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Star Citizen Development Discussion (Is Derek Smart Right?)

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TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
22,991
2,252
136
Just checking in to see what's going on.. Still sounds like nothing. Boy am I glad I cut and run when I did. Made a few bucks profit, too. It is a shame, though, there was such potential.
 

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,550
81
91
Just checking in to see what's going on.. Still sounds like nothing. Boy am I glad I cut and run when I did. Made a few bucks profit, too. It is a shame, though, there was such potential.
I think there is still potential that Squadron 42 will be a fun game with an interesting story. As for the multiplayer Star Citizen....there is potential there too. But they have a lot of technical and design hurdles to overcome to make that happen. And if SQ42 isn't a success, I don't see how they pay for the development to overcome those hurdles.....
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
22,991
2,252
136
I think there is still potential that Squadron 42 will be a fun game with an interesting story. As for the multiplayer Star Citizen....there is potential there too. But they have a lot of technical and design hurdles to overcome to make that happen. And if SQ42 isn't a success, I don't see how they pay for the development to overcome those hurdles.....
There's still no official release date for Squadron 42 though, right? 2020 TBD?
 

Dannar26

Senior member
Mar 13, 2012
683
26
91
IIRC, didn't they want the flight model to be the same between Start Citizen and Squadron 42? They haven't hammered out the base mechanics for SC...so SQ42 is going to be delayed along with it in perpetuity.
 
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GoodRevrnd

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2001
6,698
405
126
I'm not seeing how they'll make much money off SQ42. Typical space sims really aren't that popular so anyone who wanted it probably already backed at some point, and for everyone else, it has the CIG stink on it. The only opportunity maybe is if there's a grossly dumbed down flight model option and they're able to release to nextgen consoles.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
101,315
15,478
136
I'm not seeing how they'll make much money of SQ42. Typical space sims really aren't that popular so anyone who wanted it probably already backed at some point, and for everyone else, it has the CIG stink on it. The only opportunity maybe is if there's a grossly dumbed down flight model option and they're able to release to nextgen consoles.
their best bet will be a $5 crap mobile game with time-gated harvesting/ship building/barracks production and a gem store, lol.
 

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,550
81
91
IIRC, didn't they want the flight model to be the same between Start Citizen and Squadron 42? They haven't hammered out the base mechanics for SC...so SQ42 is going to be delayed along with it in perpetuity.
Yes. And the 3.5 patch they released in early April has that new flight model....or at least the start of it. I haven't tried it out (I haven't downloaded a build since 2.6 two years ago), but it sounds like feedback has been mostly positive. But they still have a long way to go to tune it from the sounds of it.
 

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,550
81
91
I'm not seeing how they'll make much money of SQ42. Typical space sims really aren't that popular so anyone who wanted it probably already backed at some point, and for everyone else, it has the CIG stink on it. The only opportunity maybe is if there's a grossly dumbed down flight model option and they're able to release to nextgen consoles.
I don't either. But CIG clearly think they can. They just sold 10% of CIG to a father/son team for $45 million. They told everyone that $45 million was going to be used specifically for marketing SQ42 (so that no backer money is used for marketing...it's all used for development). Personally I think that statement is bullshit. All their funds go into the same pool and are used for whatever they need (like keeping the lights on).

I think CIG believes the star power in the game will sell copies.....Mark Hammil, Liam Cunningham, Gary Oldman, Gillian Anderson, etc. That doesn't do much for me, but maybe others get enamored with movie/tv stars?

It won't be a "true" space sim. It's more a story-driven action game with branching story arcs. They're working really hard right now on unifying first person and third person views during the narrative scenes. So if Liam Cunningham is chewing your ass out for messing up a mission, you can view it in either first or third person (switching back and forth as desired) and move around in the scene and everything will be tied.

This sounds cool, but is it really needed? I don't think so.

It's a great example of technical stuff that I think is wasted time and money.....further delaying a game that should have been released years ago.

Regarding the console strategy, CIG has said both "no"....and "never say never". I think financial necessity could force them down that path......
 

GoodRevrnd

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2001
6,698
405
126
It's a great example of technical stuff that I think is wasted time and money.....further delaying a game that should have been released years ago.
*cough*planets*cough*

Game would probably be done by now if they focused half the resources they spent making planets on platform, gameplay mechanics, and space station assets.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,794
824
126
As soon as they declaired there was this 'other game' that they were going to make before the actual real game was even released you had to know this was going to be a big fat failure.
 

GodisanAtheist

Platinum Member
Nov 16, 2006
2,222
598
136
Its unfortunate the space sim genre is so dead that people who were fans of the genre felt they needed to back SC to get a bit of what they love.

Its strange that the genre has not seen a livelier resurgence (as the "infinity likes" have in the RPG genre): everyone likes the fleet battles from the Star Wars movies, console controllers have joysticks and a substantial helping of buttons, and the very nature of the genre lends itself to high quality visuals for relatively low hardware requirements (as all you're rendering is objects, no landscape to waste processing power on). Granted, standalone joysticks as peripherals are not nearly as prevalent as they once were, but that could be a bit of a chicken and egg scenario.

I would personally love to see an updated and decked out FreeSpace 3 to both continue the plot threads left at the end of FS2 and to have a game built form the ground up on a new engine instead of the strung out FS2Open project (which has done wonders for the core game but is long past its prime). Even another space combat game that captured the feeling of darting between massive cap ships slugging it out with beam weapons and flak cannons.
 

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,550
81
91
As soon as they declaired there was this 'other game' that they were going to make before the actual real game was even released you had to know this was going to be a big fat failure.
So from day 1?

The original Kickstarter was for the single-player game (now know as Squadron 42). The multiplayer game (Star Citizen) was a stretch goal that was rapidly reached (and surpassed).
 

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,550
81
91
*cough*planets*cough*

Game would probably be done by now if they focused half the resources they spent making planets on platform, gameplay mechanics, and space station assets.
Another great example. And that one stings a bit (for me) because, as I understand it, Squadron 42 code was largely scrapped and started over because of Chris Roberts' insistence that this cool procedural planet technology be included in that game.

SQ42 could have taken place entirely in space and/or on space stations and the majority of the players would have been completely fine with that.
 

Dannar26

Senior member
Mar 13, 2012
683
26
91
Yes. And the 3.5 patch they released in early April has that new flight model....or at least the start of it. I haven't tried it out (I haven't downloaded a build since 2.6 two years ago), but it sounds like feedback has been mostly positive. But they still have a long way to go to tune it from the sounds of it.
I came across a discussion about the flight model on the Star Citizen subreddit. I don't recall which flight model they were discussing in particular, but there were plenty of people pushing for it be more "arcade like" and less of a flight sim. I agree with them; making dog fighting feel like I'm an unprepared joe dropped into a cockpit of some incredibly complicated craft isn't going to ensure this thing gets mass appeal. There's a reason we don't just "rent" air planes and fly them ourselves. This game shouldn't feel as complex as "reality."

Hopefully this is somewhere around free space in terms of difficulty.

Its unfortunate the space sim genre is so dead that people who were fans of the genre felt they needed to back SC to get a bit of what they love.

Its strange that the genre has not seen a livelier resurgence (as the "infinity likes" have in the RPG genre): everyone likes the fleet battles from the Star Wars movies, console controllers have joysticks and a substantial helping of buttons, and the very nature of the genre lends itself to high quality visuals for relatively low hardware requirements (as all you're rendering is objects, no landscape to waste processing power on). Granted, standalone joysticks as peripherals are not nearly as prevalent as they once were, but that could be a bit of a chicken and egg scenario.

I would personally love to see an updated and decked out FreeSpace 3 to both continue the plot threads left at the end of FS2 and to have a game built form the ground up on a new engine instead of the strung out FS2Open project (which has done wonders for the core game but is long past its prime). Even another space combat game that captured the feeling of darting between massive cap ships slugging it out with beam weapons and flak cannons.
And what we got from the collective hunger was this all-or-nothing game that will either revolutionize everything we know about gaming, or be a letdown to the point of its name being synonymous with failure. And maybe that's burned everybody out?

I would love to see the Divinity Original Sin, and Pillars of Eternity of the new space sim genre.

Another great example. And that one stings a bit (for me) because, as I understand it, Squadron 42 code was largely scrapped and started over because of Chris Roberts' insistence that this cool procedural planet technology be included in that game.

SQ42 could have taken place entirely in space and/or on space stations and the majority of the players would have been completely fine with that.
It's really a missed opprotunity, yeah? Even if the flight model ended up being different in subsequent games, it would have been good to push out an action packed free space game that introduces us to the Star Citizen universe. A finished game would have given them something to stand on, and would have whetted the appetites of die hard fans and curious onlookers alike. Especially with console support.

Thank about it. Would people have cared about World of Warcraft if Warcraft 1, 2, and 3 hadn't come out prior?
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,794
824
126
So from day 1?

The original Kickstarter was for the single-player game (now know as Squadron 42). The multiplayer game (Star Citizen) was a stretch goal that was rapidly reached (and surpassed).
I heard about it in opposite order after it was pretty much at max hype. Either way, it didn't take a genius at that point to know where this was going.
 

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,550
81
91
I heard about it in opposite order after it was pretty much at max hype. Either way, it didn't take a genius at that point to know where this was going.
Most people had your experience.....thinking this was Star Citizen first, SQ42 second. In fact, many people still believe that SQ42 is nothing more than a tutorial mission for Star Citizen. A tutorial mission with mocap, Gary Oldman, Liam Cunningham, Mark Hammil, etc...... lol.

The multiplayer aspect and all the ships in the multiplayer game are definitely what generated all the hype. No doubt about that.
 

Artorias

Golden Member
Feb 8, 2014
1,108
250
136
Further tweet from the same guy "To be able to buy tickets to the dinner you had to be a 'Concierge' member, which means spending at least $1000 on pretend spaceships".

I've never seen this level of spending.

I would be very interested in a demographic breakdown of their sales. Who are all of these people with disposable money?

Is the nostalgic factor so great for these people?

Why has no other major publisher tried to beat them seeing all the "Whales" in this genre.
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,044
350
136
Further tweet from the same guy "To be able to buy tickets to the dinner you had to be a 'Concierge' member, which means spending at least $1000 on pretend spaceships".

I've never seen this level of spending.

I would be very interested in a demographic breakdown of their sales. Who are all of these people with disposable money?

Is the nostalgic factor so great for these people?

Why has no other major publisher tried to beat them seeing all the "Whales" in this genre.
While I'm hesitant to say it, I believe a lot of these 'whales have drifted into cult like behavior. I don't think it's nostalgia at this point, probably more of a devotion to this game in particular. Why, I couldn't tell you, but I admit I'm not one of these people that have an attachment like this towards a game or person (or film like another train wreak of crowdfunding that's similar). I would say though, if these people are spending $275 just to learn more about the game, you'll never be able to tell them they're wasting their money. They're too far into it for logic to happen.

I'm actually kind of glad they are though. If it wasn't for them, I'm not sure we'd get to watch this fascinating saga of a video game and it's ability to continue to mine in sand.
 
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Vivendi

Senior member
Nov 21, 2013
609
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91
Last I read, they're still pulling in crazy amount of money still, in the range of 2-4 million a month by selling these ship designs. It's just crazy to me.
 

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,550
81
91
While I'm hesitant to say it, I believe a lot of these 'whales have drifted into cult like behavior. I don't think it's nostalgia at this point, probably more of a devotion to this game in particular. Why, I couldn't tell you, but I admit I'm not one of these people that have an attachment like this towards a game or person (or film like another train wreak of crowdfunding that's similar). I would say though, if these people are spending $275 just to learn more about the game, you'll never be able to tell them they're wasting their money. They're too far into it for logic to happen.

I'm actually kind of glad they are though. If it wasn't for them, I'm not sure we'd get to watch this fascinating saga of a video game and it's ability to continue to mine in sand.
As someone who wades into the Star Citizen forums frequently (I can't help myself, I admit it - it's like driving down the highway and passing a car wreck - curiosity wins), I think I can answer the "why".

Nostalgia really does play a big part. Lots of these whales were kids when Chris Roberts released his Wing Commander games. They spent many hours playing those games and want that enjoyment back. They're now adults with jobs....CIG is promising them the fountain of youth.
 
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