Starting Strength Experiences

[brikis98]

From the Starting Strength Wiki, the basic routine is:

Workout A
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift

Workout B
3x5 Squat
3x5 Press
5x3 Power Clean


Workouts A and B alternate on 3 non-consecutive days per week. Many people add pull-ups or dips to the end of the workout.

 

[BeauJangles]

I've had the book for 2 days now. So far I am really enjoying the read. I am thoroughly impressed with the amount of details and illustrations.

My advice for you is to just do it. Try it out for three months. If you don't like it, find something. A lot of new lifters get caught up in finding the "best" program or whatever. The best thing you can do for yourself is to get out there and learn to lift safely. No matter what program you do, you'll build strength.

 

[alkemyst]

As someone who hasn't gotten the Starting Strength book yet but plans to, how do the exercises flow weekly as compared to SL's 5x5?

They are equivalent. The 5x5 gets over some peoples thoughts that other programs have to few reps/sets.

 

[Lamont Burns]

Even the author/creator of the SL plan would disagree with that, and has posted as such... and it's been copied here before. Ignore time.

 

[alkemyst]

Just like all the portion control diet authors claim their's is different. Both programs are targeting large compound movements as the primary lifts going for near maximums then calling it quits.

Of course Park and Rippetoe are going to say they are different/better than each other's.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Just like all the portion control diet authors claim their's is different. Both programs are targeting large compound movements as the primary lifts going for near maximums then calling it quits.

Of course Park and Rippetoe are going to say they are different/better than each other's.

At higher weights, the overall volume will determine how quickly you overtrain. Stronglifts 5x5 is great for beginners starting with the bar. As you get toward squatting 250+, five sets is less optimal. If you switch to three sets, you still challenge your CNS, but won't overtrain as quickly. That fact is founded deep in the heart of exercise physiology. Too much volume at too high of an intensity will result in overtraining, no matter what. Decrease the volume while lifting at the same intensity and you slow down the process.

 

[alkemyst]

that's assuming 5 sets is already too much. There are many that don't think so.

 

[gramboh]

that's assuming 5 sets is already too much. There are many that don't think so.

In this specific program (SL 5x5), 5x5 is too much volume for a novice reaching failure because the program uses progressive overload AND sets across. Starting Strength will get novices farther from my personal experience and reading many others. I think it is a superior program to SL 5x5, also beacuse it encourages people to learn power cleans instead of copping out with rows (which makes no sense as a sub).

 

[alkemyst]

In this specific program (SL 5x5), 5x5 is too much volume for a novice reaching failure because the program uses progressive overload AND sets across. Starting Strength will get novices farther from my personal experience and reading many others. I think it is a superior program to SL 5x5, also beacuse it encourages people to learn power cleans instead of copping out with rows (which makes no sense as a sub).

Plenty of generations got big and freaky on 3x10 and 5x10 programs....

Most end up modifying either program though.

 

[NGC_604]

Plenty of generations got big and freaky on 3x10 and 5x10 programs....

Most end up modifying either program though.

Right, but it's a program for beginners, who have no business modifying the goddamn routine. I don't think anyone is saying that it's a program you have to do for life. But when it comes to those new to lifting, it's hard to beat either program. I prefer SS simply because of Power Cleans.

 

[norsy]

Anyway, I'm not one to sit around and espouse the virtues of Starting Strength - in fact, I've been on here many times in the past posting that its not the end-all-be-all to weight lifting. However, that has to do with the specific routine itself, and not the basics of lifting that it teaches, which you are seemingly disagreeing with.

Which routine do you recommend for a beginner?

 

[Deeko]

Which routine do you recommend for a beginner?

It really depends on what you're looking for out of a program. I personally did a more typical bodybuilding split when I first started lifting, and I had great results with that.

Any beginner is going to see significant gains if they have and follow a solid lifting program, be it starting strength, stronglifts, or Arnold's program. If your goal to squat and deadlift more, well, maybe SS is your best option. It really all depends on what you want to get out of it.

 

[alkemyst]

plus not everyone is cut out for heavy squats nor deadlifts.

 

[Deeko]

Eh....define "heavy". Of course everyone has different strength levels, but unless you have some serious issues, like a bad knee injury that makes the exercise impossible, there's no good reason for a lifting routine to not include those exercises, or to go heavy relative to your body.

Bone and connective tissue strengthen slower than muscle, but they DO strengthen. Its all about doing it the right way and not overtraining/pushing yourself too hard.

 

[alkemyst]

It has to do with many just arent as dedicated. Some can't stomach squats and how you can feel. Some are intimidated by exercise.

I do squats and will do deadlifts again when my arm is definitely ok.

 

[Deeko]

Like I said then...there's no GOOD reason. What you're basically saying is they can and should do them, they just don't want to.

 

[alkemyst]

probably 95% of people would rather not have to workout at all. Hence why I recommend realistic programs for them instead of a major strength training plan.

 

[brikis98]

probably 95% of people would rather not have to workout at all. Hence why I recommend realistic programs for them instead of a major strength training plan.

Most people are lazy, but that is a poor excuse to recommend an inferior routine. If they see crappy results, they are far more likely to quit. In fact, if you look at your typical gym goer who does the standard "easy" BB style routine, this is EXACTLY what happens: they come in excited, work out for a couple weeks, see no real change in their bodies and give up. On the other hand, in my experience, far more people who start SS or SL 5x5 stay with it because they see massive gains very quickly. This is the exact issue Rippetoe talks about in his Incremental Increases article which is well worth a read:

It’s true that most people are lazy slobs, but if that lazy slob comes to your gym and you put him on a program that either doesn’t make anything about his fat lazy body change – or you put her on no program at all (“Here are the treadmills and the TV controls. Aerobics is at 6. Hope you come!&#8221 – you can hardly expect them to come back. Perhaps if selling them 24-month paper is your only interest in the situation, this is fine. I don’t write contracts, so my interest has always been having them come back and bring a friend. I have always tried to do my best at making something about their lazy slob bodies change in a positive way as quickly as possible, to catch their interest within that four-workout window of attention

 

[alkemyst]

You could argue almost anyone's routine is inferior as you step up that hill from the everyday guy, to the gym rat to the professional athlete.

It's what you can get yourself to do regularly that matters....fuck even if the best one can do is a 30min walk three times a week and a decent diet that's still better than nothing.

Many have condo or HOA gyms that are limited and have no desire to spend extra on a separate membership. Some are just afraid of free weights.

I wouldn't say all "body builder" routines are easy and I think it's bullshit anyway as anything that's not Westside, Rippetoe or SL/SS (et al) becomes a worthless bodybuilding program.

Arnold's original program worked for him well and was a polar opposite to the low rep/set mentality of today. It gets a lot of buy in because you do get results and it's quick.

However; many of those doing it are extremely young and would find results in almost any programs they applied themselves too.

 

[BlackTigers]

probably 95% of people would rather not have to workout at all. Hence why I recommend realistic programs for them instead of a major strength training plan.

Eh, SS isn't that hard - you just have to learn to like a certain exercise (squatzzzzz). I tried the Max-OT routine...and while I got a better pump (massive pump, actually), I liked the strength oriented aspect of lifting better, so I went back to SS shortly after.

To be honest, SS can be very intimidating at first, you have to learn form for some of the hardest compound lifts (save the O-lifts) and do them very often - I can see how some people wouldn't like that.

And you were right - those just starting are going to see gains on anything, it's just a matter of how fast one gets to the end of his beginner gains and how fast he wears himself out.

 

[coreyb]

How would you know arnolds first program? He was a power lifter before he ever got into bodybuilding. Which would be pretty similar to the SS style of lifting.

You could argue almost anyone's routine is inferior as you step up that hill from the everyday guy, to the gym rat to the professional athlete.

It's what you can get yourself to do regularly that matters....fuck even if the best one can do is a 30min walk three times a week and a decent diet that's still better than nothing.

Many have condo or HOA gyms that are limited and have no desire to spend extra on a separate membership. Some are just afraid of free weights.

I wouldn't say all "body builder" routines are easy and I think it's bullshit anyway as anything that's not Westside, Rippetoe or SL/SS (et al) becomes a worthless bodybuilding program.

Arnold's original program worked for him well and was a polar opposite to the low rep/set mentality of today. It gets a lot of buy in because you do get results and it's quick.

However; many of those doing it are extremely young and would find results in almost any programs they applied themselves too.

 

[coreyb]

how could you recommend anything but SS or some similar strength program for a beginner? you should always have a good strength base before you start to specialize in bodybuilding or something else. all the best bodybuilders had some pretty damn good strength, and they didnt get it by doing curls thats for sure.

 

[alkemyst]

How would you know arnolds first program? He was a power lifter before he ever got into bodybuilding. Which would be pretty similar to the SS style of lifting.

Yeah it's too bad Arnold never wrote books, articles, or did movies on this kind of shit. Fortunately my late uncle was Karnac the Great and willed me his supadupa mind powers.

 

[alkemyst]

how could you recommend anything but SS or some similar strength program for a beginner? you should always have a good strength base before you start to specialize in bodybuilding or something else. all the best bodybuilders had some pretty damn good strength, and they didnt get it by doing curls thats for sure.

The problem you have like others, is you think all non-SS programs do not include powerlifts and just focus on specialized movements.

The primary idea behind them is low-volume, highly-compound movements are to keep the CNS in check along with other problems that overload a beginning and put on a really good strength base.

Others disagree and think low volume, simplified programs leave too much out.

I will agree though most would be best suited with one of these programs, but the reality is everyone thinks they know what they are doing and get fancy with designing their own programs or worst modifying the movements. I also feel most will not have a gym capable of doing are real power lifting program and probably need a more total body/machine based system as that's all they have to work with.

Personally I get a bit of a kick out of all these 'experts' I run into who 'back in the day' brag they were some kind of sports superstar (don't think I am talking about anyone here...these are people outside the forums). They start programs that supposedly turn men into pros and day after day you just see them maybe drop 5-6lbs but never build muscle or really change.

I just entered week 4 since a 4 year lay off of lifting due to an injury. My arm is still not 100%, but almost everyone that sees me everyday even comments. What's funny is those that are constantly making going out difficult with "I can't eat that", "I need to eat my own food", etc still don't look too much different and have been doing it way before the start of the year.

The trick is sticking with something and doing it regularly and with effort. Skipping workouts and doing a workout half-assed/mindlessly does nothing to change anyone. So here I am another morning starting at 4:30am so I can eat, wait, hit the gym, get back to walk my dog 45min and then rush off to work...then I rush home to get back out to dog park and not only exercise my dog some, but myself as well. During the day I am constantly thinking of the time I so I know when to eat something before I start getting hungry, I feel like I am always taking something in so I never feel like I am starving myself.

 

[alkemyst]

Eh, SS isn't that hard - you just have to learn to like a certain exercise (squatzzzzz). I tried the Max-OT routine...and while I got a better pump (massive pump, actually), I liked the strength oriented aspect of lifting better, so I went back to SS shortly after.

To be honest, SS can be very intimidating at first, you have to learn form for some of the hardest compound lifts (save the O-lifts) and do them very often - I can see how some people wouldn't like that.

And you were right - those just starting are going to see gains on anything, it's just a matter of how fast one gets to the end of his beginner gains and how fast he wears himself out.

intimidating = hard to most people.

Also if you think a really good set of squats or deads is easy you are probably doing them wrong.