Pliablemoose
Lifer
And don't forget, Apple is building the world's (single) largest server farm in North Carolina(?) IIRC...
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Steve Jobs posts his thoughts on Flash
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Re: Fragmentation. I don't think Google has a choice in the matter. If a telco/manufacturer decides to customize their version of Android, it's on them not Google to provide updates. No one is stopping them from staying with stock Android. The nexus one gets updates immediately. Sense phones have just barely gotten/are just getting 2.1 because HTC has to update their custom ui.
So if the twitter app doesn't work with most phones, because those phones have custom ui's that aren't on 2.1, what is google supposed to do - force them to update to a new version immediately after it's out? That's the nature of the open platform.
So if the twitter app doesn't work with most phones, because those phones have custom ui's that aren't on 2.1, what is google supposed to do - force them to update to a new version immediately after it's out? That's the nature of the open platform.
I don't think anyone can really dispute your point, but it does not change the fact that fragmentation can be a huge hassle for consumers and owners of Android devices.
QueBert
Lifer
Then Google needs to do a better job educating people about the phones IMHO. I know what to look for, but a lot of people will simply walk into T-Mobile or Verizon, play with an Android phone and go "OH SHIT I want this!" That person shouldn't be expected to "know" there are different devices and some Android software might not work on the one they're getting. Back in the days PC games would have the requirement "requires PC-AT or 100% compatible system" Because there use to be off brand PC's in the late 80's that weren't quite 100% compatible. This is doubly important to Google and all the companies who make Android handsets because it's the only phone I can think of where this is a problem. I'm getting a Moto Droid next week and I kind of already expect some of the programs I want to work to not work. But for the uninformed I don't think they'll be ok when they discover something they're trying to install won't run for them. If they want this phone to really take off they need to get it in the hands of the non geeks. Right now geeks are buying them up left and right, but once the geeks all have one they need the non techie folks to start buying them in big numbers. I dunno one dumb person who has a 'Droid device.
theeedude
Lifer
Back to the topic, an uninformed Android user discovering some apps won't work on his older device is no bigger issue than an uninformed iPhone user discovering he can't run Flash apps on his brand new one. Do you think it's Apple's responsibility to warn iPhone buyers they got no Flash support too? Also is Apple guaranteeing that current iPhone owners will be able to run all of 4G iPhone apps? If 4G apps are written for bigger screen and more powerful CPUs and new APIs, guess what, Apple is going to have fragmentation issue too. The only difference is that Android is currently progressing at a much faster pace than iPhone OS, but once the OS matures, I expect that major updates will happen less often. Also, this is easily addressable by having an app store only present apps that are compatible with your device, so the uninformed don't install something incompatible to begin with.
QueBert
Lifer
There's a huge difference between expecting an iPhone to run something that's not made by Apple and a person who owns an Android device expecting it to run an ANDROID application. I wouldn't call the 2nd person stupid for expecting to be able to install an Android app on their Android phone, that should be common sense.
It's not the largest datacenter in terms of square-footage. It's under half the size of the biggest. It might be in terms of compute power, but I doubt it.
That said, it IS a big datacenter. 🙂
theeedude
Lifer
Android applications aren't made by google necessarily either, and there is no guarantee that Apps written for iPhone OS4 phones will work on current OS 3 ones either. If OS API's, screen resolution and processing power are improved, new apps are going to take advantage of it, while older can't, you can call it fragmentation, but that's just life. And yes, it is stupid to automatically assume just because you have an old version Android phone, you will be able to run all apps written for future versions of Android that your phone doesn't support.
At the risk of contracting some sort of disease from this dead horse....
Comparing the different versions of the iphone to the alleged android fragmentation issue is disingenuous imo. Apple and AT&T make a pretty clear delineation between the new and old versions of the iphone. Even my mom knows that "this summer the new iphone is coming out" and that there won't be another one until next summer. With Android phones, the division is not as clear cut. Now, that is not an issue for anyone who reads this forum, but for other, less tech-savvy, folks, it is a problem. To say otherwise is obtuse. Sure, you can debate the degree to which it is an issue, but outright denying it or comparing it against some hypothetical fragmentation once the new iphone comes out is silly.
zerocool84
Lifer
Hypothetical fragmentation? We already know there's fragmentation when OS4 comes out. Also how does your mom know that a new iPhone is coming out? She must read tech sites then. She's obviously tech-savvy then.
What I really find funny is that all you Apple guys are saying that Flash is not important cus YOU think it's not important. Never mind the millions of other people that use it and want to use it but just because YOU guys don't think it's important, Apple is in the right for not letting people use it when it is indeed needed for many sites and that many sites out there that are Flash only will never get changed to HTML5 so it's ok for people who want to surf the web as it is TODAY to be assed out cus you say so. Instead you are all making excuses why it's not the future when you buy products to surf the web it is today, not years from now and flash is how the web is today and it's important to everyone's viewing experience. Yes there are apps that solve the problem for many sites but it doesn't cover the whole web and the million of sites that use flash exclusively. Sorry guys say what you want but flash is important TODAY. Not 2 or 3 years from now but TODAY and products that people buy today are meant to be used for today.
Oh, come on, Zero. 🙂 My dad is about the least tech savvy person that I know of and even he's heard that there's a new iPhone coming out this summer and a prototype was lost and some kid found it and then they tore the door of the hinges of the house trying to get it back - or something else that bears little semblance to what really happened... but regardless of whether my dad has the story correct or not, even my father has heard there's a new iPhone coming out.
you are totally clueless are you?... plug-in are MADE FOR SPECIFIC (versions of )BROWSER, not os nor phone specific.
theeedude
Lifer
You are being presumptuous, that somehow these less tech-savvy users are buying these devices for the apps they may or may not download, and not the software they see in the store when they look at the device. I think those users go into the store they play with the device as it is, they like it, they buy it. If they really are buying it to run certain apps, they can go to app developer's website and see hardware and OS requirements, just like people have been doing for decades with PC software, and will have to do with iPhone Apps too when newer phones come out. This Android "fragmentation" non-issue is something that is basically the nature of software business and nothing specific to Android.
theeedude
Lifer
Zero is spot on, I love how Apple Fanbois are telling us how Flash is unimportant but ability of old versions of Android to run latest apps is just so crucial.
There is an expectation that when you buy a tablet marketed as "the best way to experience the web," that it be able to render web content as it is today, that is a reasonable expectation, since Apple does not warn its customers that the iPad they are buying can't render the whole web.
The expectation that old OS and speed spec hardware be able to run apps that it does not meet requirements for is not a reasonable expectation, it's a nice bonus if it happens to run them, but it's not realistic for all apps.
There is an expectation that when you buy a tablet marketed as "the best way to experience the web," that it be able to render web content as it is today, that is a reasonable expectation, since Apple does not warn its customers that the iPad they are buying can't render the whole web.
The expectation that old OS and speed spec hardware be able to run apps that it does not meet requirements for is not a reasonable expectation, it's a nice bonus if it happens to run them, but it's not realistic for all apps.
Pliablemoose
Lifer
LOL, my 80 year old mother asked me about the new iPhone, it was all over the mass media with the Giz story.
And as far as the Android fragmentation issue, at least Apple is up front with the issue, you have to be pretty familiar with the various versions of Android to figure out what's going on.
What I'm seeing is that some Android fans are just as rabid as the Apple fans...
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theeedude
Lifer
If Apple is so up front why don't they warn users they won't be able to run Flash on their iPads? Apple just gets more media coverage, not that they themselves are more upfront than Google.
Does Google update the browser separately from the OS then? Because if they don't then the OS version does matter.
So, if the browser is update with the OS, then you are just arguing semantics as to whether they are maintaining with the OS or the browser, on way or another Adobe will need to make sure they maintain pace, or it all falls through.
again, your comment displays your incompetence.
there are third party browsers for google.
Again, your comment displays your hostility. GG&P is a technical forum - personal attacks are not allowed.
-ViRGE
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I believe that it would display ignorance rather than incompetence. However, enlighten me, if I had an android device, and downloaded one of these alternate browsers, would the same version of any given one work with all version of Android?
If yes, then Adobe can support that one in addition to the browser that Android ships with.
But, you haven't answered my question, is the stock browser updated with the OS or on its own? Again, wouldn't Adobe have to make sure that their updates coincide with the browser updates?
Pliablemoose
Lifer
The press release on Apple's main page and coverage by all of the media isn't enough? http://www.apple.com/ bottom left corner, been there for a couple of weeks now.
Perhaps a sticker that says "This device doesn't run Flash" should be required by law.
And, I don't know if you've noticed, but you seem to be the only person saying fragmentation isn't an issue with Android. Even Google refers to it for their developers so they can make a choice when developing apps.
rudeguy
Lifer
I still don't understand what the big flipping deal about fragmentation is. I have yet to download an app that said "sorry, you are using an outdated OS and are shit out of luck". The only app that I know of that only works on 2.x is the official Twitter app. But there are tons of better Twitter apps out there that work on 1.X.
Pliablemoose
Lifer
Google Earth...
And the native apps that come with the OS, browser, gallery, etc...
And the native apps that come with the OS, browser, gallery, etc...
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In some ways, fragmentation is a non-issue because you only see apps that are supported by your version of Android (at least, that was my understanding). The average tech geek person would be frustrated because you'd see all this cool stuff available for the latest versions. But I couldn't even see Google Earth on the market until I got 2.1 on the phone.
The tough part is all the different hardware out there that will soon be running 2.1. I imagine it's difficult for some app developers to write something that will work well on all the different hardware as opposed to the software.
The Droid Eris is supposed to be pretty speedy with the leaked 2.1, but it may not necessarily be able to handle some of the 2.1 apps like Google Earth. I don't know if anyone here has tried it or not.
Maybe hardware fragmentation > software fragmentation?
theeedude
Lifer
It's no more of an issue on Android than on any other software stack. It's a given that when you buy some hardware running some OS, that progress of time does not magically stop and that future hardware and OS's will have capability to run things yours won't. Current iPad buyers won't be able to do video chat, but future ones will, FRAGMENTATION!!!
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