Starcraft 2 - Read Post #2 for a useful beginner guide

[shortylickens]

Me and trident and some other dudes just got stomped by a bunch of platinums.
I'm going to bed.

 

[Molondo]

mass rines didn't work this time?

 

[TridenT]

Me and trident and some other dudes just got stomped by a bunch of platinums.
I'm going to bed.

Truth, I have the replay to prove it. If you guys were more experienced we might have had a chance, but they rushed zealots and roaches. I couldn't expand to save my life. I kept firing out voidrays and stalkers just to prolong the inevitable ragequit I had to do.

We just got done playing an inhouse 2v2 AT game... You can see the results here: http://www.wikiupload.com/OUeXPfjI

 

[MikeyLSU]

damn, I just played my first 2v2 game, it was random.

My teammate has a terrible connection and disconnects right after getting his first zerglings out.

Once I get his money, I get 4 quick barracks up(already had 2 being built) and go mass marines to try to surprise them, no other choice. Also was able to build some zerglings from his base, lol.

Destroyed them, they didn't stand a chance. Helped me a lot that they suck, but still, I should get extra credit for that. But instead both me and my teammate get a win.

 

[Aikouka]

We just got done playing an inhouse 2v2 AT game... You can see the results here: http://www.wikiupload.com/OUeXPfjI

Really surprised you wanted to upload the replay for the game that was supposed to be a "friendly game" where you built cannons in our base, a higher tier move.

Don't even ask me to play again.

 

[TridenT]

Really surprised you wanted to upload the replay for the game that was supposed to be a "friendly game" where you built cannons in our base, a higher tier move.

Don't even ask me to play again.

Nah, in base cannon rush is usually a pretty noob move. I was testing to see if you guys would have good enough build orders or not.

Both were close, but they couldn't get their zealots/marines out fast enough.

 

[MikeyLSU]

I just watched the replay and it does seem pretty bad to do that to people who are learning the game. Knowing you could win any which way, you could at least let it get to midgame so they can get some units out.

I didn't know what I was going to watch, but it was so obvious from the beginning they didn't really know what they were doing.

 

[Aikouka]

I just watched the replay and it does seem pretty bad to do that to people who are learning the game. Knowing you could win any which way, you could at least let it get to midgame so they can get some units out.

I didn't know what I was going to watch, but it was so obvious from the beginning they didn't really know what they were doing.

Now I recall why I quit the original in the first place... it's never any fun. You fight people that do simplistic shit like spam marines... there's no concept of actually building up an army (hopefully diverse... not like the guy with 20 carriers earlier :\).

Tactics? Not necessary... just spam easy shit.

 

[MikeyLSU]

Now I recall why I quit the original in the first place... it's never any fun. You fight people that do simplistic shit like spam marines... there's no concept of actually building up an army (hopefully diverse... not like the guy with 20 carriers earlier :\).

Tactics? Not necessary... just spam easy shit.

there actually is a lot of strategy involved at higher levels.

Sadly to say that many many lower level games end quickly due to a rush because too many can't handle it.

Whether it be a zergling/reaper/or zealot rush. Once you get to a little higher level of play, you start to counter units and have to be on your toes(very tough for me). And that is why it is so important to always be scouting to know what your opponent is making.

For instance, in my game that ended up being 2v1, my only hope was to mass an tier 1 unit, and it worked. But you put that same situation against 2 gold or higher players and they destroy me.

 

[hans030390]

Now I recall why I quit the original in the first place... it's never any fun. You fight people that do simplistic shit like spam marines... there's no concept of actually building up an army (hopefully diverse... not like the guy with 20 carriers earlier :\).

Tactics? Not necessary... just spam easy shit.

So, you're upset because you can't handle a tactic (yes, it's a tactic) that involves spamming simple units? Learning how to counter it properly (it's really pretty easy) is more productive than complaining about it.

Since you mentioned spamming marines, you could easily counter that with seige tanks if you play as Terran. Hell, tanks would decimate them in seige mode before they had much of a chance to hurt you. If you scout early and often, you'll know what they're doing and can prepare. I'm not very familiar with the other races, but I've had the psionic storm used on me before (Protoss), and it wiped out my entire Terran army in seconds. I wasn't familiar with it, and was therefore unprepared to fight and win.

 

[JD50]

How do you beat the AI in skirmish mode on Very Hard? They get a bazillion guys before it's economically possible.

 

[Aikouka]

So, you're upset because you can't handle a tactic (yes, it's a tactic) that involves spamming simple units? Learning how to counter it properly (it's really pretty easy) is more productive than complaining about it.

No, I'm upset that this "tactic" is silly and simplistic.. what the hell is the point of a strategy game if you use no real strategy. Just sit there mashing the 'A' button to make more marines.

That's real hard.

EDIT:

I just had a much longer match... about an hour long and it was actually far more enjoyable. Why? Because it was actually quite a bit close and wasn't just two people spamming marines. Not to mention to take out the number of marines that these people used, you'd have to have an entire fleet of tanks. I'm not talking about 20 marines... I'm talking more like 2 people with 50+ marines each. I did have some tanks protecting my base, but not nearly enough to fend these people off.

 

[Dumac]

No, I'm upset that this "tactic" is silly and simplistic.. what the hell is the point of a strategy game if you use no real strategy. Just sit there mashing the 'A' button to make more marines.

That's real hard.

A lot ofnbad terran players mass marines because its really easy to do.

However, its also really easy to scout and easy to counter, so I don't mind those players giving me an easy win under my belt.

 

[Aikouka]

A lot ofnbad terran players mass marines because its really easy to do.

However, its also really easy to scout and easy to counter, so I don't mind those players giving me an easy win under my belt.

What would you recommend as an easy scouting tactic? Throwing a SCV inside/outside their base? I usually wait a little bit for the comsat because of the dire need of resources early on.

 

[Glitchny]

So, you're upset because you can't handle a tactic (yes, it's a tactic) that involves spamming simple units? Learning how to counter it properly (it's really pretty easy) is more productive than complaining about it.

Since you mentioned spamming marines, you could easily counter that with seige tanks if you play as Terran. Hell, tanks would decimate them in seige mode before they had much of a chance to hurt you. If you scout early and often, you'll know what they're doing and can prepare. I'm not very familiar with the other races, but I've had the psionic storm used on me before (Protoss), and it wiped out my entire Terran army in seconds. I wasn't familiar with it, and was therefore unprepared to fight and win.

exactly this, there are counters to pretty much every unit, the tactics comes into play with how fast you can switch tech or tech up to counter your opponent and keep harassing them/expanding at the same time.

For people very new it helps a lot to practice against the computer A.I. you can figure out your build order and counters at a slower pace and without losing rankings etc. There are also some good challenges, 3v1 vs medium AI was actually much harder than I expected.

Here are a couple of links for new players that I felt were helpful, and definitely improved my performance.

I'm also down to play friendly custom games whenever, I added my info but it hasn't made it to the main page so I'll put it down again.

SkillGlitch.872

 

[SlitheryDee]

Nah, in base cannon rush is usually a pretty noob move. I was testing to see if you guys would have good enough build orders or not.

Both were close, but they couldn't get their zealots/marines out fast enough.

I want a rematch. I don't think anyone has ever paid less attention to stuff that was going on in their base than I did then. Literally didn't know what was going on until the game notified me that my base was under attack. I could have stopped your incursion into my base with nothing more than a few of my own probes, but I just wasn't paying attention. I did manage to get a couple of zealots up there to see that you had absolutely nothing but a couple of pylons and a forge.

if you ever use that particular tactic again, I'll beat you. Stupid noob mistake, really.

 

[SlitheryDee]

What would you recommend as an easy scouting tactic? Throwing a SCV inside/outside their base? I usually wait a little bit for the comsat because of the dire need of resources early on.

One thing I've learned is that the comsat is much more valuable for mules than for recon. You really shouldn't ever have enough energy left for a scan because you'll be spamming mules constantly for the resource boost they give. Scout with scvs and use the comsat to call down mules and your economy will benefit rather than take a hit from the lost scvs.

 

[hans030390]

No, I'm upset that this "tactic" is silly and simplistic.. what the hell is the point of a strategy game if you use no real strategy. Just sit there mashing the 'A' button to make more marines.

That's real hard.

EDIT:

I just had a much longer match... about an hour long and it was actually far more enjoyable. Why? Because it was actually quite a bit close and wasn't just two people spamming marines. Not to mention to take out the number of marines that these people used, you'd have to have an entire fleet of tanks. I'm not talking about 20 marines... I'm talking more like 2 people with 50+ marines each. I did have some tanks protecting my base, but not nearly enough to fend these people off.

A strategy is a strategy, even if it's simplistic and terrible. It's only a strategy game if you make it one, and sometimes "cheap" tactics are the best strategy to use against another player. The part of the strategy is where you counter properly. If the other player isn't treating it as a "real" strategy game, then that should be an easy win for you.

From my experience, 100 marines can be pretty easily dominated by a few tanks in seige mode and your own infantry army. If you'd had seen them spamming marines through scanning, you could easily build 10 tanks and a decent amount of marines and marauders to counter that before they strike. They'd likely have had no chance.

 

[Molondo]

One thing I've learned is that the comsat is much more valuable for mules than for recon. You really shouldn't ever have enough energy left for a scan because you'll be spamming mules constantly for the resource boost they give. Scout with scvs and use the comsat to call down mules and your economy will benefit rather than take a hit from the lost scvs.

If you haven't scouted them, i wouldn't use a mule. much more valuable to radar them

 

[hans030390]

...I'm talking more like 2 people with 50+ marines each. I did have some tanks protecting my base, but not nearly enough to fend these people off.

I made a short demonstration video showing how 10 tanks in seige mode (seige mode is extremely important) and a handful of marines and marauders completely dominate a force of 100 marines, 10+ marauders, and 4 medivacs. By the time 2 people spam 100 marines, you could definitely have out a enough tanks and infantry to defend yourself. This even applies in 2v2 if your teammate isn't that great. Seige tanks are pretty quick to get out if you focus on a couple factories right after you build a couple barracks. I usually queue up one tank and then research the seige mode as soon as I can after that. Move on to the 2nd factory after that to build faster, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJrENUdLG78

As you can see, 10 tanks is complete overkill. I only lose 2. This should give you a good idea on how to counter marine spamming. If he spams and attacks with them early, you'll have to rely on such things as walling off the ramp to your base with supply depots/barracks for defense (harder to do in 2v2), perfecting your early build order for initial defense, and just being quick in general. But if he wants to wait to mass up marines, that's his mistake.

Sending one of your SCVs out after the first barracks and 2 supply depots is a good way to scout. You can set waypoints for them...have them scan and come back without you having to watch over them the whole time. Other than that, I'd usually send a single unit to scout (marine, reaver, medivac, etc.).

I don't mean to insult your intelligence if you're already familiar with the game. Given you had trouble with mass marines, I'm hoping this won't be something you already know and actually helps you out at some point. I learned a lot very quickly from youtube videos (tutorials and replays) and watching replays of me playing the AI. Those are good ways to set up a solid foundation, especially when it comes to early build orders and such.

 

[Dumac]

What would you recommend as an easy scouting tactic? Throwing a SCV inside/outside their base? I usually wait a little bit for the comsat because of the dire need of resources early on.

I play protoss, and I have a probe run around their base in the beginning. It usually lasts a while. Almost always you can tell what build they are going based on the number of workers they make, how early they get the gas. and what buildings they are building.

I may do it once more depending on the situation, and then after that I should have an observer up.

Since lots of player don't build detectors early game, observers are very useful scouts. Especially against zerg.

 

[Dumac]

One thing I've learned is that the comsat is much more valuable for mules than for recon. You really shouldn't ever have enough energy left for a scan because you'll be spamming mules constantly for the resource boost they give. Scout with scvs and use the comsat to call down mules and your economy will benefit rather than take a hit from the lost scvs.

I find that it depends. If you are having trouble scouting, or forgot about it, a quick radar scan is easy-mode scouting.

If you have scouting down, or are going with a cheesy strategy that doesn't rely on scouting (like mass marines) then mule up.

 

[TridenT]

I play protoss, and I have a probe run around their base in the beginning. It usually lasts a while. Almost always you can tell what build they are going based on the number of workers they make, how early they get the gas. and what buildings they are building.

I may do it once more depending on the situation, and then after that I should have an observer up.

Since lots of player don't build detectors early game, observers are very useful scouts. Especially against zerg.

My games are usually over before anyone even thinks of getting an observer.

 

[Dumac]

I learned a lot very quickly from youtube videos (tutorials and replays) and watching replays of me playing the AI. Those are good ways to set up a solid foundation, especially when it comes to early build orders and such.

Yeah, watching youtube videos and tutorials is SO helpful.

I went from a bad player to a mediocre player once I learned about build orders, how to scout, and how to counter.

 

[Dumac]

My games are usually over before anyone even thinks of getting an observer.

My observer is usually out around 4 minutes.

Your games end before then?