AnandThenMan
Diamond Member
- Nov 11, 2004
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Basically it boils down to demanding a better product as a consumer. Apparently, some of you dont' want better products, and are happy that AMD is forcing this compromise. Now, I think the 290 is a heck of a card performance wise but the throttling and noise compromise is complete nonsense. This compromise has NEVER existed on any prior card.
Basically it boils down to demanding a better product as a consumer. Apparently, some of you dont' want better products, and are happy that AMD is forcing this compromise. Now,
How many times can one person try to make the same point?
The most common sense thing would be do the review in regular mode against the stock of the other card. Then, at the end of the review do an additional review with the other feature with the caveat that this is not the default mode and this is why the scores are listed separate and alone, and maybe those scores should be best compared to OC 780 models.
It is pretty obvious that AMD was targeting the 780 in quiet mode and the Titan in Uber Mode...trying to kill two birds with one stone (which is why they tried to trump it up as the Titan Killer). The problem is Nvidia dropped the price of the 780 negating the advantage, so AMD then updated the driver of the 290 to try to put heat on the 780 because in it's regular profile it (the 290) was up against the $329 770 which would have had it over priced.
Basically, Nvidia just out played AMD with this, and even though AMD does have some great great cards at killer price points...they both come with very big drawbacks as the cards were made to operate at their threshold by default rather than have them run cooler with more potential to overclock.
I cannot emphasize enough that AMD fans trying to nitpick AnandTech and Ryan about this is one of the worst cases of sour grapes I've ever seen. Just admit that while AMD has some great cards, they just got outplayed by Nvidia because they did not have the foresight to put a better cooler on their card after deciding to allow it to run at it's peak threshold.
How many times can one person try to make the same point?
Believe me. It happens. Most GPU buyers dont' spend their times on forums like this and just want to know the frames per second. You guys need to demand better products as consumers. A GPU that requires the user to compromise between noise and performance isn't kosher - like I said, there has never been such a GPU, ever that i'm aware of. What GPU required a 20% drop in performance for quiet operation prior to the 290? Name one. Please. This is new territory and it isn't good territory at that.
A consumer demanding a better product would ask for a shroud that didn't require a BIOS switch for maximum performance and good acoustics - the Titan uses about 10 watts less than the 290X yet the acoustic quality is leaps and bounds better. If AMD had decided to put some effort into their shroud engineering, this would be a non issue. We would have uber performance without uber noise. We would also have quiet mode with uber level performance.
Basically it boils down to demanding a better product as a consumer. Apparently, some of you dont' want better products, and are happy that AMD is forcing this compromise. Now, I think the 290 is a heck of a card performance wise but the throttling and noise compromise is complete nonsense. This compromise has NEVER existed on any prior card. IMHO, AMD needs to get this message and if anything they should start work on a "B" revision of cards that has a much more versatile shroud. That would be a better product. That would be a more balanced product. That would completely eliminate the quiet mode throttling and the uber mode noise - this would give consumers a better product, which is what AMD should do.
Basically it boils down to demanding a better product as a consumer. Apparently, some of you dont' want better products, and are happy that AMD is forcing this compromise.
We all agree with the ideal of wanting better everything.
But better stuff usually costs more.
So, you can continue to make your point over and over as an ideal, but it seems like you are omitting the point that demanding higher quality means expecting to pay a higher price.
Are you saying we should just pay higher prices - that top-tier video cards *SHOULD* cost $1000 and should come with the very best coolers that technology can muster?
I'm not sure, but I think you are arguing for doing away with the concept of low price (that entails a noisy cooler), because (sort of like the review) you are allergic to noise?
We should reject lower price and all value segments, and only accept luxury tier products and high prices?
That's my long winded-way of saying that I think you are simplifying the situation by failing to acknowledge low-price as part of the equation, and that it's unlikely that a high-quality cooler can magically appear without increasing the price.
Demanding a better product my ass. You get a choice of product with this. Should AMD have spent another $20 on the Titan cooler instead, and charged a thousand bucks? Would that have been a "better product"?
No, they should have charged another 20-30$ on the cooler on charged 20-30$ more. Period. Then we wouldn't have this controversy over Ryan Smith and uber vs quiet mode testing, we wouldn't have the Toms controversy, and we wouldn't have forums filled with complaints of noise vs throttling compomises. This could have been prevented with a better cooler, Ryan Smith wouldn't even have to mention this had AMD installed a better cooler.
Apparently, asking for a better and more complete product as a consumer is too much for you guys. I'm just lost for words. After all the controversy around the web and every single review hitting the noise vs throttling issue, you'd think that everyone would admit that "AMD screwed up". Apparently not? Price isn't everything. I freaking guarantee you, for every 1 person that bought the 290 based on performance and price alone, another 2 people didn't buy based on reading the reports on throttling and noise. You can take that to the bank. And that could have been ENTIRELY prevented by AMD.
No, they should have charged another 20-30$ on the cooler on charged 20-30$ more for the SKU. Period. Then we wouldn't have this controversy over Ryan Smith and uber vs quiet mode testing, we wouldn't have the Toms controversy, and we wouldn't have forums filled with complaints of noise vs throttling compomises. This could have been prevented with a better cooler, Ryan Smith wouldn't even have to mention this had AMD installed a better cooler - I can't stress enough that user experience matters, and this should not have been an issue in the first place.
Apparently, asking for a better and more complete product as a consumer is too much for you guys. I'm just lost for words. After all the controversy around the web and every single review hitting the noise vs throttling issue, you'd think that everyone would admit that "AMD screwed up". Apparently not? Price isn't everything. I freaking guarantee you, for every 1 person that bought the 290 based on performance and price alone, another 2 people didn't buy based on reading the reports on throttling and noise. You can take that to the bank. And that could have been ENTIRELY prevented by AMD.
Again, I was really really excited about the 290 series prior to launch. Performance wise it delivers, but IMHO it compromises on the user experience too much - and it shouldn't even if it costs slightly more. Nvidia sells cards based on user experience; AMD needs to take note of this.
There isn't a single soul who is not demanding a better cooler for these cards
The Powertune tech itself is quite something, hell even AT's very own Ryan reckons nVidia will probably come out with a similar variation.Some review sights think the noise issue is overstated, what does that tell you?
Who is they?Not worth any more of your time. Nor mine, really. They will just continue to ignore you and everything you say. That is why I took the gloves off earlier in this thread and posted what I did. They are basically littering the forum with nonsense. This probably has more to do with AMD launching a campaign against the bad review than listening to your advice. They don't want to hear what you have to say in rebuttal. They are right and you are wrong. They are convinced of this because Nvidia got the upper hand due to AMD's mishaps and they are angry about it because AMD has been walking an uphill battle this last year. They really needed Hawaii to make a big splash...and this puts a damper on an otherwise great product. And, the thing is..the more they keep on griping...the worse they look because it reeks of desperation. I think fair minded people with intelligence understand why Ryan did what he did and does reviews the way he does and understand that fault is not with Ryan or AnandTech and it's policies....but with AMD for not launching the polished product they should have.
And to those saying this is an opinion piece and not objective...Well, if you don't want the opinion of the reviewer...don't read the review. Just look at the pictures/graphs and make up your own mind. Pretty simple.
And to those saying this is an opinion piece and not objective...Well, if you don't want the opinion of the reviewer...don't read the review. Just look at the pictures/graphs and make up your own mind. Pretty simple.
No, they should have charged another 20-30$ on the cooler on charged 20-30$ more for the SKU. .
Apparently, asking for a better and more complete product as a consumer is too much for you guys.
"it’s admittedly not very often that we write a negative video card review"
"great deal of confusion and a tinge of sadness"
"At 57.2dB the 290 is a loud card. A very loud card. An unreasonably loud card."
"this is one of a handful of cards we’ve ever had to recommend against"
"point where a video card is simply too loud"
"an unreasonable level of noise."
"the reference 290 untenable as a purchase"
Objective review.
Test uber mode.
Test silent mode.
Test overclocking to give an idea of how far the card can go and how it will overclock.
Provide power consumption, noise and heat for all the modes and overclocking.
Conclusion.
Say that you don't like the noise.
People will agree or disagree. No problem. Noise is subjective (although previous reviews might indicate a change in position, but hey, time goes on, people get older and maybe they care more for comfort over money).
Omitting a feature of the card because one decides the noise is too much in his own opinion - not objective.
More information is better. We can all agree on that, right?Objective review.
Test uber mode.
Test silent mode.
Test overclocking to give an idea of how far the card can go and how it will overclock.
Provide power consumption, noise and heat for all the modes and overclocking.
Conclusion.
Say that you don't like the noise.
Welcome to the debate. Hard to do that if Ryan et al discards half of the test data, or never conducts the test in the first place isn't it?Just look at the pictures/graphs and make up your own mind. Pretty simple.
They are right and you are wrong.
I hate to break this to you but R9 290($400) owns all of NV cards from 780 down and R290X owns the NV flagship Titan as well.(remember the $1000 price tag Titan?)Not worth any more of your time. Nor mine, really. They will just continue to ignore you and everything you say. That is why I took the gloves off earlier in this thread and posted what I did. They are basically littering the forum with nonsense. This probably has more to do with AMD launching a campaign against the bad review than listening to your advice. They don't want to hear what you have to say in rebuttal. They are right and you are wrong. They are convinced of this because Nvidia got the upper hand due to AMD's mishaps and they are angry about it because AMD has been walking an uphill battle this last year. They really needed Hawaii to make a big splash...and this puts a damper on an otherwise great product. And, the thing is..the more they keep on griping...the worse they look because it reeks of desperation. I think fair minded people with intelligence understand why Ryan did what he did and does reviews the way he does and understand that fault is not with Ryan or AnandTech and it's policies....but with AMD for not launching the polished product they should have.
And to those saying this is an opinion piece and not objective...Well, if you don't want the opinion of the reviewer...don't read the review. Just look at the pictures/graphs and make up your own mind. Pretty simple.