Spore will have DRM - deemed "Necessary"

[QuixoticOne]

I won't be buying it. I don't support DRM or spyware or programs that I can't reinstall when / where needed at any time without begging for permission online or otherwise.

Maybe 2 years from now when it is $5.99 in the bargain bin at the store and there's already a no-CD no-DRM patch for it so I won't have to deal with its inconveniences and absurdities then I might buy it, but probably not even then.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: PhatoseAlpha
Meh. I don't like it when copy protection goes wrong - nobody does. But it hasn't, in my experience, really been that common.
And let's be blunt here - PC gamers got ourselves into this mess by widespread pirating. Ain't no point in a community calling foul when an anti-theft device goes wrong, when they're the ones who've been stealing it for decades.

Beyond that...yeah, I'd rather be free of DRM headaches, all other things being equal. But let's be blunt here, all other things are not equal, and the other option isn't "The same games, with no DRM" but "Very, very few games, often of lower quality, because the investment motivation isn't there." Actually, I'm pretty heavily betting on the later, and praying that one of the consoles adopts a keyboard and mouse or that eastern europe never economically develops enough to get programmer salaries up.

I agree to some extent, but I don't think pirating has been that rampant. PC gaming sales have been climbing every year since... well, since PC gaming started Perhaps those figures could be higher, but there's just no way to know.

I find that most people agree that some DRM is perfectly fine. For instance, everyone loves Valve. Even Blizzard uses pretty effective DRM that no one minds because it's unobtrusive. People only dislike DRM that a) breaks their computer or b) damages the gameplay experience (some DRM implementations carry memory leaks, amongst other problems)

So you've left out the third option, "The same games, with unobtrusive DRM"

 

[Maximilian]

Originally posted by: Piuc2020

Originally posted by: Soviet

Originally posted by: irishScott
All you people bitching about bad DRM, please STFU already. It gets annoying after 5 pages. Yes it's bullshit, yes it should be gone, and yes EA is full of shit. I think we can all agree on that. However, I'm not going to deny myself a good game simply because I have to wade though what has been (for me) a very small pile of bullshit.

For those of you not buying it because of DRM, it's starting to sound like the blonde who stops buying quality nail polish because she broke a nail while wearing it. If it actually causes real problems, download one of the thousands of cracks that'll be out before it's even released, and you're golden.

It's like extra paper-work. Just fill it out and get it over with. Bitching about it and refusing to fill it out like a little kid refusing to eat his veggies isn't going to make it go away.

Now in extreme cases where DRM does cause widespread problems, then protesting is certainly useful. However, it lies with the company to determine what a widespread problem is, so you really don't have that much power here.

You know whats annoying? People who bitch about bitching, its fucking stupid. Get a grip.

And yet you are bitching about his bitching of bitching :roll:

No im pointing it out, otherwise he will never know of his error. :frown:

 

[wanderer27]

The problem here is not the fact that the game has DRM, it's the type of DRM being used.

1. They're nuking our (Legally) Fair use Rights.

2. Limited installs.

3. Authentication. What happens when (not if) EA decides to use turn these Servers off?

4. Rootkit installation. This is probably what PO's me more than anything else.


I originally posted this topic because people had been asking whether Spore was going to have DRM after the Mass Effect uproar.
Effectively it seems to be identical, at least they didn't bring back the "Phone Home" (that I know of) routine every ten days.

I don't like DRM, but I'll tolerate it to a certain degree if it's not too obnoxious:

Have certain CD/DVD drives?
Sorry, I won't work on your System.

Have an Emulator?
No, can't have that, I'm not going to work.

Process Explorer?
Nope, not gonna work.

Performance/Stability issues?
Yeah, I'll cause them.


Sorry, that's just a bit too obnoxious for me.

 

[mindcycle]

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
Well if you dislike the DRM it's okay for you not to buy it, it's like any other con, what I think is ridiculous though is people not buying the game as some sort of protest or rebellion, out of spite if you will "just to show 'em" even if they really do want to play the game.

hmmm... I think most people in this thread said the reason they aren't buying the game is because of the DRM. Rebellion is something that 15 year old kids do.

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
Also, what I meant by right is if you should complain about something you might as well make it so your complaint is worth something, if you don't buy a game out of spite and make your invisible "statements" you might as well shout "*** EA" at a pillow, it'll be just as effective in the battle against DRM.

See above.

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
I don't know how your clarification of what you said changes anything, you clearly said that it makes a difference if 10000 people don't buy the game because of DRM and then I told you it really doesn't even one bit because it's less of the likely Spore userbase.

If the game costs $50, then that would be half a million in lost sales. So yeah, that might matter don't ya think? Anyway.. I was pointing out that I made up that number and it had no relevance other than to backup the point I was making.. that one person not buying a game because of DRM doesn't really matter, but 10,000 people might. (again.. made up number) You're right that it might not matter to EA, but maybe it will.. How can you claim that lost sales because of DRM won't matter. You can't.

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
Humans have a tendency to think that the amount of effort put into something equals directly the amount of results you'll get when that's wrong, it's now how much work you put into something, it's how you direct that effort and what work you do that matters.

You sound like you play too much WoW.

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
It's like those guys running to stop cancer, yeah we get it, you are doing a lot of work in those marathons, we get it, you don't like cancer, if you really wanted to do something about it you would donate your money to a research lab or run F&H at your home or just accept the fact that you as an individual can't do anything or something but just because you worked your ass off or you made a big sacrifice doesn't mean you are actually DOING anything.

I digress, this is getting a bit off-topic.

Yes you were.. but it's funny you try to make this comparison since people that run for cancer usually raise lots of money through sponsors to help fund cancer organizations.

 

[Maximilian]

Since this thread came back to the top i remembered a relevant game that relates to DRM. Ill bet noones played it though... Earth 2160!! I bought the game because it had a flashy blinking light on it in the store... and i was a fan of earth 2150, anyways you must activate the game before playing it, this includes single player, you only get "demo" mode with an unactivated game. You can activate it by:

A - Clicking the "over the internet" option which no longer frickin works, its ok though! Theres two methods of activation

B - Calling up the phone number you get when you click "over the phone" which is no longer in service it seems...

What a pile of bullshit, so i send in a photo of me holding the game i bought and also a close up shot of the CD-key on the box to the people who can activate it for me and they reply with a, please send some random key from somewhere (no not the cd key, nothing thats easy to get a hold of) anyways they took so long to get back to me i had already uninstalled the game because i realised no game is worth this bullshit. So thats the earth 2160 story, the game ill never play again because i cant!. Knowing EA, spore will end up like this too.

 

[Malladine]

Originally posted by: mindcycle

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
Well if you dislike the DRM it's okay for you not to buy it, it's like any other con, what I think is ridiculous though is people not buying the game as some sort of protest or rebellion, out of spite if you will "just to show 'em" even if they really do want to play the game.

Rebellion is something that 15 year old kids do.

That depends on who or what you're rebelling against, and why...

 

[Pia]

I'm frustrated by these companies' decisions to mess up good games with bad technology. I don't think most of the people involved are particularly stupid, but they are dealing with a complex issue with an awful lot of hidden information, inertia, ill will, and DRM salesmen paid to pick and choose facts to further their own bottom line. I don't claim to know if DRM is making or costing money to any specific game release. I can, however, work towards making it cost them.

Some DRM is good for the gamer. When a network-only game is coded defensively to make cheating less likely, that's effectively locking it up, but does the grand majority of gamers a favor. However, DRM on a single player game carries no positive expectation whatsoever for the gamer. There is a reason the majority of productive software does not have any DRM apart from entering a license number at install time (if that).

Furthermore, something like network activation turns what used to be a normal game sale into a rental of indefinite duration, changing the product's very nature.

That, by itself, is fine. I'd generally want to buy games for keeps, but if they only want to offer it as a rental, I'll rent. What's not fine, however, is still selling it on the same shelf with the other games and deceiving/misleading people about the nature of the product. That I regard as downright slimy. If you think this is accidental, look at the way 2K publicized the removal of install limits on Bioshock, and tell me that was not deliberate. They made an incredibly vague announcement, and after game sites had had time to report it as "2K removes DRM from Bioshock", they added to the initial announcement saying only the install limit is out (translation: Bioshock is still a rental). Retractions, if done at all, are done quietly and read by few.

I also am not going to pay full price for a rental. When Bioshock, ME and Spore get to $10, maybe $15, we'll talk. Same thing with stuff on Steam. I'm not setting fixed limits; I'll buy the games when they are priced reasonably in light of an assumption that the game will at some point stop working. If they want me to pay more, they are free to remove the activation and sell the game to me.

 

[wanderer27]

Originally posted by: Pia
I'm frustrated by these companies' decisions to mess up good games with bad technology. I don't think most of the people involved are particularly stupid, but they are dealing with a complex issue with an awful lot of hidden information, inertia, ill will, and DRM salesmen paid to pick and choose facts to further their own bottom line. I don't claim to know if DRM is making or costing money to any specific game release. I can, however, work towards making it cost them.

Some DRM is good for the gamer. When a network-only game is coded defensively to make cheating less likely, that's effectively locking it up, but does the grand majority of gamers a favor. However, DRM on a single player game carries no positive expectation whatsoever for the gamer. There is a reason the majority of productive software does not have any DRM apart from entering a license number at install time (if that).

Furthermore, something like network activation turns what used to be a normal game sale into a rental of indefinite duration, changing the product's very nature.

That, by itself, is fine. I'd generally want to buy games for keeps, but if they only want to offer it as a rental, I'll rent. What's not fine, however, is still selling it on the same shelf with the other games and deceiving/misleading people about the nature of the product. That I regard as downright slimy. If you think this is accidental, look at the way 2K publicized the removal of install limits on Bioshock, and tell me that was not deliberate. They made an incredibly vague announcement, and after game sites had had time to report it as "2K removes DRM from Bioshock", they added to the initial announcement saying only the install limit is out (translation: Bioshock is still a rental). Retractions, if done at all, are done quietly and read by few.

I also am not going to pay full price for a rental. When Bioshock, ME and Spore get to $10, maybe $15, we'll talk. Same thing with stuff on Steam. I'm not setting fixed limits; I'll buy the games when they are priced reasonably in light of an assumption that the game will at some point stop working. If they want me to pay more, they are free to remove the activation and sell the game to me.

Some good points.
I don't know if I'm crazy about the rental thing though, I prefer to own my games.

As for Steam, why are they do feel it's still necessary to saddle you with DRM (Bioshock and maybe ME)?
This seems kind of sneaky and underhanded to me - like maybe there's more to their DRM than they let on.

Maybe I'm just paranoid, but after the Sony Rootkit fiasco my trust level is pretty low.

 

[Genx87]

Why not just release it via steam? Why do these companies feel the need to build i this shit when they can put it on steam?

 

[Piuc2020]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Why not just release it via steam? Why do these companies feel the need to build i this shit when they can put it on steam?

Steam doesn't stop piracy, steam games (even the exclusive steam games like Valve games) are pirated just as easily and often. Besides not everyone likes Steam though it is the best digital distribution system out there.

Originally posted by: mindcycle

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
I don't know how your clarification of what you said changes anything, you clearly said that it makes a difference if 10000 people don't buy the game because of DRM and then I told you it really doesn't even one bit because it's less of the likely Spore userbase.

If the game costs $50, then that would be half a million in lost sales. So yeah, that might matter don't ya think? Anyway.. I was pointing out that I made up that number and it had no relevance other than to backup the point I was making.. that one person not buying a game because of DRM doesn't really matter, but 10,000 people might. (again.. made up number) You're right that it might not matter to EA, but maybe it will.. How can you claim that lost sales because of DRM won't matter. You can't.

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
Humans have a tendency to think that the amount of effort put into something equals directly the amount of results you'll get when that's wrong, it's now how much work you put into something, it's how you direct that effort and what work you do that matters.

You sound like you play too much WoW.

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
It's like those guys running to stop cancer, yeah we get it, you are doing a lot of work in those marathons, we get it, you don't like cancer, if you really wanted to do something about it you would donate your money to a research lab or run F&H at your home or just accept the fact that you as an individual can't do anything or something but just because you worked your ass off or you made a big sacrifice doesn't mean you are actually DOING anything.

I digress, this is getting a bit off-topic.

Yes you were.. but it's funny you try to make this comparison since people that run for cancer usually raise lots of money through sponsors to help fund cancer organizations.

Get some perspective man, $500.000 is NOTHING to a company who is making $500.000.000 from their other paying customers. It doesn't matter to EA because it's less than 1% of the total earnings, it's not significant, it seems like a big number but in the grand scheme of things it's something EA doesn't really care about or that EA even notices. It's probably less than the cost of the physical media or the bandwidth for the activation servers, it's a meaningless number for them.

What the hell does WoW have to do with anything? I don't play WoW and I don't really like it anyways. Also, if I played WoW wouldn't I think the opposite of what I said? (WoW being a game where mindless grind and time=rewards).

Well I was actually talking about some marathons and runs (cancer was just an example) where people think they'll actually achieve anything, where there are sponsors involved, then sure, yeah those are good efforts. However, I don't see any of you guys getting sponsored for not buying DRM games so my point still stands.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: mindcycle

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
Well if you dislike the DRM it's okay for you not to buy it, it's like any other con, what I think is ridiculous though is people not buying the game as some sort of protest or rebellion, out of spite if you will "just to show 'em" even if they really do want to play the game.

hmmm... I think most people in this thread said the reason they aren't buying the game is because of the DRM. Rebellion is something that 15 year old kids do.

Ever heard of the American Revolution? Yeah, only 15 year old kids bother to rebel :roll:

People who think this way deserve to be gathered up and launched into the sun. I know most of them will cooperate, because rebellion is what 15 year old kids do :laugh:

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
Also, what I meant by right is if you should complain about something you might as well make it so your complaint is worth something, if you don't buy a game out of spite and make your invisible "statements" you might as well shout "*** EA" at a pillow, it'll be just as effective in the battle against DRM.

See above.

Actually, as a consumer it's not just your right but your DUTY to vote with your wallet. Capitalism doesn't work otherwise. Please take an introductory economics class.

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
I don't know how your clarification of what you said changes anything, you clearly said that it makes a difference if 10000 people don't buy the game because of DRM and then I told you it really doesn't even one bit because it's less of the likely Spore userbase.

If the game costs $50, then that would be half a million in lost sales. So yeah, that might matter don't ya think? Anyway.. I was pointing out that I made up that number and it had no relevance other than to backup the point I was making.. that one person not buying a game because of DRM doesn't really matter, but 10,000 people might. (again.. made up number) You're right that it might not matter to EA, but maybe it will.. How can you claim that lost sales because of DRM won't matter. You can't.

Now you claim that it's a legitimate form of protest? Okay, maybe you just made a dumb comment regarding rebellion earlier. Yes, if enough people don't buy the game, that does make an impact. Piuc2020 just doesn't understand that.

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
Humans have a tendency to think that the amount of effort put into something equals directly the amount of results you'll get when that's wrong, it's now how much work you put into something, it's how you direct that effort and what work you do that matters.

You sound like you play too much WoW.

Sounds like a philosophy major, if anything. All hot air

I don't know of anyone who thinks work in = work out. Honestly, I haven't met a single person who thinks along those lines. In what universe does Piuc2020 live? WoW is a good guess

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
It's like those guys running to stop cancer, yeah we get it, you are doing a lot of work in those marathons, we get it, you don't like cancer, if you really wanted to do something about it you would donate your money to a research lab or run F&H at your home or just accept the fact that you as an individual can't do anything or something but just because you worked your ass off or you made a big sacrifice doesn't mean you are actually DOING anything.

I digress, this is getting a bit off-topic.

Yes you were.. but it's funny you try to make this comparison since people that run for cancer usually raise lots of money through sponsors to help fund cancer organizations.

Indeed, a nice fraction of research funding comes from these sorts of events.

Piuc2020, in one sentence you say that the individual is helpless to do anything about cancer, but in the previous sentence you suggested running F&H (I assume you meant Folding@Home). Do you not see the contradiction there? Just one person won't do anything, but a lot of people working toward the same goal are able to accomplish just about anything. See labor unions. See the Pyramids. See countless other examples

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Piuc2020

Originally posted by: Genx87
Why not just release it via steam? Why do these companies feel the need to build i this shit when they can put it on steam?

Steam doesn't stop piracy, steam games (even the exclusive steam games like Valve games) are pirated just as easily and often. Besides not everyone likes Steam though it is the best digital distribution system out there.

No one claimed that Steam stops piracy. Currently, it has an optimum compromise between gamer trust and DRM. Most people love Steam. Steam uses enough DRM to prevent your average Joe from pirating. It's perfect. More DRM has no effect on piracy and reduces gamer trust, causing lost sales.

Originally posted by: mindcycle

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
I don't know how your clarification of what you said changes anything, you clearly said that it makes a difference if 10000 people don't buy the game because of DRM and then I told you it really doesn't even one bit because it's less of the likely Spore userbase.

If the game costs $50, then that would be half a million in lost sales. So yeah, that might matter don't ya think? Anyway.. I was pointing out that I made up that number and it had no relevance other than to backup the point I was making.. that one person not buying a game because of DRM doesn't really matter, but 10,000 people might. (again.. made up number) You're right that it might not matter to EA, but maybe it will.. How can you claim that lost sales because of DRM won't matter. You can't.

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
Humans have a tendency to think that the amount of effort put into something equals directly the amount of results you'll get when that's wrong, it's now how much work you put into something, it's how you direct that effort and what work you do that matters.

You sound like you play too much WoW.

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
It's like those guys running to stop cancer, yeah we get it, you are doing a lot of work in those marathons, we get it, you don't like cancer, if you really wanted to do something about it you would donate your money to a research lab or run F&H at your home or just accept the fact that you as an individual can't do anything or something but just because you worked your ass off or you made a big sacrifice doesn't mean you are actually DOING anything.

I digress, this is getting a bit off-topic.

Yes you were.. but it's funny you try to make this comparison since people that run for cancer usually raise lots of money through sponsors to help fund cancer organizations.

Get some perspective man, $500.000 is NOTHING to a company who is making $500.000.000 from their other paying customers. It doesn't matter to EA because it's less than 1% of the total earnings, it's not significant, it seems like a big number but in the grand scheme of things it's something EA doesn't really care about or that EA even notices. It's probably less than the cost of the physical media or the bandwidth for the activation servers, it's a meaningless number for them.

What the hell does WoW have to do with anything? I don't play WoW and I don't really like it anyways. Also, if I played WoW wouldn't I think the opposite of what I said? (WoW being a game where mindless grind and time=rewards).

Well I was actually talking about some marathons and runs (cancer was just an example) where people think they'll actually achieve anything, where there are sponsors involved, then sure, yeah those are good efforts. However, I don't see any of you guys getting sponsored for not buying DRM games so my point still stands.

$500,000 is pretty small, but does not go unnoticed. If you'd ever actually been to one of those meetings, you'd understand. Even $100,000 lost revenue is a big deal to these people, even if their profits range in the billions.

Also, the cost of physical media for these games is somewhere in the range of $3.50

You don't need sponsors for the sort of runs and marathons that fund cancer. Public contributions are enough. You don't need that $500,000 contribution from a big corporation when you have 50,000 giving $10 a piece for some of the bigger events. Some of the larger ones can have more than 5,000 people running, each of which will have collected over $100 in contributions. You'd be surprised at how quickly it adds up.

Do you not bother looking for good deals on anything? Why bother, it's only $20 extra to go to an expensive restaurant, that's nothing when you make $50k/year!

 

[Crafty35a]

Originally posted by: Soviet
A - Clicking the "over the internet" option which no longer frickin works, its ok though! Theres two methods of activation

B - Calling up the phone number you get when you click "over the phone" which is no longer in service it seems...

<snip>

So thats the earth 2160 story, the game ill never play again because i cant!. Knowing EA, spore will end up like this too.

Are you kidding? For all of EA's screwups in the past, the one thing you can say about them is that they are not some mom and pop outfit that is going to close down their servers/phone support in a couple years. And if they ever do, you can be damn sure that they will first release a patch that removes the activation requirements.

 

[wanderer27]

Originally posted by: Crafty35a

Originally posted by: Soviet
A - Clicking the "over the internet" option which no longer frickin works, its ok though! Theres two methods of activation

B - Calling up the phone number you get when you click "over the phone" which is no longer in service it seems...

<snip>

So thats the earth 2160 story, the game ill never play again because i cant!. Knowing EA, spore will end up like this too.

Are you kidding? For all of EA's screwups in the past, the one thing you can say about them is that they are not some mom and pop outfit that is going to close down their servers/phone support in a couple years. And if they ever do, you can be damn sure that they will first release a patch that removes the activation requirements.

You have a lot more faith in EA than I do.

They sure drop(ed) support for Madden fairly quick/regularly every time they get ready for a "new" version.

I'll even throw Maxis in on this one. When the Sims came out they promised they were going to keep adding downloadable content (basically Mods) for quite some time.
That only lasted a few weeks before they pretty much abandoned it.


For Spore, I foresee a handful of patches and then they're off to develop the expansions - in this case in sounds like mainly tools (Flora creator was mentioned).

Maybe they'll change, I'm just going from past experience.

 

[mindcycle]

Originally posted by: Eeezee

Originally posted by: mindcycle

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
Well if you dislike the DRM it's okay for you not to buy it, it's like any other con, what I think is ridiculous though is people not buying the game as some sort of protest or rebellion, out of spite if you will "just to show 'em" even if they really do want to play the game.

hmmm... I think most people in this thread said the reason they aren't buying the game is because of the DRM. Rebellion is something that 15 year old kids do.

Ever heard of the American Revolution? Yeah, only 15 year old kids bother to rebel :roll:

People who think this way deserve to be gathered up and launched into the sun. I know most of them will cooperate, because rebellion is what 15 year old kids do :laugh:

Yes, dumb comment on my part. It was in the context of what picu was suggesting. That not buying the game is like yelling into a pillow. I know there is more than one definition of rebellion.

Originally posted by: Piuc2020
Humans have a tendency to think that the amount of effort put into something equals directly the amount of results you'll get when that's wrong, it's now how much work you put into something, it's how you direct that effort and what work you do that matters.

You sound like you play too much WoW.

Originally posted by: Eeezee
Sounds like a philosophy major, if anything. All hot air

I don't know of anyone who thinks work in = work out. Honestly, I haven't met a single person who thinks along those lines. In what universe does Piuc2020 live? WoW is a good guess

Yeah, this was in response to the whole, "Humans have a tendency.." comment. Like as opposed to knight elves or something. haha I was basically saying you don't get out much.

But back on topic. Protest, rebellion, whatever you want to call it.. is valid. Picu would like to think that just because there will be a larger percentage of people not worried about the DRM, that not buying the game because of DRM is somehow invalid and won't matter so we should just grow up, or whatever he trying to say.. I think most here would agree that it indeed does matter. I for one hope he gives us another one of his great analogies, like the cancer one, that was great.

 

[Maximilian]

Originally posted by: mindcycle
But back on topic. Protest, rebellion, whatever you want to call it.. is valid. Picu would like to think that just because there will be a larger percentage of people not worried about the DRM, that not buying the game because of DRM is somehow invalid and won't matter so we should just grow up, or whatever he trying to say.. I think most here would agree that it indeed does matter. I for one hope he gives us another one of his great analogies, like the cancer one, that was great.

Picu seems to be the kind of person who will turn the other cheek so EA or any other corporation can stamp on the other side of his face. A defeated beaten person who see's no point in standing up for himself or his fellow gamer and simply accepts things as they are, if the world were made of picu's we would probably all be speaking german.

 

[Eeezee]

Originally posted by: Soviet

Originally posted by: mindcycle
But back on topic. Protest, rebellion, whatever you want to call it.. is valid. Picu would like to think that just because there will be a larger percentage of people not worried about the DRM, that not buying the game because of DRM is somehow invalid and won't matter so we should just grow up, or whatever he trying to say.. I think most here would agree that it indeed does matter. I for one hope he gives us another one of his great analogies, like the cancer one, that was great.

Picu seems to be the kind of person who will turn the other cheek so EA or any other corporation can stamp on the other side of his face. A defeated beaten person who see's no point in standing up for himself or his fellow gamer and simply accepts things as they are, if the world were made of picu's we would probably all be speaking german.

To be honest, he sounds like the kid in high school who everyone picked on because he was unwilling to stand up for himself. I kind of pity him... to believe that everything you do is meaningless must be soul-crushing.