Star Trek Online - To Boldly Beta where No One Has Beta'd Before!

Page 9 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
21,131
3,667
126
LOL im actually done with the open beta.. and im waiting for live.

Theres going to be a character wipe, and im stuck at a point where if i try to advance, i wont make it in time by tomorrow.

Today i flew around in space marking stations down and where to buy items when it does go live.

The game really cant handle lag. The servers were constantly crashing over the weekend during peak hours.

Once u lag, your ship starts to do the moon walk every 10 seconds.
You also have a possibility of DCing in the middle of a mission, where your "Screwed" to do the entire segment all over again.

(not bad because you get repeat exp points).

The key thing in the game for those of you who didnt get to beta is DO MISSIONS.
You will get all the good starting weapons from the missions itself and not from the drops.

Currency until Cmdr is NOT important.
I found that again, you get all your IMBA eq from the missions directly.
*either drops or in creates*

Maybe after you reached Lt. Cmdr, its a good time to start selling stuff.
(Visit DS9!, a lot of nice toys are there for sale)

replicator sellling and merchant selling is the same thing... so use your replicator after every wave to get rid of junk.

You can not name your ship the same thing over and over again.. :(
I tried holding onto the name Nadeshiko but changed the registry to - A, -B , -C and it wouldnt let me save.

Umm Klingons... i will pick on a fleet of klingons with no problems, but 2 romulian warbirds (the old one, not the dedrix class) will RAPE me a new hole.

Its a fun game... and i cant wait for a restart.

Oh and when you see a pheniox in the game... your jaw just drops...
Those things should be labeled a Battleship instead a Advance Escort.

Crusiers u want arc cannons, while escorts you want photon torpedo and front mounted cannons.

Havent played with science vessels yet, however they seem to tank better then cruisers for some weird reason.
 
Last edited:

Raduque

Lifer
Aug 22, 2004
13,140
138
106
You can not name your ship the same thing over and over again.. :(
I tried holding onto the name Nadeshiko but changed the registry to - A, -B , -C and it wouldnt let me save.

You have to re-name the old ship. That's what I did with mine. My first ship was NCC-93990, my new ship was NCC-93990-A, but I had to rename the first ship to use the same name on the second.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
4,092
136
ugh

I have been debating on either pre odering this game or starting up eve again because I crave some space combat with some pew pew.... What do you guys think of this game after betaing it?

I'm still EVEing these days, but as a huge ST fan I'd also like to get a general feel from those in the Beta. I'd almost do the lifetime sub on my ST fandom alone, but I just don't want to see the game flop.
 

damocles

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,105
5
81
I had a look on some of the sites last night and decided to buy the digital edition on Steam. It should be fun for a short time and may get much better later on.

I see that they have some high end content to roll out after launch but it may be a bit repetitive after a while. It is interesting that most of this content will be based around five man groups.

I am still trying to get a handle on how ground combat works. Is it pretty quick and lethal (I.e. I shoot you with my phaser and you die) or do I have to keep blasting you based on your 'hps' or 'shields' etc?

Also, with all due respect to role-players and enthusiasts, some of the boards are a bit 'Trekkie-ish'. What is the playing community like?
 
Last edited:

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
It took me about a week to get a key and finally log on so I probably missed the worse parts, but I've only had about 3 crashes while playing. Generally these occur when changing maps during a mission. The latest was while doing what I believe I'd the main plot line campaign in the briar patch. I had done 2 segments in space and had just finished the ground party portion and it crashed while loading for the final space portion. I was afraid I'd have to do it all again, but got lucky and on reload it popped me right back at the final space sequence.

I've left me group play option open and had a rather fun one last night. I warped in at the same time as two other guys to find the mission just started by two others; they were finishing off a single tier 2 cruiser attacking an outpost. After he went down we had to defend from 5 more waves of attackers. Since there were now five of us in there the follow up waves were beefed up and we faced two battleships, two heavy cruisers and half a dozen light escorts with each wave. When you get in an engagement that large it's pretty impressive to watch the beams probing from vessel to vessel with torps dotting the sky.


Also was doing one of the go fight the klingon locations and had another guy in a tier 2 also on the map. Not sure if he found a loot drop or what, but he was releasing a batch of fighter shuttlecraft when engaging which was rather interesting to watch.


Guess today's the last day of beta but not sure when they're pulling the plug on the server. If I have a chance when I get home I'm going to warp over to the cardassian area and have a look at the other fed players, chatter on line last night was that there were a bunch of high level types there now playing and you could see the end tier ship models.


I also saw what I think was an actual klingon player in deep fed space (as opposed to the npc mini instance stuff) as it didn't say enemy contact as his identifier but actually listed a ship name. Wonder if there was any way to actually engage him?
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,675
146
106
www.neftastic.com
I've been playing regularly for the last week, trying to get a feel for it. I like the premise, but the execution is lacking. And then of course there's Cryptic itself...

Let me explain the last part first. Being an old City of Heroes/Villains veteran from the days when Cryptic was still responsible for its development, I jumped aboard the Champions Online bandwagon hoping for "City of Heroes 2" with somewhat better execution after all of the issues that made CoH garbage in my eyes. Following along CO's development, out comes the beta and things were niiiiiiice. It was fun; yes things needed a few tweaks and balance passes, but all in all it had a nice concept and feel to it. I pre-order the 6-month subscription at this point feeling like this is a game I could definitely play for 6 months if not more, and the STO Closed Beta key was a nice perk too.

Then it happened. (Are you paying attention folks? You should be, because this is likely to be exactly what happens to STO after launch...)

The game was ultimately rushed out the door in order to meet Atari's publishing deadline and start generating revenue. The beta testers all begged Cryptic to hold off and take more time. But they didn't, so we had the Day 0 patch. Champions Online was irrevocably altered for the worse with the Day 0 patch.

This patch did fix a few items, but more importantly it completely changed game play across the board for a metric shitton of power sets and builds. Basically everything was nerfed into oblivion in the name of PvP and dragging out content by slowing the pace down rather than putting in more content. Powers were utterly broken and/or no longer doing what they were originally designed to do. Over the course of the next month or so, there would literally be dozens more patches both fixing some of these ills, usually for the worse, or nerfing even more parts of the game.

Finally, after about 2 months, the patches and balancing pretty much just stopped. "Ooh, they fixed everything then?" you ask? Nope. They didn't. They dropped it like a cheap whore with an STD and shifted everybody to work on their next release title: Yup, you guessed it, Star Trek Online.

And then there were broken promises. The original pre-subscription purchases to Champions Online which supposedly included Priority Access to the Closed Beta (as soon as it's available), Cryptic also screwed it's customers over. For example, myself having been promised access had to wait nearly 2 and a half months from the start of the closed beta before receiving my closed beta key. Cryptic addressed this by stating the devs on the CO community forums that stated "As soon as the beta starts" was wrong, and also fixed the issue by updating the pre-subscription details, removing the "as soon as it's available" part.

There's no reason to not believe this exact same scenario will happen with STO. STO is being rushed out the door far before it should be, simply to make a publisher's marketing deadline. The game features about 1/2 of the content originally promised at launch, and is missing a lot of fundamentals still. Hell, even the core of the game isn't stable (should a game this far along crash every 15 minutes?). There are some bright spots, but the game is a shell of what it's supposed to be. There's been great strides in the last two weeks, but it's still not ready for a February 2nd launch date. Players agree, and have again urged Cryptic to back off and test/refine more. As usual, Cryptic refuses to listen (Hey, you guys are lucky STO got the crap implementation of bridges in the game).

Why is this likely to repeat itself? Cryptic has a full 3rd title already being worked on. Odds are it too will require another rush publishing release. The Champions Online folks were promised to have a full dev team working on it through and after release. Guess what... there's no one home.

---

Okay, now to STO itself. First, rush job. They're trying to get it out the door so that they can meet Atari's deadline and collect a bonus. Because of this, you can expect a similar Day 0 patch treatment that Champions Online got, fundamentally altering the entire game you thought you were playing.

Now, the mechanics. STO plays like a console game. That's all there is to it. In fact, don't be surprised when STO makes its way to the XBox.

There's very little depth or "content". They've just recently started adding in what seem to be mission trees/arcs, but just like Champions Online, their mission arcs are linear and pretty much take you in a straight line from level 1 to level X without letting you see the sights or take time in a given area. Patrol missions do force you to explore a bit per sector, but it's more of a choice to patrol versus do sector hopping. Mission depth is rather small, except on the larger arcs. Even then, a mission is broken up into stages. Really, this game absolutely shines on the huge away mission maps. These maps are perfect for team play or solo play both. Mobs everywhere, multiple objectives... they simply are great. The little random missions, not so much and very lacking. Beam to a planet with an entire away team... scan 5 objects and interact with nothing else (because there literally is nothing else to interact with). Yes, those are a variant on the "go collect X" quests, but really? You have a mission without any chance of incident that ends with mission text saying a saboteur was caught, but you never even see him?

All in all, away missions are underrated in the game. Everybody raves about the ship combat. Yeah, it's good. Away missions are equally as good - provided there's something to do. There's very little in terms of tactics though (this holds true for ship combat too). Beam down, find target, crouch and start blasting till everything is dead. No need really to find cover or get better position. It doesn't really make a difference.

Ship combat. As I said, EVERYBODY raves about the ship combat. What is it? Well, it's essentially Star Fleet Battles (old board game) or naturally by extension Star Fleet Command (old PC game, which was a rather faithful representation of the previously mentioned SFB) with more caveats: Energy and weapon management is extremely simplified to accomodate what are essentially "console" style controls - as I said, expect to see this game on the 360 if it garners enough reputation. It's pretty much a 3D space shooter, slowed down a good bit of course (hey, you got big ships moving around). That by no means is a bad thing. Think Wing Commander, but instead of a Scimitar, you're flying around the Concordia herself against other capital ships rather than fighters.

About the only real tactics in ship combat to be aware of is making sure you're putting a working shield up between you and your opponent(s), and making sure that you're getting yourself into position against said opponents weakest shield and taking them down. Pretty much that's what combat involves in real life too. I've gotten it down to more of a science personally, able to take out one if not two frigate class ships before they get to 5km of me. NPC cruisers and not much more difficult, and NPC battleships only become a nuisance because they are capable of regenerating their shields in an annoying efficient manner every couple minutes.

PvP combat shines somewhat in STO with one glaring issue: It's canned. Yup, battleground-style queued combat zones that have absolutely no impact on the game. Mind you, this is good in my eyes because I'm a PvE junky - and content is something that this game sorely lacks. However, the setting of this title is an all out war, and as such there will be some open PvP zones, but they will not affect any outcome of the game - this is the only reason I would have to partake in such tasks (at least in EVE, PvP can actually have a meaning - not that I'm saying EVE is better/worse, just saying). In PvP, things have indeed gotten a bit more balanced thankfully, through it's still skewed. And unfortunately, PvP balancing has major ramifications to PvE, and Cryptic has proven they do not know how best to handle both at the same time.

All in all, STO is a great platform - don't get me wrong, I find myself wanting to play this. But its implementation isn't great enough right now to warrant paying a subscription fee for, or more importantly justify the inflated lifetime subscription costs. If it's any indication, I played Champions Online for perhaps 6 weeks before I got bored and fed up. 6 weeks out of a 6 month subscription plus purchase cost of the game - which incidentally includes 30 days of game time. So 2 weeks of a 6 month subscription. I logged into Champions a few weeks back just to patch up. I wasn't on for more than 2 minutes, but I got a good look around. None of the Super Group I am part of were on, whereas back in the initial month there would routinely be a dozen or so people on. I didn't bother to look around the world, I just logged off with no desire to play.

One the novelty of Star Trek wears off, pretty sure that most people are going to put the game down within 3 months or so out of sheer boredom. That's the one thing Cryptic excels at: Lack of content. The only reason City of Heroes is still around is because it's the granddaddy of Super Hero MMOs. Not because of content.
 

heat901

Senior member
Dec 17, 2009
750
0
0
I've been playing regularly for the last week, trying to get a feel for it. I like the premise, but the execution is lacking. And then of course there's Cryptic itself...

Let me explain the last part first. Being an old City of Heroes/Villains veteran from the days when Cryptic was still responsible for its development, I jumped aboard the Champions Online bandwagon hoping for "City of Heroes 2" with somewhat better execution after all of the issues that made CoH garbage in my eyes. Following along CO's development, out comes the beta and things were niiiiiiice. It was fun; yes things needed a few tweaks and balance passes, but all in all it had a nice concept and feel to it. I pre-order the 6-month subscription at this point feeling like this is a game I could definitely play for 6 months if not more, and the STO Closed Beta key was a nice perk too.

Then it happened. (Are you paying attention folks? You should be, because this is likely to be exactly what happens to STO after launch...)

The game was ultimately rushed out the door in order to meet Atari's publishing deadline and start generating revenue. The beta testers all begged Cryptic to hold off and take more time. But they didn't, so we had the Day 0 patch. Champions Online was irrevocably altered for the worse with the Day 0 patch.

This patch did fix a few items, but more importantly it completely changed game play across the board for a metric shitton of power sets and builds. Basically everything was nerfed into oblivion in the name of PvP and dragging out content by slowing the pace down rather than putting in more content. Powers were utterly broken and/or no longer doing what they were originally designed to do. Over the course of the next month or so, there would literally be dozens more patches both fixing some of these ills, usually for the worse, or nerfing even more parts of the game.

Finally, after about 2 months, the patches and balancing pretty much just stopped. "Ooh, they fixed everything then?" you ask? Nope. They didn't. They dropped it like a cheap whore with an STD and shifted everybody to work on their next release title: Yup, you guessed it, Star Trek Online.

And then there were broken promises. The original pre-subscription purchases to Champions Online which supposedly included Priority Access to the Closed Beta (as soon as it's available), Cryptic also screwed it's customers over. For example, myself having been promised access had to wait nearly 2 and a half months from the start of the closed beta before receiving my closed beta key. Cryptic addressed this by stating the devs on the CO community forums that stated "As soon as the beta starts" was wrong, and also fixed the issue by updating the pre-subscription details, removing the "as soon as it's available" part.

There's no reason to not believe this exact same scenario will happen with STO. STO is being rushed out the door far before it should be, simply to make a publisher's marketing deadline. The game features about 1/2 of the content originally promised at launch, and is missing a lot of fundamentals still. Hell, even the core of the game isn't stable (should a game this far along crash every 15 minutes?). There are some bright spots, but the game is a shell of what it's supposed to be. There's been great strides in the last two weeks, but it's still not ready for a February 2nd launch date. Players agree, and have again urged Cryptic to back off and test/refine more. As usual, Cryptic refuses to listen (Hey, you guys are lucky STO got the crap implementation of bridges in the game).

Why is this likely to repeat itself? Cryptic has a full 3rd title already being worked on. Odds are it too will require another rush publishing release. The Champions Online folks were promised to have a full dev team working on it through and after release. Guess what... there's no one home.

---

Okay, now to STO itself. First, rush job. They're trying to get it out the door so that they can meet Atari's deadline and collect a bonus. Because of this, you can expect a similar Day 0 patch treatment that Champions Online got, fundamentally altering the entire game you thought you were playing.

Now, the mechanics. STO plays like a console game. That's all there is to it. In fact, don't be surprised when STO makes its way to the XBox.

There's very little depth or "content". They've just recently started adding in what seem to be mission trees/arcs, but just like Champions Online, their mission arcs are linear and pretty much take you in a straight line from level 1 to level X without letting you see the sights or take time in a given area. Patrol missions do force you to explore a bit per sector, but it's more of a choice to patrol versus do sector hopping. Mission depth is rather small, except on the larger arcs. Even then, a mission is broken up into stages. Really, this game absolutely shines on the huge away mission maps. These maps are perfect for team play or solo play both. Mobs everywhere, multiple objectives... they simply are great. The little random missions, not so much and very lacking. Beam to a planet with an entire away team... scan 5 objects and interact with nothing else (because there literally is nothing else to interact with). Yes, those are a variant on the "go collect X" quests, but really? You have a mission without any chance of incident that ends with mission text saying a saboteur was caught, but you never even see him?

All in all, away missions are underrated in the game. Everybody raves about the ship combat. Yeah, it's good. Away missions are equally as good - provided there's something to do. There's very little in terms of tactics though (this holds true for ship combat too). Beam down, find target, crouch and start blasting till everything is dead. No need really to find cover or get better position. It doesn't really make a difference.

Ship combat. As I said, EVERYBODY raves about the ship combat. What is it? Well, it's essentially Star Fleet Battles (old board game) or naturally by extension Star Fleet Command (old PC game, which was a rather faithful representation of the previously mentioned SFB) with more caveats: Energy and weapon management is extremely simplified to accomodate what are essentially "console" style controls - as I said, expect to see this game on the 360 if it garners enough reputation. It's pretty much a 3D space shooter, slowed down a good bit of course (hey, you got big ships moving around). That by no means is a bad thing. Think Wing Commander, but instead of a Scimitar, you're flying around the Concordia herself against other capital ships rather than fighters.

About the only real tactics in ship combat to be aware of is making sure you're putting a working shield up between you and your opponent(s), and making sure that you're getting yourself into position against said opponents weakest shield and taking them down. Pretty much that's what combat involves in real life too. I've gotten it down to more of a science personally, able to take out one if not two frigate class ships before they get to 5km of me. NPC cruisers and not much more difficult, and NPC battleships only become a nuisance because they are capable of regenerating their shields in an annoying efficient manner every couple minutes.

PvP combat shines somewhat in STO with one glaring issue: It's canned. Yup, battleground-style queued combat zones that have absolutely no impact on the game. Mind you, this is good in my eyes because I'm a PvE junky - and content is something that this game sorely lacks. However, the setting of this title is an all out war, and as such there will be some open PvP zones, but they will not affect any outcome of the game - this is the only reason I would have to partake in such tasks (at least in EVE, PvP can actually have a meaning - not that I'm saying EVE is better/worse, just saying). In PvP, things have indeed gotten a bit more balanced thankfully, through it's still skewed. And unfortunately, PvP balancing has major ramifications to PvE, and Cryptic has proven they do not know how best to handle both at the same time.

All in all, STO is a great platform - don't get me wrong, I find myself wanting to play this. But its implementation isn't great enough right now to warrant paying a subscription fee for, or more importantly justify the inflated lifetime subscription costs. If it's any indication, I played Champions Online for perhaps 6 weeks before I got bored and fed up. 6 weeks out of a 6 month subscription plus purchase cost of the game - which incidentally includes 30 days of game time. So 2 weeks of a 6 month subscription. I logged into Champions a few weeks back just to patch up. I wasn't on for more than 2 minutes, but I got a good look around. None of the Super Group I am part of were on, whereas back in the initial month there would routinely be a dozen or so people on. I didn't bother to look around the world, I just logged off with no desire to play.

One the novelty of Star Trek wears off, pretty sure that most people are going to put the game down within 3 months or so out of sheer boredom. That's the one thing Cryptic excels at: Lack of content. The only reason City of Heroes is still around is because it's the granddaddy of Super Hero MMOs. Not because of content.

So what you are saying is wait for the 10 day free trial?
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
So we can expect to be mainly playing an online version of sfc with multiple real players on your side and facing you, wow that would be terrible.


There some note about some end of beta thing today, they are going to pull the plug at 9est. Can't tell you the details as the dev guy apparently is a moron at weblinks and it just points to the main front page. But from the talk about it, seems there will be a hugh klingon npc attacking into fed space that you can join or fight against. What's unclear is if they are going to let everyone level up today to play with the big boys.
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,675
146
106
www.neftastic.com
So we can expect to be mainly playing an online version of sfc with multiple real players on your side and facing you, wow that would be terrible.

For $14.99/month + boxed product cost? Yeah, that's pretty terrible.

By the way, the full single player version of STO is available here. For free.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
SunnyD pretty much nailed it on the head. I got into closed beta, although not from applying or from a 6 month/life subscription from CO. Friends of mine did the CO 6month and got in to STO pretty early and let me try it on and off. Even back then, I knew where the game was heading.

I still find it humorous the comments people make like, "It is still Beta!!" as if those are the magical words that somehow will turn a crappy execution of a game into a good one on some magical release date.

Look here, I have played more MMOs and more MMO beta than perhaps most people on this board. I've been doing it since MUD and have done not only every major MMO release, but all the little ones that never made it and most people never even heard of. Including those dozens of Lineage clone style games. To summarize I am saying that I've been there and done that.

Once a game hits beta you are looking at a near finished product. I have yet to see a release version of a game that was significantly better than an "open" beta. Very rarely have I seen a release version better than a closed version. The ONLY exception I've seen where the release was better than a closed beta was for the original Everquest. I started in Phase 1 closed beta with 200 other people right after their initial internal Alpha phase. Everquest saw huge improvement every phase of closed beta, but then again, they waited several weeks to months before each phase.

Anyhow, this game is just another "par for the course" MMO release that just has a Star Trek "skin" on top for some flair. Nothing new, nothing spectacular, and quite a bit that is pure frustration and stupidity. Yes some people will enjoy it as many don't have the gaming experience I have had so they don't know any better. Pretty much this is why I have given up on MMOs.

I am only willing to give Bioware a chance with their Star Wars Knights of the Republic MMO as it is their first. I am hoping they do something but I won't be disappointed if they don't.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
That's a nice mountain you placing yourself on there skippy.


As for your vast mmo experience, WoW today is nothing like WoW at release, much less the even further different WoW in beta. The only thing that matters at this point is post launch development/maintenance. And given the IP in question here and the outside pressure that will undoubtedly come from it, pressure above and beyond the publisher level, I don't think they will be able to simply sit on the project much less content to do so.
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,675
146
106
www.neftastic.com
That's a nice mountain you placing yourself on there skippy.


As for your vast mmo experience, WoW today is nothing like WoW at release, much less the even further different WoW in beta. The only thing that matters at this point is post launch development/maintenance. And given the IP in question here and the outside pressure that will undoubtedly come from it, pressure above and beyond the publisher level, I don't think they will be able to simply sit on the project much less content to do so.
My opinion is only an opinion. I can't see the future, so you're correct in a sense. I am going from experience here however. :)

Yes, I know WoW isn't the same today. From what I hear it's worse (more of the same, which led me to quite a few years back). Again, that's opinion, and I'm not saying WoW is a bad game - I enjoyed it when I played, until I got bored with it which was a little over a year. Yes - a little over a YEAR... because it actually had that much content I could enjoy. Thing is, Blizzard took their sweet old time with WoW, just as they are with their other titles. They didn't give a shit when a publisher wanted their title out, they said, and I quote, "When it's ready." Yep, WoW's launch had issues. They all do.

But here we are, nearly 6 months after Champions Online's launch, and they've added one event as their content expansion, while summarily neglecting the game as a whole. It should be very telling that Champions Online could be had for under $20 within two months of launch.

Much of what has occurred during STO's beta exactly mirrors the development process of Champions Online. What incentive does one have to not think things will turn out very similar? You have to remember, publisher launch agreements can be just as lucrative as actual sales themselves. Cryptic has a vested interest in churning out as many games as possible as quickly as possible for this reason, as well as the reason that they push out subscription games - revenue! There's just no reason to think that events will repeat themselves.

As it stands, I admit yet again, I like the core of what is Star Trek Online. But I can already see the same thing happening as did with CO - it's about a month or two worth of genuine game play and content enjoyment before there's nothing left to do. This is absolutely not worthy of the boxed product + subscription cost. It's just not.
 

xCxStylex

Senior member
Apr 6, 2003
710
0
0
I appreciate Sunny's opinions.

While never having played a Cryptic game, I CAN NOT see two quality MMOs being released within 3 months of each other. Really??? I mean, if their development studio was the size of all of EAs, then maybe I could envision some quality games.

No one I know of is playing Champions online anymore.


Then it happened. (Are you paying attention folks? You should be, because this is likely to be exactly what happens to STO after launch...)

The game was ultimately rushed out the door in order to meet Atari's publishing deadline and start generating revenue. The beta testers all begged Cryptic to hold off and take more time. But they didn't, so we had the Day 0 patch. Champions Online was irrevocably altered for the worse with the Day 0 patch.

This patch did fix a few items, but more importantly it completely changed game play across the board for a metric shitton of power sets and builds. Basically everything was nerfed into oblivion in the name of PvP and dragging out content by slowing the pace down rather than putting in more content. Powers were utterly broken and/or no longer doing what they were originally designed to do. Over the course of the next month or so, there would literally be dozens more patches both fixing some of these ills, usually for the worse, or nerfing even more parts of the game.

Finally, after about 2 months, the patches and balancing pretty much just stopped. "Ooh, they fixed everything then?" you ask? Nope. They didn't. They dropped it like a cheap whore with an STD and shifted everybody to work on their next release title: Yup, you guessed it, Star Trek Online.

And then there were broken promises. The original pre-subscription purchases to Champions Online which supposedly included Priority Access to the Closed Beta (as soon as it's available), Cryptic also screwed it's customers over. For example, myself having been promised access had to wait nearly 2 and a half months from the start of the closed beta before receiving my closed beta key. Cryptic addressed this by stating the devs on the CO community forums that stated "As soon as the beta starts" was wrong, and also fixed the issue by updating the pre-subscription details, removing the "as soon as it's available" part.
\
 

Magusigne

Golden Member
Nov 21, 2007
1,550
0
76
Its definately NOT worth 60+14.99 a month.

Best scenario (for me anyways..and I'm a trekkie) is to wait it out 3 or so months (I've learned this from painful experiences with AoC/WAR/Aion) and wait for them to drop to initial software purchase...a 10 day trial..and simply the monthly rate.

Plus you can see if its spiraling into oblivion (which I bet it will be) before making an investment
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
I wasn't so much referring to you sunny as the schmuck who knows better cause he's played more games than we have.


As for the actual game at hand, I've been in very many 6 pc vs 6 dozen npc encounters and they've been very fun. You stagger away from the group letting yourself get picked off or charge into the next one before the group is ready and you'll get slaughtered, and there are still several aspects of ship combat they haven't implemented yet as I mentioned before, but it's easy to get lost into doing just simple space combat for a couple hours.

The biggest current hurdle I see they have is that while they have a large faction of players wanting to be kligon and go forth and kill, the faction is no where near as developed as the feds and while they are already trying balancing actions, it's not so easy when you can gear up your fed ship much quicker than your bird of prey.
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,675
146
106
www.neftastic.com
I wasn't so much referring to you sunny as the schmuck who knows better cause he's played more games than we have.


As for the actual game at hand, I've been in very many 6 pc vs 6 dozen npc encounters and they've been very fun. You stagger away from the group letting yourself get picked off or charge into the next one before the group is ready and you'll get slaughtered, and there are still several aspects of ship combat they haven't implemented yet as I mentioned before, but it's easy to get lost into doing just simple space combat for a couple hours.

The biggest current hurdle I see they have is that while they have a large faction of players wanting to be kligon and go forth and kill, the faction is no where near as developed as the feds and while they are already trying balancing actions, it's not so easy when you can gear up your fed ship much quicker than your bird of prey.

Ahh, gotcha. As far as PvP... at the beginning feds are woefully underpowered compared to base klingon ships.

Again, not saying it's not fun - I had a blast. But it's also not worth the price imho. At least not yet.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Guessing that the euros were having a hell of a time with the final day, enough that they crashed the servers. :)

Could be back up by now though as I haven't chcked the forum in over an hour.
 

allthatisman

Senior member
Dec 21, 2008
542
0
0
I just re-upped my Warhammer account via the free 10-day trial, but I am already kind of bored with it since so much of your leveling depends on PvP or "realm vs realm"... I am on destruction and tier 3 is woefully unbalanced right now(in Order's favor)... it just isn't fun. I am going to just level up to tier 4 and see if the end-game is better with WAR since I have never been that far... but so far balance issues are the pits. As far as polish goes, the game is awesome... IMO so much better than WoW. I want to hop in STO, but the quality issues and lack of content even at this stage is a major turn-off for a game that comes with a $75 initial price tag...
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
pretty sure I saw amazon had it on sale for like $47 with some gift card thing and that gives you a month of play.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
so they've also spawned a bunch of borg cubes/spheres for the final hours. Was in an instance with god only knows how many fed with a good smattering of klingon. A groups of 3 spheres had about 10 ships fighting them, so I get in range and join the fun. at least two of the bastards then decided I looked tasty and pretty much alpha striked me. ouch that hurt.
 

JoshGuru7

Golden Member
Aug 18, 2001
1,020
1
0
I wasn't so much referring to you sunny as the schmuck who knows better cause he's played more games than we have.
HumblePie may have sounded a little arrogant (oh, the irony!), but I thought he was making his way toward an excellent point. Ultimately, the decision as to whether to purchase a MMO should be judged on the quality of the MMO at the time rather than speculation about how it will get better in the future. Every lackluster MMO at launch has grand plans for the future and it just doesn't happen for most of them due to the ability for hordes of MMO gamer lemmings to parrot the same snap judgement their favorite reviewer made.

As for the actual game at hand, I've been in very many 6 pc vs 6 dozen npc encounters and they've been very fun. You stagger away from the group letting yourself get picked off or charge into the next one before the group is ready and you'll get slaughtered, and there are still several aspects of ship combat they haven't implemented yet as I mentioned before, but it's easy to get lost into doing just simple space combat for a couple hours.
I think this is where the wider range of available MMOs comes into play because inherently MMOs ARE fun. Working together with a bunch of friends to accomplish goals is something developers have to work hard at in order to mess up. I'm sure that STO has moments that are a blast and if the question was "Play STO or nothing?" then STO would be the easy answer.

The problem (or benefit?) is that all of the other MMOs out there have many of the same moments that STO does. For the end consumer, the question is not whether STO is fun but whether it is more fun than WoW, Aion, LOTRO, AoC, WAR, DDO, Global Agenda, and so on. This question is where SunnyD's comments about the rushed production and limited content at release of STO are very influential because it results in a decision to stick with other MMOs for the time being at least until STO does indeed make the promised improvements.
 

Hey Zeus

Banned
Dec 31, 2009
780
0
0
Could someone tell me where i would need to go to upgrade the weapons on my starship? I'm getting sick of the regular photon torpedo's when i see everyone with quantum ones.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
I wasn't so much referring to you sunny as the schmuck who knows better cause he's played more games than we have.


As for the actual game at hand, I've been in very many 6 pc vs 6 dozen npc encounters and they've been very fun. You stagger away from the group letting yourself get picked off or charge into the next one before the group is ready and you'll get slaughtered, and there are still several aspects of ship combat they haven't implemented yet as I mentioned before, but it's easy to get lost into doing just simple space combat for a couple hours.

The biggest current hurdle I see they have is that while they have a large faction of players wanting to be kligon and go forth and kill, the faction is no where near as developed as the feds and while they are already trying balancing actions, it's not so easy when you can gear up your fed ship much quicker than your bird of prey.

Hrmm... I was just giving out my credentials for why I have my own informed opinion. If you don't believe me, I can take a quick of the MMO bookcase I have with nothing but MMO games I've bought after release. It's about 6 shelves with 20ish games per shelf.

I didn't exactly blast or single out a specific game in my post above as someone else noted. I just was pointing out how so far every company as a whole has developed MMOs. Yes even WoW was in my opinion terrible in beta and release. I was deadset against buying it but because of lots of friends jumping on board I did as well for a bit. Pretty much like every other MMO I've ended up playing for a bit. Most of them I don't play for a month and two and quit. Some I do, but most give I end up playing for a longer time. Most of time I'm rotating between games with my free time. Even after I quit, I've gone back and revisited a large portion of the games I've tried at usually 6month, 1 year, and if they survived the 2 year interval. I have had high hopes for many games, but most fall into the EA/Cryptic category lately of rushing whatever they can out the door and moving on the the next product after the hype generated enough revenue to keep the momentum going.

I was just saying that this is a major and discouraging trend and STO right now is par for the course. Meaning if you have been disappointed with MMOs that fail to meet their promises, then this game isn't any really different from a game perspective. Now, if you want to play STO just to romp around in a Star Trek game because there isn't any other modern Star Trek game out there then this might be your cup of tea. It is still a MMO and you can still socialize somewhat.

I also was trying to nip in the bud that absurd argument I always hear/read when one makes critical comments about a game in beta. That being that the game is "In beta!" As if those two words make everything so far acceptable. As if any game during a beta made a complete 180 prior to or on release date. The fact is, I've yet to experience or hear of a single game that actually made good on it's promises at release time. Now, did some games evolve enough after release to become fairly good games years down the road? Sure, but it took a whole lot of time. Personally, I would rather wait out the time for a game to become decent before sinking money into it.
 
Last edited:

Raduque

Lifer
Aug 22, 2004
13,140
138
106
so they've also spawned a bunch of borg cubes/spheres for the final hours. Was in an instance with god only knows how many fed with a good smattering of klingon. A groups of 3 spheres had about 10 ships fighting them, so I get in range and join the fun. at least two of the bastards then decided I looked tasty and pretty much alpha striked me. ouch that hurt.

Everything is ridiculously high-level. I'm waiting out the last few minutes of the beta at the Wolf 359 memorial.
 

Hey Zeus

Banned
Dec 31, 2009
780
0
0
so they've also spawned a bunch of borg cubes/spheres for the final hours. Was in an instance with god only knows how many fed with a good smattering of klingon. A groups of 3 spheres had about 10 ships fighting them, so I get in range and join the fun. at least two of the bastards then decided I looked tasty and pretty much alpha striked me. ouch that hurt.

I'm missing THE BORG? NOOOOOOOOOO