I think fair minded people with intelligence understand why Ryan did what he did and does reviews the way he does and understand that fault is not with Ryan or AnandTech and it's policies....but with AMD for not launching the polished product they should have.
To get right to the point then, this is one of a handful of cards weve ever had to recommend against.
In this weeks article I flat out avoided recommending the 290 because of its acoustic profile.
The words of a reviewer that is unbiased would never be to "recommend against." An unbiased reviewer in the case of the 290x/290 would simply state, "I can only recommend buying this card if you are ok with the additional noise over the gtx780/780ti."
Especially with such a subjective metric to be so against. If AMD was selling a card that offered 1fps in all games for $2000 dollars then by all means say "recommend against" because it's a no brainer to say it then. When the GPU offers Titan level performance for $400 with the caveat of a little extra noise just tell them about the noise. Leave out the bombastic personal opinion.
My advice to Ryan is to be careful in his upcoming reviews. People on both sides are going to be looking for any little slip in his writing moving forward. Not a good path to be going down for a reviewer who depends on his reputation to stay employed.
the point is the noise issue was overblown by ryan. i am sure he got the message by now. other reviewers like scott of techreport and brett of hardocp said the ref cooler was not too loud at uber and both said they spent considerable duration of time gaming on the R9 290/ R9 290X before forming their conclusions or opinions. remember both acknowledged the ref cooler could have been better. but they also acknowledged the outstanding value proposition and said all things considered the R9 290 was an excellent card at USD 400. this is a balanced take.
finally noise is both an objective and subjective topic. what is acceptable noise can differ from person to person. ryan cannot talk for his entire audience. maybe post a video of the fan under load. he should leave the objective data for user interpretation. ryan is there to review a product and objectively point out its pros and cons and let the user decide if he likes it or not and wants to buy it or not. he is not there to recommend anything. period.
The words of a reviewer that is unbiased would never be to "recommend against." An unbiased reviewer in the case of the 290x/290 would simply state, "I can only recommend buying this card if you are ok with the additional noise over the gtx780/780ti."
Especially with such a subjective metric to be so against. If AMD was selling a card that offered 1fps in all games for $2000 dollars then by all means say "recommend against" because it's a no brainer to say it then. When the GPU offers Titan level performance for $400 with the caveat of a little extra noise just tell them about the noise. Leave out the bombastic personal opinion.
My advice to Ryan is to be careful in his upcoming reviews. People on both sides are going to be looking for any little slip in his writing moving forward. Not a good path to be going down for a reviewer who depends on his reputation to stay employed.
the point is the noise issue was overblown by ryan.
The hell are you guys talking about? When a reviewer reviews anything they give it an aggregated score based on whatever system they have in place.
Their conclusion is ALWAYS a recommendation "this movie is a must see", "this game is an absolute must own", "avoid this car at all costs."
I've never read a review where a recommendation isn't made, what do you think those stupid badges websites like to use now like "Golden Editor's Choice Award" you think that's an objective image?
Ryan is not wrong in saying what he said, the card was louder than his personal threshold hold could tolerate, he didn't recommend the card on this alone, but the data is there for you to interpret and decide whether you agree with Ryan.
However, what Ryan did with the 780 Ti review is basically throw out a whole subset of data he collected under the guise of "it isn't out of the box performance."
Don't confuse the two things, notice this thread is about UBER MODE, the 290 doesn't have Uber mode.
Look,everyone understands you have just spent a lot of money on that 780SC.blackened23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raghu78
the point is the noise issue was overblown by ryan.
Did I seriously just read that? I can't read this with a straight face, that the AMD noise issues are overblown. At 40%, yes, it is quiet. At 55%? If you think 55% or anything past 45% is quiet on an AMD reference shroud, you're basically being disingenuous. I've owned 3 generations of ATI cards and I know what they sound like, and they're all identical under the hood - even the 290X shroud is the SAME as the 5870, 6970, and 7970 shroud. IT IS NOT quiet past 45%, it is especially not quiet compared to any Kepler shroud, and it is VERY VERY stupid that to get a quiet card that you must lose 20% performance.
The fact that you lose 20% of your performance JUST FOR a quiet fan profile is so absurd that I cannot believe people aren't more critical about AMD. There has never, in the history of GPUs, been a card that shed 20% performance for a quiet fan speed. I feel like half the people arguing in favor of the 290 shroud probably haven't owned any AMD GPU because anyone that has, knows what it sounds like, and that sound ISNT quiet past 45%....
Now with my 7970s and prior ATI cards, I could overlook this. In fact, I freaking loved my 7970s in the brief time I had them. Do you know why? I could overclock the bejebus out of my 7970s past 1100mhz without breaking a sweat and without using a stupid high fan speed. My cards were still quiet EVEN WHEN overclocked, I used 40-43% fan speed IIRC. It was acceptable in terms of acoustics - it wasn't Kepler quiet, but it was very good. Now with the 290 series of cards, you basically have to use a 55-65% fan cap (per BrentJ) to prevent any sort of throttling. I'm sorry, but that is BS. Pure BS. That's what gets me the most - I could overlook the 290 using this shroud MAYBE but with this throttling nonsense? I don't think so. AMD needs to be criticized about this because the Hawaii chip is great yet they failed to deliver on everything else about the card. AMD needs to get this message that this type of garbage, the throttling vs noise compromise is not acceptable. Oh yeah, before you say it, passing the buck to AIB makers isn't the answer either because not everyone can use an open air cooler.
I truly hope AMD gets this message somehow - they need to know that user experience matters, even if the price of the card is 20$ higher. As things are, Hawaii is an *amazing* chip but it is so marred by that reference shroud that it blows my mind. 20% performance gone for the quiet fan profile. Like I said, that is BS. This card had the potential to be THE CARD OF ALL CARDS and that opportunity was completely thrown out the window - like I said, great chip, terrible user experience especially with the quiet mode throttling.
I'm pretty sure no one will have missed your message(s)....I truly hope AMD gets this message somehow - they need to know that user experience matters, even if the price of the card is 20$ higher.
What are you talking about?I hate to break this to you but R9 290($400) owns all of NV cards from 780 down and R290X owns the NV flagship Titan as well.(remember the $1000 price tag Titan?)
780Ti barely scrapes past 290X and is SEVEN HUNDRED DOLLARS.
It's not AMD fans who are "angry"![]()
The fact that you lose 20% of your performance JUST FOR a quiet fan profile is so absurd that I cannot believe people aren't more critical about AMD. There has never, in the history of GPUs, been a card that shed 20% performance for a quiet fan speed. I feel like half the people arguing in favor of the 290 shroud probably haven't owned any AMD GPU because anyone that has, knows what it sounds like, and that sound ISNT quiet past 45%....
Your comment actually doesn't make any sense. Of course you have never seen a GPU drop performance using a quiet mode, because there has never been a quiet mode option on a reference card before...
Except for being a terrible analogy since the "uber" switch does not alter visuals or optimizations.
The closest analogy is if Nvidia decided to offer and promote a software turbo button in their drivers that upped boost clocks and perhaps fan speed and voltage beyond the shipped mode and ensured this was covered by warranty. Let's say getting this mode running was as simple as moving your mouse over to a desktop or taskbar Nvidia icon and clicking perhaps twice. Would you expect reviewers to not test that mode?
What a ridiculous rant. Nobody is condemning extra options.. Uber mode is fine, I have no problem with it as an extra option for consumers to increase performance.
The only problem is, how do you resolve it when it comes to reviews, which are supposed to be FAIR and impartial.
That's why reviews are conducted in default mode in the first place, to impose fairness. There is always extra performance to be gleaned for those that want it whether through overclocking or adjusting settings, but that should not be the focus of a baseline review, the purpose of which to showcase out of the box performance.
Re read my post. I didn't say a reviewer can't give a recommendation. I said an unbiased review should be very careful in how to recommend, or recommend against a product. The language used in the reviews was not carefully worded. Frankly, constant focus of the reviews on noise was not necessary.
Everyone agrees the cooler could be better which would in turn make the GPU more quiet. People came to that conclusion after reading countless other reviews that did not smash the reader over the head with a "NOISE BAD" hammer like Ryan's review at Anandtech.
Actually it's not even all that. It simply allows the fan to spin up faster.
Good catch.
What is wrong with this chart and why?
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How will nv entry compute card look with your policy in place and why it doesn't look this way?
Did I seriously just read that? I can't read this with a straight face, that the AMD noise issues are overblown. At 40%, yes, it is quiet. At 55%? If you think 55% or anything past 45% is quiet on an AMD reference shroud, you're basically being disingenuous. I've owned 3 generations of ATI cards and I know what they sound like, and they're all identical under the hood - even the 290X shroud is the SAME as the 5870, 6970, and 7970 shroud. IT IS NOT quiet past 45%, it is especially not quiet compared to any Kepler shroud, and it is VERY VERY stupid that to get a quiet card that you must lose 20% performance.
blackened23 said:I'm talking manual fan speeds. You know, there have been utilities for adjusting manual fan speed to comfortable levels, for YEARS.............and there hasn't been a GPU that tanked your performance for using a reasonably quiet fan speed. Not the 5870, not the 6970, not the GTX 280, etc......
Well as you explained yourself you dont use the uber because you might miss the delivery man?
Honestly, its because its TWICE the workload to bench the same card at two different conditions.
It's NOT a reviewer friendly option with these bios switches AMD is doing. In future, they need to drop it and go full reliance on powertune boost, that with a $10 more expensive reference cooler will solve all their issues.
So indeed, AMD needs to be sent a message, because from their prior history, they simply don't get it unless they are told. Its the same story over again, AMD, awesome engineers, horrible management. Who thought it was wise to put essentially the same 7970 reference heatsink on it? That person needs to be fired.
I agree with the way this chart was done. It would be completely unrealistic to not engage DP mode on Titan while testing DP performance. The results given would be worthless.
I also agree though that it's not the default setting so it appears to be a double standard.
GOOD. This needs to be done. I've said it before but noise is only part of the problem, the other MUCH BIGGER problem is throttling that results from that crap cooler.
AMD needs to understand that this is not acceptable - too much noise is not acceptable, and throttling with quiet acoustics is REALLY NOT acceptable. I personally hope that other review websites send this message as well. The fact that the 290 and 290X cards require a 20% drop in performance for a quiet fan profile is downright RETARDED. Come on, are you kidding me? How can anyone defend this crap? AMD should have made a better shroud. Period. I hope more websites make this message loud and clear to AMD that they screwed up, people do care about reference blower quality because not everyone is able to use an aftermarket design.
Good LORD. You people need to stop acting like AMD is the bullied victim here. THIS IS THEIR FAULT. PERIOD. I praised the 7970 back in the day because I thought it was a great GPU but it also DID NOT require an insanely high fan profile for good overclocked performance. I didn't lose 20% performance at 40% fan - I could overclock to 1100 *WITH* 40% fan. The GPU landscape has changed. This is not and should not be acceptable, and only if consumers and review websites hammer that point repeatedly will AMD get the message.
You are still completely ignoring the fact that the 780 also throttles with the very expensive Titan cooler. These cards will not operate without reducing clocks with a 2 slot blower style cooler, even a really expensive one like they use on the Titan. To operate at their full potential they require an open air design or possible an over sized blower cooler. This is what the AIB's offer us and AMD is happy to allow them to do that.