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Star Citizen Development Discussion (Is Derek Smart Right?)

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rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,612
101
106
Last I read, they're still pulling in crazy amount of money still, in the range of 2-4 million a month by selling these ship designs. It's just crazy to me.
They are and it's amazing. But....they're also up to over 500 employees across 5 studios.

The clock is ticking on this company.

They need to ship Squadron 42 to survive (in my opinion). Beta for that game is supposed to be 2Q 2020. There is no way they make that...........................
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,086
366
136
As someone who wades into the Star Citizen forums frequently (I can't help myself, I admit it - it's like driving down the highway and passing a car wreck - curiosity wins), I think I can answer the "why".

Nostalgia really does play a big part. Lots of these whales were kids when Chris Roberts released his Wing Commander games. They spent many hours playing those games and want that enjoyment back. They're now adults with jobs....CIG is promising them the fountain of youth.
I agree that it starts with a nostalgia, but at this point it's drifted away from that. There are now other games that would scratch the itch. These 'whales' are way past normal what I would consider a nostalgia driven support level. They've gone into hero worship (from the forum stuff I've seen) on CR and the game. I don't understand that transition from nostalgia driven love into what I would call a cult level support of a product/company/person.
 

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,612
101
106
I agree that it starts with a nostalgia, but at this point it's drifted away from that. There are now other games that would scratch the itch. These 'whales' are way past normal what I would consider a nostalgia driven support level. They've gone into hero worship (from the forum stuff I've seen) on CR and the game. I don't understand that transition from nostalgia driven love into what I would call a cult level support of a product/company/person.
Oh I completely agree. I call them "Defenders of the Faith".

If I got nothing more out of the $85 I've spent on this project, this look into cult-like behavior has been money well-spent (well, kinda....I still want a frickin' video game).
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,402
3,941
126
As someone who wades into the Star Citizen forums frequently (I can't help myself, I admit it - it's like driving down the highway and passing a car wreck - curiosity wins), I think I can answer the "why".

Nostalgia really does play a big part. Lots of these whales were kids when Chris Roberts released his Wing Commander games. They spent many hours playing those games and want that enjoyment back. They're now adults with jobs....CIG is promising them the fountain of youth.
They would promise an actual fountain of youth if they could get away with it.
 

aigomorla

Cases and Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
18,522
1,152
126
I really have absolutely no clue on how this company is winging more money from people.
The game is super over due / late.
Had it been any publisher, they would of can'd the entire project / fired the staff and so on.

It almost litterally feels like a cult meeting, where you just blindy give money and eventually or hopefully, you somehow progress into some form of deity.
Oh wait maybe you can buy a Deity option in this game too.
 

zink77

Member
Jan 16, 2012
98
11
71
I really have absolutely no clue on how this company is winging more money from people.
Man you haven't been paying attention to the last 20 years of gaming.

1997 - Electronic arts as a part of the greater silicon valley company war on software ownership rebrands PC RPG's as mmo's, takes the next ultima and simply calls it "ultima online" and then ultima rpg's you own on the pc mysteriously disappear.

The public fell for mmo's - paying a subscription for a game you don't own. The rest was inevitable after game company ceo's realized the average gamer were stupid beyond all comprehension.

That's what gave birth to steam, mmo's, f2p and mobile gacha gambling games. Also TF2 with hats.

The fact that we have 'in game economies' is pretty sickening on its own. DRM is corporate PR for stealing your software and selling incomplete games. This stuff has been going on for 20 years now and everyone bent over for WoW and steam. And that was 20 years ago.

If anything our species is too gullible and stupid. The internet gave super powers to software companies to steal software since their customers are trapped a half a world away.
 

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,612
101
106
I really have absolutely no clue on how this company is winging more money from people.
The game is super over due / late.
Had it been any publisher, they would of can'd the entire project / fired the staff and so on.

It almost litterally feels like a cult meeting, where you just blindy give money and eventually or hopefully, you somehow progress into some form of deity.
Oh wait maybe you can buy a Deity option in this game too.
To be clear, not just one game is "super over due".

Two games are.

Squadron 42 (single player)
Star Citizen (Multi player)

That makes this cult-like behavior doubly amazing!
 

NTMBK

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2011
9,154
2,376
136
Man you haven't been paying attention to the last 20 years of gaming.

1997 - Electronic arts as a part of the greater silicon valley company war on software ownership rebrands PC RPG's as mmo's, takes the next ultima and simply calls it "ultima online" and then ultima rpg's you own on the pc mysteriously disappear.

The public fell for mmo's - paying a subscription for a game you don't own. The rest was inevitable after game company ceo's realized the average gamer were stupid beyond all comprehension.

That's what gave birth to steam, mmo's, f2p and mobile gacha gambling games. Also TF2 with hats.

The fact that we have 'in game economies' is pretty sickening on its own. DRM is corporate PR for stealing your software and selling incomplete games. This stuff has been going on for 20 years now and everyone bent over for WoW and steam. And that was 20 years ago.

If anything our species is too gullible and stupid. The internet gave super powers to software companies to steal software since their customers are trapped a half a world away.
Oh Christ, not this again.
 

zink77

Member
Jan 16, 2012
98
11
71
It is also not your concern
It is, the internet allowed game companies to steal games and the masses fell all over themselves to buy fraudulently coded games. There's no reason for any piece of software to require a second computer. Having part of the game you are paying for missing and held hostage on a remote computer is fraud. The fact you all think this is wonderful is what's alarming. Watching my privacy to own my own software and not be spied on in software like games in windows 10 because people who weren't so bright got internet is pretty alarming.

You're being defrauded of your basic rights to privacy and having a complete functional application run from your machine.
 

aigomorla

Cases and Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
18,522
1,152
126
You guys are allowed to disagree and debate, but personal attacks will not be tolerated.

PC Gaming Moderator
Aigomorla.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
104,941
19,636
136
It is, the internet allowed game companies to steal games and the masses fell all over themselves to buy fraudulently coded games. There's no reason for any piece of software to require a second computer. Having part of the game you are paying for missing and held hostage on a remote computer is fraud. The fact you all think this is wonderful is what's alarming. Watching my privacy to own my own software and not be spied on in software like games in windows 10 because people who weren't so bright got internet is pretty alarming.

You're being defrauded of your basic rights to privacy and having a complete functional application run from your machine.
Sorry, that is not fraud. It simply isn't.
 

zink77

Member
Jan 16, 2012
98
11
71
Sorry, that is not fraud. It simply isn't.
It is, when steam dropped in 2004 no one wanted it, it was forced into the software.
Steam is a piece of corporate malware. The internet has undermined the market, before the internet existed companies were forced to give us complete software. Operating systems and games. So yes selling you an incomplete piece of software is fraud. You and the rest of the people on this forum defending anti-consumer policies are delusional. Your rational interest is to get more software for less money, not get less software for more money.

So having companies control your machine, OS and games and whether you can access them is about the dumbest thing a person can do. You've just sold yourself into serfdom. We've gone from owning and controlling applications outright to corporations now having the ability to shut down remotely the software and apps we are puchasing. Something a disturbingly stupid and ignorant public would accept.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
104,941
19,636
136
It is, when steam dropped in 2004 no one wanted it, it was forced into the software.
Steam is a piece of corporate malware. The internet has undermined the market, before the internet existed companies were forced to give us complete software. Operating systems and games. So yes selling you an incomplete piece of software is fraud. You and the rest of the people on this forum defending anti-consumer policies are delusional. Your rational interest is to get more software for less money, not get less software for more money.

So having companies control your machine, OS and games and whether you can access them is about the dumbest thing a person can do. You've just sold yourself into serfdom. We've gone from owning and controlling applications outright to corporations now having the ability to shut down remotely the software and apps we are puchasing. Something a disturbingly stupid and ignorant public would accept.
I'm still convinced that you don't even know what fraud is. None of this is actually fraud.
 
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BudAshes

Lifer
Jul 20, 2003
12,816
1,723
126
It is, when steam dropped in 2004 no one wanted it, it was forced into the software.
Steam is a piece of corporate malware. The internet has undermined the market, before the internet existed companies were forced to give us complete software. Operating systems and games. So yes selling you an incomplete piece of software is fraud. You and the rest of the people on this forum defending anti-consumer policies are delusional. Your rational interest is to get more software for less money, not get less software for more money.

So having companies control your machine, OS and games and whether you can access them is about the dumbest thing a person can do. You've just sold yourself into serfdom. We've gone from owning and controlling applications outright to corporations now having the ability to shut down remotely the software and apps we are puchasing. Something a disturbingly stupid and ignorant public would accept.
Big budget games are huge corporations now. It's not a handful of people anymore working on these games in some small studio. The world you want to live in is not realistic with the kinds of budgets these games have now. I think the current gaming market is actually quite friendly these days for gamers.

On the other hand, line of business applications have turned to the total and utter rip off model for small businesses. They charge incredible subscription fees and use lawyers to crush competition making their buggy products your only option. Adobe even has gone as far as to threaten sue people using old versions of their software. That shit is out of control and is very difficult to navigate for business owners that aren't tech savvy.
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,086
366
136
It is, when steam dropped in 2004 no one wanted it, it was forced into the software.
Steam is a piece of corporate malware. The internet has undermined the market, before the internet existed companies were forced to give us complete software. Operating systems and games. So yes selling you an incomplete piece of software is fraud. You and the rest of the people on this forum defending anti-consumer policies are delusional. Your rational interest is to get more software for less money, not get less software for more money.

So having companies control your machine, OS and games and whether you can access them is about the dumbest thing a person can do. You've just sold yourself into serfdom. We've gone from owning and controlling applications outright to corporations now having the ability to shut down remotely the software and apps we are puchasing. Something a disturbingly stupid and ignorant public would accept.
I agree with your history on Steam. It wasn't something I wanted and I remember quite clearly it was something people raged about having to use. It did evolve into a marketplace that people like, but I personally don't think it's that great. To each their own..

On the subject of games.. you seem to have some golden nostalgia coloring how the world was before the internet. Games were complete-ish, and while they didn't have DLC (and I think that's a whole different issues) they were often very buggy on the PC. I can't remember how many games I played that crashed randomly, no matter what I tried. The fixes would come in patches, but often those patches weren't compatible to save games and I would have either just walk away or start over. The internet has IMHO improved how stable games are. I don't believe they're shipping any sooner than they used to, except in some cases, which could also apply to games "back in the day". If you've ever had to deal with Sin when it was released you might know what I speak of. It wasn't stable for months and every time a patch was released you had to start over.

If you want to complain about DLC, I'm kind of with you. I don't care for it as it just feels like I'm paying for a level or two.. which seems a bit of an ask when I've bought the whole game. Having said that.. I also remember 'back in the day' paying for over priced map packs for games like Quake.. so again.. while I think it sucks, I don't really see the big difference from then to now. The only place I can really see it is when you're sharing the games. When activation came into the scene there went borrowing a game and playing at the same time as your buddy.. they have another name for that.. Regardless of right or wrong of when you should be paying for something, my point on yesterday wasn't anywhere near as good as your post wants to make it seem. YMMV
 

zink77

Member
Jan 16, 2012
98
11
71
Big budget games are huge corporations now. It's not a handful of people anymore working on these games in some small studio.

You're just making excuses for corporate theft of software. Note that we are paying money, if they were giving the game away for free that would be different. But if we are buying a game we get the thing we are paying for.

Note that everyone arguing against can only do so because the internet enabled companies to cheat the population from comfort and safety. For the first 30 years of computing we were doing just fine getting complete files on discs.

If portal technology existed, DRM like steam wouldn't exist because you could storm the company when they tried to steal the thing. Valve and the game industry knew exactly what they were doing when they moved games from local applications to mainframe - client model of gaming. They knew no one could touch them. They could sit in the middle of the continent and defraud everyone with push button technology the internet enabled. So they could just force the policy.

There's no reason for any app or game to be divided between two computers especially when you are paying. Basic human rights and consumer rights to own the stuff we buy and not be spied on by our OS and games.

This world of being monitored everywhere we go that people accept is just proof humanity is stupid.

The reality is there is no way to hold these companies accountable for their bad behavior because the are 100's of miles away, that's why they get away with these anti consumer practices.
 
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