Stop teaching cursive writing in schools ?

[ric0chet06]

We spent so much time learning cursive, and teachers telling us ''you'll be using this every day in high school!'' I never once used it in HS, never use it to this day. Use it for my signature and that's it.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Originally posted by: Babbles

Originally posted by: Zeeky Boogy Doog

Originally posted by: Babbles

Originally posted by: Zeeky Boogy Doog

Originally posted by: SagaLore

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
Cursive is not faster at all when you first learn it. It takes years of practice for you to get better.

Agreed, anything perfected takes time. I think your issue with inability to read average cursive is... your issue.

We can't drop items from the curriculum just because it takes time. Otherwise, given the same argument about typing on keyboards, we might as well dump trig, algebra, and calculus, since the computers do that for us as well. Most people on here hardly use math at all, except for simple add, sub, div, and mult. That doesn't mean it wasn't worthwhile to learn it in school. Most of what we learn, we never use directly in life. But it wrinkles our brain; makes us think more efficiently.

That's a horrible argument. What builds off of the ability to write in cursive? Reading cursive. What builds off of simple math? Everything else in math. Cursive script is exactly as useful as it's prevalence in society, which is quickly approaching 0.

Cursive is an incredibly useless skill, at best you might get hired over someone else with the exact same skill set minus the ability to write in cursive, but no one will ever hire you for knowing how to write well in cursive. The things math is teaching is analogous to grammar, not cursive, learning Roman Numerals would be an apt comparison, which has been almost completely phased out.

I was forced to write in cursive until 6th grade, the first day of 7th grade I found out we were no longer required to write in cursive and I immediately stopped. I can only imagine how much good knowledge could have been gained if we had not had to learn cursive and instead had focused more on grammar. I stopped reading the papers of fellow students during in class workshops in seventh grade, it was painful, there is literally no way to tell a person how poorly they write. You could immediately tell when a parent had checked over a paper before bringing it to class. Hell, that's almost exclusively how I learned to write, English class was a joke. Actually, scratch that, school was a joke. I did almost ZERO homework at home and quite literally no studying all the way through high school and graduated with a 3.9 something (4.0 with weighted AP classes, w00t?).

I want to emphasize this for those who have been out of school for some time, I opened a book at home to study twice throughout all of high school, once for a Spanish test, which amounted to me writing different verb tenses for 20 minutes and growing bored, and once for one of my AP World History tests, which actually meant I had the book open for 15 minutes while I watched TV (I got a 96% on that test, I remember this quite clearly because I almost couldn't believe it, other people in the class were studying for hours and barely got C's, I watched Seinfeld and got an A...). My AP World History class was also the only good class I really had through high school, it was the only one requiring any sort of critical thinking, which almost everyone in the class failed at miserably. THIS is what we need to be focusing on. School as a whole is failing, and it's not because we are or are not teaching cursive, our schools suck. We need to teach the things cursive teaches our brains to do without teaching cursive, it is, within itself, an incredibly worthless skill.

I have more to rant about, but I'll just get even more pissed so I won't... I'm 20 BTW.

Studies show that learning cursive aids in the development of the brain; so in a sense learning cursive may assist you in learning math, which by your own admission can be used to build on other skills.

Your rambling post is indicative of somebody who lacks the ability to critically think about the impact and development of fundamental skill-sets and how those skills may translate into benefits outside of their original scope.

In regards to the remainder of your post - who knows that the hell you are rambling on and on about.

Reread the part I put in bold. Admittedly my writing is rusty, but let me provide you cliffs just incase:

-Cursive is a worthless skill
-The inability to communicate has nothing to do with cursive
-The things cursive teaches our brains can be taught other ways
-Our schools suck massive nuts

Edit: Reminder, my incoherent rambling was enough to graduate within the top 5% of my class of about 500, I'm not saying my rambling is good, just that it's better than 95% of my class was able to produce. Our schools suck, and no amount of pounding the same shit into different heads is going to fix it.

Wow, great so a 20 year old kid bragging about high school . . . congratulations?

You are not displaying an iota of critical thinking or you would otherwise understand what I am saying.

Your premise that cursive is a worthless skill is, ironically itself worthless. You do not have the means to make that statement, and academic and medical researchers say otherwise. Then again you graduated in the top 5% of your high school so maybe you know more than professional scientists, who knows.

Additionally I am sure there may be other techniques to develop the brain in the same way as cursive handwriting practices, practically speaking it makes no logical sense to try new unproven methodologies to replace and established proven method. Especially when time and cost are significant factors.

Do you have a link to any of these studies you have so arrogantly mentioned?

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: ViviTheMage
cursive was only a few weeks! easy.

Bullshit, I spent a long time on "handwriting" and cursive is fucking pointless.

THIS

i cant even read the stupid shit anymore

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: ric0chet06
We spent so much time learning cursive, and teachers telling us ''you'll be using this every day in high school!'' I never once used it in HS, never use it to this day. Use it for my signature and that's it.

I also always found this funny. We were told the same thing in grade school. In HS we had teachers that would auto fail you if you handed in something that was not typed

 

[waffleironhead]

I laugh at all the time spent learning cursive in grade school , then all the time I spent in HS learning the Block Print for Drafting Classes. The used neither skill as word processing and autocad made them both unnecessary.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: waffleironhead
I laugh at all the time spent learning cursive in grade school , then all the time I spent in HS learning the Block Print for Drafting Classes. The used neither skill as word processing and autocad made them both unnecessary.

Do you know how much a difference that time spent in grade school made in the development of your brain ? How about finger painting in art class ? no job skill there, so we should cut that too. Music in school ? What is the point unless you grow up to be a musician. Recess ? Lets do away with that as well, focus more on math. Cut sports too, no need for it unless you are going to go pro.

Some of this stuff we may not see the direct need for. There is a correlation between how as we increase technology use in learning, people are losing the ability to do anything without it.

 

[Babbles]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca



Do you have a link to any of these studies you have so arrogantly mentioned?

Words mean things.

I just stated points that studies exist. However it is you who is so arrogant and failed to notice one link that was posted previously in this thread.

It is not my job to 'educate' you, especially if you fail to read the thread in which you post. If you want to become a bit more astute on this topic, perhaps you should go forth and Google the info for yourself. With that being said, This Abstract about handwriting in general may be somewhat relevant.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Originally posted by: Babbles

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca



Do you have a link to any of these studies you have so arrogantly mentioned?

Words mean things.

I just stated points that studies exist. However it is you who is so arrogant and failed to notice one link that was posted previously in this thread.

It is not my job to 'educate' you, especially if you fail to read the thread in which you post. If you want to become a bit more astute on this topic, perhaps you should go forth and Google the info for yourself. With that being said, This Abstract about handwriting in general may be somewhat relevant.

Interesting links. I did go back and found one I had missed earlier. However, I did read the whole thread, I just missed one part.

BTW I was referring to your general tone. All your posts are absolutely dripping with sarcastic, passive-aggressive superiority. Can you even hear yourself?

 

[FelixDeCat]

Originally posted by: IsLNdbOi

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
I love cursive handwriting. Heres a sample of mine. Every little skull full of mush out there in 3rd grade needs to learn it so we can preserve our ability to express ourselves without electricity or in simple rudimentary block text.

Long live cursive handwriting! :beer:

Can you read this sample resignation letter I copied?

http://img17.imageshack.us/img.../sampleresignation.png


Did this in a minute on a plain white printer paper. Makes me feel good that I can do something (even as insignificant as this) that many people can't or have forgotten how to do.

I can read it as your penmenship is superb compared to my chicken scratch. :frown:

 

[waffleironhead]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: waffleironhead
I laugh at all the time spent learning cursive in grade school , then all the time I spent in HS learning the Block Print for Drafting Classes. The used neither skill as word processing and autocad made them both unnecessary.

Do you know how much a difference that time spent in grade school made in the development of your brain ? How about finger painting in art class ? no job skill there, so we should cut that too. Music in school ? What is the point unless you grow up to be a musician. Recess ? Lets do away with that as well, focus more on math. Cut sports too, no need for it unless you are going to go pro.

Some of this stuff we may not see the direct need for. There is a correlation between how as we increase technology use in learning, people are losing the ability to do anything without it.

How can you be so sure that learning to type does not fill the void that not learning cursive will create? Links to properly vetted study of the development of the brain in relation to cursive please?

That aside I find it a bit dramatic to relate art/music/recess with learning write.

 

[Zeeky Boogy Doog]

Originally posted by: Babbles

Wow, great so a 20 year old kid bragging about high school . . . congratulations?

You are not displaying an iota of critical thinking or you would otherwise understand what I am saying.

Your premise that cursive is a worthless skill is, ironically itself worthless. You do not have the means to make that statement, and academic and medical researchers say otherwise. Then again you graduated in the top 5% of your high school so maybe you know more than professional scientists, who knows.

Additionally I am sure there may be other techniques to develop the brain in the same way as cursive handwriting practices, practically speaking it makes no logical sense to try new unproven methodologies to replace and established proven method. Especially when time and cost are significant factors.

You've arrogantly ignored the entire point of my post, and I was not bragging about high school, I was trying to point out how pathetic it was. Let me spell it out for you.

Premise 1) If learning to write cursive creates certain connections in our brains that allow us to learn and develop certain skills, and Chinese children do not learn cursive, there is almost certainly something else that does the same thing.

Premise 2) Cursive is an outdated method of communication.

Conclusion) We should find another method of teaching these skills. AKA, cursive is worthless.

Interestingly, using your argument.

Premise 1) You repeatedly failed to understand my post.

Premise 2) Learning cursive during early education allows for one's brain to develop a great deal.

Conclusion) You should have worked harder to learn cursive as a child.

I'm done with you unless you actually try to read. Have a nice day!

Edited for clarity

 

[oogabooga]

SagaLore : Until I read your post today - I felt the years spent drilling cursive into me was wasted. Even after reading what you have written - I still feel they were at least misrepresented.

While your point is interesting, not once has cursive ever been presented this way at any stage of my education. Cursive was something I would need to be able to succeed in high school and beyond. The reality of course was by 6th grade not only was cursive not necessary, it was practically prohibited.

In college it was one of those things that is done in elementary school that had little or no value. At least with art or music you could argue the exploration of creativity - but with cursive it was more an outdated regiment, a system of the past that was no longer needed or relevant with no practical benefit (Again, this is the thought before reading your post and I admit I'm not entirely sold cursive helped all that much)

Should they stop teaching cursive? I don't think so, but they certainly should not place anywhere near the emphasis they do. I went to three different elementary school in three different school districts in two different major metropolitan areas on account of having to move a lot as a kid. One constant was the emphasis placed on the need for cursive, a need that never panned out.

I don't think we should teach less to children and certainly knowing cursive would not be worse than not knowing cursive. But they certainly in my opinion could emphasis it quite a bit less than they do. Although I admit, when I was in elementary school, after we practiced our cursive we could also go through a nuclear attack/earthquake drill and practice getting under our desks. So maybe things have changed and they already emphasis it a lot less.

If they don't emphasize the need for cursive, they certainly can place it on penmanship in general. If we had a poll in ATOT for how many people can't read their own writing (when they are jotting down notes or a message), I don't think it would surprise anyone if the majority of people said that they couldn't.

Originally posted by: InflatableBuddha
Well-stated, Perknose. It's sad that so many people today are so lazy and impulsive that they cannot be bothered to spend a bit of time crafting cohesive, original thoughts. Writing in cursive forces you to plan your letter, and it engages your emotions as you transform them into written thoughts.

No matter how convenient and instantaneous technology is, it cannot replace art and feeling. We ignore this to our detriment.

Isn't this more a lament over the loss of well crafted letters/thoughts and not so much cursive, even cursive vs print? I don't understand how a lot of what you mention can't be done over a letter written in print, or even (dare I say) email or perhaps say a forum post.

Even in perknose's post itself

Perknose
And . . . it's not the loss of cursive itself that I will mourn. It is the more considered and disciplined culture of general literacy and deferred gratification and depth and structure of thought that goes part and parcel with it that I will miss.

I don't think the loss of cursive is the loss of "disciplined culture of general literacy". I don't disagree with what I think is the point Perknose/you are trying to make, but I don't think that cursive has any real effect on this.

Originally posted by: Zeeky Boogy Doog
Edited for clarity

I still don't think it's all that clear

edit : forgot to close a quote. Which was not caused by time spent or lack thereof on cursive handwriting skills.

 

[mixxedstuff]

*skips most of the 10 pages*

We learned it in 3rd and 4th grade, mostly through regular handwriting classtime, and that abominable Johnny Can Spell program.

8th grade English eventually came along, and I was explicitly told to write in print or I would fail the class

Needless to say, I haven't really used cursive since.

 

[JMapleton]

How are we supposed to write checks?

 

[waffleironhead]

Originally posted by: JMapleton
How are we supposed to write checks?

You still use checks? I have not used them in years. CC/CASH/Online Billpay.

 

[Q]

Cursive is neat, though I never use it it's a part of elementary school tradition

 

[JMapleton]

Originally posted by: waffleironhead
You still use checks? I have not used them in years. CC/CASH/Online Billpay.

You got to write checks sometimes. I write about two a month. I pay the rest online and in person.

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: Zeeky Boogy Doog
You've arrogantly ignored the entire point of my post, and I was not bragging about high school, I was trying to point out how pathetic it was. Let me spell it out for you.

Premise 1) If learning to write cursive creates certain connections in our brains that allow us to learn and develop certain skills, and Chinese children do not learn cursive, there is almost certainly something else that does the same thing.

Premise 2) Cursive is an outdated method of communication.

Conclusion) We should find another method of teaching these skills. AKA, cursive is worthless.

Yes, but the written Chinese language is composed of picto/ideographic glyphs, which may* make up for the lack of cursive in their brain development.

*I'm not a neurologist; it's a guess.

 

[ballmode]

I actually forgot how to write in cursive

 

[AstroManLuca]

Originally posted by: JMapleton

Originally posted by: waffleironhead
You still use checks? I have not used them in years. CC/CASH/Online Billpay.

You got to write checks sometimes. I write about two a month. I pay the rest online and in person.

Why is cursive necessary to write checks?

Also,

Originally posted by: oogabooga
...an outdated regiment,...

That's regimen. Ironic in a thread where you have people decrying the loss of literacy.

 

[Cogman]

I wouldn't dislike cursive as much if it wasn't for the fact that all through elementary school I was told "You'll us it ALL the time, every class after this will use cursive, College professors will DEMAND it. Your very future DEPENDS on your knowledge of cursive". Yeah, I've never used it since.

Heck, I can tell you straight out that there where several years of elementary school that where completely useless from a learning point of view. The entire 4th grade (yeah, lets spend half the year learning all the counties of Idaho, and the Idaho state horse! This knowledge is very important!). Most of the 5th grade (Ok, lets just go over everthing you've done in the past 4 years). ect.

Give the kids some info that they can use. Heck, teach algebra in the 4th grade, its not as advanced as the public school system tries to make it out to be.

 

[Zeeky Boogy Doog]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: Zeeky Boogy Doog
You've arrogantly ignored the entire point of my post, and I was not bragging about high school, I was trying to point out how pathetic it was. Let me spell it out for you.

Premise 1) If learning to write cursive creates certain connections in our brains that allow us to learn and develop certain skills, and Chinese children do not learn cursive, there is almost certainly something else that does the same thing.

Premise 2) Cursive is an outdated method of communication.

Conclusion) We should find another method of teaching these skills. AKA, cursive is worthless.

Yes, but the written Chinese language is composed of picto/ideographic glyphs, which may* make up for the lack of cursive in their brain development.

*I'm not a neurologist; it's a guess.

I thought of that too as I was writing it and suspect you're correct, and the answer simply lies finding a way to combine logical analysis with the creative functions of the brain, apparently cursive does a better job of "painting a picture" with words than block print, but that fact doesn't mean that cursive itself is necessary, only the function it performs in the developmental process has been proven to be beneficial. Why not find a better/more relevant way to promote this development?

 

[InflatableBuddha]

Originally posted by: Zeeky Boogy Doog

Originally posted by: Babbles

Wow, great so a 20 year old kid bragging about high school . . . congratulations?

You are not displaying an iota of critical thinking or you would otherwise understand what I am saying.

Your premise that cursive is a worthless skill is, ironically itself worthless. You do not have the means to make that statement, and academic and medical researchers say otherwise. Then again you graduated in the top 5% of your high school so maybe you know more than professional scientists, who knows.

Additionally I am sure there may be other techniques to develop the brain in the same way as cursive handwriting practices, practically speaking it makes no logical sense to try new unproven methodologies to replace and established proven method. Especially when time and cost are significant factors.

You've arrogantly ignored the entire point of my post, and I was not bragging about high school, I was trying to point out how pathetic it was. Let me spell it out for you.

Premise 1) If learning to write cursive creates certain connections in our brains that allow us to learn and develop certain skills, and Chinese children do not learn cursive, there is almost certainly something else that does the same thing.

Premise 2) Cursive is an outdated method of communication.

Conclusion) We should find another method of teaching these skills. AKA, cursive is worthless.

Interestingly, using your argument.

Premise 1) You repeatedly failed to understand my post.

Premise 2) Learning cursive during early education allows for one's brain to develop a great deal.

Conclusion) You should have worked harder to learn cursive as a child.

I'm done with you unless you actually try to read. Have a nice day!

Edited for clarity

Your ignorance is appalling. Thinking outside the realm of the English-speaking world for just a moment, consider that Kanji, Mandarin, and Arabic, among other modern languages, all contain curved characters similar in principle to cursive English. Do you think those children are not learning valuable developmental skills when they learn to properly form those characters by hand?

Cursive does not take an onerous amount of classroom time to learn, and as some of the links in this thread have shown, it enhances visual-motor and perception skills, among others.

I'm sorry to hear that your high school experience was such a joke. Perhaps you are just bitter that you haven't been properly challenged intellectually. I hope that your college education is more stimulating and teaches you some modesty and tact.

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: polarmystery

Originally posted by: FleshLight
Cursive is used extensively in the engineering field. Our entire senior project (design a water reservoir) has to be written in cursive.

*looks around cubicle*

Nope, no cursive anywhere.

None in mine either. Anyways, why is your prof even accepting anything that isn't typed? Everything we do is electronic besides lab notebooks and our own notes in meetings.

 

[nageov3t]

I was taught cursive in school.

I haven't written using it since 7th grade (I had this insane science teacher who auto-F'd anything printed... this was before home PC's were really common, in the early 90's). my printing is neater than my cursive, faster, and more legible, and personally, having to read anything long written in cursive makes me angry and resentful towards whoever wrote it unless they're like geriatric.

I sign my name with a sort of stylized print (or I used to... lately I've just been doing a stylized V and a scribbly line that sort of approximates what the rest of my last name would look like)