Want to look back on your life and smile? It is family. And health is a co-requisite for this. I know rich. I know poor. Quality of life has less to do with money and more to do with family.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

I've been pondering things for a bit now.

I have one option that I am strongly considering.
Day 1) SL (Squat, Bench, upright row)
Day 2) Rest
Day 3) Run
Day 4) SL (Squat, overhead, dead lift)
Day 5) Rest
Day 6) SL (Squat, Bench, upright row)
Day 7) Rest
Day 8) Run
Day 9) SL (Squat, overhead, dead lift)
Day 10) Rest

Repeat.

I am basically making a compromise between running and lifting. But running days will always be preceded by rest. As for SL, it is very much the pattern recommended by SL but with one extra rest day.

Quite frankly, I would like ht extra rest days just to get stuff done around the house.

As for SL. I am just starting to stall on squats. this is hte first time it is happening.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

heavy is relative..
for me a heavy workout is:
350+ bench presses
405+ squats
405+ deads

for "average people"
250+ bench
315 + squats
315 + deads

Heavy isn't defined in absolute values. It's set in relative terms. Typically, "heavy" for a strength training program is 80% of your one rep maximum and above. So for someone who has a 1RM squat of 300 pounds, working at weights at or above 240lbs is considered heavy enough and generates quick strength gains.

 

[Zivic]

Heavy isn't defined in absolute values. It's set in relative terms. Typically, "heavy" for a strength training program is 80% of your one rep maximum and above. So for someone who has a 1RM squat of 300 pounds, working at weights at or above 240lbs is considered heavy enough and generates quick strength gains.

hence my first line
"heavy is relative.."

but you defining it relative to someones 1RM isn't entirely accurate.. sure my absolute values doesn't define it entirely accurate either.....

a 300 lb squat for a 1RM is NOT heavy unless you are a <150 female...
So unless we bring, age, body weight, sex, and a couple other factors into the equation, my absolute values are pretty accurate for what I consider heavy for an "average person"

 

[Zivic]

I've been pondering things for a bit now.

I have one option that I am strongly considering.
Day 1) SL (Squat, Bench, upright row)
Day 2) Rest
Day 3) Run
Day 4) SL (Squat, overhead, dead lift)
Day 5) Rest
Day 6) SL (Squat, Bench, upright row)
Day 7) Rest
Day 8) Run
Day 9) SL (Squat, overhead, dead lift)
Day 10) Rest
.

You are still doing squats too often... at a bare minimum I would give myself 5 days between squat workouts... more optimally 7. heck, you could go 10 days if you are lifting "heavy"

IMHO your refined workout above is not better than your previous

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Zivic,

As much as I would love to quit squatting as much, it is the routine that Stronglifts advocates.

I don't know why I would prematurely change what SL requires.

I'm not quite to the weghts you are at. At 400+ pound squats, I'd be past the novice routine. I'm just not beyond novice yet.

I appreciate what you are saying. I just don't think I am ready to move to an intermediate program yet.

 

[Zivic]

Zivic,

As much as I would love to quit squatting as much, it is the routine that Stronglifts advocates.

I don't know why I would prematurely change what SL requires.

I'm not quite to the weghts you are at. At 400+ pound squats, I'd be past the novice routine. I'm just not beyond novice yet.

I appreciate what you are saying. I just don't think I am ready to move to an intermediate program yet.

if you are to the point of stalling... you are past a novice. as a novice, you can make gains simply walking through the door at the gym. if you are a point that your lifts are at a stand still you need to change something.

others have suggested eating more, which sounds like it would be beneficial.

I guess the thing is, I don't lift any differently now than I did when I was squating 200 lbs. Lift heavy, lots of rest, and make sure to get enough to eat.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Maybe I should just be content with minimal gains. I need to keep getting my weight down. Was at 230. My long term goal is 180 or so. Currently at 205.

Maybe you are right. I am just adhering to the book too much. I know enough at this point that I should be able to change to an intermediate program based on experience.

Well, I have officially failed 3 times on hack squat (my back squat alternative till I get a cage). I am going to deload. Move to 4 sets instead of 5 and see what happens when I get to my stall weight again.

I need to get a cage. Tomorrow I hope to get my taxes done. If a refund is coming, some of it is going to a cage.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Maybe I am beyond novice. Maybe I underestimate my abilities.

Thinking about things, my hack squat, deadlift and bench press form are pretty damned good compared to what I did before doing things properly (15 months ago).

So, today i tried out doing a 3x5 routine. Same thing as 5x5 really but I dropped 2 sets off of each exercise. I got it down to 60 minutes.

For fun, I did 2x5x185 on bench then did 1x3x195 for kicks. Point of this was to see if I could tdo 195 as progress has stalled. I think I could do 215+ once. Not bad seeing my PB is 205 thus far.

Should I consider mixing up reps/weights?

I am thinking about changing things up in a few ways. Post running, I might do some simple weight training exercises. For example, last time i did running, I did shoulder shrugs afterwards.

I started sketching a plan:
Day 1: lower body weights including macro stuff like squats and deadlift, toe raises
Day 2: Upper body only (bench, military press, arm curls
Day 3: Running followed by more upper body (shoulder shurgs)
Day 4: squat, deadlift, toe raises, etc ... similar to Day 1
Day 5: Upper body only (like Day 2)
Day 6: Run, simple upper body (shoulder shrugs?)

Point is:
day 1: lower body
Day 2: Upper body, specifically rest lower body
day 3: Run, upper body that differs from Day 2
day 4: lower body
Day 5: Upper body, specifically rest lower body
day 6: Run, upper body that differs from Day 2
day 7: he rests

The whole point of this is to do running which is lower body only after a day of rest for the lower body. The following day, lower body weights can be done since running is not that taxing.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

I tried a workout last night. Yesterday was running, so today I shortened things to 3x5s and it worked out great.

I am currently thinking:
Day 1) Squat, deadlift, toe raises
Day 2) Bench Press, Military Press, Bent Over Rows
Day 3) run 3 miles, shoulder shrugs, pull ups
Day 4) Squat, deadlift, toe raises
Day 5) Bench Press, Military Press, Bent Over Rows
Day 6) run 3 miles, shoulder shrugs, dips
Day 7) rest
repeat)

I can't do pulls ups and dips till I get my cage but this is my current thought. Wouldn't mind doing arm curls one day. Maybe on a running day?

 

[Lamont Burns]

Maybe I am beyond novice. Maybe I underestimate my abilities.

A reference I check sometimes.

http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/BenchStandards.html

 

[Lamont Burns]

I tried a workout last night. Yesterday was running, so today I shortened things to 3x5s and it worked out great.

I am currently thinking:
Day 1) Squat, deadlift, toe raises
Day 2) Bench Press, Military Press, Bent Over Rows
Day 3) run 3 miles, shoulder shrugs, pull ups
Day 4) Squat, deadlift, toe raises
Day 5) Bench Press, Military Press, Bent Over Rows
Day 6) run 3 miles, shoulder shrugs, dips
Day 7) rest
repeat)

I can't do pulls ups and dips till I get my cage but this is my current thought. Wouldn't mind doing arm curls one day. Maybe on a running day?

I'd rather see you add curls than shrugs. However everyone is different. Looking at that my shoulders and traps are running for the hills. Again it all depends on volume and % of 1RM.

You over think things too much imo. I found my greatest progress came once I stopped wondering about XYZ all day and just stuck to a program.

I see this stalling unless you eat like a horse.

 

[Pantlegz]

I'd rather see you add curls than shrugs. However everyone is different. Looking at that my shoulders and traps are running for the hills. Again it all depends on volume and % of 1RM.

You over think things too much imo. I found my greatest progress came once I stopped wondering about XYZ all day and just stuck to a program.

I see this stalling unless you eat like a horse.

I think shrugs can translate to other lifts better than curls. Deadlift and Cleans specifically.

That said... you program probably isn't going to work. If you're lifting heavy Squat/Deads on the same day are rough, even if you're doing one lighter they're still rough. If you're looking for something different or with more variety check out ws4sb3(http://www.elitefts.com/ws4sb/WS4SB.pdf) by default it's a 4 day routine and you could run in between, if you can. If you are going to go with yours change the sets/reps on days 1/2 and 4/5 one set heavier(5x5ish) and the other lighter but more reps(3x8ish) and add more accessory work if you're working towards a more intermediate/advance routine accessory work will benefit you more. focus on accessory work that will strengthen a weakness in your compound lifts. It's something that I'll admit I've had a hard time doing too, but changes are being made.

 

[mple]

SS and SL are primarily strength building routines. They REQUIRE that you eat in caloric excess in order to make gains. Right now it seems you are focused on cutting to 180. You can cut to 180 while making progression on your lifts, but it'll likely take over a year (assuming 2600 kcals per day, 0.5lb of fat loss per week) and your gains will progress slowly. Best to just focus on either bulking or cutting. Aggressive cutting (which is what you're doing, assuming you're still eating <2000 kcals) will results in some muscle wasting too. Don't be surprised if your lifts go down once you drop below 200lbs.

That being said, what I would do in your situation: Cut down the cardio (cardio burns fat AND muscle) but instead of progressing in weights on successful workouts, progress in reps until you can do 8-10 reps per set. Sort of a mix of hypertrophy and strength training. That way you'll maintain some definition once you hit 180 instead of looking skinny fat. Once at target weight, switch back on SL5x5 and start eating in caloric excess (if your goal is to increase strength) or find a 5-day split routine and do hypertrophy training if you're after aesthetics.

 

[Pantlegz]

Cutting on a 5x5 is no problem, I made most of my losses and gains on a 5x5 just by altering my diet. As long as you don't go too low on the calories it's not an issue, maybe slower losses than otherwise but you also don't lose strength. I do agree with the cutting running. HIIT is more beneficial than just straight running, or even better get a sled or prowler and move that around a little. (power) cleans for reps are also good cardio work with resistance. Or a sledge hammer on a tire, or flipping a 400lb tire. Personally I wouldn't run at all unless you're doing something that requires you to run... that stuff isn't good for you.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Read an article at bodybuilding.com. It said that running twice a week is sufficient to maintain one's ability to run a few miles non stop. I think they said a 20 minute run should be the max though. And that more than 2 runs a week can be detrimental to to strength building.

So what I am tring to say is that there is minimal impact on strength training if you run twice a week for 20 minutes per run.

I do a run once a week that is 3 miles (27 minutes) and play basketball. Basketball is alot more than a 3 mile run equivilent though.

I intend to keep on running.

CALORIES:
I figure my mainteneance with my exercise program is 2500-3000 calories somewhere. I'm thinking 2600-2700 is accurate. 3000 is unlikely. I am currently taking in a daily average of about 2000 in any given week.