Spore will have DRM - deemed "Necessary"

[KeithTalent]

I've never had a problem with DRM and until I do, I will continue to purchase games with DRM. Now, the firsst time I have a major problem because of DRM, I can assure you no more games that have it will get my money.

On a side note I actually saw a Spore ad at a bus stop near my house, which is the first time I have seen a game advertised that way around here (typically just TV and print ads). It definitely grabbed my attention, so I'll be interested to see how well it does.

KT

 

[videogames101]

Originally posted by: Modular
This thread delivers!

The truth of the matter is simply this: if there was no DRM, there would be just as many people pirating (if not more). This whole "holier than thou" Robin Hood approach to pirating over DRM is the real bullshit. Buy the game or don't. Pirating is not the answer; you aren't making any statement other than proving it's a problem to the devs of a game if you pirate.

Um, no?

Look at Valve.



Excellently implemented DRM, but guess what? You can still pirate the games. But wait, I have friends who pirate alot, but they've always purchased games if they're available on steam. The fact is, DRM if done right can actually be made into a convenience, bot a nuisance, but as EA continues to fail epically on that front, more people want to pirate their games to get around, say, a 3 install limit.

 

[mindcycle]

Interesting thread. I am yet another person who will not be buying spore because of the DRM. It did look like an interesting game but i'm gonna pass.

Games will be pirated no matter what. It's always been that way and always will be. All DRM does is treat paying customers like pirates, which is something that big publishers like EA will never get. IMO it's more beneficial to reward your customers for being customers and not assume they're gonna pirate the game, which is the message DRM sends.

As mentioned many times already, a pirated copy does not equal a sale if the game could not be pirated. Pirates will pirate, paying customer will continue to pay. This is the fundamental flaw of the now popular pirate scapegoat that publishers and developers are using to bitch about loss of "projected sales". Gimme a damn break is what I say.

 

[Piuc2020]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: Eeezee
*sigh* Why do so many people here fail at reading comprehension? I never said that EA was "spiraling downward due to DRM." I stated that they're making less money because of it.

This is the last time I'm going to repeat this. If I drew it in crayon, would that help?
1) DRM costs money to implement (negative impact on profit)
2) DRM does not help sales at all (neutral impact on profit)
3) If anything, DRM only promotes primacy (negative impact on profit)
WHAT IS THE NET RESULT? LESS PROFIT
WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF A BUSINESS? TO GENERATE PROFIT
2+2 = 4, 1 = 0.9999999....

Yes, DRM does appease the shareholders, but implementing ADDITIONAL DRM does NOT. Minimal DRM is sufficient to convince a board that you are combating piracy. No, only ignorance can result in EA pushing for tighter DRM measures. "Appeasing the shareholders" does nothing to generate profit. GENERATING PROFIT appeases the shareholders. Claiming otherwise is sheer IDIOCY

Piuc2020, are you an EA employee? How do you claim to know so much about their inner workings? How do you know that they're making a financially sound decision by pushing additional levels of DRM beyond the norm? What gives you so much grand insight into these matters? You're basing your opinion on faith in EA, and that is no way to win an argument. If you're so convinced that additional levels of DRM are saving EA some money, then come up with some ideas as to how. You've agreed that DRM is not bringing in additional income. You've agreed that DRM costs money to implement. Just because EA makes tons of money doesn't mean that all of their decisions are financially correct; can we agree on that?

Explain to me how introducing an additional level of DRM is going to serve EA's best interests (maximum profit). And then explain how snake oil is a panacea. Go ahead, that will be fun.

You just can't claim that DRM is causing loss of revenue. There is no way to prove that those people pirating the game claiming it's due to DRM would absolutely buy it otherwise. Sure, it's nice to say, but I'd bet there are a good number of pirates who use DRM just an excuse. You simply can't prove that DRM = loss of a sale because you can't prove that a pirate would otherwise buy the game. Also, it's not like people sitting on a board of directors/etc. don't have experts doing their own research. These guys are going to want the "best" DRM available. Bigwigs wanting DRM was also a contributing factor to HD-DVDs demise, you can't just expect them to stop using it.

Good job, you focused on one point while ignoring the other two. Please address them
1) DRM costs money to implement
2) DRM does not help sales at all
Even if it doesn't cause a loss of revenue, the net result is LESS PROFIT one way or another.

Now, back to revenue; I'm certain that DRM does cost a loss of revenue because countless people don't buy games with excessive DRM. I'm one of them! Others on this board have been chiming in, stating that they won't purchase this game with its maximum install limits. Remember when Mass Effect was going to have similar DRM? Enough people threatened to not buy Mass Effect because of the DRM that EA was considering, and EA changed their decision. You'd have to be insane to claim that DRM has never cost a developer any revenue. I recall that a fair number of people didn't play Bioshock on PC because it had excessive DRM; a number of these people ended up pirating the game because of its DRM. Even if nobody pirated it, some people ended up never buying the game, and that is a loss of revenue.

Anyone at EA who argues for more layers of DRM needs to pull their head out of their ass and look at the facts. DRM does not prevent most piracy. The only kind of piracy DRM ever prevented was Joe Shmo from copying the disc and giving it to his friends; it has never prevented Joe Shmo from downloading a torrent of the game. Beyond basic copy protection, any DRM is just unnecessary additional cost with nothing to show for it.

If EA didn't have DRM, then they would get a lot of pressure from the bigwigs if the game didn't sell, even if it's not because of piracy, it wouldn't look good for EA that coincidentally that game also has no protection. They do it to cover their asses and to reserve the right to blame all that's wrong with the world on piracy.

That's worth a lot more than saving a few bucks from not licensing SecuROM from Sony and the money from a few romantic gamers buying the game just to make a statement.

Like I said earlier, business it's not just about 1+1=2, profit!, there are a lot of stuff you need to do in order to keep your company in business, heck, why do you think Sony is willing to lose so many money on the PS3 (according to some reports they have already burned all their PS2 profits), that should tell you enough that running a business is not just about cutting costs everywhere and trying to maximize profit in whatever way possible.

You're no rocket scientist, we as individuals have the tendency to think we are all important and that we are all conscious of stuff and they should just change because no one else sees it.

You don't think EA has tons of people researching this stuff? Are you telling me there's actually a chance EA doesn't know DRM doesn't stop piracy (and even that is not entirely true) and that there's actually a chance EA doesn't know all the stuff we talk about here? Do you think EA hasn't considered dropping DRM, they know games like Sins of a Solar Empire have done well without DRM so why don't they do it? Well, they must have a very good reason, a reason I speculated in this very same post but who knows what the actual reason is.

I just want people to understand EA is not run by mindless chimps that just can't see what is painfully obvious to even the most stupid users in forums, I don't work for EA, I actually think EA is ruining some franchises but I understand DRM is needed and I also understand making downright retarded "protests" and "statements" is pointless. After all, this is just games we are talking about.

It's about understanding the reasons behind the actions of these big publishers, when you don't try to understand and you just shield under the fact that these publishers might be run by guys with IQs of less than 80 then all you do is get angry because it's so illogical and so painfully obvious to you and this, in turn, leads you to have a very twisted perspective of the world and the only person you are hurting with that twisted perspective is yourself.

Understand DRM is there for a reason and it's here to stay, I don't like it but I've learned to live with it because I know it's not something I can change and enjoy my games. So do that or don't and don't buy video games. If you want to change things, start thinking clearly, not buying a game out of spite is laughable and the only person getting shafted is you and your so called "statement" doesn't exist anywhere but your very own imagination.

 

[Piuc2020]

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: Piuc2020


If you don't like, don't buy it, I agree with you, but not buying a game you love or that you are very interested in just as a form of protest because it has DRM is just stupid. At the end of the day I just want to relax playing a nice good game, I don't care if it has DRM or if it was made by the devil, if it's fun and it entertains me then I'll buy it, period.

Some EA published games are very good, Mass Effect PC, Burnout, Crysis, Command & Conquer, etc, EA may have dubious business practices but their developers still make great games.

You guys can go all sour, angry and bored in your heroic "protests", I'll be relaxing and having fun playing some nice games.

And its because of this attitude that EA's games will continue to get shorter and shorter, more bug ridden, and feature progressively more restrictive DRM.

Yeah because on the other hand, acting like an angsty teen and not buying any game at all for stupid reasons will definitely make the industry thrive.

I fail to see the relation between DRM and game quality.

 

[nerp]

Just buy the damn game and get over it. The DRM will be gone in a year or so anyway.

You guys are starting to sound like the 80-year-old woman having a conniption at the supermarket over a 5 cent coupon that expired last week and the cashier is refusing to honor it.

 

[mindcycle]

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
You're no rocket scientist, we as individuals have the tendency to think we are all important and that we are all conscious of stuff and they should just change because no one else sees it.

Neither are the people making these decisions at EA. Obviously. I don't think anyone in here is claiming to have any sort of inside scoop.

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
You don't think EA has tons of people researching this stuff? Are you telling me there's actually a chance EA doesn't know DRM doesn't stop piracy (and even that is not entirely true) and that there's actually a chance EA doesn't know all the stuff we talk about here? Do you think EA hasn't considered dropping DRM, they know games like Sins of a Solar Empire have done well without DRM so why don't they do it? Well, they must have a very good reason, a reason I speculated in this very same post but who knows what the actual reason is.

I'm sure someone there does know that DRM doesn't stop piracy. Unfortunately it seems that the actual person/department responsible for making the final decision doesn't.

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
I just want people to understand EA is not run by mindless chimps that just can't see what is painfully obvious to even the most stupid users in forums, I don't work for EA, I actually think EA is ruining some franchises but I understand DRM is needed and I also understand making downright retarded "protests" and "statements" is pointless. After all, this is just games we are talking about.

Protests are not only relevant but make real changes that impact the industry as a whole. Mass Effect is a perfect example of this when they dropped the 10 day activation thing because of user protest.

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
Understand DRM is there for a reason and it's here to stay, I don't like it but I've learned to live with it because I know it's not something I can change and enjoy my games. So do that or don't and don't buy video games. If you want to change things, start thinking clearly, not buying a game out of spite is laughable and the only person getting shafted is you and your so called "statement" doesn't exist anywhere but your very own imagination.

One person not buying a game because of DRM isn't going to make much of a difference, but 10,000 people would. Obviously no one can know the real number of sales lost to DRM, but it does exist. Nowadays in the PC games market, DRM is a very real concern for users. Just look at the amount of people in this tread alone that have spoken against it. For the game publishers/developers to ignore that is as ignorant as what you just said.

 

[irishScott]

All you people bitching about bad DRM, please STFU already. It gets annoying after 5 pages. Yes it's bullshit, yes it should be gone, and yes EA is full of shit. I think we can all agree on that. However, I'm not going to deny myself a good game simply because I have to wade though what has been (for me) a very small pile of bullshit.

For those of you not buying it because of DRM, it's starting to sound like the blonde who stops buying quality nail polish because she broke a nail while wearing it. If it actually causes real problems, download one of the thousands of cracks that'll be out before it's even released, and you're golden.

It's like extra paper-work. Just fill it out and get it over with. Bitching about it and refusing to fill it out like a little kid refusing to eat his veggies isn't going to make it go away.

Now in extreme cases where DRM does cause widespread problems, then protesting is certainly useful. However, it lies with the company to determine what a widespread problem is, so you really don't have that much power here.

 

[Piuc2020]

Originally posted by: mindcycle

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
You're no rocket scientist, we as individuals have the tendency to think we are all important and that we are all conscious of stuff and they should just change because no one else sees it.

Neither are the people making these decisions at EA. Obviously. I don't think anyone in here is claiming to have any sort of inside scoop.

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
You don't think EA has tons of people researching this stuff? Are you telling me there's actually a chance EA doesn't know DRM doesn't stop piracy (and even that is not entirely true) and that there's actually a chance EA doesn't know all the stuff we talk about here? Do you think EA hasn't considered dropping DRM, they know games like Sins of a Solar Empire have done well without DRM so why don't they do it? Well, they must have a very good reason, a reason I speculated in this very same post but who knows what the actual reason is.

I'm sure someone there does know that DRM doesn't stop piracy. Unfortunately it seems that the actual person/department responsible for making the final decision doesn't.

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
I just want people to understand EA is not run by mindless chimps that just can't see what is painfully obvious to even the most stupid users in forums, I don't work for EA, I actually think EA is ruining some franchises but I understand DRM is needed and I also understand making downright retarded "protests" and "statements" is pointless. After all, this is just games we are talking about.

Protests are not only relevant but make real changes that impact the industry as a whole. Mass Effect is a perfect example of this when they dropped the 10 day activation thing because of user protest.

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
Understand DRM is there for a reason and it's here to stay, I don't like it but I've learned to live with it because I know it's not something I can change and enjoy my games. So do that or don't and don't buy video games. If you want to change things, start thinking clearly, not buying a game out of spite is laughable and the only person getting shafted is you and your so called "statement" doesn't exist anywhere but your very own imagination.

One person not buying a game because of DRM isn't going to make much of a difference, but 10,000 people would. Obviously no one can know the real number of sales lost to DRM, but it does exist. Nowadays in the PC games market, DRM is a very real concern for users. Just look at the amount of people in this tread alone that have spoken against it. For the game publishers/developers to ignore that is as ignorant as what you just said.

Will you please read my posts more carefully? I never said DRM wasn't a problem, DRM is a bitch, I hate it, but I've learned to live with it. What bothers is this pedestal gamers put themselves in, publishers know all about DRM, telling them something they already know isn't going to change it.

The Mass Effect change was done because there was a BIG outcry on the forums with actual words and very bad reception by the media (not just some random dude making invisible "statements" by not buying a game, pfft), it's not like not buying a game because it has DRM or pirating it, it's these protests that really don't do anything. Also, the publisher was probably testing the waters to see how people would react, most people don't have much of a problem with DRM to the point of not buying a game because of it and that's the key word, MOST people, like 99% of the users (not kidding).

DRM actually does stop pirating somewhat, it may be a small number in the hundred thousands (10000 is a VERY small number, it's not even 1% of what Spore is likely to sell) and maybe they have decided that the small amount of people that buy the game at launch because a crack is taking a little while to come out is more important than a very small minority of angry gamers "protesting" by not buying games.

How can you say the people at EA are making bad decisions? Maybe you say so because all you can think of is you as an individual who enjoys games, but EA is becoming bigger and bigger and they are earning more and more money, in the eyes of any businessman, EA is making the RIGHT decisions. You have to understand it's not easy to make such big decisions such as removing DRM just "like that".

I'm not defending DRM, I'm just saying we'll never get anywhere with angry gamers such as yourself making such stupid things like not buying a game because they have to activate it or even worse, pirating it because you think it's fair. It's not fair, the guys at EA and the guys who make the games you pirate are probably much more successful than you, start thinking of others for a change, even if you think EA is the devil, try to understand their position. You DON'T deserve to play a game for free just because you don't agree with the DRM.

Also people misinterpret what it means to purchase a game, they think that just because they paid $50 that they have the right to do everything they ******* want with the game that cost millions to make, you don't buy "the" game, you just a buy a license to play it, the software is still property of whoever made it. As such you have to agree to the terms of whoever made that game for you to play it.

Come on, if you think 10000 gamers (I doubt it's even that much) whining like little babies and not buying the games out of spite like a child refusing to eat his veggies (thanks to however posted that analogy) matters to EA or makes a difference in the sales of a game then you just need to get some perspective.

 

[mindcycle]

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
Will you please read my posts more carefully? I never said DRM wasn't a problem, DRM is a bitch, I hate it, but I've learned to live with it. What bothers is this pedestal gamers put themselves in, publishers know all about DRM, telling them something they already know isn't going to change it.

If we all thought the way you did then you're right, nothing would change.

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
The Mass Effect change was done because there was a BIG outcry on the forums with actual words and very bad reception by the media (not just some random dude making invisible "statements" by not buying a game, pfft), it's not like not buying a game because it has DRM or pirating it, it's these protests that really don't do anything. Also, the publisher was probably testing the waters to see how people would react, most people don't have much of a problem with DRM to the point of not buying a game because of it and that's the key word, MOST people, like 99% of the users (not kidding).

99% hu?

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
I'm not defending DRM, I'm just saying we'll never get anywhere with angry gamers such as yourself making such stupid things like not buying a game because they have to activate it or even worse, pirating it because you think it's fair. It's not fair, the guys at EA and the guys who make the games you pirate are probably much more successful than you, start thinking of others for a change, even if you think EA is the devil, try to understand their position. You DON'T deserve to play a game for free just because you don't agree with the DRM.

I'm not going to pirate it, I agree, that's just stupid. I'm just not going to buy it. If that doesn't do anything and EA continues to use more and more invasive DRM I can at least know that I'm not supporting that. That's good enough for me.

 

[Piuc2020]

Originally posted by: mindcycle

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
Will you please read my posts more carefully? I never said DRM wasn't a problem, DRM is a bitch, I hate it, but I've learned to live with it. What bothers is this pedestal gamers put themselves in, publishers know all about DRM, telling them something they already know isn't going to change it.

If we all thought the way you did then you're right, nothing would change.

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
The Mass Effect change was done because there was a BIG outcry on the forums with actual words and very bad reception by the media (not just some random dude making invisible "statements" by not buying a game, pfft), it's not like not buying a game because it has DRM or pirating it, it's these protests that really don't do anything. Also, the publisher was probably testing the waters to see how people would react, most people don't have much of a problem with DRM to the point of not buying a game because of it and that's the key word, MOST people, like 99% of the users (not kidding).

99% hu?

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
I'm not defending DRM, I'm just saying we'll never get anywhere with angry gamers such as yourself making such stupid things like not buying a game because they have to activate it or even worse, pirating it because you think it's fair. It's not fair, the guys at EA and the guys who make the games you pirate are probably much more successful than you, start thinking of others for a change, even if you think EA is the devil, try to understand their position. You DON'T deserve to play a game for free just because you don't agree with the DRM.

I'm not going to pirate it, I agree, that's just stupid. I'm just not going to buy it. If that doesn't do anything and EA continues to use more and more invasive DRM I can at least know that I'm not supporting that. That's good enough for me.

If you want to complain about something, at least do it right.

99%, you say at least 10000 users won't buy the game (that's figure right out of your mouth), Spore will sell more than 1 million copies, 10000 is 1% of 1 million, of course Spore will likely sell copies nearing the 10 million mark, so suddenly the DRM wont-buy haters only represent 0.1% of the total userbase. Yeah, big difference you'll make.

My point is, complain about DRM all you want, just don't pretend sending emails to EA, pirating games a-la "Robin Hood" and making invisible statements by don't buying games is going to change anything, I hate DRM, I complain about it when I get a chance in hopes DRM will eventually fade away but that doesn't stop me from buying the games I want to play.

If you REALLY want to make a difference then enter the video game industry and show publishers they don't need DRM, you are overblowing the importance of your voice as "just a consumer" I know it sounds horrible but companies only hear their customers when a big majority of them talk, not when less than 1% talk. Yeah yeah, if we all thought like you, EA would change things, also if we all started donating money to the poor no one would be poor, stop dreaming of utopic impossible scenarios and see reality.

 

[preslove]

I normally don't care about DRM, but a 3 install limit is BULLSHIT! I wanted to buy this game, but there is no way in hell I'm giving them $50-$60 for a glorified rental.

FUCK EA!

 

[mindcycle]

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
If you want to complain about something, at least do it right.

Haha. I'm sorry, I didn't know there was a right and wrong way to voice a concern. Thanks for enlightening me.

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
99%, you say at least 10000 users won't buy the game (that's figure right out of your mouth), Spore will sell more than 1 million copies, 10000 is 1% of 1 million, of course Spore will likely sell copies nearing the 10 million mark, so suddenly the DRM wont-buy haters only represent 0.1% of the total userbase. Yeah, big difference you'll make.

Actually I said this..

Originally posted by: mindcycle
One person not buying a game because of DRM isn't going to make much of a difference, but 10,000 people would. Obviously no one can know the real number of sales lost to DRM, but it does exist.

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
My point is, complain about DRM all you want, just don't pretend sending emails to EA, pirating games a-la "Robin Hood" and making invisible statements by don't buying games is going to change anything, I hate DRM, I complain about it when I get a chance in hopes DRM will eventually fade away but that doesn't stop me from buying the games I want to play.

That's your opinion. I disagree with it but it's still just an opinion like every other post in this thread. I used to think that buying games with DRM was ok, like you, because I wanted the game, I was supporting the developer, etc.. After having a few bad experiences with DRM I don't think that any longer. If that makes me wrong in your eyes then so be it. Fact of the matter is that I won't be buying EA games and neither will countless other people because of the DRM they use. Whether or not EA cares about that is up to them to decide. In the meantime i'll spend my money on other games that don't have install limits or internet based activation. There are plenty out there. If you want to continue buying EA games then go right ahead, no one is stopping you, but hoping DRM will fade away and then supporting it by buying games with DRM is doing nothing but validating EA's decision to include it. That may be perfectly fine with you because you're playing a game you enjoy. So in that respect I say, to each his own.

 

[Piuc2020]

Originally posted by: mindcycle

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
If you want to complain about something, at least do it right.

Haha. I'm sorry, I didn't know there was a right and wrong way to voice a concern. Thanks for enlightening me.

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
99%, you say at least 10000 users won't buy the game (that's figure right out of your mouth), Spore will sell more than 1 million copies, 10000 is 1% of 1 million, of course Spore will likely sell copies nearing the 10 million mark, so suddenly the DRM wont-buy haters only represent 0.1% of the total userbase. Yeah, big difference you'll make.

Actually I said this..

Originally posted by: mindcycle
One person not buying a game because of DRM isn't going to make much of a difference, but 10,000 people would. Obviously no one can know the real number of sales lost to DRM, but it does exist.

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
My point is, complain about DRM all you want, just don't pretend sending emails to EA, pirating games a-la "Robin Hood" and making invisible statements by don't buying games is going to change anything, I hate DRM, I complain about it when I get a chance in hopes DRM will eventually fade away but that doesn't stop me from buying the games I want to play.

That's your opinion. I disagree with it but it's still just an opinion like every other post in this thread. I used to think that buying games with DRM was ok, like you, because I wanted the game, I was supporting the developer, etc.. After having a few bad experiences with DRM I don't think that any longer. If that makes me wrong in your eyes then so be it. Fact of the matter is that I won't be buying EA games and neither will countless other people because of the DRM they use. Whether or not EA cares about that is up to them to decide. In the meantime i'll spend my money on other games that don't have install limits or internet based activation. There are plenty out there. If you want to continue buying EA games then go right ahead, no one is stopping you, but hoping DRM will fade away and then supporting it by buying games with DRM is doing nothing but validating EA's decision to include it. That may be perfectly fine with you because you're playing a game you enjoy. So in that respect I say, to each his own.

Well if you dislike the DRM it's okay for you not to buy it, it's like any other con, what I think is ridiculous though is people not buying the game as some sort of protest or rebellion, out of spite if you will "just to show 'em" even if they really do want to play the game.

It's like that CAD comic, if I remember I'll post the link, where Lucas and his employer literally laugh their ass of when a customer says "well you just lost yourself a paying customer" or something to that effect, Lucas and his employer (EA) are laughing their ass off and running their business as usual while the other guy (the "we'll show 'em" anti-DRM guys) is angry that his computer is still broken.

Don't you think it's funny whenever a person says, all highly and proud, that "x" company just lost themselves a paying customer? "x" company will never know about it or if it does it won't care so basically that person is just struggling with himself/herself. You can backup your reasoning behind the fact that if many people did that then it would make a difference but the truth is most people don't and they won't.

Also, what I meant by right is if you should complain about something you might as well make it so your complaint is worth something, if you don't buy a game out of spite and make your invisible "statements" you might as well shout "*** EA" at a pillow, it'll be just as effective in the battle against DRM.

It's a thin line, it's one thing not wanting a game because you don't want to deal with DRM and in my opinion that's totally understandable but it's another thing not buying a game just out of spite, which I think is ridiculous for the person because the situation is nothing but adverse to them.

I don't know how your clarification of what you said changes anything, you clearly said that it makes a difference if 10000 people don't buy the game because of DRM and then I told you it really doesn't even one bit because it's less of the likely Spore userbase.

So yeah, that's pretty much it, I'll be enjoying my copy of Spore while all this angry people in the "anti-DRM cause" go bored and their lives are cut off a couple years short for putting their bodies through so much stress.

Eventually EA will remove DRM or find an anti-pirate scheme and finally stop developing the system (have you ever thought maybe that's why they keep developing DRM?) and find something that works for everyone.

Humans have a tendency to think that the amount of effort put into something equals directly the amount of results you'll get when that's wrong, it's now how much work you put into something, it's how you direct that effort and what work you do that matters.

It's like those guys running to stop cancer, yeah we get it, you are doing a lot of work in those marathons, we get it, you don't like cancer, if you really wanted to do something about it you would donate your money to a research lab or run F&H at your home or just accept the fact that you as an individual can't do anything or something but just because you worked your ass off or you made a big sacrifice doesn't mean you are actually DOING anything.

I digress, this is getting a bit off-topic.

 

[Modular]

About the running for cancer thing; totally OT, but they do raise a shit-ton of money that gets donated to whatever cause they are running for. Most places won't let you run unless you generate some minimum of funds.

But a quick question: what ever happened to the idea of the intrinsic value of doing something that you think is right just for the sake of knowing (or at least believing) that you are doing the right thing? I think that not buying a game to make a stand against DRM is completely and utterly appropriate, and in a similar way I think that running a marathon to fight cancer is appropriate in its way as well. What gets me is when people act like they are doing the right thing by stealing the game; as if they are on some righteous crusade to save the world from DRM by pirating content, when in actuality they are the seething underbelly of the need for DRM in the first place.

As I've said before, if you don't like the DRM that much, don't buy or pirate the game. Make a real stand against it, not some self-serving, empty statement.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Modular
This thread delivers!

The truth of the matter is simply this: if there was no DRM, there would be just as many people pirating (if not more). This whole "holier than thou" Robin Hood approach to pirating over DRM is the real bullshit. Buy the game or don't. Pirating is not the answer; you aren't making any statement other than proving it's a problem to the devs of a game if you pirate.

I agree, without any DRM then anyone could pirate, and more people would.

All you need is basic DRM that prevents the average person from directly copying the disc for a friend. Anything beyond that is ineffective.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Piuc2020

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: TheVrolok

Originally posted by: Eeezee
*sigh* Why do so many people here fail at reading comprehension? I never said that EA was "spiraling downward due to DRM." I stated that they're making less money because of it.

This is the last time I'm going to repeat this. If I drew it in crayon, would that help?
1) DRM costs money to implement (negative impact on profit)
2) DRM does not help sales at all (neutral impact on profit)
3) If anything, DRM only promotes primacy (negative impact on profit)
WHAT IS THE NET RESULT? LESS PROFIT
WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF A BUSINESS? TO GENERATE PROFIT
2+2 = 4, 1 = 0.9999999....

Yes, DRM does appease the shareholders, but implementing ADDITIONAL DRM does NOT. Minimal DRM is sufficient to convince a board that you are combating piracy. No, only ignorance can result in EA pushing for tighter DRM measures. "Appeasing the shareholders" does nothing to generate profit. GENERATING PROFIT appeases the shareholders. Claiming otherwise is sheer IDIOCY

Piuc2020, are you an EA employee? How do you claim to know so much about their inner workings? How do you know that they're making a financially sound decision by pushing additional levels of DRM beyond the norm? What gives you so much grand insight into these matters? You're basing your opinion on faith in EA, and that is no way to win an argument. If you're so convinced that additional levels of DRM are saving EA some money, then come up with some ideas as to how. You've agreed that DRM is not bringing in additional income. You've agreed that DRM costs money to implement. Just because EA makes tons of money doesn't mean that all of their decisions are financially correct; can we agree on that?

Explain to me how introducing an additional level of DRM is going to serve EA's best interests (maximum profit). And then explain how snake oil is a panacea. Go ahead, that will be fun.

You just can't claim that DRM is causing loss of revenue. There is no way to prove that those people pirating the game claiming it's due to DRM would absolutely buy it otherwise. Sure, it's nice to say, but I'd bet there are a good number of pirates who use DRM just an excuse. You simply can't prove that DRM = loss of a sale because you can't prove that a pirate would otherwise buy the game. Also, it's not like people sitting on a board of directors/etc. don't have experts doing their own research. These guys are going to want the "best" DRM available. Bigwigs wanting DRM was also a contributing factor to HD-DVDs demise, you can't just expect them to stop using it.

Good job, you focused on one point while ignoring the other two. Please address them
1) DRM costs money to implement
2) DRM does not help sales at all
Even if it doesn't cause a loss of revenue, the net result is LESS PROFIT one way or another.

Now, back to revenue; I'm certain that DRM does cost a loss of revenue because countless people don't buy games with excessive DRM. I'm one of them! Others on this board have been chiming in, stating that they won't purchase this game with its maximum install limits. Remember when Mass Effect was going to have similar DRM? Enough people threatened to not buy Mass Effect because of the DRM that EA was considering, and EA changed their decision. You'd have to be insane to claim that DRM has never cost a developer any revenue. I recall that a fair number of people didn't play Bioshock on PC because it had excessive DRM; a number of these people ended up pirating the game because of its DRM. Even if nobody pirated it, some people ended up never buying the game, and that is a loss of revenue.

Anyone at EA who argues for more layers of DRM needs to pull their head out of their ass and look at the facts. DRM does not prevent most piracy. The only kind of piracy DRM ever prevented was Joe Shmo from copying the disc and giving it to his friends; it has never prevented Joe Shmo from downloading a torrent of the game. Beyond basic copy protection, any DRM is just unnecessary additional cost with nothing to show for it.

If EA didn't have DRM, then they would get a lot of pressure from the bigwigs if the game didn't sell, even if it's not because of piracy, it wouldn't look good for EA that coincidentally that game also has no protection. They do it to cover their asses and to reserve the right to blame all that's wrong with the world on piracy.

That's worth a lot more than saving a few bucks from not licensing SecuROM from Sony and the money from a few romantic gamers buying the game just to make a statement.

Like I said earlier, business it's not just about 1+1=2, profit!, there are a lot of stuff you need to do in order to keep your company in business, heck, why do you think Sony is willing to lose so many money on the PS3 (according to some reports they have already burned all their PS2 profits), that should tell you enough that running a business is not just about cutting costs everywhere and trying to maximize profit in whatever way possible.

You're no rocket scientist, we as individuals have the tendency to think we are all important and that we are all conscious of stuff and they should just change because no one else sees it.

You don't think EA has tons of people researching this stuff? Are you telling me there's actually a chance EA doesn't know DRM doesn't stop piracy (and even that is not entirely true) and that there's actually a chance EA doesn't know all the stuff we talk about here? Do you think EA hasn't considered dropping DRM, they know games like Sins of a Solar Empire have done well without DRM so why don't they do it? Well, they must have a very good reason, a reason I speculated in this very same post but who knows what the actual reason is.

I just want people to understand EA is not run by mindless chimps that just can't see what is painfully obvious to even the most stupid users in forums, I don't work for EA, I actually think EA is ruining some franchises but I understand DRM is needed and I also understand making downright retarded "protests" and "statements" is pointless. After all, this is just games we are talking about.

It's about understanding the reasons behind the actions of these big publishers, when you don't try to understand and you just shield under the fact that these publishers might be run by guys with IQs of less than 80 then all you do is get angry because it's so illogical and so painfully obvious to you and this, in turn, leads you to have a very twisted perspective of the world and the only person you are hurting with that twisted perspective is yourself.

Understand DRM is there for a reason and it's here to stay, I don't like it but I've learned to live with it because I know it's not something I can change and enjoy my games. So do that or don't and don't buy video games. If you want to change things, start thinking clearly, not buying a game out of spite is laughable and the only person getting shafted is you and your so called "statement" doesn't exist anywhere but your very own imagination.

Actually, I AM a rocket scientist

And additional layers of DRM do nothing to further appease the corporate big wigs, we've gone over that. There are already effective DRM implementations in the wild. Trying to load more onto these games does nothing.

In one paragraph you're claiming that additional layers of DRM is being placed there to appease corporate overlords, and in the next paragraph you claim that no one at EA is moronic. That's contradictory; if the corporate overlords demand more DRM, then they're morons. So which is it?

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Piuc2020

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: Piuc2020


If you don't like, don't buy it, I agree with you, but not buying a game you love or that you are very interested in just as a form of protest because it has DRM is just stupid. At the end of the day I just want to relax playing a nice good game, I don't care if it has DRM or if it was made by the devil, if it's fun and it entertains me then I'll buy it, period.

Some EA published games are very good, Mass Effect PC, Burnout, Crysis, Command & Conquer, etc, EA may have dubious business practices but their developers still make great games.

You guys can go all sour, angry and bored in your heroic "protests", I'll be relaxing and having fun playing some nice games.

And its because of this attitude that EA's games will continue to get shorter and shorter, more bug ridden, and feature progressively more restrictive DRM.

Yeah because on the other hand, acting like an angsty teen and not buying any game at all for stupid reasons will definitely make the industry thrive.

I fail to see the relation between DRM and game quality.

If DRM prevents a game from running (you can google this for yourself, it happens to paying customers and not to pirates), then that indicates that DRM has caused a loss in game quality.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: irishScott
All you people bitching about bad DRM, please STFU already. It gets annoying after 5 pages. Yes it's bullshit, yes it should be gone, and yes EA is full of shit. I think we can all agree on that. However, I'm not going to deny myself a good game simply because I have to wade though what has been (for me) a very small pile of bullshit.

For those of you not buying it because of DRM, it's starting to sound like the blonde who stops buying quality nail polish because she broke a nail while wearing it. If it actually causes real problems, download one of the thousands of cracks that'll be out before it's even released, and you're golden.

It's like extra paper-work. Just fill it out and get it over with. Bitching about it and refusing to fill it out like a little kid refusing to eat his veggies isn't going to make it go away.

Now in extreme cases where DRM does cause widespread problems, then protesting is certainly useful. However, it lies with the company to determine what a widespread problem is, so you really don't have that much power here.

You have my permission to never open this thread again. You're welcome!

For future reference, you also have my permission to not read through 5 pages of people complaining about excessive DRM in a post about excessive DRM

 

[murphy55d]

i'm still buying it. the game looks incredible.

 

[JSt0rm]

I'm more prone to pirate a game with this kind of drm and more prone to buy a game I can download freely and install on as many computers as I want for the rest of my life or the products life ala steam. EA's distro only allows you to download for 6 months. Silly.

 

[Maximilian]

Originally posted by: irishScott
All you people bitching about bad DRM, please STFU already. It gets annoying after 5 pages. Yes it's bullshit, yes it should be gone, and yes EA is full of shit. I think we can all agree on that. However, I'm not going to deny myself a good game simply because I have to wade though what has been (for me) a very small pile of bullshit.

For those of you not buying it because of DRM, it's starting to sound like the blonde who stops buying quality nail polish because she broke a nail while wearing it. If it actually causes real problems, download one of the thousands of cracks that'll be out before it's even released, and you're golden.

It's like extra paper-work. Just fill it out and get it over with. Bitching about it and refusing to fill it out like a little kid refusing to eat his veggies isn't going to make it go away.

Now in extreme cases where DRM does cause widespread problems, then protesting is certainly useful. However, it lies with the company to determine what a widespread problem is, so you really don't have that much power here.

You know whats annoying? People who bitch about bitching, its fucking stupid. Get a grip.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: irishScott
All you people bitching about bad DRM, please STFU already. It gets annoying after 5 pages. Yes it's bullshit, yes it should be gone, and yes EA is full of shit. I think we can all agree on that. However, I'm not going to deny myself a good game simply because I have to wade though what has been (for me) a very small pile of bullshit.

For those of you not buying it because of DRM, it's starting to sound like the blonde who stops buying quality nail polish because she broke a nail while wearing it. If it actually causes real problems, download one of the thousands of cracks that'll be out before it's even released, and you're golden.

It's like extra paper-work. Just fill it out and get it over with. Bitching about it and refusing to fill it out like a little kid refusing to eat his veggies isn't going to make it go away.

Now in extreme cases where DRM does cause widespread problems, then protesting is certainly useful. However, it lies with the company to determine what a widespread problem is, so you really don't have that much power here.

no im gonna keep bitching and voting with my wallet thank you

o and this thread is still on page 1

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

Meh. I don't like it when copy protection goes wrong - nobody does. But it hasn't, in my experience, really been that common.
And let's be blunt here - PC gamers got ourselves into this mess by widespread pirating. Ain't no point in a community calling foul when an anti-theft device goes wrong, when they're the ones who've been stealing it for decades.

Beyond that...yeah, I'd rather be free of DRM headaches, all other things being equal. But let's be blunt here, all other things are not equal, and the other option isn't "The same games, with no DRM" but "Very, very few games, often of lower quality, because the investment motivation isn't there." Actually, I'm pretty heavily betting on the later, and praying that one of the consoles adopts a keyboard and mouse or that eastern europe never economically develops enough to get programmer salaries up.

 

[Piuc2020]

Originally posted by: Soviet

Originally posted by: irishScott
All you people bitching about bad DRM, please STFU already. It gets annoying after 5 pages. Yes it's bullshit, yes it should be gone, and yes EA is full of shit. I think we can all agree on that. However, I'm not going to deny myself a good game simply because I have to wade though what has been (for me) a very small pile of bullshit.

For those of you not buying it because of DRM, it's starting to sound like the blonde who stops buying quality nail polish because she broke a nail while wearing it. If it actually causes real problems, download one of the thousands of cracks that'll be out before it's even released, and you're golden.

It's like extra paper-work. Just fill it out and get it over with. Bitching about it and refusing to fill it out like a little kid refusing to eat his veggies isn't going to make it go away.

Now in extreme cases where DRM does cause widespread problems, then protesting is certainly useful. However, it lies with the company to determine what a widespread problem is, so you really don't have that much power here.

You know whats annoying? People who bitch about bitching, its fucking stupid. Get a grip.

And yet you are bitching about his bitching of bitching :roll: