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Star Citizen: Chris Robert`s new space sim (the Wing Commander guy)

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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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The ships have gotten better every time they have been reworked. I can't think of a single case where this isn't true.

I think what you hear people complaining about is ship specs, which undergo balancing efforts from the time they go live forward. This should be expected - I'm not sure why any reasonable backer in a development environment would expect otherwise. I guess there's always a group that thinks the ship they pledged for should be the end-all meta beast, but that was never the intent of any ship design.

The better approach is not to put so much emotional and financial investment in a digital starship if you can't handle the fact that in the end, this is a game....it's entertainment. It's only worth as much as the fun you get back out of it. At this point, I don't regret a single penny I've spent. I've spent hundreds of hours in there and had a blast.

Alternatively, I spent $70 on ED and would rather I got that money back. I'm not saying ED is a bad game or that people shouldn't play it, I'm just saying that I got zero entertainment value out of it . Somebody else may have a completely different experience, so I don't sit around wringing my hands over how other people spend their money and what they find enjoyable.
Well said.

Maybe it's just me, but ED was way too cartoony for me. I dislike cartoony games anyway, but especially for space.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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There's some cool clips showing up on RSI's twitch

https://www.twitch.tv/starcitizen/clips
That is awesome, thanks! I almost didn't make it - the first ten minutes is nothing, then there's another fifteen minutes of Roberts talking, and it's glitching every twenty seconds or so to buffer, so it's agonizing even to listen to. I'm so glad I hung in, because the video is totally worth it. The graphics are great - one of my concerns was that such a long development cycle would inevitably make the graphics look outdated. Well, even if the game takes another five years to come to market, if they can deliver playable rates with these graphics I'll be well satisfied. The level of detail is great, and the scope is completely amazing. Obviously the choice of Cryengine was no mistake - this scales absolutely beautifully from very intimate human scale to world scale. There is a HUGE amount of detail here, and if Roberts can recreate this with a week (or a month, or three months!) of developer and/or artist time, he's going to be an extremely wealthy man indeed.

Assuming there is a single player component, this will definitely be a buy for me.
 

Stringjam

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2011
1,871
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Not really... They will claim it is faked, or buggy, or broken...
I know...and I love it.

All the hand wringers...the redditers dedicated to hating every part of it. It makes me smile.

I've been a PC gamer since the days when we had to assign IRQs and 8088s had a "turbo" button. ;)

I've seen every milestone in PC gaming at some point....

Doom...Quake...Starcraft...BF...Diablo...UT...HL...CS...GTA...COD...

I think at some point people will look back and see that this was the ONLY 'disruptive' game of the current lame-assed generation.
 
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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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I know...and I love it.

All the hand wringers...the redditers dedicated to hating every part of it. It makes me smile.

I've been a PC gamer since the days when we had to assign IRQs and 8088s had a "turbo" button. ;)

I've seen every milestone in PC gaming at some point....

Doom...Quake...Starcraft...BF...Diablo...UT...HL...CS...GTA...COD...

I think at some point people will look back and see that this was the ONLY 'disruptive' game of the current lame-assed generation.
It's too early to say for certain, but this is the only game I can recall which actually has a shot at it. As I see it, this generation of games is largely defined by better graphics and microtransactions. This is the only game I've see with the potential of getting new content for years, assuming it's well done. This could be what MMORGs were for awhile, but at a far higher level of sophistication. A game that, if you like it, you could play for years, not with new maps but with new worlds. And given the scope (worlds and systems), they can easily slip in new content within the existing infrastructure too.

BTW I built my first PC clone in '85, with an 8MHz turbo button (that made some games unplayable), two big floppy drives that required setting master/slave jumpers, a full 640kb of "fast" RAM, and 12" of Hercules goodness in 16 glorious shades of amber. So I'm right there with you.
 

SLU Aequitas

Golden Member
Jul 13, 2007
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So, fun add on. During the ~8 min warp time when Sean Tracey gets on stage and shows the tools that were used to set up the procgen city, he states and shows that the generated interior set up ties in with the city setup.
"Alright so the second piece of the puzzle [in reference to the demo of procedural interiors they just finished showing]. And the third piece of the puzzle, and one of the more exciting ones, is integrating it into our planet ecosystems. So the ecosystems, and what happens in this video, is we're changing some of the properties just offscreen of ecosystem scattering, so it actually scatters all of these assets - so, again, the cities, plus the interiors within them - and integrates them seamlessly into the ArcCorp cities."
Yeah. ArcCorp has interiors too. That 2nd tool is just amazing and should really help fill in content at a good pace.

What I have a question on is does either of those tools (or is there another one) control/allow spawning of random and area appropriate NPCs? Going back to all of Tony Z's talks, if they can generate the NPCs in these buildings and tag random NPCs with missions, there's the potential for a lot of gameplay scenarios and a lot more variety in the dynamic mission system than what I previously thought.


Finally, CR noted that they're going to move to a model of (hopefully) quarterly updates, with time dictating what content will make the release. Makes sense now that they've got the patcher up and running. Also will hopefully limit the content drought.
 

SLU Aequitas

Golden Member
Jul 13, 2007
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Folks, you have to check this out. TechBoyJK posted it in the other thread - it's the "beyond 3.0" demo. Stick with it - the first ten minutes is nothing, then there's another fifteen minutes of Roberts talking (I was working and paying next to no attention to it), and then they finally get started with a demo. The graphics and scope are simply amazing. Frankly one of my concerns was that such a long development cycle would inevitably make the graphics look outdated. Well, even if the game takes another five years to come to market, if they can deliver playable rates with these graphics I'll be well satisfied. The level of detail is great, and the scope is completely amazing. Obviously the choice of Cryengine was no mistake - this scales absolutely beautifully from very intimate human scale to world scale.

This also eased my mind on the likelihood that this whole thing will crash and burn due to Roberts running out of cash, or being released in half-assed form like Duke Nukem to recoup some losses. I don't think Roberts is going to have a problem raising additional money as needed. Worse case, if Roberts folds then someone else will surely pick this up. It's that good. The flying (and damage) physics are still kinda arcadish, but definitely acceptable; I suspect they represent a compromise between realism and ease of use. The Poop-o-meter has apparently not yet been implemented - or maybe that's a popup rather than a GUI meter. ;) But overall, it's very playable.

They also display some of their tools for world creation. Frankly, I thought their previous creation tools demo was absolutely pathetic. These are completely different. This isn't creating some rudimentary barren "world" with a big cartoon crab - in mere minutes, they create the infrastructure of a cohesive, living heavily populated world. In just a couple minutes, they have a world that supports a quick flyover, but they also have tools (some still in development) to populate the interior. Even without specific quest & content creation, one can travel around the city (indeed, the world) via public transportation and gawk at buildings, billboards, etc. Or simply fly over it. The terrain generator is much, much better as well, so sparsely populated worlds can also be made interesting in a relatively short period of time. The procedurally generated areas definitely look procedurally generated, but they are undoubtedly better than any procedurally generated terrain areas I've seen before. These tools are definitely licensable, if Roberts wants or needs to do so.

This is a framework onto which they could deliver more initial content than a Fallout 4 or Oblivion, and yet could easily release additional content for years, not only in big chunks (planets, systems) but also in content & quest packs, since they will already have the basic framework and infrastructure in place. There is a HUGE amount of detail here, and if Roberts can recreate this with a week (or a month, or three months!) of developer and/or artist time for each system, he's going to be an extremely wealthy man indeed.

Assuming there is a single player component, this will definitely be a buy for me. This definitely changed me from a skeptic to a believer. The last release convinced me that Roberts truly intended to release a game. This convinces me that he CAN release a game. And barring any unforeseen events, that he WILL release a game. It's that good. Can't say I'm a Roberts fanboy yet - but I can no longer say I'm NOT a Roberts fanboy either.

https://www.twitch.tv/starcitizen/clips
Hey, thought your post was really good and worth bringing in here. General rule of thumb is that this thread is for development discussion, that other one is for those who think this whole thing is a scam.

So just keep in mind, we got a whiles to go. Don't get me wrong, I was giddy when I saw the tools being shown off (see my previous post, happy someone else saw as much promise with them), but there's a lot of space (teehee) to fill. Personally, this game remains out of reach until they fully implement the meter as well a flow physics for poop in game. Let's be clear, this is a critical path in the development stream.

With regards to content/quests, see my prior post, but I believe this will hook into Tony Z's dynamic mission system incredibly well. Even if the missions boil down to a set few archtypes, as long as the core gameplay is fun, the dynamic mission system utilizing all locations intelligently will be a pretty far leap forward in terms of the ability to generate large swaths of living solar systems.

If you have the time, really, really interesting ATV where Tony Z lays out the core of Star Citizen's subsumption mission system: https://youtu.be/FhywXu8vsuM?t=10m54s

Also, there's very much a single player game coming. Squadron 42; supposed to be 3 episodes, roughly 45 missions each. Crazy casting, we'll see a slice of it for the Christmas stream. I'm more of a single player / PvE Co-Op guy myself, so far more excited for the Christmas stream.
 

bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
5,832
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Looks good but I've only caught small glimpses here and there. Like in the past we won't really know until it goes live. Quick question though. Have they got the patcher figured out yet? It's been awhile since I played but I remember having to dl around 20 or more gig every time a new patch was released. Does anyone know if this new release will alleviate that? My ISP has a cap so it was a killer.......
 

SLU Aequitas

Golden Member
Jul 13, 2007
1,252
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Looks good but I've only caught small glimpses here and there. Like in the past we won't really know until it goes live. Quick question though. Have they got the patcher figured out yet? It's been awhile since I played but I remember having to dl around 20 or more gig every time a new patch was released. Does anyone know if this new release will alleviate that? My ISP has a cap so it was a killer.......
Yep, it’s already in use to good effect with the current testing.
 
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werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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Hey, thought your post was really good and worth bringing in here. General rule of thumb is that this thread is for development discussion, that other one is for those who think this whole thing is a scam.

So just keep in mind, we got a whiles to go. Don't get me wrong, I was giddy when I saw the tools being shown off (see my previous post, happy someone else saw as much promise with them), but there's a lot of space (teehee) to fill. Personally, this game remains out of reach until they fully implement the meter as well a flow physics for poop in game. Let's be clear, this is a critical path in the development stream.

With regards to content/quests, see my prior post, but I believe this will hook into Tony Z's dynamic mission system incredibly well. Even if the missions boil down to a set few archtypes, as long as the core gameplay is fun, the dynamic mission system utilizing all locations intelligently will be a pretty far leap forward in terms of the ability to generate large swaths of living solar systems.

If you have the time, really, really interesting ATV where Tony Z lays out the core of Star Citizen's subsumption mission system: https://youtu.be/FhywXu8vsuM?t=10m54s

Also, there's very much a single player game coming. Squadron 42; supposed to be 3 episodes, roughly 45 missions each. Crazy casting, we'll see a slice of it for the Christmas stream. I'm more of a single player / PvE Co-Op guy myself, so far more excited for the Christmas stream.
Thanks. Honestly I wasn’t sure there would ever be a game until recently. I wasn’t impressed with what I have seen of 3.0 either. However, what I saw in this “beyond 3.0” presentation convinces me that Roberts is on the right track AND is producing content good enough to ensure he can get the capital he needs to finish, especially given the unprecedented scope for highly profitable DLC. And worst case, even if he screws the pooch and the game sucks, those tools are going to revolutionize gaming.

I think he still has a ways to go, but that plays to his advantage. It has to take a lot of power to render those scenes in real time. Right now is a crappy time to build a gaming PC, but this is a game that will inspire a lot of new gaming PCs. And, I am sure this gets ported to consoles, and the more penetration of the higher powered refresh consoles, the better the console experience.
 

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,635
106
106
I watched the keynote presentation at Citizencon several times, including last night with my 12 year old son. I think he summed it up perfectly: "that was awesome.....but what do you do in this game?"

Fact is, after 5 years of development we STILL have yet to see meaningful gameplay mechanics beyond pew pew. Where's mining? Where' interdiction? Where's cargo/commerce? I had expected see all of those during this presentation as they're supposed to be close or completed based on their own internal production schedule.

And Squadron 42.......yeah, I know they say we'll get an update on that during the holiday livestream, but......they also told use we'd see a vertical slice of it a year ago. Talk is cheap.

Regarding the switch to a calendar based patch release schedule....that's awesome....except they said the same thing in 2014, indicating we'd get 6 patches in 2015. I think they abandoned that plan fairly quickly.

Hopefully this time is different.
 

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,635
106
106
So, fun add on. During the ~8 min warp time when Sean Tracey gets on stage and shows the tools that were used to set up the procgen city, he states and shows that the generated interior set up ties in with the city setup.

Yeah. ArcCorp has interiors too. That 2nd tool is just amazing and should really help fill in content at a good pace.

What I have a question on is does either of those tools (or is there another one) control/allow spawning of random and area appropriate NPCs? Going back to all of Tony Z's talks, if they can generate the NPCs in these buildings and tag random NPCs with missions, there's the potential for a lot of gameplay scenarios and a lot more variety in the dynamic mission system than what I previously thought.


Finally, CR noted that they're going to move to a model of (hopefully) quarterly updates, with time dictating what content will make the release. Makes sense now that they've got the patcher up and running. Also will hopefully limit the content drought.
To be clear, there is no intention of having interiors in every building:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/not-interiors-in-every-damn-building-slightly-smil
 

SLU Aequitas

Golden Member
Jul 13, 2007
1,252
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Correct, not every building. Even if you could, it couldn’t be properly appreciated. However the tools allow them to generate interiors for ArcCorp (and elsewhere) with minimal effort. With NPCs and incorporation into the mission system, this would allow for a lot more variety in missions and allow for some exploration and usage of the city beyond as an impressive backdrop.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
462
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Correct, not every building. Even if you could, it couldn’t be properly appreciated. However the tools allow them to generate interiors for ArcCorp (and elsewhere) with minimal effort. With NPCs and incorporation into the mission system, this would allow for a lot more variety in missions and allow for some exploration and usage of the city beyond as an impressive backdrop.
Most buildings in most big cities don’t allow people to come in and wander through them. As you point out, not many people would go through every building anyway, especially just to interact with procedurally generated idiots who know nothing. But as you again point out, the ease of adding interiors makes DLC much quicker to produce. If one is limited to certain reasonably safe sectors while in beginner ships, then people will need additional content as they grind their way up.

Of course all this presupposes that the game is actually fun. If not, then people aren’t likely to buy DLC. But it’s space; there could be tons of choices of things to do - scouting missions, passenger service, mining, missing person/non responsive stations, salvage, etc. - such that everyone interested in the genre can find things they enjoy doing.

Worst case and the game is not fun, they could turn it over to modders and let the community make fun content for people who buy the game.
 

Seba

Golden Member
Sep 17, 2000
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The updated bug number (all categories): 291.

This is until 3.0 gets to PTU, not live.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
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I gathered 57 bugs & 254 issues.

57 bugs are the blockers. Issues could be anything, but generally aren't considered blockers.
 

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,635
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106
I'll believe it when I run it but Sean Tracey said today they tested 60 players/server this week and it looks good. At twice the performance of 2.6.3.

Edit: I messed up the time stamp...go backwards a minute or two.

https://youtu.be/qblLBI33Uvw
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,662
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Even at 30 per instance, I think a game could be made viable. It would be nice with more obviously, but we can still get some really decent gameplay at that amount. The Goons won't like it because they can't do their "we own this space" kind of thing by having 500 people there (but that is why they don't like it right now anyway and have been poo-pooing the game since it became known that you wouldn't be able to blockade stations/systems/planets from everyone else).

Edit/Note to editors: "Goon" in this is in term for GoonSwarm (from Eve, who are SA members)
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
60
91
Even at 30 per instance, I think a game could be made viable. It would be nice with more obviously, but we can still get some really decent gameplay at that amount. The Goons won't like it because they can't do their "we own this space" kind of thing by having 500 people there (but that is why they don't like it right now anyway and have been poo-pooing the game since it became known that you wouldn't be able to blockade stations/systems/planets from everyone else).

Edit/Note to editors: "Goon" in this is in term for GoonSwarm (from Eve, who are SA members)
I got banned for saying goons.

Another thing to note is that they are working on elastic server instances and server meshing. Basically, all the servers will communicate with each other and be area/instance based with the ability to spin up more servers for demand on the fly. No reason to have a server running for some random point in space, but IF X number of players want to meetup in a random spot, a server can be spun up for those players and spun down once the demand subsides.

Ultimately this gets us closer to the goal of having everyone on and able to play in the same game space.
 

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