State department: Hillary did not comply with policies

[Phoenix86]

I find that he's in your mouth disturbing.

You know how you take bite of gristle and didn't want to? It's like that.

 

[Phoenix86]

I read somewhere today that Bernie doesn't drop out until the FBI does. Hell, even the mainstream media, whom I always felt was in the tank for Hillary, is now reporting on the IG report, when they did little reporting on her emails in the past.

It's actually a major shift in reporting... Everyone but CNN, who technically reported it, but kind of buried it is talking about it like it's a big deal. Unlike months ago when it was already a big deal.

While I'll admit she could skate away from this, I don't think it's likely and haven't for a long time.

At a bare minimum she had access to high level government documents as a private citizen. FULL STOP. That right there is huge.

 

[werepossum]

Some very interesting points raised in the WaPo article from March. https://www.washingtonpost.com/inve...301168-e162-11e5-846c-10191d1fc4ec_story.html

First, I was simply wrong about Powell. By far the bulk of his official business was conducted not on his private email account, but over his secure State Department account. I did not know that.

Albright and Rice said they did not use email while at State. Powell, secretary of state from 2001 to 2005, had a private email account through America Online but did not retain copies of his emails. The inspector general for the State Department found that Powell’s personal email account had received two emails from staff that contained “national security information classified at the Secret or Confidential levels.”

Clinton lawyer David Kendall later told the State Department that her “use of personal email was consistent with the practices of other Secretaries of State,” citing Powell in particular, according to a letter he wrote in August.

But Powell’s circumstances also differed from Clinton’s in notable ways. Powell had a phone line installed in his office solely to link to his private account, which he generally used for personal or non-classified communication. At the time, he was pushing the department to embrace the Internet era and wanted to set an example.

“I performed a little test whenever I visited an embassy: I’d dive into the first open office I could find (sometimes it was the ambassador’s office). If the computer was on, I’d try to get into my private email account,” Powell wrote in “It Worked for Me: In Life and Leadership.” “If I could, they passed.”

Powell conducted virtually all of his classified communications on paper or over a State Department computer installed on his desk that was reserved for classified information, according to interviews. Clinton never had such a desktop or a classified email account, according to the State Department.

On Dec. 5, 2014, Clinton lawyers delivered 12 file boxes filled with printed paper containing more than 30,000 emails. Clinton withheld almost 32,000 emails deemed to be of a personal nature.

So Clinton's activities and Powell's activities were not nearly as similar as I had believed.

Something else that seems inexplicable to me: State and NSA security and intelligence experts were worried about Clinton's BlackBerry precisely because government officials' BlackBerries had recently been compromised. This was a big issue to them. Yet none of them knew that Mrs. Clinton used a server in the basement of her residence, let alone that she used it exclusively. The explanation given is that they "weren't told" about it. Given that these are security and intelligence experts who were specifically worried about Clinton's BlackBerry being compromised, this seems to me to be an amazing oversight. If you are worried about a BlackBerry used for very high level sensitive government business being compromised, surely your investigation would run deep enough to notice to and from where it was sending and receiving data without being told. (I'm assuming here that Mrs. Clinton did not decline to give them access to it, as she has declined so many other investigations.) It doesn't exactly fill me with confidence about our government's competency to know that the highest level of security and intelligence experts don't even notice that the SecState is exclusively using a server which doesn't even have encryption and only has sporadic maintenance from a moonlighting State employee who himself doesn't even have high level security clearance, even though they were meeting with her staff because they were concerned about her BlackBerry being compromised.

 

[trenchfoot]

Repubs in Congress must be trying very very hard to make a connection between Hillary's email security lapses and what happened at Benghazi.

 

[trenchfoot]

Mo' debinitely not an honest mistake, she sent out multiple emails warning all her "underlings" (to use Jhhnn's term) not to ever do the exact same thing she was always doing.


Hillary's breach is by far the most egregious and blatant, but they violated the exact same laws and regulations. Plus, Hillary only held back or edited out things she found politically damaging or threatening; Powell turned in nothing. I do not see how Hillary could be indicted without Powell being indicted. For that matter, the Bush White House got caught doing also using private email (the RNC's IIRC) to discuss official business, including (someone correct me if I'm wrong) classified info.

I have zero problem if the FBI wants to indict the lot of them, but I do not like the idea of Hillary alone being indicted.


Drag Hillary down into the gutters? Hillary could only be dragged up into the gutters from when she preferentially resides, in the comforting and ever-so-useful darkness of the sewers.

In so many ways I have to agree. That being said, the Repubs in Congress have been incessantly dragging her through the mud and coming up empty handed every single time. In this sense, they have been taking her down into the gutters with them yet she popped up out of there sparkling clean, save for the negative imagery of her that the Repub base is left with.

Hillary lives in the gutters. She didn't need to be dragged down into them. Somebody just needed to have the balls to point out she is gutter trash.

Sorry, but you guys picked the wrong horse. It is old, tired, and corrupt as fuck.

As with Werepossum, there's some of what I have to agree with you on.

As for the horse I hitched up to, it's the 'ol reliable one named Sanders, BUT, there's not a single synaptic twitch in my brain that I can recall that would cause me to choose Trump over any Dem that's running simply because there isn't a single piece of legislation that I can think of where the Repubs in Congress specifically wrote and submitted that exclusively benefited the middle class and the poor at the expense of the very wealthy. Rather, it's always been the other way around.

 

[werepossum]

It's actually a major shift in reporting... Everyone but CNN, who technically reported it, but kind of buried it is talking about it like it's a big deal. Unlike months ago when it was already a big deal.

While I'll admit she could skate away from this, I don't think it's likely and haven't for a long time.

At a bare minimum she had access to high level government documents as a private citizen. FULL STOP. That right there is huge.

I dunno. It's not like a SecState forgets all this stuff when she resigns.

Also, let's not forget that Sandy Berger skated after admitting not only stealing but destroying unique classified documents, under the Bush administration's investigation, and Hillary is being investigated by a very friendly Obama administration. One can't help but suspect that classification is 90% just to keep the rubes from knowing what the ruling class are up to.

The Colin Powell plank in my "Hillary skates" justification has collapsed, but there's still the Bush White House. lol

 

[compuwiz1]

It's actually a major shift in reporting... Everyone but CNN, who technically reported it, but kind of buried it is talking about it like it's a big deal. Unlike months ago when it was already a big deal.

While I'll admit she could skate away from this, I don't think it's likely and haven't for a long time.

At a bare minimum she had access to high level government documents as a private citizen. FULL STOP. That right there is huge.

The IG report vs. what she has said, is cornering her like the rat she is. I'm not convinced that she has the proper temperament to withstand the heat that is imminently coming at her over the next several months. Give it 30 days and I bet the Donald has a double digit lead over her in the national polls. Bernie Sanders is right to hang in there. I am beginning to believe he will end up being the nominee, not Hillary. In the event that happens, having weighed in all his nutty ideas, which he'll never get through congress, I will probably vote for him. He's just more respectable than the other two. I still think Trump is the next president.

 

[michal1980]

Repubs in Congress must be trying very very hard to make a connection between Hillary's email security lapses and what happened at Benghazi.

Just like Hillary really wanted to blame a youtube video for Benghazi.

 

[compuwiz1]

Just like Hillary really wanted to blame a youtube video for Benghazi.

There was that, but there is bloodier meat in the water nowadays.

In the end, she's gonna fuck up President Clinton's legacy.

 

[Bowfinger]

It's actually a major shift in reporting... Everyone but CNN, who technically reported it, but kind of buried it is talking about it like it's a big deal. Unlike months ago when it was already a big deal. ...

All of the major news media had multiple stories about Clinton's email issues. Granted, they mostly stuck to the facts and eschewed the hyperbolic speculation and innuendo of the right-wing "news", but that's the difference between journalism and propaganda.

At a bare minimum she had access to high level government documents as a private citizen. FULL STOP. That right there is huge.

Case in point. What "high level government documents" did she still have access to? Be specific and cite a credible source.

That's one of the most common mental disconnects we've seen over and over in those attacking Clinton. They hear "classified documents" and immediately envision nuclear launch codes or thick CIA reports with "Top Secret" stamped all over them. They think of America's deepest, most dangerous secrets, the crown jewels of our national security.

No.

The reality is our government considers even the most banal stuff to be classified. If our U.K. ambassador sent Clinton an email saying the Queen prefers tulips, that's classified. It's a foreign communications. If (when) Clinton's staff sends her a link to a New York Times article about our drone program, it's not only classified, it's top secret because the CIA considers the very existence of this program to be top secret ... even though it's openly discussed in the media.

All but 20-some of Clinton's emails were released. We know that the vast majority of her "classified" emails were just such routine fare, quick notes from abroad forwarded by her staff. We do not know what's in the handful of messages that were not released. We've been told by official sources that none were marked "Classified" when Clinton received them. We do not know how many of them were public things like the NYT article vs. how many were truly secret. We may get a better idea once the FBI investigation is done. Until then, it's all speculation and innuendo.

 

[boomerang]

James Comey: Enforcing the Law Requires Indicting Hillary Clinton

The facts known about Secretary Hillary Clinton’s actions surrounding the use of an unsecure private email server for conducting State Department business, show that she acted with reckless disregard of the security interests of the United States and violated some ten federal statutes. Several are national security-related felonies, just three of which include: 1) disclosure of classified information (22 of which documents were Top Secret); 2) unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents; and 3) destruction of evidence (erasure of the hard drive and deletion of some 30,000 emails by Secretary Clinton), after a government investigation had commenced (Benghazi hearings began October 10, 2012).

 

[Bowfinger]

James Comey: Enforcing the Law Requires Indicting Hillary Clinton

And the American "Thinker" pops out another delusional turd for the rubes in their bubble. It must be a day ending in 'y'.

 

[werepossum]

All of the major news media had multiple stories about Clinton's email issues. Granted, they mostly stuck to the facts and eschewed the hyperbolic speculation and innuendo of the right-wing "news", but that's the difference between journalism and propaganda.

Case in point. What "high level government documents" did she still have access too? Be specific and cite a credible source.

That's one of the most common mental disconnects we've seen over and over in those attacking Clinton. They hear "classified documents" and immediately envision nuclear launch codes or thick CIA reports with "Top Secret" stamped all over them. They think of America's deepest, most dangerous secrets, the crown jewels of our national security.

No.

The reality is our government considers even the most banal stuff to be classified. If our U.K. ambassador sent Clinton an email saying the Queen prefers tulips, that's classified. It's a foreign communications. If (when) Clinton's staff sends her a link to a New York Times article about our drone program, it's not only classified, it's top secret because the CIA considers the very existence of this program to be top secret ... even though it's openly discussed in the media.

All but 20-some of Clinton's emails were released. We know that the vast majority of her "classified" emails were just such routine fare, quick notes from abroad forwarded by her staff. We do not know what's in the handful of messages that were not released. We've been told by official sources that none were marked "Classified" when Clinton received them. We do not know how many of them were public things like the NYT article vs. how many were truly secret. We may get a better idea once the FBI investigation is done. Until then, it's all speculation and innuendo.

Some of her emails were released in part. Twenty-two were deemed so highly classified, so damaging, that not even one word is allowed to be released. People with brains assume that means something beyond passing along a newspaper article. YMMV, obviously.

 

[Jhhnn]

Some of her emails were released in part. Twenty-two were deemed so highly classified, so damaging, that not even one word is allowed to be released. People with brains assume that means something beyond passing along a newspaper article. YMMV, obviously.

Not at all. People with brains realize that there's a difference between receiving & sending. Blumenthal, for example, sent her classified info that a third party leaked to him.

Clinton is to blame for that how, exactly?

 

[Bowfinger]

Some of her emails were released in part. Twenty-two were deemed so highly classified, so damaging, that not even one word is allowed to be released.

Not exactly. They were deemed to meet the criteria for Top Secret, and were therefore withheld in their entirety. Just remember that the people making that determination are regularly criticized -- often by the right -- for their tendency to over-classify anything and everything. This includes asinine things like news articles about their precious secrets.

People with brains assume that means something beyond passing along a newspaper article. YMMV, obviously.

No, people with preconceived biases and partisan agendas assume that. Honest people with brains assume we don't know. Perhaps we'll learn more when the FBI is done (or perhaps they'll cling to their secrecy 'lest the serfs get a peek behind the bureaucrats' curtains).

 

[werepossum]

Not at all. People with brains realize that there's a difference between receiving & sending. Blumenthal, for example, sent her classified info that a third party leaked to him.

Clinton is to blame for that how, exactly?

Let's see - outsmarted by George W Bush, victimized by people like Sid Blumenthal over two thousand times without ever saying "hey . . ." How is this woman qualified to be President again? She'll certainly never figure out how to get a hamburger today and gladly pay on Tuesday.

Not exactly. They were deemed to meet the criteria for Top Secret, and were therefore withheld in their entirety. Just remember that the people making that determination are regularly criticized -- often by the right -- for their tendency to over-classify anything and everything. This includes asinine things like news articles about their precious secrets.

No, people with preconceived biases and partisan agendas assume that. Honest people with brains assume we don't know. Perhaps we'll learn more when the FBI is done (or perhaps they'll cling to their secrecy 'lest the serfs get a peek behind the bureaucrats' curtains).

As I said, YMMV. I fully expect that you'll stick to the narrative of Hillary being viciously victimized by newspaper articles right up until you declare this is old news.

 

[Phoenix86]

I dunno. It's not like a SecState forgets all this stuff when she resigns.

Also, let's not forget that Sandy Berger skated after admitting not only stealing but destroying unique classified documents, under the Bush administration's investigation, and Hillary is being investigated by a very friendly Obama administration. One can't help but suspect that classification is 90% just to keep the rubes from knowing what the ruling class are up to.

The difference between memory retention and document retention is VAST and has significant legal differences. Simply possessing classified material without clearance is a major no-no. She had tons of it, then refused to give it over, then deleted some of it...

Saying X got away with something so Y shouldn't doesn't excuse Y. If one person gets away with murder should we no longer prosecute murder? Further, it's not one simply thing with Clinton, it's multiple major violations. Patreaus was sentenced for 2 years just for sharing info to counter your point.

 

[Phoenix86]

The IG report vs. what she has said, is cornering her like the rat she is. I'm not convinced that she has the proper temperament to withstand the heat that is imminently coming at her over the next several months. Give it 30 days and I bet the Donald has a double digit lead over her in the national polls. Bernie Sanders is right to hang in there. I am beginning to believe he will end up being the nominee, not Hillary. In the event that happens, having weighed in all his nutty ideas, which he'll never get through congress, I will probably vote for him. He's just more respectable than the other two. I still think Trump is the next president.

Pretty much spot on. It seems the FBI is close to recommending an indictment, that should push the super delegates to Bernie. If it happens quick enough might affect some of the last state votes, probably not quick enough for CA though...

People forget the president doesn't write laws I guess. Trump has some really fucking odd ideas and most of them are within the power of the president, Bernie's odd ideas require new laws. I'd vote for Bernie over Trump any day of the week and twice on Sunday, it'd be an interesting race for sure. The upcoming debate will give us a peek at how that would go.

 

[Phoenix86]

Not at all. People with brains realize that there's a difference between receiving & sending. Blumenthal, for example, sent her classified info that a third party leaked to him.

Clinton is to blame for that how, exactly?

Because it was sent to her unauthorized, unsecured, personal server.

 

[Jhhnn]

Let's see - outsmarted by George W Bush, victimized by people like Sid Blumenthal over two thousand times without ever saying "hey . . ." How is this woman qualified to be President again? She'll certainly never figure out how to get a hamburger today and gladly pay on Tuesday.

In other words, no, she can't be blamed for merely receiving classified information via email.

Your inability to acknowledge that reveals your agenda of partisan hackery.

 

[UglyCasanova]

I saw that even the NYT Editorial Board has changed it's tone and admit that Hillary has a very real problem.

No matter how you feel of the severity of the email issue, how can anyone deny what a poor lapse in judgement this was? Has she stated why she set up her own personal server to conduct official business? Does her reason and rationale really boil down to "convenience"?

 

[Jhhnn]

Because it was sent to her unauthorized, unsecured, personal server.

That's immaterial given that classified information isn't supposed to be on the open internet at all.

If somebody PM'd unmarked classified information to me here & I copy/pasted/commented to somebody else via their private server, that somebody else is obviously guilty of nothing even if they too forward it.

That's true for everybody including the SoS. It can be no other way. The SoS & others have additional responsibilities with information that is obviously sensitive, of course, like not revealing it publically or outside a circle of people with the right to know.

While her use of her private server exclusively was admittedly improper it doesn't change the above in the slightest. OTOH, it apparently wasn't illegal at the time or she'd already be busted. Therefore, no legal distinction can be drawn between information transmitted through it or the preferred State Dept servers.

 

[Svnla]

From HuffPo -

A State Department inspector general report, released Wednesday, found that she had not sought permission to use a private email server while she was in office, contradicting her explanation that she has repeated throughout her campaign.

The report is damning, noting that she had “a personal obligation to discuss using her email account to conduct official business,” but there was no evidence she sought or received approval from the State Department. The State investigation also was critical of Clinton’s handling of emails under the Federal Records Act after she stepped down. While she later turned over thousands of emails, she had thousands more she considered personal destroyed. The government has now determined that more than 100 emails Clinton sent contain classified information.

The report also points out that the email rules were clarified before Clinton became Secretary of State to not allow the use of a private server because of “significant security risks.” In November 2010, her deputy chief of operations recommended “putting you on State email” to shield her email from spam. She responded that she would consider using a separate address, but “I don’t want any risk of the personal being accessible.” The report says Clinton was sent a memo in 2011 warning of hackers trying to access private email accounts, and that she was given a personal briefing on the issue.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-peyronnin/clintons-mistake_b_10148634.html



Poor Hillary. What she said all along =! what happened. Those evil Republicans, stop messing up her memory, she is too busing working hard for the working folks (such as Goldman Sachs) to remember to follow rules and laws. LOL.

When two of Hillary biggest mouthpieces (CNN (posts #104 and #135) and HuffPo) are critical of her, you know there is something more than fishy.

 

[interchange]

Well it is clear that she had something on there that she doesn't want the public to read. I can envision this being anywhere from saying something bad about a colleague she will need support from to win the presidency / succeed in the white house all the way to a serious violation of national security. Don't think we'll ever find out.

 

[Phoenix86]

That's immaterial given that classified information isn't supposed to be on the open internet at all.

If somebody PM'd unmarked classified information to me here & I copy/pasted/commented to somebody else via their private server, that somebody else is obviously guilty of nothing even if they too forward it.

That's true for everybody including the SoS. It can be no other way. The SoS & others have additional responsibilities with information that is obviously sensitive, of course, like not revealing it publically or outside a circle of people with the right to know.

While her use of her private server exclusively was admittedly improper it doesn't change the above in the slightest. OTOH, it apparently wasn't illegal at the time or she'd already be busted. Therefore, no legal distinction can be drawn between information transmitted through it or the preferred State Dept servers.

Being sent unsolicited classified info? Sure, you're in the clear. Having it as your known work email for the SoS? Not so much. It's her job to view sensitive material, the private server was where she wanted to receive it. You can't claim that you didn't want to have it sent there when you were directing people to send it there.