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Star Wars: The Old Republic Trailer
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zerocool84
Lifer
Me too. I will never play an MMO cus you have to devote so much of your life to it to even be competitive or get left behind.
Why do people associate role playing games with quests and levels and raids and thees and thous and high English and linear story lines and set, specific classes?
All of those things belong in a certain kind of role playing game, but none of them are required in order for a game to be a role playing game. Second Life, for instance, has none of them and yet it is a role playing game. UO in its hey-day didn't have quests or levels or raids, and it was certainly a role playing game.
The next big, really successful, long-term MMO will be one that goes back to the time before there were levels and classes and a linear story line. The reason most modern games have trouble with "end-game content" is because they follow a linear path. The problem with that is that a persistent-state game has no ending. Therefore, unless you are continually developing new content (and an expansion every year doesn't count), you will ALWAYS run out of end-game material. Once you get to the end of a string, there is nothing more there. Once you exhaust the "story", there's nothing left to do.
The next successful MMORPG needs to be an open-ended game with no classes and nothing but social norms restricting what you do. It needs to be a game based around a large world in which anything is possible and your path through that world should be of your own making. Think about virtually every MMO that comes out anymore...everyone starts in the same place, everyone follows the same story, everyone does the same quests, everyone goes through the same geographic progression. How is that immersive? In the end, everyone runs out of the same quests to do, everyone's already fought over all the same loot, and everyone ends up identical in the quest for "balance".
I would pay big money for a game in which nothing was dictated by artificial restriction or a contrived linear path through the game. The game should be simple and place emphasis on immersion into the game world and the social structure of said world. Grouping should not be forced or even encouraged, but rather should be done out of common joy of fighting along side someone or killing a bigger monster. One should be able to go anywhere and attempt to do anything right from the beginning. Linear progression through skill trees and levels are just more bullocks and artificial restrictions. I'd like to see a skill-based game that combines player skill and character development. The player skill aspect should not overshadow the character development aspect, but equipment and "skills" should not be the sole deciding factor in a fight.
My opinion is that World of Warcraft is a fine game for people who like to play in a tin-can and follow a tight-rope through the game. The biggest problem with that game is that World of Warcraft was the first MMO that was targeted towards everyone, and as such is the most successful financially. Hence, other developers try to emulate it. Virtually every MMO to come out in the last few years have been direct clones of World of Warcraft. Warhammer Online, from Mythic, was to be the spiritual successor of Dark Age of Camelot, which was pretty much the last open-ended MMO to be developed, but it ended up being a carbon copy of WoW, right down to the linear progression through the game. At least with DAoC, you had freedom, and as long as you were careful or had the money, you could pretty much go anywhere right from the get go. Of course, as Mythic saw the popularity of WoW, they adjusted the game to the point where they made it just as linear.
WoW didn't ruin the MMORPG industry. It simply drew many developers that otherwise would not have been involved in such an industry and spawned a shit-ton of copy-cats. Hopefully, we'll get a developer in here who is interested in building an immersive world based upon choice and society, rather than a contrived story line and preset character progression. Maybe this game will be that. Maybe it'll be another WoW clone. Either way, I'll give it a look in the hopes that they will give us a real role playing game that allows us to choose our roles, rather than thrusts them upon us.
All of those things belong in a certain kind of role playing game, but none of them are required in order for a game to be a role playing game. Second Life, for instance, has none of them and yet it is a role playing game. UO in its hey-day didn't have quests or levels or raids, and it was certainly a role playing game.
The next big, really successful, long-term MMO will be one that goes back to the time before there were levels and classes and a linear story line. The reason most modern games have trouble with "end-game content" is because they follow a linear path. The problem with that is that a persistent-state game has no ending. Therefore, unless you are continually developing new content (and an expansion every year doesn't count), you will ALWAYS run out of end-game material. Once you get to the end of a string, there is nothing more there. Once you exhaust the "story", there's nothing left to do.
The next successful MMORPG needs to be an open-ended game with no classes and nothing but social norms restricting what you do. It needs to be a game based around a large world in which anything is possible and your path through that world should be of your own making. Think about virtually every MMO that comes out anymore...everyone starts in the same place, everyone follows the same story, everyone does the same quests, everyone goes through the same geographic progression. How is that immersive? In the end, everyone runs out of the same quests to do, everyone's already fought over all the same loot, and everyone ends up identical in the quest for "balance".
I would pay big money for a game in which nothing was dictated by artificial restriction or a contrived linear path through the game. The game should be simple and place emphasis on immersion into the game world and the social structure of said world. Grouping should not be forced or even encouraged, but rather should be done out of common joy of fighting along side someone or killing a bigger monster. One should be able to go anywhere and attempt to do anything right from the beginning. Linear progression through skill trees and levels are just more bullocks and artificial restrictions. I'd like to see a skill-based game that combines player skill and character development. The player skill aspect should not overshadow the character development aspect, but equipment and "skills" should not be the sole deciding factor in a fight.
My opinion is that World of Warcraft is a fine game for people who like to play in a tin-can and follow a tight-rope through the game. The biggest problem with that game is that World of Warcraft was the first MMO that was targeted towards everyone, and as such is the most successful financially. Hence, other developers try to emulate it. Virtually every MMO to come out in the last few years have been direct clones of World of Warcraft. Warhammer Online, from Mythic, was to be the spiritual successor of Dark Age of Camelot, which was pretty much the last open-ended MMO to be developed, but it ended up being a carbon copy of WoW, right down to the linear progression through the game. At least with DAoC, you had freedom, and as long as you were careful or had the money, you could pretty much go anywhere right from the get go. Of course, as Mythic saw the popularity of WoW, they adjusted the game to the point where they made it just as linear.
WoW didn't ruin the MMORPG industry. It simply drew many developers that otherwise would not have been involved in such an industry and spawned a shit-ton of copy-cats. Hopefully, we'll get a developer in here who is interested in building an immersive world based upon choice and society, rather than a contrived story line and preset character progression. Maybe this game will be that. Maybe it'll be another WoW clone. Either way, I'll give it a look in the hopes that they will give us a real role playing game that allows us to choose our roles, rather than thrusts them upon us.
homercles337
Diamond Member
Ok, im confused. I dont play MMOs, but how does "story" involve the player when "story" is not an element that is possible? Am i to believe that all MMO players are experiencing the same story simultaneously?
This is generally the case with almost all modern MMOs. It is also the reason that they are so stale and unsuccessful (comparatively).
On the other hand, though, this trailer could simply be the premise for the world they are building the MMO in. The MMO does not necessarily have to happen immediately after the fight in the trailer and culminate at level 50 with a raid against the evil guy that you run 1,000 times to get that last piece of armor before you're "perfect".
Optimally, the premise behind the world of the MMO would be set by that trailer and everyones' characters would simply be characters living in the world and the aftermath that followed. The game does not, and in the case of an MMO, should not follow a linear path from "beginning" to "end".
Unfortunately, that's likely the path that BioWare will take, because that's the path that WoW has taken, and WoW is financially successful. The MMO industry, though, needs the other kind of game...the open adventure game.
Trailer is epic. The in game footage can be found on the official website under the class descriptions for Bounty Hunter and Trooper, both of which look like fun to play. Definitely will play this as I was a huge SWG nerd as my second MMO next to EVE. This game promises something that no other MMO has done right... story telling.
zerocool84
Lifer
:thumbsup:
BenSkywalker
Diamond Member
Because it tends to be significantly more entertaining to the overwhelming majority of people then the sand box games you want to see. Not saying there is anything wrong with sand box games, but they tend to get kind of boring after a while which is why none of them have ever had enduring long term success.
They use phasing to do it, and it's already been done for a while now in MMOs. As a general example, there is an area in WoW called Icecrown that when you first go there pretty much the entire zone is infested with nasty hostiles outside of one little corner. You partake in a series of quests that helps push the enemy line back and eventually end up opening up another town. This isn't an instanced area, it's just what loads when you enter the area(which is stream loading in WoW, no pauses to load) depends on how far you have progressed down that path. Downside to this is that someone who has finished off that quest line can't help someone just starting it out at all. Upside is you are able to give everyone an orchestrated story line while still being in the context of a MMO.
If you could convince publishers it would work, I'm sure they would be happy to do it. Sandbox games that charge a subscription don't seem to have a lot of mass market appeal though.
Even using WoW, how is your roll thrust upon you? I have a lot of issues with WoW, but the amount of choices is significantly higher then that of most games. I know of several people who have played the game for years and don't partake in any raids or what most people would think of as end game content. They still have loads of fun doing all sorts of different things(one of them is an exotic pet collector as an example). I'm not saying WoW is a sandbox game, but to say your roll is thrust upon you is quite a bit of a stretch I would say.
Today's piece at RockPaperShotgun explains a bit of how a story-driven MMO could go.
Plus, the smuggler looks like the Han Solo action figure I had as a kid. Neat.
Plus, the smuggler looks like the Han Solo action figure I had as a kid. Neat.
bunnyfubbles
Lifer
While I'm on the same boat of others disappointed that this is a MMO and not a true KOTOR3 in the mold of its predecessors, I will give it a shot. I'm still skeptical though as I don't see how they could make it work, I could see it either being the best game ever or the let down us doubters are anticipating.
zinfamous
No Lifer
they need to come out with a single player/MMO style game. something with a single player intro the length of KOTOR, or so, where after completing that story arc you gain access to the larger MMO universe. Super-high level with various quests and PvP type stuff to keep you interested. maybe you can plug your character back into the single-player world to try out some new tricks gained in MMO world.
all expansions and updates would be a new expansive single-player story line, more advanced than the first, with even further leveling and abilities, etc...and an expanded MMO world to match the now uber gods with nothing better to do.
I sometimes think it would be worth Bioware's while to simply do some Redux's of Baldur's Gate, BG2 and KOTOR.
Same game, same plot, same everything with updated high rez graphics/textures. and sound... and maybe some minor game-play improvements.
I played the originals until my eyes bled I'd, loved them, and buy all three of the Redux's in a heartbeat for sure.
Same game, same plot, same everything with updated high rez graphics/textures. and sound... and maybe some minor game-play improvements.
I played the originals until my eyes bled I'd, loved them, and buy all three of the Redux's in a heartbeat for sure.
bunnyfubbles
Lifer
what they need to do is take whatever team did the ToR cinematic and actually flesh out KOTOR1 as a movie
coloumb
Diamond Member
Actually - there was an MMO in a galaxy far far away which was doing quite well until the developers decided "let's allow the players to be jedi then let's revamp the combat system!" because we know the game better than the paying customers... and thus sent the MMO in a downward spiral towards hell.
You can easily have a sandbox MMO work if you make a game that players like to play rather than ignoring them and try to force feed them into liking it.
I think the largest hurdle this MMO will have to overcome is that it's not a fantasy based game.
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