Steam: Invasive crap software

[obidamnkenobi]

Yesterday, Steam decided to no longer start, which also meant Skyrim and other games would not start. When clicking Steam, nothing happened. I tried several things, but nothing helped. The log file just read " ReconnectThread (####) Starting", no error messages or anything.

I was eventually forced to uninstall and re-install the client. Then I had to re-download every single game....
At least it's downloading at around 9MB/s now, vs just 300KB/s when I downloaded Skyrim at launch. They must have upgraded their servers.

FYI: for god's sake copy all your games somewhere before you uninstall Steam! Saves you a few hours, or days of downloading them.

 

[Nebor]

Why is a software product of this nature so precious?
I don't have these type of ownership issues with cars, books, DVD players etc, I can buy and sell quite freely.
You seem to think that because it's a law, that's it's moral and/or reasonable.

Because you're licensing the use of it. No different than buying a ticket to see a movie, or to ride a roller coaster. You CAN purchase it to own, but the cost is significantly higher.

 

[ImpulsE69]

The book analogy is wrong. If someone borrows or sells a book, the publishers/writer loses a sale as well.

Steam and the like are doing what makers of "licensed" material have been trying to do for years. Total control of their product and removing any instances of accountability. Another words, buyer beware, once you paid for it, it's yours regardless if 100% of purchasers agree that it is total trash. In some aspects this has been around forever, but for digital downloads it almost completes the cycle.

I buy much less than I used to for that simple reason. If I'm not willing to take the hit on the price for the no option to return? No buy.

I do not agree that a car, or any other "tangible" item is different. That is all legal BS cooked up by lawyers. At one time maybe it was useful, but now it is almost drakonian and overstated. Hell even a meal can normally be refunded if you hate it. The true difference is shown the further we move to complete digital "intangibleness" (sorry lack of better word) the less rights the consumer has and the more power the companies have. Speaking with your wallet is the only real way, but I think it's been proven time and again, someone is making money even on the worst items and that really only works for the "next product released by said company". The first time, you have no protection.

 

[Anteaus]

The book analogy is wrong. If someone borrows or sells a book, the publishers/writer loses a sale as well.

Steam and the like are doing what makers of "licensed" material have been trying to do for years. Total control of their product and removing any instances of accountability. Another words, buyer beware, once you paid for it, it's yours regardless if 100% of purchasers agree that it is total trash. In some aspects this has been around forever, but for digital downloads it almost completes the cycle.

I buy much less than I used to for that simple reason. If I'm not willing to take the hit on the price for the no option to return? No buy.

I do not agree that a car, or any other "tangible" item is different. That is all legal BS cooked up by lawyers. At one time maybe it was useful, but now it is almost drakonian and overstated. Hell even a meal can normally be refunded if you hate it. The true difference is shown the further we move to complete digital "intangibleness" (sorry lack of better word) the less rights the consumer has and the more power the companies have. Speaking with your wallet is the only real way, but I think it's been proven time and again, someone is making money even on the worst items and that really only works for the "next product released by said company". The first time, you have no protection.

Fortunately and unfortunately what we "think" as right and wrong have no relevance here. People think if they try and come up with a reasonable response with what they think the law "should" be it somehow reduces he premise of the law. The bottom line is copyright law is rather explicit in how it treats this topic. You might think its wrong wrong to do this on some sort of philosophical or moral level, but it matters not. It is what it is. All I can say is that if people disagree with the way software licensing is done, they should just bow out and not buy any unless it's you consider it essential, like buying a phone or running an OS. Gaming is completely optional, and there is no reason to keep buying games if you don't like how they are licensed. Plenty of places to buy cheap books that will give a 10X greater value for your money.

 

[Pacman4]

I noticed no-one answered why a DVD can be sold, but not some games?

 

[Pacman4]

. People think if they try and come up with a reasonable response with what they think the law "should" be it somehow reduces he premise of the law.

IOW, the premise of the law is designed to rip off the consumer.....k, understood.

 

[Anteaus]

I noticed no-one answered why a DVD can be sold, but not some games?

I explained this in a earlier post

 

[Via]

Were you ranting like the OP was? If so, then of course you're going to get "pilloried".

If you had calmly and sensibly asked how to get into offline mode, then I highly doubt anyone would berate you or defend steam for not knowing.

That's not how the steam defense force works here.

Hey - I don't mind steam at all; I really like it. But it's not perfect, and I would never buy a full price game on steam.

Ever.

 

[Pacman4]

I explained this in a earlier post

You spoke some convenient BS about the media it was on, but the truth is, producer and consumer have been living happily ever after on virtually all other goods, but not games or controllable e-commerce.

The truth is, the only reason these greed based EULA exist is because corporate pigs lobbied for them, not because, "the basic fucking premise is what it is"....LOL, only a lawyer could dare try and exclude reason and ethics from the creation of justifiable laws.

For some people, rich isn't good enough.

Anyway, whether you believe it or not, I'd much rather pay more for HQ games and want to keep them beyond any meaningful resale, but when we see examples like DNF, RAGE and plenty of other console turds, paying more is the last thing on my mind.

 

[Sentrosi2121]

I'll just put my opinion on this thread right over here....

 

[Schfifty Five]

That's not how the steam defense force works here.

Hey - I don't mind steam at all; I really like it. But it's not perfect, and I would never buy a full price game on steam.

Ever.

You're telling me that if I were to create a thread and politely and calmly ask how to use offline mode, I would get reamed by the "steam defense force" here on atot?

No, sorry that's not how it works.

It's people like the OP who come in here, spouting BS, whining, and ranting like a non-sensible moron, while getting upset with anyone who disagrees with him, who deserve getting the "defense force" on their case.

So if you received the same treatment, I was just wondering if you too had created a rant thread like the OP.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Fortunately and unfortunately what we "think" as right and wrong have no relevance here. People think if they try and come up with a reasonable response with what they think the law "should" be it somehow reduces he premise of the law. The bottom line is copyright law is rather explicit in how it treats this topic. You might think its wrong wrong to do this on some sort of philosophical or moral level, but it matters not. It is what it is. All I can say is that if people disagree with the way software licensing is done, they should just bow out and not buy any unless it's you consider it essential, like buying a phone or running an OS. Gaming is completely optional, and there is no reason to keep buying games if you don't like how they are licensed. Plenty of places to buy cheap books that will give a 10X greater value for your money.

I'm no expert on the subject, but this was to prevent the reproduction and "resale" and profit off of said item. I think it's been twisted over time. Laws can be changed, but I don't think the average consumer could try to fight it. Law isn't really "we the people" these days. I'm not arguing what the law is or isn't. There are times in history though where law was broken because it was thought to be wrong, regardless of it being law,and eventually that law changed.

 

[Throckmorton]

Rage? Perhaps.

However, I can always count on certain snide folks here to blow it off as 'normal' that we have to allow games to phone home and inconvenience our play in fairly major ways rather than telling these companies what they think.

I'm quite aware of offline mode. I had it in offline mode, until I had to download the patch. Which is when everything went to hell (again).

Of course, offline doesn't fix the initial problems of not being able to play a game I purchased...

Each experience like this drives people to pirate. Yes, I'm aware that many people do it anyway, but I'm not one of them. But damn if it doesn't become more tempting each time I have to deal with some bullshit jump-through-hoops crap like this just to play a game I purchased.

"Offline mode" indeed... lol.

How are you going to pirate with 56K?

 

[Nebor]

That's not how the steam defense force works here.

Hey - I don't mind steam at all; I really like it. But it's not perfect, and I would never buy a full price game on steam.

Ever.

I will and have paid more to get a game on Steam as opposed to buying it elsewhere.

 

[KMFJD]

I will and have paid more to get a game on Steam as opposed to buying it elsewhere.

 

[astrosfan315]

Wait until the Xmas steam sales...then we'll see how much griping the OP has about Steam when he'll be able to buy 100 programs for the price of his retail Skyrim copy. I love the steam sales!

 

[videogames101]

Fortunately and unfortunately what we "think" as right and wrong have no relevance here. People think if they try and come up with a reasonable response with what they think the law "should" be it somehow reduces he premise of the law. The bottom line is copyright law is rather explicit in how it treats this topic. You might think its wrong wrong to do this on some sort of philosophical or moral level, but it matters not. It is what it is. All I can say is that if people disagree with the way software licensing is done, they should just bow out and not buy any unless it's you consider it essential, like buying a phone or running an OS. Gaming is completely optional, and there is no reason to keep buying games if you don't like how they are licensed. Plenty of places to buy cheap books that will give a 10X greater value for your money.

Actually that isn't right. We aren't debating whether copyright infringement is illegal, and if you think anyone is making that claim you've missed the point.

What we are debating is quite precisely the morality of pirating a game when you are fully aware that you are performing an illegal action, yet carry it out anyways. Very specifically, pirating is popular because it's almost impossible to be caught and successfully prosecuted for it.

You really have to understand that some people seriously believe that breaking copyright law is morally acceptable, and that is where you should direct your arguments. If I may repeat, nobody here is debating the legality of piracy, we all know it is illegal. I understand that you think it's wrong, but quite a few people have a differing viewpoint, and think that breaking laws which they disagree with, especially without repercussion, is a morally acceptable action. Thoughts?

 

[Pulsar]

You're telling me that if I were to create a thread and politely and calmly ask how to use offline mode, I would get reamed by the "steam defense force" here on atot?

No, sorry that's not how it works.

It's people like the OP who come in here, spouting BS, whining, and ranting like a non-sensible moron, while getting upset with anyone who disagrees with him, who deserve getting the "defense force" on their case.

So if you received the same treatment, I was just wondering if you too had created a rant thread like the OP.

1. Everything I posted was factual.

2. I didn't get 'upset' with people who disagree. It's an internet forum, and you know what they say about opinions.

3. The problem is the number of people who are willing to close their eyes and ignore the problems. I'm happy Steam fills a nitch as a digital distribution source. That's great. It's also fairly buggy, is invasive (monitoring and ads), has connection issues, and does some annoying things.

The real problem here, as a number of others have pointed out, is people like you who start name calling and can't be bothered to see both sides of the same coin.

 

[Nebor]

LOL @ people calling Steam invasive when it just started remembering your birthday a couple weeks ago.

Steam is the best thing that ever happened to PC gaming, and is the only reason it's still as popular as it is today.

 

[frozentundra123456]

My feeling about steam is that there are pluses and minuses like most everything in life. I do get frustrated with some on these forums who defend steam so vociferously and refuse to acknowledge that it can have problems. I like their sales, obviously, but I resent having to register retail purchased games on Steam. And yes, dont flame me, I know that it is also the publisher's decision, but steam is a party to it too.

Like for Pulsar. You may or may not like the tone of his post. That is one thing. But I cannot believe those who refused to acknowledge that there can be connection issues with steam unless you have a bad internet, and it can cause a lot of problems if you have not set up offline mode properly ahead of time (like you are supposed to know when you will have connection issues.) I know because I have DSL internet and could not connect to steam for days and could never figure out why.

 

[Gothgar]

its good to see a new refreshing thread on here, that is about a subject that hasn't been brought up countless times before.

 

[Elixer]

I think the positives of Steam eclipse any minor negatives that come along with it.

One on-line library for all your games.. AWESOME!!
Not having to store boxes and CDs and sh1t in your house... AWESOME!!!
Not having to worry about losing boxes and CDs and stuff... AWESOME!!
Not having to worry about patching your games... AWESOME!!
The insane deals you get because of unlimited inventory... AWESOME!!

Seriously, it's pretty bad ass.

Not being able to play games you "bought", since you can't get into offline mode because it requires you to be online... NOT AWESOME!!

Pirates who didn't buy a damn thing, yet they can play the game any time they want... NOT AWESOME!!

Steam going bust, and now, all those games you "bought" are worthless... NOT AWESOME!!

Someone hijacks your account, and now you lost all your games that you "bought" while steam looks into this... NOT AWESOME!!

Reinstalling a game that steam backed up for you, and not being able to play it, even if you are in offline mode... NOT AWESOME!!

You got on steam's bad side and posted something you shouldn't have in the forums, and now you and all your games are banned and you end up with nadda... NOT AWESOME!!

Face it, steam is a glorified rental service, true, it does have advantages, and most of the time it does work well, but at times when you don't have a reliable ISP, or something happens to your account, or piss off steam in another way, then you can never play the software you rented--even though, most people think they just bought it.

Then of course, we got steam DRM on top of more DRM on top of yet even more DRM that some publishers do, which is really fun, especially if each of those requires you to be online at some point. If steam wanted to, they could stop this, but they don't really care, since they just blame the publisher.

Direct2Drive, Steam, Origin, Ubisoft all treat paying customers like they were criminals, and if any other provider of a service did the same to you, you can bet people would be in the streets yelling at how they are being treated. However, with software, it is OK, since everyone is a pirate, right ?

 

[Nebor]

However, with software, it is OK, since everyone is a pirate, right ?

Mainly just people who dislike DRM. Those of us that are legit wouldn't mind registered hardware that will only run legit, registered games. Also a hardware DRM system might have fewer problems, along with being far more difficult to circumvent.

 

[Northern Lawn]

Steam going bust, and now, all those games you "bought" are worthless... NOT AWESOME!!

That's the only thing that worries me, but I rarely think about it. I don't have a single hard copy of a game anymore.

 

[rchiu]

My feeling about steam is that there are pluses and minuses like most everything in life. I do get frustrated with some on these forums who defend steam so vociferously and refuse to acknowledge that it can have problems. I like their sales, obviously, but I resent having to register retail purchased games on Steam. And yes, dont flame me, I know that it is also the publisher's decision, but steam is a party to it too.

Like for Pulsar. You may or may not like the tone of his post. That is one thing. But I cannot believe those who refused to acknowledge that there can be connection issues with steam unless you have a bad internet, and it can cause a lot of problems if you have not set up offline mode properly ahead of time (like you are supposed to know when you will have connection issues.) I know because I have DSL internet and could not connect to steam for days and could never figure out why.

Not that people refuse to acknowledge there can be connection issue, what people are telling you is that there are work around that works with majority of people.

Why do you set up offline mode only when you have connection issue? I pretty much setup up offline mode permanently until I want to download games/update. Once I am done with new game download/update, I immediately switch back to offline mode. I have been in offline mode in probably over a month already. No issue, no request to relogin/reconnect. Works perfectly for me with fairly unstable Internet connection.

The thing is, there are bunch of people complain about this and that but never bother to read instruction on how things work or think about/read around the forum on how things can work better for them. They rather yap yap and yap instead of just find a solution and enjoy the game.