Spy Shots: 600HP '05 VW Phaeton R60, '04 Acura TL

[Eli]

Current VW's don't have sh!tty reliability, per se.. they do seem to be suffering from some bad quality control, though.. and that is unfortuante.

I doubt it will be a trend.

 

[Turkish]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
looks like a passat with a body kit

LoL look again, and if you still think it's like a passat, look at the pictures at VwVortex.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Shantanu
Most Americans associate Volkswagen with POS Microbuses and Beetles that hippies drove back in the 1960's. Sure, Volkswagen has come a long way since then, but they haven't come that far. That kind of image is hard to shake. When you're talking about a $150,000 vehicle, image is extremely important.

It doesn't help that the car is exceptionally mediocre for the price. Other than the 600hp, I don't understand what the $150,000 buys. Like someone said, it looks like a Passat with a body kit.

Uhh.... The H4's found in the original Bug and Microbus were very reliable. Don't shoot your mouth unless you know what you're talking about.

How many old Bugs and Buses do you see driving around? There are a lot more of them than other cars from the 50s and 60s. Think about it.

 

[Ryan]

Drooooooool, I want to hump the Acura

 

[Moonbeam]

That would be great if you were 15 and dream about your hand.

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
That would be great if you were 15 and dream about your hand.

Well, I'm 18 - close enough

 

[isekii]

Originally posted by: Xiety

Originally posted by: isekii
i dont think anyone in their right mind would pay 150k for that car

especially when you can get a porsche GT2 ?

Umm I don't think you can have that luxury in a GT2 .. look in VW Vortex pics at the end.. u'll see what I mean.

Porsche GT2 has enough Amenities for 2 people.
I highly doubt you'd be hauling a lot of people in the Phaeton anyhow.

and I do think it looks like a VW Passat with a ugly body kit.
I prefer the looks of the S4 and the S6 current and previous design. Yes i know it looks like the A4/A6 but it does have that subtle kit on it.

 

[RyanM]

Originally posted by: DrumminBoy
I dont like the front of the Phaeton at all...looks like it has an overbite or somethin

Most likely an airdam.

 

[NFS4]

For once, I agree with Shantanu:Q:Q

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: NFS4
For once, I agree with Shantanu:Q:Q

See, you're slowly turning over to the dark side (or maybe it's the opposite way around?? )!!!!! Next thing you know, you'll be saying Impalas are better than Accords

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: NFS4
For once, I agree with Shantanu:Q:Q

See, you're slowly turning over to the dark side (or maybe it's the opposite way around?? )!!!!!

Well, how DUMB can VW be? Didn't they see how much of a flop the Passat W8 was here in the US? The Phaeton will be even WORSE IMHO.

 

[imprezawrxwagon]

VW still has low quality, half of its cars are on the "cars to avoid" list by consumer reports

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: rbloedow

Originally posted by: NFS4 For once, I agree with Shantanu:Q:Q

See, you're slowly turning over to the dark side (or maybe it's the opposite way around?? )!!!!!

Well, how DUMB can VW be? Didn't they see how much of a flop the Passat W8 was here in the US? The Phaeton will be even WORSE IMHO.

I agree too, but you're not supposed to agree with Shantanu!!!!!!!!! j/k

Honestly, I don't think that VW can break into the luxo market either. The Phaeton looks like it'll fail, and I'm leery that the T'reg might not be a huge seller either (although with Americans as SUV crazy as they are, you never know).

 

[Saltin]

Honestly, I don't think that VW can break into the luxo market either. The Phaeton looks like it'll fail, and I'm leery that the T'reg might not be a huge seller either (although with Americans as SUV crazy as they are, you never know).

Of course they can. In comparison to many other brands of auto, they already are luxury cars. The fit and finish on a new VW is surpassed only by true luxury auto's (BMW, Merc, etc).

They know exactly what it takes to make a luxury car... they make Audi's after all.

I don't think this car will sell well in the US at all, but it will do ok in Europe, where they appreciate the difference between quality and plastic.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Saltin

Honestly, I don't think that VW can break into the luxo market either. The Phaeton looks like it'll fail, and I'm leery that the T'reg might not be a huge seller either (although with Americans as SUV crazy as they are, you never know).

Of course they can. In comparison to many other brands of auto, they already are luxury cars. The fit and finish on a new VW is surpassed only by true luxury auto's (BMW, Merc, etc).

They know exactly what it takes to make a luxury car... they make Audi's after all.

I don't think this car will sell well in the US at all, but it will do ok in Europe, where they appreciate the difference between quality and plastic.

And that's the problem. VW already has trouble enough trying to market Audi's in mindshare to the buying public (especially in the US). Audi's are regarded as competent vehicles, but they ALWAYS play second fiddle to BMW and Mercedes. They are never seen as an equal; just as a nagging b!tch that keeps trying to take money out their wallets.

How the hell do they expect for a "low buck" VW nameplate to get them any further than Audi with the Phaeton. IT WON'T!!!!!!! The Phaeton will get even less respect than does the Audi A8.

 

[BigSmooth]

I think that it may be possible to sell small, very affordable cars as well as super-luxury cars with the same nameplate in today's market. BMW and Mercedes both think so, as they are planning to bring the 1-Series and A-Class respectively to the U.S. IIRC. However, they have already established a high level of prestige and a loyal customer base with luxury buyers.

I believe it is much easier to go downmarket with a luxury nameplate than it is to go upmarket with a nameplate which many American buyers still associate with economy cars. If VW can pull it off I will be surprised.

 

[aphex]

Originally posted by: imprezawrxwagon
VW still has low quality, half of its cars are on the "cars to avoid" list by consumer reports

Meanwhile the Passat V6 is tied with the Accord for Top Family Sedan of the year from Consumer Reports as well....

LINK

 

[Saltin]

That's the difference between consumer perception and reality.

VW doesnt make economy cars anymore. They havent for some time. VW is of much higher quality, fit, finish and overall road manners than the average economy car, especially American economy cars.

Go to the dealership and have a seat in a new Passat GLX or a well optioned Jetta. The last thing you'll think of is economy.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Saltin
That's the difference between consumer perception and reality.

VW doesnt make economy cars anymore. They havent for some time. VW is of much higher quality, fit, finish and overall road manners than the average economy car, especially American economy cars.

Go to the dealership and have a seat in a new Passat GLX or a well optioned Jetta. The last thing you'll think of is economy.

Too bad American cars are generally more reliable and have less problems than VW cars though. And someone spending $20,000 on a Jetta or $30,000 on a Passat is a far cry from a $60,000 base Phaeton or $150,000 for a 600HP Phaeton.

 

[BigSmooth]

Originally posted by: Saltin
That's the difference between consumer perception and reality.

VW doesnt make economy cars anymore. They havent for some time. VW is of much higher quality, fit, finish and overall road manners than the average economy car, especially American economy cars.

Go to the dealership and have a seat in a new Passat GLX or a well optioned Jetta. The last thing you'll think of is economy.

Consumer perception can be more important than reality when it comes to sales. GM is running into the same problem. They are near the top of the JD Power initial quality studies, yet their own surveys show that consumers still *think* their quality is very low, and that is driving buyers to Japanese cars. They are really trying to get the word out through marketing but trying to change an opinion that has been established over the course of many years can be like trying to move a glacier.

Think of the average 7-Series or S-Class buyer. It's probably a 55-year old executive. For the better part of that person's life, Volkswagen has been an economy nameplate. When they were in their 20s and 30s, the Beetle was in its heyday. Yes, Volkswagen has definitely changed over the years, but convincing that buyer that the Phaeton is on par with the S-Class they've been pining for all their life is going to be extremely difficult at this point.

 

[Siddhartha]

Honda needs to hire an Italian car design house to help them with their styling.

 

[aphex]

Too bad American cars are generally more reliable

Dude...... C'mon

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: aphex

Too bad American cars are generally more reliable

Dude...... C'mon

As much as I hate domestic cars, I'd spend less time in the service bay in a domestic car than I would a VW. The Quality surveys seem to back that up to.

 

[mAdD INDIAN]

Originally posted by: Saltin
That's the difference between consumer perception and reality.

VW doesnt make economy cars anymore. They havent for some time. VW is of much higher quality, fit, finish and overall road manners than the average economy car, especially American economy cars.

Go to the dealership and have a seat in a new Passat GLX or a well optioned Jetta. The last thing you'll think of is economy.

Your right, the VWs of today have very well appointed in interiors. However, are they built well? Do they rattle? Yeah they do. Whats the point of having a really nice interior if it rattles? It would drive me nuts! Just ask various VW owners and they'll tell you their interior starts rattling after a few months. Sure this is a hit-or-miss with some owners having no rattles, while a lot of others do experience this.

VW's going off on the wrong tangent (in my view anyway). They have excellent percieved fit-finish, their interior materials are first-rate; however it isn't bolted down together with the same excellence. I will say this though, their exterior body fitment is excellent.

This is why Toyota and Honda are leaders. Sure their interiors don't look special (apart from the new Accord), but they are built together damn well. I'll give an example, my family owns a 99 Camry LE. While it has a pretty boring interior, its bolted down really well. Before VW designs these awesome interiors, they should work on making a flawless car.

 

[UNCjigga]

Is the Phaeton essentially the same car as the new Audi A8?? They look the same...