Squat Log - Target goal 405

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brikis98

Diamond Member
Jul 5, 2005
7,253
8
0
here's the problem in your logic... how can one feasibly work the same bodypart 2-3 times a week? there really aren't enough days unless you are doing multiple bodyparts each day.... and at that point, you won't be getting much out of your workouts because you would be more concerned with the volume vs actually doing quality lifts. You can work smaller muscle groups together, but not consistently work major muscle groups without hindering progress.
Did you look at any of the beginner/intermediate routines I posted earlier? There is no logic problem there. You just repeat the same ~5 exercises 2-3 times per week each. For example, the routine in Starting Strength - which is the gold standard for beginners - consists of two workouts:

Workout A: squat 3x5, overhead press 3x5, power clean 5x3
Workout B: squat 3x5, bench press 3x5, deadlift 1x5

You workout 3 times per week on non-consecutive days and simply alternate workouts A and B. Yes, this means you squat 3 times per week, and even use the same muscle group more than once in the same workout. Believe it or not, countless beginners have made amazing progress on such a routine and didn't overtrain. In fact, the routine is made to maximize linear gains, adding at least a couple pounds to each exercise just about every workout. This means you get a whole lot stronger in a hurry.

Obviously, everyone eventually exhausts their linear gains, so the next step is an intermediate routine like the Texas Method or Bill Starr 5x5. These routines still repeat the same ~5 exercises 3 times per week, with the only difference being that volume is varied (different numbers of sets/reps depending on the day). You are expected to add weight to each exercise once per week instead of every workout, so progress is slower.

Eventually people stall on this sort of routine as well, though this usually takes a few years of training. At that point, you are moving enough weight that recovery is a serious issue and many people switch to more advanced routines, such as a body part split or exercise split to let their body recover enough between workouts. Progress is even slower, with PR's once every few weeks at most. Of course, you could start with a split routine as a beginner and you'll still make progress, but the progress won't be as fast. You'd be waiting a week or more between training the same muscle group even though it has recovered in 2 days. It's inefficient. If you believe your time is valuable, then a full body routine 2-3 times per week is typically a better choice.

Anyways, I'm getting tired of posting the same thing over and over again and totally derailing TallBill's thread, so consider this my last post on the topic. Feel free to PM me if you want to continue the discussion. Clearly, you are strong and your routine works for you. That's great. But don't assume that your routine is appropriate for trainees of every experience level.
 

Koing

Elite Member <br> Super Moderator<br> Health and F
Oct 11, 2000
16,843
2
0
Your telling me I can't squat/ do legs 3G a week?! I guess I have not trained 3G a week for the moat part of the last 11years then...

Just because some people can't/ won't doesn't mean others can not. Just vary the % so you can do it. The first month will be brutal but after that it's a lot easier and you can hammer out the squats. Have you ever heard of the Russian squat routine where you squat 3x a week for 6 weeks? It's tried and tested. The recovery sessions still bring CNS adaptation so you are better at squaring so you can squat more.

I would not recommend 20 reps to get a fat 1rm either...

Few guys can do reps of 2x bw atg.

Koing
 

Zivic

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2002
3,505
38
91
I would NEVER reccomend a person do legs 3x a week... NEVER.

You all seem to forget that a novice just walking into a gym will make gains regardless what they do.... the biggest lift is lifting their fat@ss off the couch.

Maybe I am unique in my training, but I like to spend the least amount of time in the gym as possible. I like to lift, but don't like doing anything I don't need to do, and a person can make at least as good of gains going 1x a week as they will with 3x a week. working the same body part that often leads to two issues.
1.) never fulling recovering
2.) loose focus and end up doing lesser weight, and thus not truely over loading their muscles.

I happen to have just gotten back from the gym. easy day for me today.
military and some side lateral raises. Military is getting pretty strong:
245x6
250x6
250x6

^maybe I need to start doing it 3x a week to get some real gains

edit;
you want to talk about gains. in college, my roommate was a fruity model type. not a novice to the gym by any means, but always did his isolation BS and cable cross-overs.... whatever. he worked out his little routine from Oct through December. I then convinced him to follow the principles I do. He put 50 lbs on his bench and 100 lbs on his squat over J-term (4wks) alone. and this wasn't some out of shape schmuck going into the gym for the first time. all the while cutting his gym time to about 1/3 of what it previously was. why spend the extra time in the gym if you don't need to? it becomes counter productive
 
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Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
USAPL National Raw Powerlifting records, 220lb weight class:

Squat Chad Smith 633.75 4/17/2010
Bench Press Chad Smith 473.75 7/16/2010
Deadlift Mathew Nolan 716.25 8/1/2010
Total Roosevelt Offoha 1708.50 3/21/2010
http://www.goheavy.net/records/viewrecordset.aspx?recordsetguid=4dddfdb9-46c5-401b-8d7d-13f80fce4046

So, a 620 squat and 490 bench @ 220. Guys, we are dealing with someone who would be just below the national squat record, and would have owned the national bench record, if only he'd taken the time to compete. We'd better listen up!!
 

Zivic

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2002
3,505
38
91
USAPL National Raw Powerlifting records, 220lb weight class:


http://www.goheavy.net/records/viewrecordset.aspx?recordsetguid=4dddfdb9-46c5-401b-8d7d-13f80fce4046

So, a 620 squat and 490 bench @ 220. Guys, we are dealing with someone who would be just below the national squat record, and would have owned the national bench record, if only he'd taken the time to compete. We'd better listen up!!

go ahead, doubt me.... no sweat off my @ss... and I was 222-223 lbs at the time so don't know if I could have competed at 220. Heck, looking at those records, I could loose 5 lbs, compete in the 242 lb class and hold the bench record right now.

I have a trainer at my gym that used to compete that I have known for a few yrs, and my best friend's dad still does compete. I'll ask them about what they have seen done in competition.

and for the record, it was a matter of me being too lazy to compete. Life interferes too much for me to lift yr round. I workout Oct through the end of march due to farming in the summer time. all the competitions I looked into didn't work with my timing.
 

Zivic

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2002
3,505
38
91
USAPL National Raw Powerlifting records, 220lb weight class:


http://www.goheavy.net/records/viewrecordset.aspx?recordsetguid=4dddfdb9-46c5-401b-8d7d-13f80fce4046

So, a 620 squat and 490 bench @ 220. Guys, we are dealing with someone who would be just below the national squat record, and would have owned the national bench record, if only he'd taken the time to compete. We'd better listen up!!

these numbers seem more along the lines of what I would expect to see:
LINK torecords

Open class

Squats (no wraps)
Class Lift Lifter Year Fed
220 730 Jesse Kellum 2010 PRPA
242 826 Kirk Karwoski 2004 AAU


Bench press
220 582 Mike MacDonald 1979 AAU*
242 615 Jeremy Hoornstra 2006 HARD

dead lift:
220 901 Ed Coan 1991 USPF
242 887 Ed Coan 1998 USPF


Drug Tested:
Squats (no wraps)
220 644 Russell Yee 2009 AAU
242 705 Mike Mastrean 2009 USAPL

Bench Press
220 551 Rock Lewis 1998 WDFPF
242 600 Rock Lewis 2006 100&#37;

Dead Lift
220 859 Ed Coan 1993 IPF
242 804 John Kuc 1983 ADFPA


^ those numbers seem more impressive (realistic) than those shown in the link you posted
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
Different feds - different rules. The USAPL/IPF are by far the strictest powerlifting federations. They have the most stringent lift rules as far as depth on the squat & ridiculously long pauses on the bench, along with drug testing.

The non-tested feds aren't worth using for comparisons - unless you're a roider yourself. Nothing keeping those people clean. Looking at the tested feds, the AAU is respectable, although I don't know what the * on powerlifting watch is supposed to denote (and the squat record is only 11lbs higher than USAPLs anyway).

I'm not necessarily doubting that you're strong, or that you've done some sort of a squat exercise with 620lbs on the bar. But something that was USAPL legal? No offense, but I'll believe it when I see it.
 

Zivic

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2002
3,505
38
91
Different feds - different rules. The USAPL/IPF are by far the strictest powerlifting federations. They have the most stringent lift rules as far as depth on the squat & ridiculously long pauses on the bench, along with drug testing.

The non-tested feds aren't worth using for comparisons - unless you're a roider yourself. Nothing keeping those people clean. Looking at the tested feds, the AAU is respectable, although I don't know what the * on powerlifting watch is supposed to denote (and the squat record is only 11lbs higher than USAPLs anyway).

I'm not necessarily doubting that you're strong, or that you've done some sort of a squat exercise with 620lbs on the bar. But something that was USAPL legal? No offense, but I'll believe it when I see it.

I'll tell you right now I know that lifting in the gym is FAR different that doing that same lift in a competition. I am smart enough to know that. Another thing is, if I ever got 500+ on my squats again, I would be near ecstatic.....

never done any cycles. known and been approached by people that have used. Personally I just don't care enough to go to that point. In the end, what does a 700 lbs squat or 600 lb bench do for me in my day to day life that my current lifts do not? I'm married, have a kid and get the pleasure of working 18-20 hr days, 7 days a week for the good part of the summer.

If I am being honest, I am some overweight farm boy that has a big bench press, a recovering squat and dead lift, that spends too much time on the internet in his off-season.

I did contact a friend and we have an upcoming competition in my area on feb 19th. I'll definitely look into it
 

Koing

Elite Member <br> Super Moderator<br> Health and F
Oct 11, 2000
16,843
2
0
I would NEVER reccomend a person do legs 3x a week... NEVER.

You all seem to forget that a novice just walking into a gym will make gains regardless what they do.... the biggest lift is lifting their fat@ss off the couch.

Maybe I am unique in my training, but I like to spend the least amount of time in the gym as possible. I like to lift, but don't like doing anything I don't need to do, and a person can make at least as good of gains going 1x a week as they will with 3x a week. working the same body part that often leads to two issues.
1.) never fulling recovering
2.) loose focus and end up doing lesser weight, and thus not truely over loading their muscles.

I happen to have just gotten back from the gym. easy day for me today.
military and some side lateral raises. Military is getting pretty strong:
245x6
250x6
250x6

^maybe I need to start doing it 3x a week to get some real gains

edit;
you want to talk about gains. in college, my roommate was a fruity model type. not a novice to the gym by any means, but always did his isolation BS and cable cross-overs.... whatever. he worked out his little routine from Oct through December. I then convinced him to follow the principles I do. He put 50 lbs on his bench and 100 lbs on his squat over J-term (4wks) alone. and this wasn't some out of shape schmuck going into the gym for the first time. all the while cutting his gym time to about 1/3 of what it previously was. why spend the extra time in the gym if you don't need to? it becomes counter productive

You may not but I would recommend the op to squat 3x a week to improve his squat. Get on the Russian squat routine that I tried and tested to gain 5%+ in 6 weeks for most lifters, obviously a beginner will get more then 5%.

If I was anywhere near you I'd go to the gym...but not being an awesome swimmer I can swim across the Atlantic :p

Koing
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,017
62
91
First of all, the 20 rep thing was for shits and giggles, no its not a typical part of how I train.

Secondly, certain life choices have kept me from making real strength gains with any of my lifts in the past month, although I have not lost any ground either. Still playing around with how I want to do it, as every trip to the gym feels different, but I'm in the right mindset to do this now. Just had a filthy day of trapbar deadlifts which makes me happy.
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,017
62
91
Did 5x5x275 on monday, 3x3x245 today, we'll see what friday brings, I have a feeling that the first week will be the worst with soreness.

Also contemplating doing a staggered texas method with bench press with 5x5's on friday, 3x3's on sunday, and max lift on tuesdays.
 

surfsatwerk

Lifer
Mar 6, 2008
10,110
5
81
Did 5x5x275 on monday, 3x3x245 today, we'll see what friday brings, I have a feeling that the first week will be the worst with soreness.

Also contemplating doing a staggered texas method with bench press with 5x5's on friday, 3x3's on sunday, and max lift on tuesdays.

I love doing the "trust fall" whenever I need to sit down two days after I do max effort work on squat. Handicap stalls are a godsend when nature calls.
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,017
62
91
ahhh, so you're enjoying volume day on the texas method?

Wasn't as brutal as expected, although I did start with low manageable weights.


Did 355 today as the 3rd day this week squatting, actually felt ok. If I wasn't feeling sick maybe I could have gone higher, but why try to get a short term PR on the first week?
 
Mar 22, 2002
10,483
32
81
Wasn't as brutal as expected, although I did start with low manageable weights.


Did 355 today as the 3rd day this week squatting, actually felt ok. If I wasn't feeling sick maybe I could have gone higher, but why try to get a short term PR on the first week?

Haha. It gets pretty brutal pretty fast though. I started it at my previous 5RM that I had for 3 sets. Trying it for 5 sets was so, so much harder mentally. It's good that you started a bit lighter. Hopefully you'll be able to adapt well enough to the pain beforehand :p
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,017
62
91
Haha. It gets pretty brutal pretty fast though. I started it at my previous 5RM that I had for 3 sets. Trying it for 5 sets was so, so much harder mentally. It's good that you started a bit lighter. Hopefully you'll be able to adapt well enough to the pain beforehand :p

That was the goal. After lifting for 4 years now and starting very seriously and then getting not so serious because of constant minor injuries plaguing me and then attempting to get serious again it is much easier to keep my ego in check.

But yes, I fully expect mondays to start kicking my ass soon.
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,017
62
91
5x5x285 today. Definitely not easy, but didn't have to go too long between sets.

Afterwards I did some trap bar deadlifts. (assuming bar weighs 45)

3x425
1x445
1x465
3x425
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,017
62
91
3x3x255, nice and easy like it was supposed to be. Went down slow, paused, went up slow, felt good!

On a side note, I'm going 5x5 on a lot of stuff now and really liking it.
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,017
62
91
Did 355, 360, then 365 as singles today. Was gonna be happy with a 5 lb increase but 360 wasn't that tough. Maybe had a tiny bit more in me, but I'll save it for next week.

Also doing texas method for bench and overhead press and enjoying the results with those too. Absolutely love working my shoulders again after being plagued by injury for 2+ years. Just adding shoulder mass alone makes shirts much smaller though haha.
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,017
62
91
5x5x295, went in to the gym kinda tired today but still banged it out. I have a feeling that starting next week when I try for 5x5x305 I'll have to rest 4-5 minutes between sets.

Did 1x425, 1x445, 1x465 on the trap bar dl's again at the end, was really brutal.
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,017
62
91
wheels.jpg


3x3x265 today... legs did not want to move haha... oye ve I need rest.