Stalling weight loss + one major injury - Please Advise

[thatsright]

A few years ago I changed my diet, lifestyle and lost 60lb in about 9 months. Proper eating and going to the gym, as it should be. Getting back at it and I am now starting my 4th week back in the Gym and back to proper diet However, I have one major complication=dislocated right shoulder. This happened about 6 weeks or so ago. My PT person said I could go back and just start low on weights, etc and see how much I can do. I was happily surprised as I could do a lot more things than I was expecting, just no way near the weight loads as before. My goal is to loose body fat (at least 15lb), not bulk. I already took pics of my body and measurements with a tape measurement to not rely completely on what the scale readout is day to day.

Since I started, not seeing the results I was expecting/hoping for. I was expecting about 1lb loss per week. But something seems to be out of balance.. When I started I was about 209lb and last Friday I was down to 206lb. Yesterday I was back up to 208.8 and this AM back to 206. I know these fluctuations will be normal, but I'm till not going down enough. I would of expected to hit 206 two weeks ago. So, as everyone will ask, what you are eating, what’s your routine, etc, etc. See below:

Stats
Weight 212
5’ 10”
37 years old / male
My BMR: 2024 cals
Caloric Maintenance: 2600

I go to planet fitness near my house. Great gym, but very small. Very limited selection weight wise. I use the Smith Machine for bench presses plus a few other things. They recently took out free barbells not attached to a machine so you can do chest presses. They also have barbells with permanently attached weights that top out at 60lb and dumbbells at 70lb. If you want to go any heaver lifting with barbells, can only add as many plates as you can fit on a smith machine. I've already topped out doing forearms with the 60lb. So I just have to do more reps per set.

My gym routine:

Tue: Lower body. Leg presses 180lbx 5 reps; 270lbx 5rep x2 sets; 320lb x5 reps x2 sets
Calves 180lbx 5 reps; 270lbx 5rep x2 sets; 320lb x5 reps x2 sets.

Wed: Forearms Palm up barbell wrist curls – 60lb x 5 reps x 5 sets. I wish I could go higher lb., but this is the max weight PF has.
Biceps – Zottoman curls/Hammer curls – 25lb 5 reps x 5 sets. Have never been able to go higher on lb. even before arm injury
32min of elliptical. Burn ~450 cals.

Thur: Ab Torso rotation machine 70lbx10 reps; 90x10 reps; 110x10 reps x2 sets.
Lower back extensions 6x10 reps + 10lb weight
Middle back (can’t remember the name.)
Chest Bench Press w/ Smith machine. 30lb x 5 reps x 5 sets. Topped out at about 100lb before the injury. I tired going higher, and could just never go over the 100lb.

Fri: Traps – Dumbbell shrug. 40lbx 5 reps x 5 sets
Tricep press machine. Now up to 110lb. 5 reps x 5 sets.
32min of elliptical. Burn ~450 cals.

DIET

Days I lift, my cal limit is 2400. Days when doing cardio, up to 2500 cals, days when of no activity the goal is 2200 cals. Here is a sample of my lifting days. This is my diet during the week, and honestly, it’s the same exact items every day.

Questions:

1. Of all the things I am currently doing, not sure on the cardio piece. When I started out a few years ago, many people said to not do any cardio. So I never did and was able to loose 60lbs. Then the last time I started up again, people recommended doing at least 20 minutes x2 a week of cardio. I ate the exact same food/quantities as above, and never was able to have 1lb disappear from my scale. Should I stop doing cardio? Ive been doing 32min on elliptical and burn 400-500 cals each session. If I don’t have to do cardio (for now) that would be fantastic.

2. How many days are needed to go to the gym per week to start loosing fat with the above routine? I’m going 4 days now. Two of those days are half cardio at the end. Someone mentioned to start out at 3 days because if I do 4 and then plateau out, there is less wiggle room to add more routine work to start losing weight again.

3. I’ve always tried to do low carb, high protein diet. Right now, its not very low carb. Should I stick to the carb intake I have now? Then, when I plateau I have something I can cut back on instead of already being low.

4. What can I do to start loosing 1lb a week consistently from my above situation?

When making any suggestions, please keep in mind my gimp shoulder.

Thanks so much!

 

[thatsright]

Anyone?

 

[HitAnyKey]

Eat less, exercise waaaaaay more. Like everyday, mate! If you want to lose weight, you really need to reduce the calories a bit more. And yes, get rid of them carbs, stat!

That doesn't need to be in a gym either. Walking, running, yard work, etc. Just get more physical and eat alot less.

 

[z1ggy]

So your cal maint is 2600. I assume that's with you taking into account your daily activity level, general metabolism, etc. With that in mind, to lose 1lb/week, you need to average about 2100cal a day... Now that's a daily average.

So first thing is, start eating less on average. I say on average because I'm a fan of carb loading & calorie loading. Meaning, on the days you lift heavy, you eat more cals overall AND more carbs overall. On the days you don't lift heavy, or don't lift at all, you eat less overall AND less carbs.

For example, heavy leg day, you might want to up the cals to 2300 and up carb intake to around 150-200g. And on arm day, lower cals to around 1900, and carbs down to the 75g range. That's an example.. I didn't work that out for exact numbers, I think you get the idea.

Also, forget the lame ass elliptical machine for 45 mins. If you are dead set on using it for whatever reason, the most you need is 15-20min. But... You do intense interval training. Do 1min on like level 12 as hard as you can, then do 30 seconds at level 3 or 4 to lower your heart rate and recover. It might be hard as first.. Do as much as you can, but eventually try to work up to around 15-20 mins with a cool down at the end.

If you can make the leap off the elliptical... Try going for more intense plyometric stuff like burpees, mountain climbers, etc. I have a bunch of high pace but short duration cardio I do at the end of my workouts.

I know it's working because I've got 2-2.5lb in the past 2 weeks, and I'm down from about 197lb to 185lb from last yr. Of course.. I am shooting for around 10-12% body fat, your goals may be different.

 

[smackababy]

I'd adjust the calorie intake down a bit. Maybe you're overestimating the amount of calories you're actually burning while working out. Just drop like 150 (a little less than 1/3rd of a pound loss per week) or so a day and see where that lands you.

 

[thatsright]

So your cal maint is 2600. I assume that's with you taking into account your daily activity level, general metabolism, etc. With that in mind, to lose 1lb/week, you need to average about 2100cal a day... Now that's a daily average.

So first thing is, start eating less on average. I say on average because I'm a fan of carb loading & calorie loading. Meaning, on the days you lift heavy, you eat more cals overall AND more carbs overall. On the days you don't lift heavy, or don't lift at all, you eat less overall AND less carbs.

For example, heavy leg day, you might want to up the cals to 2300 and up carb intake to around 150-200g. And on arm day, lower cals to around 1900, and carbs down to the 75g range. That's an example.. I didn't work that out for exact numbers, I think you get the idea.

Also, forget the lame ass elliptical machine for 45 mins. If you are dead set on using it for whatever reason, the most you need is 15-20min. But... You do intense interval training. Do 1min on like level 12 as hard as you can, then do 30 seconds at level 3 or 4 to lower your heart rate and recover. It might be hard as first.. Do as much as you can, but eventually try to work up to around 15-20 mins with a cool down at the end.

If you can make the leap off the elliptical... Try going for more intense plyometric stuff like burpees, mountain climbers, etc. I have a bunch of high pace but short duration cardio I do at the end of my workouts.

I know it's working because I've got 2-2.5lb in the past 2 weeks, and I'm down from about 197lb to 185lb from last yr. Of course.. I am shooting for around 10-12% body fat, your goals may be different.

You mention on 'arm days' to go down to 1900cals. However my minimum caloric requirement is 2100 daily. If I did this, wouldn't my metabolism start to slow down? I was assuming I can only have a 1900-2600 caloric range I can play with.

Also, one of my questions is going to gym 3 days enough. Once I plateau out, I will need to add more days. If going 4, well then I have less wiggle room when I hit the wall.

Also, also I'm not set on using Elliptical at all. It sucks. Hate it. Right now doing it for 30 min a day (which burns 450 cals). If its any benefit to do it at all, to lose weight, then I will certainly do it. If its a waste of time, well then I'll ditch it. What do you guys think?

 

[smackababy]

Going to the gym any days of the week won't really do much in terms of weight loss. That is almost entirely diet based.

I think you are overestimating how many calories you are actually burning at the gym. Let's take the elliptical. What intensity are you actually doing it? Is there a good amount of resistance, similar to what you'd experience cross country skiing? Is your heart rate up the entire time? If not, you're pretty much just wasting time. Are you getting your calories burned by the elliptical itself? Those are notoriously off, especially if not calibrated for your weight.

 

[z1ggy]

You mention on 'arm days' to go down to 1900cals. However my minimum caloric requirement is 2100 daily. If I did this, wouldn't my metabolism start to slow down? I was assuming I can only have a 1900-2600 caloric range I can play with.

Also, one of my questions is going to gym 3 days enough. Once I plateau out, I will need to add more days. If going 4, well then I have less wiggle room when I hit the wall.

Also, also I'm not set on using Elliptical at all. It sucks. Hate it. Right now doing it for 30 min a day (which burns 450 cals). If its any benefit to do it at all, to lose weight, then I will certainly do it. If its a waste of time, well then I'll ditch it. What do you guys think?

It only slows down if you are eating low amounts for days and days in a row. Again, I am going by what you said that 2600 is your maint. level. So going 3 days @ 2300 cals and 4 days at 1900 cals still leaves you right under the overall weekly average of 2100cals. If you wanted to be anal to get it exact, you could eat slightly more than 1900 on those days.

But since you've hit your plateau, you need to do something different. Your body is telling you it needs you to push it harder in order to make more gains. The two things you need to try next is the advice above about diet, and changing your gym routine.

In regards to the gym:
It's not about how many days you go. It's about how hard you push yourself when you do go. You could pull 2 a days, 5 days a week, but if you aren't giving it 100%, you won't get results.

Also, you should be lifting heavy. Focus on lifting weights that you can do more than 5 times, but no more than 8. You want to tell your body by lifting heavy that, "hey body, I need this muscle. Don't get rid of it."

Lastly, there's arguments all the time about how often to do cardio, and what cardio to do. Some on here who are very low in body fat might tell you to do 30+ mins of some elliptical. Maybe it worked for them.. or maybe it actually didn't and something else did and they mistook that as the key for them. For me, it has never worked. Look at sprinters. Next, look at marathoners. Who is more muscular? Sprinters of course.. And they have muscle while keeping fat low because they are training to be that way. Overall, what I am saying is to try ditching the 30min medium pace cardio. Yes you are burning 450cal (you might not be, those calcs can be off) but you are telling your body you need endurance, and not muscle.
Try doing some sprints outside if you can. Do something like 5-10 50 yard sprints 3x a week. If that's not an option for whatever reason, there's other things you can do with out having to run. Burpees are pretty intense if you push yourself...Mountain climbers...Plyo jumps onto box.. there's a ton of stuff.

Koing (ATF member) got ripped by doing no cardio, eating right, and lifting heavy. He has a log here about what he did, when he did it, so on and so on. That's why I am a believer that slow pace cardio is useless unless you are an endurance runner.

 

[Koing]

Thatsright you are eating too much. You need to avg 2100cal for 7 days to lose 1lb a week.

I would lower down to 2200 per day and then refeed on a good carb meal on Sunday. Don't take your weight at different times of the day. Do it in the morning after you go to the toilet. It's much less affected by any other time in the day.

Go to the gym to MAINTAIN MUSCLE MASS. Do the stair machine for 15-20minutes 2x a week to start with. This gives you room to up the time on the stair machine and to add extra sessions in later.

I like to just eat the same amount each day, this then gives you a more steady weight chart to track due to not carb cycling.

If you eat 2200cal and you aren't losing weight your maintenance is nowhere near 2600 cal then. Try and eat 2200cal first and see how you get on. I'd cut the 200cal from protein so far.

I'd try to do more leg presses/ deadlifts in your work out as well. Your training shouldn't take more than 15-20minutes tops the way you have written it. Take no more than 60seconds in-between sets. Just hammer through it. This will also be better for you and you don't have enough weights to us win your gym anyway.

There is also no way you are burning 450cal for 32mins on the elliptical unless you are going crazy on it. The machine is over estimating and as consequence you aren't losing any weight.

Remember, everything is a guide and if you are not losing weight consistently, your weekly average isn't moving down. You are eating too much and or the machine is estimating too high a calorie burn. The hard facts are the scales and your measurements. Adjust it if you see no results after 2 weeks and you have no reason for your set back. E.g. you were away the weekend, you were ill, you just messed up and ate badly for a few days etc.

Koing

 

[thatsright]

Thatsright you are eating too much. You need to avg 2100cal for 7 days to lose 1lb a week.

I would lower down to 2200 per day and then refeed on a good carb meal on Sunday. Don't take your weight at different times of the day. Do it in the morning after you go to the toilet. It's much less affected by any other time in the day.

Go to the gym to MAINTAIN MUSCLE MASS. Do the stair machine for 15-20minutes 2x a week to start with. This gives you room to up the time on the stair machine and to add extra sessions in later.

I like to just eat the same amount each day, this then gives you a more steady weight chart to track due to not carb cycling.

If you eat 2200cal and you aren't losing weight your maintenance is nowhere near 2600 cal then. Try and eat 2200cal first and see how you get on. I'd cut the 200cal from protein so far.

I'd try to do more leg presses/ deadlifts in your work out as well. Your training shouldn't take more than 15-20minutes tops the way you have written it. Take no more than 60seconds in-between sets. Just hammer through it. This will also be better for you and you don't have enough weights to us win your gym anyway.

There is also no way you are burning 450cal for 32mins on the elliptical unless you are going crazy on it. The machine is over estimating and as consequence you aren't losing any weight.

Remember, everything is a guide and if you are not losing weight consistently, your weekly average isn't moving down. You are eating too much and or the machine is estimating too high a calorie burn. The hard facts are the scales and your measurements. Adjust it if you see no results after 2 weeks and you have no reason for your set back. E.g. you were away the weekend, you were ill, you just messed up and ate badly for a few days etc.

Koing

Ok, a bit of an update.

Yes, was prob/really eating too many cals=no results. So I've cut down to 2200 on days I lift, try to do under on days I do not go to gym. Going down on cals is the key-duh! The last few times I did the whole 'going back to gym' after long layoffs, I always stayed at the same 2300-2500 cal range. No surprise not dropping lb's. I have started to do a bit more in the gym. Bodybuilding.com website is FANTASTIC to see new exercises. Before checking this, my routine was the same (for over a year) and extremely monotonous. I did a new leg exercise over a week ago, and my hamstrings are still sore!!. When I'm in gym, I would always do 4 body parts over 3 or 4 days. I've decided to just keep on adding a little bit more weight each week. Again, anything involving using the right arm is problematic due to my dislocated shoulder. After all of the above, more questions-of course:

1. I have dropped doing the cardio and it seems like the majority of folks I talked to say its probably be a waste of time to loose weight. BUT, just saw my doctor and he said I should be doing cardio. I hate this back and forth. Please give me your, 'final word!'
2. I guess I'm not listening to you, but for a lot of exercises, I'm doing 5 sets of 5 reps. By the time I get to the end of several of these, fatigued. For back extensions, I'm doing 6 sets of 10 reps. I added 10lb weight, and I nearly collapse at the end. Should I cut back on the reps or sets? I think lots of you would say 5x5 is STILL too much volume So if I add weight, and getting fatigued quicker, just cut down on the # of reps/sets?
4. Even before the injury when doing biceps, I could never go above 25lb weights for my biceps. I would do 5x5 routine. Still an issue. The right arm now gives out much quicker (assuming because of injury). For this movement, should I just do a lower lbs and more reps? Then I'm progressing that body part, but it will just take longer.
5. My doc also said do do more reps with less sets with the same amount of weight. Or no?
6. What does 'refeed' mean with carbs?
7. Finally, When I plateau out, I will need to add more work to the routine. Would it be ok to go to gym just 3x a week now, and then add another day when I hit the wall? I'm still unclear on this from all the comments. As I have gone down on cals quite a bit, doesn't seem like I can cut that further when that time comes to adjust.

(Not a question, but when doing elliptical and I was getting the 'burning 450 cals' that was the readout from the machine. Usually my heartbeat was at 160+ beats per minute.)

Please comment my 7 questions if you can.

 

[thatsright]

Anyone on the above? All thoughts/comments/advice appreciated.

 

[z1ggy]

1. Cardio is not needed to lose weight. Eventually you'll stop loosing weight at which point doing some HIIT can help you get over the hump

2. No don't cut back. Also, why are you adding weight each set? 5x5 is the same weight for 5 sets, or a slightly lower weight on any subsequent sets if you fatigue.

3. ??

4. No again.. I don't really think doing less weight will help, unless you are injured or recovering. I think the optimal range for muscle/strength building is 5-8 reps. I've always felt doing any more than 8 reps is kind of a waste unless you are just trying to maintain what you have because you are already at a high muscle content with little fat. Even then... lifting heavy is still fine. Fat loss is dictated more by what you eat, and muscle retention will be dictated by how you lift.

5. No. That doesn't even make sense. If you are lifting something 5 times and you can't really do a 6th rep (the 5th rep should be very difficult, but not total fatigue) then you shouldn't be able to keep the weight the same, but do more reps. Your doc sounds like a doofus.

6. It means on days you lift heavy (think heavy squat or deadlift) you need a high amount of carbs to "reefed" your muscles and restore glycogen levels to help recover. This is why on heavy lift days you eat more carbs, and on off days, you eat less carbs (if you are carb cycling).

7. When you plateau, the usual course of action is to deload, not go to the gym less. For example, say you are benching 135lb, 5x5. The next time you bench, you move up to 140lb, 5x5, but on the 3rd set, you can only do 3 reps, and by the 5th set, you can only do 3 again. Try 140lb again next week.. But if you can't get 5x5, the following week you deload the weight by 10% or so, meaning you would remove about 15lb and start over. So you'd go back to benching 125lb, 5x5 until you get back up to 140lb. Try for 5x5 again... Hopefully that time you will push through it. Eventually you'll prob hit a solid wall though while eating for weight loss. I honestly don't even focus on strength too much while cutting (like I am right now). The goal during weight loss is muscle retention and obviously fat loss.

 

[thatsright]

Thanks Ziggy.

Though to come back to #7, if I just go to gym 3x a week but hitting all of my body parts once, would that be enough? Or it really has to be 4+ days and working body parts twice or more? Again, when I plateau out, I don't have much room to adjust daily cal intake (as I see it now), so by adding a 4th or 5th day would make my body work more = breaking over the wall. Or, if I just do 3x a week now I'm not going to see any results? As always, its one of those your mileage may vary, but in general what do you think?

 

[smackababy]

I only hit each group once a week (and I believe MAX OT is the same, which is what Ziggy is using, IIRC). It also depends on what your goals are. If you are trying to lose weight, and that is your main goal, simply hitting once a week is fine. Just keep the muscles in a break down / rebuild cycle so you don't lose them. If you are trying to increase muscle mass and lose weight, I'd lose the weight first and then do a bulk up diet.

 

[z1ggy]

I'm more in favor of doing more sessions per week for less minutes, but with higher intensity. Personally, I train 5 days a week, each body part once, as hard as I can for 25 minutes. See below

Mon-Back (Bent over BB Row, Pull ups, Seated Row)
Tues- Shoulders (Overhead Press, DB Press, Lateral Raises)
Weds- Legs (Back Squat, Dead Lift, Lunges, Front Squat)
Thurs- Chest (BB or DB Bench Press, BB or DB Incline Press)
Fri- Arms (Bicep curls, Skull Crushers, Tricep Cable Push Downs)

All days followed by 5-6 mins of intense cardio: 1 min jump rope followed by 30 mountain climbers... or, 10 burpees followed by 20 leg lifts, etc etc. Full body movements basically.

You could do 3x a week and still following starting strength. I've found though, it takes a long time in each session and I lose focus. Also, by my 3rd muscle group, I am usually very tired. I found it hard to do 5 heavy sets of squats, then 5 heavy sets of bench press and keep my intensity high. I'd much rather do 5 day splits, and give my lifts 25 mins of the most intense lifting I can give.

Right now you are trying to cut, no? Don't worry about pushing through plateau's and gaining tons of strength. It's fruitless if you've been lifting for a while. In fact, if you'd previously been lifting for mass/strength, I would not be surprised or alarmed if in fact you actually lost strength. This is normal.

 

[thatsright]

I'm more in favor of doing more sessions per week for less minutes, but with higher intensity. Personally, I train 5 days a week, each body part once, as hard as I can for 25 minutes. See below

Mon-Back (Bent over BB Row, Pull ups, Seated Row)
Tues- Shoulders (Overhead Press, DB Press, Lateral Raises)
Weds- Legs (Back Squat, Dead Lift, Lunges, Front Squat)
Thurs- Chest (BB or DB Bench Press, BB or DB Incline Press)
Fri- Arms (Bicep curls, Skull Crushers, Tricep Cable Push Downs)

All days followed by 5-6 mins of intense cardio: 1 min jump rope followed by 30 mountain climbers... or, 10 burpees followed by 20 leg lifts, etc etc. Full body movements basically.

You could do 3x a week and still following starting strength. I've found though, it takes a long time in each session and I lose focus. Also, by my 3rd muscle group, I am usually very tired. I found it hard to do 5 heavy sets of squats, then 5 heavy sets of bench press and keep my intensity high. I'd much rather do 5 day splits, and give my lifts 25 mins of the most intense lifting I can give.

Right now you are trying to cut, no? Don't worry about pushing through plateau's and gaining tons of strength. It's fruitless if you've been lifting for a while. In fact, if you'd previously been lifting for mass/strength, I would not be surprised or alarmed if in fact you actually lost strength. This is normal.

Yes I am cutting. I understand your desire for 'quicker gym sessions,' but honestly I am not going anyway near as hard as you are, so not very fatigured usually by the end. And I'd rather do more time and less days. I really do not like going to gym on weekends. And quite frankly, Mondays at 5AM are just impossible (well, as I type this anayway. May have to do that down the road). So for now, I'll target 4 days a week to get every part in once per week. No cardio.

In refernce to my question 4, I am recovering from a dislocated shoulder. So if I just cant do that exercise with the arm, I will have to drop down on weight and do more reps. Or possibly, not do it and find a close exercise that wont do my arm in.

As for the Cal part, I have dropped down about 15-20% by doing a few simple meal modifications and timing things out a bit better. My goal on non gym days is 1900k, Gym days 2200 cals. If my BMR is 2100, would this start to get me to loose 1lb per week. That is a very open ended question, obviously.

 

[z1ggy]

It's whatever your preference is. I was just telling you mine. And not all days will you be totally exhausted, but honestly if you aren't pretty tired and sweating after leg day, you're not lifting hard enough.

Didn't you go to PT?? Your therapist should be advising you on your recovery times, etc. If you're fully healed now with no pain, then you can probably be doing all exercises, but you will be weakened due to some muscle loss over the weeks of not being able to work the shoulder. Just lighten the weight up a bit if you feel discomfort/pain.. But if you don't and the injury is healed, I don't see why you can't resume heavy lifts.

I can't really comment. You know your body more than I do. If your BMR is 2100 and you do gym 4 days a week plus a desk job, your total calorie expenditure per day is more likely closer to 3,000cal. You might be eating too little actually... But it depends how hard you are lifting. If you are going at what sounds like a medium intensity and no cardio, your TCE is probably around 2800 on days you work out, and 2600 on days you aren't.

Again, I don't know how much you currently weigh and what your metabolism is like. If it's any help, I am about 5'10'', weigh 184lb and eat 2200-2300 on days I lift, and about 2000 on days I don't. I am going for fat loss and have a medium to slow metabolism. I lift 5 days a week at a fairly high intensity and have a desk job. four weeks ago I weighed just over 188lb.. So my cal numbers are good for me personally, for fat loss.

 

[thatsright]

It's whatever your preference is. I was just telling you mine. And not all days will you be totally exhausted, but honestly if you aren't pretty tired and sweating after leg day, you're not lifting hard enough.

Didn't you go to PT?? Your therapist should be advising you on your recovery times, etc. If you're fully healed now with no pain, then you can probably be doing all exercises, but you will be weakened due to some muscle loss over the weeks of not being able to work the shoulder. Just lighten the weight up a bit if you feel discomfort/pain.. But if you don't and the injury is healed, I don't see why you can't resume heavy lifts.

I can't really comment. You know your body more than I do. If your BMR is 2100 and you do gym 4 days a week plus a desk job, your total calorie expenditure per day is more likely closer to 3,000cal. You might be eating too little actually... But it depends how hard you are lifting. If you are going at what sounds like a medium intensity and no cardio, your TCE is probably around 2800 on days you work out, and 2600 on days you aren't.

Again, I don't know how much you currently weigh and what your metabolism is like. If it's any help, I am about 5'10'', weigh 184lb and eat 2200-2300 on days I lift, and about 2000 on days I don't. I am going for fat loss and have a medium to slow metabolism. I lift 5 days a week at a fairly high intensity and have a desk job. four weeks ago I weighed just over 188lb.. So my cal numbers are good for me personally, for fat loss.

I just did leg day today. While there, I was definitely reaching limits on the amount of weight, but when I left I could ‘walk’ just fine-no jelly legs. So when you say, ‘exhausted after leg day’ do you mean when leaving or perhaps the next day it will hit me. The last time I did the same routine, I was wiped out for about a week. Soreness at every level. In any event, I will definitely add more weight, or as suggested, drop down the weight a little but do more reps.

As for PT, my therapist said its certainly ok to go back, but certain movements I just can’t do-as of today anyway. Especially on some of the machines, which is odd. After the long layoff from gym (8 months), yes definitely weaker (esp. upper body), so starting with lower weights-as expected. I’m not 100% healed up.

As for cals, I used the web calculators for BMR and maintenance cal level. I am pretty skeptical at how accurate they are. I do have a desk job where I don’t move for at least 6hrs a day. I’m shooting for 4 days a week gym, but compared to others here ‘going all out’ workouts, I’d definitely say I’m doing ‘gym lite.’ I’m not banging out 4 body parts in 25-30 minutes, or doing any HITS. I am 212lb, and 5’10”. That’s pretty bad. When I started back at it, I was doing 2400-2500 cals per day, and didn’t lose even a pound. Now that I’m down to 2100lb, still not losing anything. At the end of this week, it will be two weeks at 2100cals. My gut sez I still will not have lost any weight. Do you really thing I’m eating too little?

 

[z1ggy]

I just did leg day today. While there, I was definitely reaching limits on the amount of weight, but when I left I could ‘walk’ just fine-no jelly legs. So when you say, ‘exhausted after leg day’ do you mean when leaving or perhaps the next day it will hit me. The last time I did the same routine, I was wiped out for about a week. Soreness at every level. In any event, I will definitely add more weight, or as suggested, drop down the weight a little but do more reps.

As for PT, my therapist said its certainly ok to go back, but certain movements I just can’t do-as of today anyway. Especially on some of the machines, which is odd. After the long layoff from gym (8 months), yes definitely weaker (esp. upper body), so starting with lower weights-as expected. I’m not 100% healed up.

As for cals, I used the web calculators for BMR and maintenance cal level. I am pretty skeptical at how accurate they are. I do have a desk job where I don’t move for at least 6hrs a day. I’m shooting for 4 days a week gym, but compared to others here ‘going all out’ workouts, I’d definitely say I’m doing ‘gym lite.’ I’m not banging out 4 body parts in 25-30 minutes, or doing any HITS. I am 212lb, and 5’10”. That’s pretty bad. When I started back at it, I was doing 2400-2500 cals per day, and didn’t lose even a pound. Now that I’m down to 2100lb, still not losing anything. At the end of this week, it will be two weeks at 2100cals. My gut sez I still will not have lost any weight. Do you really thing I’m eating too little?

I did legs today as well. I did 3 sets of 8 reps for squat, and 3 sets 8 of stiff leg deadlift. My legs are def like jelly right now, and I will probably be a touch sore tomorrow, but nothing too bad. If you don't have some jelly leg after a leg work out, again... You aren't lifting hard enough. The last rep of each set should be a pretty challenging. You should be able to complete it, but with so much effort that you might need to grunt/breath heavy...You know what I mean.

Well, whatever those lifts are that involve the shoulder, just make sure there is no pain when doing them. Weakness and decreased mobility are to be expected. You'll need to work on it.

I guessed your age between 25-45. At your height and weight, your BMR is between 1950-1850cals. Given the fact you do desk work, but are working out 4 times a week, to get a rough guesstimate of your TCE, you should multiply your BMR anywhere from 1.2-1.6. 1.2 would be if you really do 'light' work outs and barely any other physical activity. 1.6 would be for if you really are pushing yourself during those work outs and maybe stay active otherwise, like doing a weekend hike or some additional sports during the week. So with that in mind, your total TCE could be anywhere from 2300-3000, it's highly dependent on your metabolism and how hard you actually push yourself in the gym. It's really a guessing game...That's why tracking every single meal you eat is very important, and weighing yourself daily for at least 4 weeks. You need to pick a place somewhere between 2500-1800 cals per day (your range minus 500cal for weight loss) and see what happens. Personally, I was eating around 2000 a day and 1800 on my off days and I wasn't loosing. After some advice from Koing, I actually UPPED my food intake to 2300/2000 and now I am loosing weight. I've been pretty strict on diet, but I've have a few total cheat days in there. Like I said, I'm down about 4lb in 4 weeks so far.

My advice: create a work out plan where you lit heavy 4x a week. Maybe something like Chest/Back one day, legs another, shoulders and abs the 3rd day, and arms the 4th. Do SOME high intensity cardio. I think because you are (sorry to say) over weight, you can benefit from it right now. Do things like Burpees, jump rope, and plyometrics. Also, start out by eating 2300cals a day. Get about 200g protein, then fill in the rest with GOOD carbs and GOOD fats. Weigh yourself every single day for 4 weeks. After 4 weeks, if you have lost <4lb, eat slightly less... Go down to 2200 cals. Repeat the process. You should probably be able to lose 1lb/week on average for a solid 3-4months, maybe even more if your body fat is high enough.

 

[thatsright]

I did legs today as well. I did 3 sets of 8 reps for squat, and 3 sets 8 of stiff leg deadlift. My legs are def like jelly right now, and I will probably be a touch sore tomorrow, but nothing too bad. If you don't have some jelly leg after a leg work out, again... You aren't lifting hard enough. The last rep of each set should be a pretty challenging. You should be able to complete it, but with so much effort that you might need to grunt/breath heavy...You know what I mean.

Well, whatever those lifts are that involve the shoulder, just make sure there is no pain when doing them. Weakness and decreased mobility are to be expected. You'll need to work on it.

I guessed your age between 25-45. At your height and weight, your BMR is between 1950-1850cals. Given the fact you do desk work, but are working out 4 times a week, to get a rough guesstimate of your TCE, you should multiply your BMR anywhere from 1.2-1.6. 1.2 would be if you really do 'light' work outs and barely any other physical activity. 1.6 would be for if you really are pushing yourself during those work outs and maybe stay active otherwise, like doing a weekend hike or some additional sports during the week. So with that in mind, your total TCE could be anywhere from 2300-3000, it's highly dependent on your metabolism and how hard you actually push yourself in the gym. It's really a guessing game...That's why tracking every single meal you eat is very important, and weighing yourself daily for at least 4 weeks. You need to pick a place somewhere between 2500-1800 cals per day (your range minus 500cal for weight loss) and see what happens. Personally, I was eating around 2000 a day and 1800 on my off days and I wasn't loosing. After some advice from Koing, I actually UPPED my food intake to 2300/2000 and now I am loosing weight. I've been pretty strict on diet, but I've have a few total cheat days in there. Like I said, I'm down about 4lb in 4 weeks so far.

My advice: create a work out plan where you lit heavy 4x a week. Maybe something like Chest/Back one day, legs another, shoulders and abs the 3rd day, and arms the 4th. Do SOME high intensity cardio. I think because you are (sorry to say) over weight, you can benefit from it right now. Do things like Burpees, jump rope, and plyometrics. Also, start out by eating 2300cals a day. Get about 200g protein, then fill in the rest with GOOD carbs and GOOD fats. Weigh yourself every single day for 4 weeks. After 4 weeks, if you have lost <4lb, eat slightly less... Go down to 2200 cals. Repeat the process. You should probably be able to lose 1lb/week on average for a solid 3-4months, maybe even more if your body fat is high enough.

Ok, I did back today and really went ‘balls to the wall’ as the saying goes. I did a few new exercises I had not done before. Since I started, I had not done my traps really at all. And when I did, not much effort. Today I did a pull down row for that-new exercise. Oh man, all the other muscles it does-I can really feel it. Did back extensions for lower back. 6 sets of 6 reps. I added weight (w/ dumbbells). First set warm up, next was 12.5lb, next 15lb, next 17.5 and then 20lb. By set 4, I was starting to feel the burn on my back and I ended at the near point of failure. Middle back I did dumbbell ‘pulls’ (I know that’s not right term) for 20, then 25, then 30 lb.-another 6x6 routine. Could feel the burn. After I left the gym, nothing felt like ‘jelly,’ but now everything does and really sore. So I would say, definitely the first time in at least a year I’ve really gone all out to the max. I know not as sophisticated or as high of weight as many here, but got to start somewhere right. Is 6x6 too much for these compound movements? It almost seems like I did more of a upper body workout (not back) as I am sore all over above the waist. And…..

You mentioned to adjust my calories. So now a bit confused. Right now I’m at 2100 cals on days I’m in gym and 1900 on days I am not. Still not losing weight as it’s been nearly two full weeks since I went down. Depressing. Before I went down, I was right at 2300 for days I workout, but was not losing weight. Now you say to go back to 2300 cals per day to try out. But if I was on this before, but didn’t lose any weight, then it sounds like your implies my weak gym routine was the reason I was not losing anything?? In fact, when I started on all of this 6 weeks ago, I’ve actually physically felt getting MORE fat. But my scale did not change at all, so perhaps it was psychosomatic. Unfortunately, I have learned to don’t rely all hopes and dreams of weight loss on a scale.

As for diet, I have it down for the most part. Over 200g of protein per day and that has not been difficult. However, another question is on carbs. Right now I’m on 135-150 per day. Should I keep at this, and then when I plateau out adjust to <90 carbs per day? Just thinking, I would try that first before going down on cals as Im really at the margin of how further down I can go cals wise. The last time I did this, that was a major breakthrough to lose the final lbs of my weight goal. Couldn’t of done it otherwise as

So now committed to going to gym 4x a week, and finally, will go all out. I am 37 and as mentioned, def overweight. I wouldn’t call myself a fatty (well, when I have clothes on anyway), but still not good. I’m thiking at some point soon, will be a good investment to hire a personal trainer for a few sessions/weeks to really give me new ideas.

 

[z1ggy]

Yup, gotta start somewhere. 6x6 is fine, I just go with the flow. If I'm feeling awesome, I might end up dong 8 sets that day, but some days I'm just sluggish and I might only do 5 or 6. And for what it's worth, I think back extensions are a waste of your time. Your energy is better spent doing heavy deadlifts. It will work your lower back the same while you also benefit from working your legs and glutes.

Well, I'm just saying sometimes when you eat TOO little for a long period of time, the body actually slows down the metabolism, making weight loss harder. I've guesstimated your TCE to be around 2700, but honestly it could be anywhere from 2300-3000, depending on your age and your overall physical activity. To be honest, it does not sound like you are not burning many calories at the gym. I'd guess each session, you burn <100 cals. It's not that you aren't working hard, but you aren't able to lift much weight yet. Not being mean here, just giving you the facts.

The carb thing... I've always debated about. I've read so many things saying to keep carbs very low, and to make sure you get enough protein, then fill the rest in with good fats, (olive oil, avocado, almonds, etc). Then I've read other sources saying it doesn't really matter, as long as you get enough protein to maintain muscle mass. Overall, I think you need a combo of both. It may slow down fat loss, but I believe in carb cycling. It's more of a body recomposition approach, but I think you slowly get the better of both worlds (fat loss & muscle gain). That is, on days you lift heavy, you eat more carbs than days you don't lift. So, personally on leg day, I eat well over 150g of carbs, and keep my fat intake lower to keep my total calories eaten about the same. On days I don't lift, or days where I only work arms, I usually keep my carbs low, probably around 75g.

Again, Im no expert on this stuff. But this is generally the approach I take and I've lost about 20lb of fat since last Feb. You don't need a personal trainer...What you need is a good diet plan and will power. If you've been over weight now for years, your body does not want to change. It may end up taking a month or two to lose the first few pounds. You need to tell your body how you want it to be by staying consistent.

 

[thatsright]

Thanks Ziggy. Would be great to also hear Koing or SociallyChallened take on all of this.

 

[z1ggy]

No prob, good luck.

Also, there's plenty of other people here who know a lot about fitness besides Koing and SC...Just sayin' 😉

 

[thatsright]

So after two weeks of droping down on cals, no weight change. Should I go up, perhaps my metabolisim is crawing along? I am freqnetly more hungry through out the day. And it is usually the kiss of death before I go to bed. I often get up at 1 or 2AM and am starving. When I started out this two months ago, my cal intake range was 2200-2400 cals per day. Should I go up to 2500 or more?

Thoughts.

 

[Pantlegz]

I would eat more, if your BMR is 2000 calories that means laying in bed just being alive is consuming 2000 calories, I would try at least 2500. I didn't read much of the novel but keep your protein at 1-1.5g/lb and maybe try some carb cycling if possible. Or possibly something like http://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/5-2-fat-loss-diet-for-lifters Or LISS post workout, it's a decent cooldown and still burns calories without interfering with ATP as long as you keep your heart-rate down. Maybe work some HIIT in for good measure. Oh and hang out in the sauna for 20-30 min after your session, not only will it increase HGH you'll also drop a good bit of water weight and I love it for recovery. Just be prepared to spend 2-3 hours in the gym and you'll drop some weight.

Just for reference my BMR is 2500 calories and I consume 4000-5000 a day just to maintain my weight.