St. Joes goes 27-0! Win Final Four?

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: pyonir

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

The fact that they're ranked higher undefeated than the teams with a tougher schedule and 1 or 2 losses accentuates Dick Vitale's opinion: that the Hawks have the best backcourt in all of NCAA, yes even better than Duke. Do they have better big men? Well, that's debatable.

I wasn't going to reply to this thread anymore, but i can't let this one go by.

WhatTF does the best backcourt in the NCAA (arguably) have to do with ranking? The reason they are ranked higher than 1-2 loss teams...is because they are undefeated and play in a "big" conference. If they were ranked so high because they have the best backcourt, then wouldn't they be ranked above Stanford? No, because Stanford is undefeated as well, and has played better teams.

Look up accentuate in the dictionary:

ac·cen·tu·ate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (k-snch-t)
tr.v. ac·cen·tu·at·ed, ac·cen·tu·at·ing, ac·cen·tu·ates
To stress or emphasize; intensify: ?enacted sweeping land-reform plans that accentuated the already chaotic pattern of landholding? (James Fallows).
Please insert foot in mouth now, and read carefully.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: Saulbadguy

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Saulbadguy

Originally posted by: Nitemare


Explain to me how winning against these teams is harder than winning at Duke, NC State, Kentucky...or for that matter anybody in the top 25?

Because they've won consistently. They've won ALL of them. Duke has only dropped 1 at home this year. NC State is undefeated at home. UK has only dropped 2. Winning on the road is hard, wherever you play. Sure, the level of talent drops in a weaker conference (A-10), but the way St Joes is handling the road games, they are proving to me and the rest of the nation that they are a GOOD team. Put Duke in the A-10, and they'd probably win out too. It doesn't discount the fact that they are a good team.

Yes they are a good team, but they are far from great. I would insult them by comparing them to the TCU football team that nearly goes undefeated every year by playing the cupcake schedule. I'm just saying they have yet to be tested by another good team. They have not played an upper tier team in a big conference all year. All of their wins have came against smaller schools in lesser known conferences or subpar teams in big conferences.

Some people act like it is the greatest even in basketball and sports history, whereas if you gave half of the top 25 St Joe's schedule, they would probably be undefeated as well. I would probably put them in my top 10 this year, but I would be hard pressed to find any reason to rank them above some teams that have 1-3 losses.

Ah..well , at least you admit they belong in the top 10. I'm not saying they are gods of the NCAA this year, but they are definately no slouch. They did stay behind 1 and 2 loss teams for quite a bit, but when those teams lose, you have to change. Besides, rankings don't matter until tourney time.

This pretty much sums it up. Next game, Saturday vs Temple. 4 left to go!

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: Saulbadguy
SP33Demon,
I hate to say this, but it seems like that anytime any team that in Philly or WVU does well you start to talk all sorts of smack. What are you..a St Joes/Temple/Villanova/Drexel/Mountaineers fan?? Come on!

Well, considering I'm a WVU alum says enough. I grew up in the Philly area, have friends and relatives (mom/dad/grandparents/g/f and her family) there too. I have friends from high school who are St. Joes alum... but hell no I'd never cheer for Temple, Drexel, or La Salle. I like Nova bball, they're decent... Penn's fun to watch as well because of their court. I have a ton of friends from Rutgers, but won't cheer for them b/c Rutgers sux!!

St.Joe's has definitely eased the pain of the Iggles losing to the Panthers though. And go Phillies, beat the Braves and Marlins this year!

 

[Saulbadguy]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: Saulbadguy
SP33Demon,
I hate to say this, but it seems like that anytime any team that in Philly or WVU does well you start to talk all sorts of smack. What are you..a St Joes/Temple/Villanova/Drexel/Mountaineers fan?? Come on!

Well, considering I'm a WVU alum says enough. I grew up in the Philly area, have friends and relatives (mom/dad/grandparents/g/f and her family) there too. I have friends from high school who are St. Joes alum... but hell no I'd never cheer for Temple, Drexel, or La Salle. I like Nova bball, they're decent... Penn's fun to watch as well because of their court. I have a ton of friends from Rutgers, but won't cheer for them b/c Rutgers sux!!

St.Joe's has definitely eased the pain of the Iggles losing to the Panthers though. And go Phillies, beat the Braves and Marlins this year!

Personally, i'm just a Tastykake fan.

Does Penn still throw sh1t on the court when they score first?

 

[pyonir]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Look up accentuate in the dictionary:

ac·cen·tu·ate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (k-snch-t)
tr.v. ac·cen·tu·at·ed, ac·cen·tu·at·ing, ac·cen·tu·ates
To stress or emphasize; intensify: ?enacted sweeping land-reform plans that accentuated the already chaotic pattern of landholding? (James Fallows).
Please insert foot in mouth now, and read carefully.

Um. I know what the word means. It does not accentuate anything. The best backcourt in basketball has nothing to do with the rankings. The fact that they are a good team and are undefeated has everything to do with the rankings. I don't see how the ranking has anything to do with Vitale's quoted statement.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: Saulbadguy

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: Saulbadguy
SP33Demon,
I hate to say this, but it seems like that anytime any team that in Philly or WVU does well you start to talk all sorts of smack. What are you..a St Joes/Temple/Villanova/Drexel/Mountaineers fan?? Come on!

Well, considering I'm a WVU alum says enough. I grew up in the Philly area, have friends and relatives (mom/dad/grandparents/g/f and her family) there too. I have friends from high school who are St. Joes alum... but hell no I'd never cheer for Temple, Drexel, or La Salle. I like Nova bball, they're decent... Penn's fun to watch as well because of their court. I have a ton of friends from Rutgers, but won't cheer for them b/c Rutgers sux!!

St.Joe's has definitely eased the pain of the Iggles losing to the Panthers though. And go Phillies, beat the Braves and Marlins this year!

Personally, i'm just a Tastykake fan.

Does Penn still throw sh1t on the court when they score first?

They may, didn't do it last time I was there (last year).

Tastykake's rock! Not to mention the Cheesesteaks with Wiz.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: pyonir

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Look up accentuate in the dictionary:

ac·cen·tu·ate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (k-snch-t)
tr.v. ac·cen·tu·at·ed, ac·cen·tu·at·ing, ac·cen·tu·ates
To stress or emphasize; intensify: ?enacted sweeping land-reform plans that accentuated the already chaotic pattern of landholding? (James Fallows).
Please insert foot in mouth now, and read carefully.

Um. I know what the word means. It does not accentuate anything. The best backcourt in basketball has nothing to do with the rankings. The fact that they are a good team and are undefeated has everything to do with the rankings. I don't see how the ranking has anything to do with Vitale's quoted statement.

"The fact that they're ranked higher undefeated than the teams with a tougher schedule and 1 or 2 losses accentuates Dick Vitale's opinion: that the Hawks have the best backcourt in all of NCAA, yes even better than Duke. Do they have better big men? Well, that's debatable."

Translation: Since St. Joe's has a higher RPI (winning percentage (25)%, schedule strength (50)%; and opponent's schedule strength (25)%) than teams with 1-2 losses but who possess a much harder schedule and play in much harder divisions; it can be attributed to the fact that the Hawks have the best backcourt in the NCAA (even better than Duke), as validated by Dick Vitale, a well known pundit and NCAA hoops Analyst.

Was that so hard to understand now? lol

 

[pyonir]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Translation: Since St. Joe's has a higher RPI (winning percentage (25)%, schedule strength (50)%; and opponent's schedule strength (25)%) than teams with 1-2 losses but who possess a much harder schedule and play in much harder divisions; it can be attributed to the fact that the Hawks have the best backcourt in the NCAA (even better than Duke), as validated by Dick Vitale, a well known pundit and NCAA hoops Analyst.

I read throught he responses again, and now i get what you are saying. I was reading it as, because they had the best back court in the nation that they were ranked higher because of it. Not because it makes them a better team, only because they have a great backcourt. (i.e. Appilachian State has the best front court in the nation (just an example) therefore they should be ranked #15 regardless of who they've played or what their record is). Get what i'm saying?

Regardless, this thread has gone way off track. St. Joes will probably go undefeated in the regular season. They will lose in the second or third round of the NCAA tournament.

BTW: i know who Dick Vitale is. You don't need to try and patronize me by stating "...a well know pundit and NCAA hoops analyst".

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: pyonir
I read throught he responses again, and now i get what you are saying. I was reading it as, because they had the best back court in the nation that they were ranked higher because of it. Not because it makes them a better team, only because they have a great backcourt. (i.e. Appilachian State has the best front court in the nation (just an example) therefore they should be ranked #15 regardless of who they've played or what their record is). Get what i'm saying?

Regardless, this thread has gone way off track. St. Joes will probably go undefeated in the regular season. They will lose in the second or third round of the NCAA tournament.

BTW: i know who Dick Vitale is. You don't need to try and patronize me by stating "...a well know pundit and NCAA hoops analyst".

It's cool, simple misunderstanding. Yes I actually meant to include RPI, which 75% accounts for strength schedule (theirs 50% + opponents 25%).

Yeah, St.Joes could make the Elite 8. If they made Final Four, I don't think they would win it all, just because at that level you realistically have a 1 in 4 chance regardless of what the odds say. Just as UNLV lost in 1991 when everyone thought they were unstoppable, I think if a team can make it to that level then they all have a legitimate shot.

You'd be surprised at how many people don't know who Dickie V is!

 

[pyonir]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

You'd be surprised at how many people don't know who Dickie V is!

Those people aren't college basketball fans and i wouldn't put any weight into what they say about college basketball.

 

[SP33Demon]

3 Games left to go after crushing Temple!

Not to mention Delonte West has a 36/36 free throw streak going... :beer:

 

[Saulbadguy]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
3 Games left to go after crushing Temple!

Not to mention Delonte West has a 36/36 free throw streak going... :beer:

We all know they are going to win their 3 final games.

 

[SP33Demon]

2 Away, won over UMass 83-58!

 

[Shlong]

I think they'll have trouble against a team with a good big man (ie: Okafor and Uconn). That being said, I think they have a good chance to get to san antonio.

 

[SP33Demon]

1 more! They squeak one out on their last road game with a nice bright red bullseye on their head, beating URI 57-55!! One more at home on Tuesday against St.Bonnie and that should cap the perfection!!

 

[Red Dawn]

Stanford would kick their ass!

 

[mpitts]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Stanford would kick their ass!

Some would say that A-10 is better top-to-bottom than the Pac-10 this year.

Plus St. Joe's has Nelson and West. I would take those two over just about anybody in college basketball this year.

 

[dangereuxjeux]

Watched the last few minutes of the St. Joes - URI matchup today... they're going to have trouble against any power team with those big men. Rebounding (at least in the end of the game) was horrific. Outrebounded by URI 39 to 25. Very sloppy, they gave URI several extra shots at the upset. Better hope they are shooting lights out (which neither Nelson or West were today) to go far with those kinda stats in the tournament.

Final Four chances - very questionable.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: dangereuxjeux
Watched the last few minutes of the St. Joes - URI matchup today... they're going to have trouble against any power team with those big men. Rebounding (at least in the end of the game) was horrific. Outrebounded by URI 39 to 25. Very sloppy, they gave URI several extra shots at the upset. Better hope they are shooting lights out (which neither Nelson or West were today) to go far with those kinda stats in the tournament.

Final Four chances - very questionable.

Announcers during the Gonzaga team specifically said that the quick teams like St.Joes give Zaga trouble (they are big) b/c they draw the big men and dish. It could go either way, to reiterate, Mich State won it all with only good guards. You're also forgetting St.Joes also has a 6-11 center, and a 7-0 freshman backup. Their fwd (starter) is only 6-5 but he's a great shooter, and they have some 6-7 to 6-9 guys as well. They just don't rebound all that well, like you said, and rely on their superstars to get it done.

 

[SP33Demon]

PERFECT SEASON!

 

[nitsuj3580]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
PERFECT SEASON!

They can really shoot it from the outside. I'd love to see Syracuse play them. 'Cuse's zone is really turning it up a notch and Warrick would have a field day against those St Joes big men. Nelson and West would be tough though and they can really whip that ball around the perimeter. Would make for a great game.

 

[Pacfanweb]

2nd round loss. St. Joe's undefeated schedule is a joke.

They've played 1 top 25 team all year. No way they get to the final 4.

If they played in a tough conference, like the ACC, they'd probably have close to 10 losses.

Maybe they'll get an easy draw and get to the 3rd round, but that's the best I see them doing.

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
2nd round loss. St. Joe's undefeated schedule is a joke.

They've played 1 top 25 team all year. No way they get to the final 4.

If they played in a tough conference, like the ACC, they'd probably have close to 10 losses.

Maybe they'll get an easy draw and get to the 3rd round, but that's the best I see them doing.

Talk is cheap! St. Joe's is counting on suckas to count them out so they will always be the underdogs. I think they'll make Elite 8, but it depends on how soon they play Pitt, I think Pitt is unstoppable this year.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
2nd round loss. St. Joe's undefeated schedule is a joke.

They've played 1 top 25 team all year. No way they get to the final 4.

If they played in a tough conference, like the ACC, they'd probably have close to 10 losses.

Maybe they'll get an easy draw and get to the 3rd round, but that's the best I see them doing.

Talk is cheap! St. Joe's is counting on suckas to count them out so they will always be the underdogs. I think they'll make Elite 8, but it depends on how soon they play Pitt, I think Pitt is unstoppable this year.

It's a fact, Jack. St. Joe's toughest opponent this year was Gonzaga. Wow, what a test. One whole game vs. a decent team. Sure, it's great to go undefeated, but nobody really knows how good they are since their schedule was weak compared to the rest of the top 20 teams.
I still say, put them in the ACC and they are close to double-digit losses.