Steve Jobs posts his thoughts on Flash

[theeedude]

I don't understand your point.

If Flash is so indispensable, then Apple will take a sales and market-share hit, and be forced to change their stance.

It's not rocket surgery...

Sounds like you do understand my point.

 

[TheStu]

Until such time as Apple actually sees people going to other platforms, and knows that it is just because of Flash, they aren't going to do anything. They have sold 50 million iPhones and I think that many iPod Touches. That is 100 million devices, all of which use the App Store (meaning software lockin, if you have a bunch of Apple exclusive apps, you are less likely to switch to Android or WP7 or RIM) and none of which have Flash.

Could Apple have sold more if Flash was part of the equation? Maybe. But I think they are doing ok without it. As you and I have discussed before Senseamp, Flash is an integral part of your web enjoyment experience, I generally feel that it gets in the way.

Also, Jobs made a good point about the fact that Adobe has yet to deliver on Flash 10 on a handheld, especially in a version that works well and doesn't chew battery life. How important is Flash to you anyway? Important enough to actually require people to carry that second battery that they are always complaining about not being able to carry with the iPhone? Enough to have to stop midday, every day to recharge the phone because that you watched that 2 minute clip of that adorable puppy licking a lollipop?

 

[dguy6789]

All signs point to Android users getting Flash very soon, possibly in less than a month.

http://www.webkitchen.be/2010/04/19/flash-player-10-1-for-android-still-on-track-for-h1-release/

http://androidandme.com/2010/04/news/5-reasons-flash-10-1-will-debut-at-google-io/

http://androidandme.com/2010/04/new...ly-come-with-flash-10-1-in-its-frosty-center/

http://androidandme.com/2010/04/news/android-2-2-and-flash-10-1-coming-may-20/

 

[theeedude]

Until such time as Apple actually sees people going to other platforms, and knows that it is just because of Flash, they aren't going to do anything. They have sold 50 million iPhones and I think that many iPod Touches. That is 100 million devices, all of which use the App Store (meaning software lockin, if you have a bunch of Apple exclusive apps, you are less likely to switch to Android or WP7 or RIM) and none of which have Flash.

Could Apple have sold more if Flash was part of the equation? Maybe. But I think they are doing ok without it. As you and I have discussed before Senseamp, Flash is an integral part of your web enjoyment experience, I generally feel that it gets in the way.

I use Flash regularly on Youtube, Hulu online gaming, etc. You can always block Flash ads.
I don't see how Flash gets in the way of Youtube or Zynga games, for example. Seem to work fine. If I feel some Flash app gets in the way of my web experience, I can always block it individually, and get it out of the way. But if on an iPhone, lack of Flash gets in the way of my web experience when I WANT to use a Flash app, there is nothing I can do, because Apple took that decision out of my hands.

Also, Jobs made a good point about the fact that Adobe has yet to deliver on Flash 10 on a handheld, especially in a version that works well and doesn't chew battery life. How important is Flash to you anyway? Important enough to actually require people to carry that second battery that they are always complaining about not being able to carry with the iPhone? Enough to have to stop midday, every day to recharge the phone because that you watched that 2 minute clip of that adorable puppy licking a lollipop?

I agree that Flash 10.1 with hardware acceleration is key to this whole equation, Google and others are working to integrate Flash into their platforms, they can do battery life calculations just like Apple, and obviously they feel that it is something that Flash is on track to address, or they wouldn't be building it into their mobile platforms. Apple is not working to integrate it into their platform and they pissed Adobe off, so even if they were to change their mind at a later date, they are going to be behind the rest of the industry in Flash support. That is why I would not buy an Apple device.

 

[DivideBYZero]

OS X is based on BSD.

Which is UNIX.

"The BSD operating systems are not clones, but open source derivatives of AT&T's Research UNIX operating system"

 

[dwell]

All signs point to Android users getting Flash very soon, possibly in less than a month.

Beta maybe, but don't expect release any time soon.

 

[TheStu]

I use Flash regularly on Youtube, Hulu online gaming, etc. You can always block Flash ads.
I don't see how Flash gets in the way of Youtube or Zynga games, for example. Seem to work fine. If I feel some Flash app gets in the way of my web experience, I can always block it individually, and get it out of the way. But if on an iPhone, lack of Flash gets in the way of my web experience when I WANT to use a Flash app, there is nothing I can do, because Apple took that decision out of my hands.

I agree that Flash 10.1 with hardware acceleration is key to this whole equation, Google and others are working to integrate Flash into their platforms, they can do battery life calculations just like Apple, and obviously they feel that it is something that Flash is on track to address, or they wouldn't be building it into their mobile platforms. Apple is not working to integrate it into their platform and they pissed Adobe off, so even if they were to change their mind at a later date, they are going to be behind the rest of the industry in Flash support. That is why I would not buy an Apple device.

There is a rumor that Hulu is moving to a subscription service, possibly initially testing it as an App first. Hulu problem solved. Based on the flash games that I have played, I would reckon that 90%+ of them would need to be rebuilt to work on an all touch screen device such as the iPhone, Nexus One, Blackberry Storm, upcoming WP7 devices. Who cares if they get Flash access if they cannot properly use the stuff anyway?

This is all moot until such time as there actually is workable Flash on the Nexus One or Droid and we can actually see about the performance and usability.

 

[QueBert]

There is a rumor that Hulu is moving to a subscription service, possibly initially testing it as an App first. Hulu problem solved. Based on the flash games that I have played, I would reckon that 90%+ of them would need to be rebuilt to work on an all touch screen device such as the iPhone, Nexus One, Blackberry Storm, upcoming WP7 devices. Who cares if they get Flash access if they cannot properly use the stuff anyway?

This is all moot until such time as there actually is workable Flash on the Nexus One or Droid and we can actually see about the performance and usability.

It doesn't matter how piss poor it is, if can make a N1 crash 10 times a day and Android fanboys will scream and holler about how they got Flash and us poor souls with iPhones don't have it. I've said this before, but the honest to good truth *IF* hell froze over and Flash came to the iPhone there's no way in hell I'd install the upgrade. I've used Flash on a Nokia phone and it made me want to punch small children in the face.

 

[rudeguy]

It doesn't matter how piss poor it is, if can make a N1 crash 10 times a day and Android fanboys will scream and holler about how they got Flash and us poor souls with iPhones don't have it. I've said this before, but the honest to good truth *IF* hell froze over and Flash came to the iPhone there's no way in hell I'd install the upgrade. I've used Flash on a Nokia phone and it made me want to punch small children in the face.

I thought Apple decided which upgrades you got?

 

[TheStu]

I thought Apple decided which upgrades you got?

You can opt to not install updates. It will pester you, but it does not force you to upgrade. And with something like Flash, I would certainly hope that Apple would find a way to isolate it enough from the core OS so that it was a separate update.

 

[QueBert]

I thought Apple decided which upgrades you got?

Uh nope, my OSX is still 10.6.2 and if I wanted to I technically could still be running OS1 on my iPhone & Touch. Apple has never forced anyone to update any of their Apple products. And if hell freezes over and Adobe makes Flash for the iPhone, whatever the previous OS version is will be the last one I ever install.

 

[her209]

Flash support will be touted as an iPhone OS feature on a future revision. Of course, it won't be backwards compatible and users will be required to upgrade their hardware.

 

[QueBert]

Flash support will be touted as an iPhone OS feature on a future revision. Of course, it won't be backwards compatible and users will be required to upgrade their hardware.

Yeah, because I've had to upgrade my 1G iPhone I bought almost 4 years ago multiple times. Oh wait, no I haven't. I've gotten every single upgrade Apple has offered without having to get a new device. I can't say the same for any other phone I've owned for 4 years though.


*sigh*

 

[ChAoTiCpInOy]

Flash support will be touted as an iPhone OS feature on a future revision. Of course, it won't be backwards compatible and users will be required to upgrade their hardware.

That will never happen. Apple will not support Flash on iPhone OS. They have too much invested already in HTML5.

 

[rudeguy]

So how does the iPhone crowd feel about skyfire? I can now watch flash videos on my Android phone.

Do you think Steve will actually let that fly on the iPhone?

 

[TheWart]

I would venture that most iPhone users won't care. If they truly felt that strongly about it then they would have gotten a phone that can run flash. What it seems to me is that a lot of posters here refuse to believe that a lot of people just don't care that they cannot run flash. As long as their needs are taken care of through some other method, it doesn't matter.

 

[theeedude]

I would venture that most iPhone users won't care. If they truly felt that strongly about it then they would have gotten a phone that can run flash. What it seems to me is that a lot of posters here refuse to believe that a lot of people just don't care that they cannot run flash. As long as their needs are taken care of through some other method, it doesn't matter.

Well, duh, of course most iPhone users won't care, the people who do will get another device and won't be iPhone users

 

[zerocool84]

So how does the iPhone crowd feel about skyfire? I can now watch flash videos on my Android phone.

Do you think Steve will actually let that fly on the iPhone?

I downloaded it today as well. It's great to be able to watch stuff and visit sites right in the same browser. It runs fine on my Samsung Moment. The only reason Apple supporters bash Flash is cus Jobs tells them to and they must do what their Emperor says. They said that fm radio was old tech and Apple would never put old tech in any of their devices. They said they didn't need multi-tasking. They said cut & paste wasn't needed on a phone cus it couldn't do it correctly. iPhone users will never care about Flash cus Emperor Jobs says it to be.

 

[Narmer]

Adobe shouldn't have treated them like shit during the transition to OS X, imho. Payback's a bitch...

 

[pm]

I thought Apple decided which upgrades you got?

You can opt to not install updates. It will pester you, but it does not force you to upgrade.

On both the iPhone and OSX you can even disable the pestering. I'm still on iPhone 3.1.2 (because you can unlock it and I'll be in Europe this summer) - and I don't get reminders. You can disable update checking in iTunes under Preferences, and on the iPhone Info tab.

 

[rudeguy]

Adobe shouldn't have treated them like shit during the transition to OS X, imho. Payback's a bitch...

I'm actually agreeing with Steve. Fuck Adobe. Hopefully Google and MS tell them to get lost too.

 

[Narmer]

I'm actually agreeing with Steve. Fuck Adobe. Hopefully Google and MS tell them to get lost too.

I also think they've gotten too damn comfortable. People have been complaining for years about flash being coded poorly and adobe did nothing. Their laziness breeded competition and resentment.

 

[TwinsenTacquito]

I don't understand your point.

If Flash is so indispensable, then Apple will take a sales and market-share hit, and be forced to change their stance.

If I know Apple, they have already plotted the scenarios, and I think in the long view, they'll win. Did you install a floppy drive in your last desktop build? Do you have a floppy drive in your laptop?

It's not rocket surgery...

I think Steve Jobs can just say something a couple times, put a few hundred million dollars into advertising that says it over and over with nice white plastic around it, and shit will sell.

Who wants to buy a $2,000 motherboard? How about if it comes with a $50 LCD?

 

[TheWart]

I think Steve Jobs can just say something a couple times, put a few hundred million dollars into advertising that says it over and over with nice white plastic around it, and shit will sell.

Who wants to buy a $2,000 motherboard? How about if it comes with a $50 LCD?

Yea because only idiots buy Apple products...

Sales numbers dont mean a thing in terms of indicating how good the product is...unless it is an Android phone of course then people are buying it only cause it is awesome and the best thing ever.

I would love to see a $499 tablet device that truly competes with the ipad? You should be able to find one for $199 for me given the apple markup you claim.

 

[zerocool84]

Yea because only idiots buy Apple products...

Sales numbers dont mean a thing in terms of indicating how good the product is...unless it is an Android phone of course then people are buying it only cause it is awesome and the best thing ever.

I would love to see a $499 tablet device that truly competes with the ipad? You should be able to find one for $199 for me given the apple markup you claim.

There's not cus cheaper ones can do more than one thing at a time so it's not comparable so there isn't any competition cus nobody in their right mind would gimp devices like Apple does.