Star Citizen Development Discussion (Is Derek Smart Right?)

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Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,173
550
136
Not sure when this will ever be out officially. That said, I have had some fun the last few patches.Sure it isn't a complete game yet, but there is fun to be had with it. The flight model is pretty good at this point, and it is a lot of fun (once you get to a fight). Bugs will be for now, but most are not much worse than what you get in a Fallout/Elder Scrolls/Cyberpunk 2077...

If you don't own already and don't want to take a chance, just wait it out. If you own it already and havn't played it in a while, I suggest downloading the latest version and do some catch up. There are a couple good videos on youtube to get you started with the current state of the persistant universe (i.e. some basic, go here, make sure you buy one or two of these type things as they will keep you alive and/or get you a usable weapon/armor/ammo that you will need, etc., and go over the basics for controls, missions, etc).

I also suggest watching some of those videos to the people who keep putting this game down. Yes, it isn't out yet. Yes, it is much later than originally promised. Yes, it cost a lot more than they anticipated. Yes, a lot of the reason for the increased costs was due to bad management/direction by Chris Roberts. Yes, it has bugs. But, YES it is fun, and that is the whole point.
How accessible is it? I heard that unless you spend a lot of time watching videos and reading docs you'll spend too much time not having any clue what to do, or where to go. No clue how true the statement is, but as games like this depend (well.. most games like this that aren't in perpetual development) depend on new players it made me wonder.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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How accessible is it? I heard that unless you spend a lot of time watching videos and reading docs you'll spend too much time not having any clue what to do, or where to go. No clue how true the statement is, but as games like this depend (well.. most games like this that aren't in perpetual development) depend on new players it made me wonder.
My experience last year was walking around was pretty accessible, flying was not.
These are just my opinions your experience may be different.
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,758
285
126
How accessible is it? I heard that unless you spend a lot of time watching videos and reading docs you'll spend too much time not having any clue what to do, or where to go. No clue how true the statement is, but as games like this depend (well.. most games like this that aren't in perpetual development) depend on new players it made me wonder.
The flight model is really a sim. As a sim, it is as complex as a sim can be. There are some automated assist things to try and help out with the flight controls (i.e. brings "space flight" to more like "atmospheric flight"), but for those that really want to take advantage of what a true space flight physics allows, you can typically do so if you understand the controls (and have actual controls yourself to be able to do so).

Think of it like Microsoft Flight Sim, or Digital Combat Simulator World level of complexity. It is a true skill based system that will take some time to learn the skills (but for people who have some basic skills from other flight sims, or real life experience, a lot of that can apply and help cut the learning curve).

The walking around is just like pretty much any other FPS, so you should already be pretty well familiar with it and can adapt to the specifics of the gameplay in this game's universe. But the flight part will take some practice. I am absolutely not that is good by any means with the flight, but I still find it fun.

If you really want to get good and take full advantage, I highly suggest dual sticks, mouse, and flight pedals for controls. Yes, most people can get by with an Xbox controller, but it won't let you take full advantage of the 6 degrees of freedom for control surfaces that you need for a space flight sim. You essentially have the same controlability as a helicopter does (and a little more, but you can effectively fly in one direction, while pointed in a completely different one, and you may want to be able to still control the direction of your thrust, pitch, roll at any point in time to pull off the most complex of manuveours).

Personally I wish there were better flight sticks that are designed for space flight sim at this point. What you really need is something that has an analog thumbstick (like on an Xbox/PS controller) on a flightstick with z-axis twist capability, as well as foot pedals and a mouse. This way you can control all 6 degrees of motion with the single stick and pedals and still have your hand on the mouse for controlling gimballed/turreted weapons (and quick change over from flight to FPS controls since you just need to move the one hand from the flight stick to the keyboard). You will also probably want some kind of voice control as well, using something like VoiceAttack to setup macros and perform things that would otherwise be multiple keyboard inputs (as well as inputs that you might not remember the keyboard controls to perform, but you know what you want to do so you can basically say something like "balance shields", "all power to thrusters", or "stealth mode", etc...
 

Dranoche

Senior member
Jul 6, 2009
257
44
91
The flight model is really a sim. As a sim, it is as complex as a sim can be. There are some automated assist things to try and help out with the flight controls (i.e. brings "space flight" to more like "atmospheric flight"), but for those that really want to take advantage of what a true space flight physics allows, you can typically do so if you understand the controls (and have actual controls yourself to be able to do so).

Think of it like Microsoft Flight Sim, or Digital Combat Simulator World level of complexity. It is a true skill based system that will take some time to learn the skills (but for people who have some basic skills from other flight sims, or real life experience, a lot of that can apply and help cut the learning curve).

The walking around is just like pretty much any other FPS, so you should already be pretty well familiar with it and can adapt to the specifics of the gameplay in this game's universe. But the flight part will take some practice. I am absolutely not that is good by any means with the flight, but I still find it fun.

If you really want to get good and take full advantage, I highly suggest dual sticks, mouse, and flight pedals for controls. Yes, most people can get by with an Xbox controller, but it won't let you take full advantage of the 6 degrees of freedom for control surfaces that you need for a space flight sim. You essentially have the same controlability as a helicopter does (and a little more, but you can effectively fly in one direction, while pointed in a completely different one, and you may want to be able to still control the direction of your thrust, pitch, roll at any point in time to pull off the most complex of manuveours).

Personally I wish there were better flight sticks that are designed for space flight sim at this point. What you really need is something that has an analog thumbstick (like on an Xbox/PS controller) on a flightstick with z-axis twist capability, as well as foot pedals and a mouse. This way you can control all 6 degrees of motion with the single stick and pedals and still have your hand on the mouse for controlling gimballed/turreted weapons (and quick change over from flight to FPS controls since you just need to move the one hand from the flight stick to the keyboard). You will also probably want some kind of voice control as well, using something like VoiceAttack to setup macros and perform things that would otherwise be multiple keyboard inputs (as well as inputs that you might not remember the keyboard controls to perform, but you know what you want to do so you can basically say something like "balance shields", "all power to thrusters", or "stealth mode", etc...
VKB offers a fighter jet grip with 2 analog sticks and a space grip with a single analog stick for their higher end Gunfighter base. The space grip is available in left and right-hand versions and has a lockable twist axis. Their lower end Gladiator NXT is offered in left and right-hand versions of the space grip with twist axis but you presently cannot swap out grips on the Gladiator base. VKB currently has several throttle quadrant combinations but no fighter jet style throttle grip. They are developing a fighter throttle with rotating lever, and have indicated that they intend to eventually offer a linear sliding rail version. An analog stick is expected on the throttle. Don't hold your breath though if you need a throttle, no telling when we'll actually get it.

Virpil currently offers a space grip with a single analog stick, available in left and right-hand versions and with lockable twist axis. They have a lower end base but unlike VKB's offerings, all of their grips work on both bases. Virpil also has a throttle with a single analog stick.

For space sims in which you need an analog stick on your joystick, VKB and Virpil are really the only options. If you can go without the analog stick and don't want to spend the money for VKB or Virpil, I would recommend CH Products gear if you can find it or Thrustmaster T.16000M stick and TWCS throttle. I wouldn't bother with anything else from Thrustmaster unless you want a specific product for a specific sim experience, and I wouldn't bother with Logitech either.
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,173
550
136
The flight model is really a sim. As a sim, it is as complex as a sim can be. There are some automated assist things to try and help out with the flight controls (i.e. brings "space flight" to more like "atmospheric flight"), but for those that really want to take advantage of what a true space flight physics allows, you can typically do so if you understand the controls (and have actual controls yourself to be able to do so).

Think of it like Microsoft Flight Sim, or Digital Combat Simulator World level of complexity. It is a true skill based system that will take some time to learn the skills (but for people who have some basic skills from other flight sims, or real life experience, a lot of that can apply and help cut the learning curve).

The walking around is just like pretty much any other FPS, so you should already be pretty well familiar with it and can adapt to the specifics of the gameplay in this game's universe. But the flight part will take some practice. I am absolutely not that is good by any means with the flight, but I still find it fun.

If you really want to get good and take full advantage, I highly suggest dual sticks, mouse, and flight pedals for controls. Yes, most people can get by with an Xbox controller, but it won't let you take full advantage of the 6 degrees of freedom for control surfaces that you need for a space flight sim. You essentially have the same controlability as a helicopter does (and a little more, but you can effectively fly in one direction, while pointed in a completely different one, and you may want to be able to still control the direction of your thrust, pitch, roll at any point in time to pull off the most complex of manuveours).

Personally I wish there were better flight sticks that are designed for space flight sim at this point. What you really need is something that has an analog thumbstick (like on an Xbox/PS controller) on a flightstick with z-axis twist capability, as well as foot pedals and a mouse. This way you can control all 6 degrees of motion with the single stick and pedals and still have your hand on the mouse for controlling gimballed/turreted weapons (and quick change over from flight to FPS controls since you just need to move the one hand from the flight stick to the keyboard). You will also probably want some kind of voice control as well, using something like VoiceAttack to setup macros and perform things that would otherwise be multiple keyboard inputs (as well as inputs that you might not remember the keyboard controls to perform, but you know what you want to do so you can basically say something like "balance shields", "all power to thrusters", or "stealth mode", etc...

Not that I disagree with anything you've said, or it's at all wrong as I haven't played it so what the hell do I know?? I do think that the bolded line of "if you really want to get good buy a bunch of extra equipment" pretty much sums up how accessible it might be. I get that this is a Premium Brand.. as much as a crowd sourced project can be, but wow.
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,758
285
126
Not that I disagree with anything you've said, or it's at all wrong as I haven't played it so what the hell do I know?? I do think that the bolded line of "if you really want to get good buy a bunch of extra equipment" pretty much sums up how accessible it might be. I get that this is a Premium Brand.. as much as a crowd sourced project can be, but wow.
All I can say is welcome to flight sims. Most people that play flight sims will already own this stuff (and then some, like head/eye tracking, button/display consoles, thrust/throttles, and VR/AR helmets, but VR/AR support in this game is still a work in progress).

But again, it can all be done with a mouse and keyboard, or an Xbox style controller (which is what was primarily used by the developers initially). The more complex control setups just allow for more complex control (things that most people will probably not need to ever do can be done with these more advanced control setups).
 

Dranoche

Senior member
Jul 6, 2009
257
44
91
Not that I disagree with anything you've said, or it's at all wrong as I haven't played it so what the hell do I know?? I do think that the bolded line of "if you really want to get good buy a bunch of extra equipment" pretty much sums up how accessible it might be. I get that this is a Premium Brand.. as much as a crowd sourced project can be, but wow.
Most if not all of the best PVPers in Elite Dangerous use mouse and keyboard over other setups for the aiming precision, despite a potential loss in other maneuverability. The general consensus is that mouse is better, but a lot of players and possibly most players overall use HOTAS or at least a joystick for immersion. The flight model in Elite is a mix of realistic and unrealistic mechanics, kind of like airplanes in space. It's pretty well suited to a HOTAS/pedals setup but mouse and keyboard still seems to have the advantage in PVP.

With Star Citizen's flight model I feel like the potential aiming advantage of a mouse is probably greater than in Elite, but the deficiency in control over the rest of your movement is also greater if you're still using keyboard as well. The flight model differences are probably why you see a lot of Star Citizen players recommending dual sticks or stick and mouse when people ask about the most effective setup. However, what most people actually use is all over the place. CIG has done a number of polls over the years and they've come back evenly split to mostly mouse to mostly joystick. Full HOTAS usually sits relatively low.

In the end though you play with what you have or what you want. You don't get the extra gear to be good, you get it because it's fun.
 

Artorias

Golden Member
Feb 8, 2014
1,762
994
136
Well this kind of flew under the radar.


chief operating officer Carl Jones said that by that time(2026). he expected the company to be in development on multiple sequels to Squadron 42, the long-awaited and much-delayed single-player story adventure featuring Hollywood stars.
Squadron 42 is currently seven years behind its original delivery target.
Lol. They haven't even finished the first game and they want multiple sequels in development?

Have they started milking the NFT craze yet? They're going to need a lot more dough to hire an additional 600 more developers by 2026.....

When is this house of cards going to collapse already.
 
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shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
81,411
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I am so friggen glad I only purchased the basic package, and it was discounted at the time.
People who invested tens of thousands into this game are chumps.

No seriously, how many customers have died waiting on this god damn release?
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
23,003
5,070
136
When is this house of cards going to collapse already
Surprised it hasn't gone tits-up a long time ago. :rolleyes:

Have to say I feel sorry for anyone who dumped a lot of cash into this debacle .... the last thing in the world this project needs is more complexity.

Heck I won't even pre-order a AAA title before seeing extensive reviews of the finished product anymore so not sure what you were thinking paying these clowns literally years (decades?) in advance.
 
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Artorias

Golden Member
Feb 8, 2014
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Surprised it hasn't gone tits-up a long time ago. :rolleyes:

Have to say I feel sorry for anyone who dumped a lot of cash into this debacle .... the last thing in the world this project needs is more complexity.

Heck I won't even pre-order a AAA title before seeing extensive reviews of the finished product anymore so not sure what you were thinking paying these clowns literally years (decades?) in advance.
Chris probably feels like he is James Cameron or something, except the later has an extensive track record and is on course to release 4 Avatar sequels in the next 6 years.
 
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Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
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I'll give credit where it's due. They somehow keep growing. I would have thought by now they'd have already cratered and laid everyone employed off. The fact they're opening a larger place and more than doubling their staff shows I was wrong.. of course they haven't done it yet, only talked about it... which is pretty much all they do. Talk about stuff.. for years and years. Apparently over 7 years for the single player game they swore would be released by now..
 
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Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,144
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The entertainment value in reading about this someday title is really top notch. Chris Roberts is astonishing, especially considering he wasn't buried in litigation years ago. The man's true future is in Hollywood.
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,758
285
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The entertainment value in reading about this someday title is really top notch. Chris Roberts is astonishing, especially considering he wasn't buried in litigation years ago. The man's true future is in Hollywood.
That was his past (after initial hits in the game industry in the 90s). Unfortunately he had a box office flop on a movie that I thought was really pretty good, but was just bad luck/no marketing/bad timing/no support from the studios (I am talking "Outlander" for those that do not know, which got pushed to a mid/late January release (after the holidays) and only in 81 theaters across the USA, so no wonder it had abysmal box office numbers).
 

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