STD injected into the unsuspected

[dawp]

ARE is the key word.

this was done 70 years ago.

Happening now is a different story.


remember we put the Japanese Americans in internment camps?


remember we used to have african slaves?


We learn from mistakes. criticizing what we did 70 years ago and comparing it to things happening today is just stupid and brings up unnecessary, illogical, and incomparable debates

How can you so sure it isn't happening now? With our track record, I would not be surprised if something similar was going on in a remote part of the world. Or in one of the war zones.

 

[JSt0rm]

Yeah I'm sure we are doing some evil shit.

 

[Freshgeardude]

How can you so sure it isn't happening now? With our track record, I would not be surprised if something similar was going on in a remote part of the world. Or in one of the war zones.

what part about "we" isnt clear.


WE arent doing it.

we are more developed than other parts of the world.

we have regulations to make sure things like this dont happen.

similarly how we dont blindly transfuse blood. it must be test, etc.

and new needles for each donation

 

[dawp]

what part about "we" isnt clear.


WE arent doing it.

we are more developed than other parts of the world.

we have regulations to make sure things like this dont happen.

similarly how we dont blindly transfuse blood. it must be test, etc.

and new needles for each donation

I still would not put it past our government if they felt it was in our best interest. With so many secrets they keep I would never say never. You can not guarantee that it isn't happening now.

we've been lied to before and they will do it again.

 

[Binarycow]

what part about "we" isnt clear.


WE arent doing it.

we are more developed than other parts of the world.

we have regulations to make sure things like this dont happen.

similarly how we dont blindly transfuse blood. it must be test, etc.

and new needles for each donation

It was done deliberately so I don't know why you mentioned the steps above. BTW, the constitution is not spared in many instances in the contemporary time so regular regulations probably don't mean jack to some people.

 

[Freshgeardude]

I still would not put it past our government if they felt it was in our best interest. With so many secrets they keep I would never say never. You can not guarantee that it isn't happening now.

true, but you have to instill some trust in these organizations that regulate and enforce the laws meant to protect us from STDs and such.


Besides, in the US, everything is about "who can I sue," so who actually wants to be sued.

usually now there are contracts for these things.

Also, we do tests on rats and other animals instead of humans, probably more commonly than in the past, where medicine wasnt as advanced as it is today

 

[OCGuy]

LOL. Unit 731 laughs at this.

 

[dawp]

true, but you have to instill some trust in these organizations that regulate and enforce the laws meant to protect us from STDs and such.


Besides, in the US, everything is about "who can I sue," so who actually wants to be sued.

usually now there are contracts for these things.

Also, we do tests on rats and other animals instead of humans, probably more commonly than in the past, where medicine wasnt as advanced as it is today

I would not trust our government. At all. how often is one agency blind to what is happening in another, and in ones that are supose to be working together.

 

[Binarycow]

LOL. Unit 731 laughs at this.

I don't consider the people who involved in running and working in Unit 731 humans or even sub-humans. They were monsters, pure and simple. I generally also do not have a very high opinion of japanese who lived in that era considering all the monstrous acts committed by them across asia.

 

[Craig234]

The good news is, things have gotten a lot better in terms of what the US, and most countries, do.

We've had huge progress in the world - things were pretty barbaric in a lot of ways.

It's hard for people to appreciate that people weren't barbarians - things didn't 'seem wrong'.

Remember, lynchings of blacks could be 'public events' families brought children to for an afternoon entertainment. It wasn't all just hooded guys in the night.

Japan had an ideology that what its nice civilized people did overseas was like Vegas, it 'stayed there' and somehow 'didn't count', and they did monstrous things.

We have made so much progress, where the norms of dictatorial arrangements, routine kidnapping torture and murder of 'leftist' labor leaders and schoolteachers is no longer acceptable, where there is some more questioning of the use of the military - not enough, but more - for whatever powers want.

The names of the monsters are no longer nearly as much on the US goverment's ally list - the Somozas, Marcoses, Diems, Batistas, Apartheid regimes, and many more.

Now the monster list is smaller, their crimes less, often not with our support - though we still have many bad situations.

There are still massive crimes - a massacre in Africa can go on for years with hundreds of thousand killed and get little notice here - but a lot is better.

We seem to have higher standards now, and that's great.

However, I don't think many people - especially many on the right - really have any understanding of the history, any growth to keep us from going back to the problems. I think they're like goldfish - while the problems aren't happening, they'll say how great we are that they aren't, but if the new atrocities were committed and they were given a cover story about it being 'good for America' or 'against bad guys', they would defend it against the bad liberals who protest.

Too many lack the real convictions needed to stand up against it IMO. There isn't the interest, the learning of history.

I doubt we'll find we're doing anything like this story today, luckily our current culture doesn't tolerate it much.

But I don't think we're much protected against other wrongs - we have not only a resurgence of the John Birch Society and a renouncing of all kinds of societal progress and a flashy new 'movement' quietly dedicated to rolling back Social Security and Medicare and other programs a century, but a new monster ideology for unprecedented concentration of wealth has made great progress in our society that earlier America would have been horrified by, as they came to be earlier.

America has a long history of progress, where there are big problems, but the nation works to make things better, and today's culture is one of stagnation and acceptance filled with arguments why not to fix things, why injustice and inequality and poverty and much more should have less, not more, done.

We don't often appreciate a lot of the progress we've had. A century ago, elder poverty was 90%, now it's 10%. Healthcare was minimal, now it's much better. Workers were often little better treated than farm animals, now there are many more protections.

What we do have now is a public propagandized like never before. We have more information available than ever before, but it competes with the marketing machine.

We have a real problem with ignorance and misinformation that can get a lot worse.

In WWII, over 50 million people were killed. In the years after, the world faced massive nuclear holocaust only a misstep from happening.

We need people to appreciate the progress and oppose the demagogues who would go back for selfish agendas of a few.

Be glad there are fewer wrongs, but recognize how there are still some - which are not abhorred but cheered by too many - and the risks of more.

Save234

 

[Craig234]

I would not trust our government. At all. how often is one agency blind to what is happening in another, and in ones that are supose to be working together.

Any power has risk or abuse, but power subject to democracy is more likely to have more constraint than unelected power.

The least of your concerns are agencies not talking to each other - efficiency is only as good as the activities being done.

Are agencies serving the rich and powerful who communicate with each other ok?

 

[dawp]

Any power has risk or abuse, but power subject to democracy is more likely to have more constraint than unelected power.

The least of your concerns are agencies not talking to each other - efficiency is only as good as the activities being done.

Are agencies serving the rich and powerful who communicate with each other ok?

Our government like to have secrets, even when they are unwarranted. And that is a big problem.

 

[Craig234]

Our government like to have secrets, even when they are unwarranted. And that is a big problem.

I agree to an extent, but what secrets are you concerned about?

I'm less concerned about secrets than about the visible results of the wealthy agenda.

It's no secret that there has been a historic massive transfer of wealth since Reagan to the top among other reasons, which is a bigger concern than secrets seem to be.

 

[dawp]

I agree to an extent, but what secrets are you concerned about?

I'm less concerned about secrets than about the visible results of the wealthy agenda.

It's no secret that there has been a historic massive transfer of wealth since Reagan to the top among other reasons, which is a bigger concern than secrets seem to be.

stuff like the chenney energy commision, invoking state secret whenever it get sued, backroom dealings that only lobbyist are privy to so that can get what they want, which include a lot of stuff that enables the transfer of wealth that you are worried about. We need a more open government.

if they aren't willing to have meetings infront of a camera, then they they should not make laws that only the privilged few will benefit from.

 

[Craig234]

stuff like the chenney energy commision, invoking state secret whenever it get sued, backroom dealings that only lobbyist are privy to so that can get what they want, which include a lot of stuff that enables the transfer of wealth that you are worried about. We need a more open government.

There are limits, though, on how 'open' will address the issues; you aren't going to have alliances between power and politicians exposed a lot. That's where you need other things like taking money out of its powerful place in the elections - if rich guy's dollars aren't the most important thing for the candidate, then the candidate can run (as most want to) without the alliance to rich guy. But I agree with the benefit or more openness.

That's a reason I was displeased with George W. gutting the Freedom of Information Act.

 

[Modelworks]

Nothing surprises me when it comes to medical testing.

I know of an incident whre the military did testing on new recruits without permission from the recruits, many got sick from it and to this day it has never been made public and I can't discuss it even though I have been out of the military for 15+ years. What needs to happen is to make it possible for people that know about this stuff to be able to talk about it. Many will not, myself included, because of the amount of threats put against them when these test occur.

When people threaten you with things like "some things are best forgotten, as long as you remember that there is no reason you cannot live a long life."
" People who make waves often drown."
"its good to have help when you are wounded and not just left to bleed and die"

None of it directly implies harm, but I think everyone gets the point.

 

[hal2kilo]

ARE is the key word.

this was done 70 years ago.

Happening now is a different story.


remember we put the Japanese Americans in internment camps?


remember we used to have african slaves?


We learn from mistakes. criticizing what we did 70 years ago and comparing it to things happening today is just stupid and brings up unnecessary, illogical, and incomparable debates

“Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it.” - Winston Churchill

 

[Craig234]

“Those that fail to learn from history, are doomed to repeat it.” - Winston Churchill

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
George Santayana

 

[Darwin333]

Any power has risk or abuse, but power subject to democracy is more likely to have more constraint than unelected power.

I disagree. As Moonie posted, the CIA has been doing some fucked up shit for quite a while. Who is to say that they aren't still doing it? Perhaps they just got better at hiding it... Throughout the entire history of the CIA they have been an agency of one of the largest democracy this world has ever seen. It sure didn't seem to stop them then, quite frankly it is probably exactly opposite. IMO, democracy is the largest reason this country has flourished the way it has so one could argue that without the democracy this country wouldn't have had the money or the resources to fund the fucked up things agencies like the CIA did.

Of course that is just for our particular case. Plenty of examples of places that weren't democracies doing similar things.

The least of your concerns are agencies not talking to each other - efficiency is only as good as the activities being done.

Again, I disagree. Agencies talking to each other puts more people in the "loop". The more people in the loop the harder it is to do fucked up shit in secret. Not that it would be impossible with increased communication between agencies but the best way to keep a secret is still to ensure that as few people know about it as possible.

Are agencies serving the rich and powerful who communicate with each other ok?

Depends but, at least in practice, generally no.

 

[hal2kilo]

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
George Santayana

I was surprised when I searched for the quote and that it was as recent as Winston Churchill. I see he paraphrased Santayana from the 19th century.

 

[Darwin333]

I agree to an extent, but what secrets are you concerned about?

If some random guy on some random Inet forum could answer that question they wouldn't be very good "secrets" now would they?

I'm less concerned about secrets than about the visible results of the wealthy agenda.

It's no secret that there has been a historic massive transfer of wealth since Reagan to the top among other reasons, which is a bigger concern than secrets seem to be.

Go read Moonies post about all the shit the CIA has done, those were almost all secrets at the time. We usually don't do fucked up shit like that out in the open.

As far as money being concentrated to the top, that is an entirely different subject for another thread but I will give you a hint, it has far less to do with "taxes" than you think.

 

[swerus]

If a peaceful alien race were to secretly watch how we treat each other before making contact there is no way in hell they ever would. Horrible the things we do to each other.

 

[drebo]

This all seems like a lot of outrage over something that may be blown out of proportions.

The article doesn't say whether or not the Guatemalans volunteered for this study, nor does it say what the results were. In re: to the mental health patients who "can not give consent, do not know what is going on", there are varying degrees of mental health issues, some of which leave the person completely rational.

We don't need 18 different committees to convene in order to determine whether a 60 year old study was unethical. The study has already been completed, and we already know that there are safeguards in place to prevent similarly conducted studies in present day. Why waste time "investigating" something about which nothing can be done? Read the study and if the findings were useful, use them...other wise, forget it as fruitless.

The drive for sensationalism by this administration is revolting. Obama needs to get off his knees and actually fucking do something, for a change.

 

[Cogman]

It was more than just injecting them with STDs. They were hiring prostitutes with syphilis to sleep with the inmates. They tried to scratch off pieces of skin and infecting through that way.

It is was NOT done on volunteers, it was done on inmates.

The drive for sensationalism by this administration is revolting. Obama needs to get off his knees and actually fucking do something, for a change.

Sorry, while I'm assuming this article is lacking, the what actually happened is pretty dang sickening. (I heard the whole story on the radio).

 

[Scotteq]

LOL. Unit 731 laughs at this.

That they do... That they do...

****


The sick, twisted, and highly sarcastic side of me wanted to comment these experiments were the preliminary research which eventually led to the creation of the HIV virus; which the NeoCons controlling the Republican Party released into the Ghettos and Gay communities with the intention of wiping out all the F***, and N*****, and S****, and C****, A***, and anyone else who isn't Eugenically Pure and Religiously Righteous.


...but I came to the conclusion there are people here who would believe it. D:


Then it wasn't funny any more.