Speed3, GTI or WRX?

[z1ggy]

My points of comparison are my car ('98 Grand Prix), several Infiniti G's, and a Mitsu Ralliart. The turbo lag was disgusting, I tried to jump through a yellow, and it just chugged along until after the intersection before the boost finally kicked in. Off boost, it was sluggish. On highway, going from 80 up to 90 took forever, it felt like the motor/gearing/whatever was running out of steam. If I wanted to accelerate (i.e. 40 to 50 or whatever), it was a matter of hitting the pedal, counting off a second or two, and then it took off like a bat out of hell. Obviously, the 2008's were known to be low on power, but the auto was just a little too slow on shifts.

Handling though... I went through a 45 MPH curve, at 70, and my father told me I could go faster than that, not realizing it was already doing 70. It was just so stable, so rock solid, point where you want it and it goes there.

This is another point- which has the best suspension? I sort of "take pride" in the fact my impreza now I can take turns from a sign saying 35mph going 55 or 60mph and feel safe. This relates tho the on ramp thing as well. Here in CT for some reason they think its okay to have 35mph or 25mph on ramps going to a 65mph highway and the merge distance is really short. It would be nice to take that going 50 and then turbo boost it to 65 or 70 with out even twitching. I know all three will probably do this, but perhaps there are differences in feeling, roll, etc?

 

[MotF Bane]

If you want something that goes through corners fast, the Evo X is supposed to be... rather nice. I remember trying to shove the top of the body to see if it rocked at all, and it was like pushing against a building. They wouldn't let me drive it.

 

[Zap]

If you want something that goes through corners fast, the Evo X is supposed to be... rather nice. I remember trying to shove the top of the body to see if it rocked at all, and it was like pushing against a building. They wouldn't let me drive it.

Then look for another dealer. One dealer wouldn't let my wife and I drive an STI that was on their lot, so we took our business elsewhere. Speaking of the STI, it is super stiff like that. When I got my Mazdaspeed 6 I thought it was really stiff compared to my Contour SVT before it. My wife's WRX is really stiff compared to my Mazdaspeed 6. We drove an STI at the dealer where we purchased our WRX and it was more stiff than the WRX.

I would have hit it, but I guess the STI was a bit too hardcore for my wife.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

This is another point- which has the best suspension? I sort of "take pride" in the fact my impreza now I can take turns from a sign saying 35mph going 55 or 60mph and feel safe. This relates tho the on ramp thing as well. Here in CT for some reason they think its okay to have 35mph or 25mph on ramps going to a 65mph highway and the merge distance is really short. It would be nice to take that going 50 and then turbo boost it to 65 or 70 with out even twitching. I know all three will probably do this, but perhaps there are differences in feeling, roll, etc?

All the cars will have a different feel, go drive them.

 

[MotF Bane]

Then look for another dealer. One dealer wouldn't let my wife and I drive an STI that was on their lot, so we took our business elsewhere. Speaking of the STI, it is super stiff like that. When I got my Mazdaspeed 6 I thought it was really stiff compared to my Contour SVT before it. My wife's WRX is really stiff compared to my Mazdaspeed 6. We drove an STI at the dealer where we purchased our WRX and it was more stiff than the WRX.

I would have hit it, but I guess the STI was a bit too hardcore for my wife.

In fairness to the dealer, I'm a 21 year old student, and there's no way in hell I'd have the money to be buying an Evo. If I were them, I'd be hesitant too.

The WRX wasn't too harsh for my tastes at all. STI sounds fun.

 

[ballmode]

I agree with this, but the savings on a regular WRX can go along way into making it faster.

Sure the trans isn't as good, but for 95% of the people out there the WRX with a bit of smaller parts and tune will be the way to go. Me, I would kick myself or not getting the STI, but then again, I am a mitsu guy and would opt for an evo

Surprised people talk all day about wrx and not mention lancer ralliart

 

[ballmode]

26, 2 pts on my record, no accidents 2004 wrx

62 dollars a month full coverage with 500 deductible

USAA ftw

 

[Zivic]

Surprised people talk all day about wrx and not mention lancer ralliart

Your point?

We weren't ever talking about the ralliart.



My money would be spent on an evo. Better driver's car and takes to mods better.


Here's my stock block, stock cam evo IX with an FP red turbo on E85. Let's see your WRX pull this:

 

[punjabiplaya]

inb4exdeath's dyno charts

 

[MotF Bane]

inb4exdeath's dyno charts

I can't blame him for showing those off.

t

 

[Zivic]

inb4exdeath's dyno charts

well his car is a V8.... so technically if I had 8 cylinders mine would be damn near 1100...

just sayin'

 

[ballmode]

Reason why I mention the Ralliart is because the Sti/Evo are 35k+ new, the MS3/GTI/WRX/Ralliart are under 30k

everybody compares these three cars but leaves out another 4 door sport compact and it has a turbo and it has AWD

I've really only seen once comparison on that car and it was on Edmunds, the wheels were heavy, the power was lacking, and people have quoted lots of turbo lag. Don't know as I've never even sat in one nor seen one even on the streets.

I just don't see how people wouldn't give it a look as its a competitor to these cars

 

[exar333]

FYI - I just sold my Prelude today and test-drove a MS3 and GTI. As per most of the comments here, the GTI was VERY comfortable but lacked the boost feeling of the MS3. If I had a long commute (I don't) the GTI was very comfortable and would be my top choice of the two I tried today. The MS3 was way more fun than I expected, but the torque steer was noticeable after being used to a RWD car (the Z). For my tastes, the MS3 was more fun and drove very competently.

My Subaru dealership is trying to locate a WRX for me, and this is likely what I will get. The AWD will definitely be nice in the winter, but I will need to test drive it first, obviously, before making the call.

For the OP, and anyone looking for a car, analysis is great on paper, but it just doesn't tell you how it will feel behind the wheel. Not to hijack the thread, but these are the exact cars I was also looking at!

Side note - I wish the i5-turbo that is in the Volvo C30 was in more cars...my co-worker has this car. It is ugly (she loves it - good for her) but that engine would be AWESOME in the GTI. The power is a little more present and it feels just great off the line. I am hoping the new turbo for the Focus will be similar. It could be awesome...

More updates when I get to drive the WRX!

 

[Arkaign]

Your point?

We weren't ever talking about the ralliart.



My money would be spent on an evo. Better driver's car and takes to mods better.


Here's my stock block, stock cam evo IX with an FP red turbo on E85. Let's see your WRX pull this:

IIRC there's someone here in our garage that boosted his STI to that power range.

Comparing regular WRX to EVO is as dumb as comparing STI to Lancer Ralliart.

Mitsubishi has lost my trust long, long ago.

 

[Arkaign]

Btw, didn't you have a Turbo Z not long ago?

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2147839&page=3

"

well thanks for your elaborate insight into how great the vehicles are that GM produces. At least I listed reason I wouldn't buy one AND I gave alternatives to consider.....


You must own a shop and know the ins and outs of every vehicle on the road. You must be Marlin's business partner

edit:

I see you live in eagan.... head out to some Z get togethers this yr (assuming you actually still have your '09 Z listed in your sig). I'll take you for a spin in my boosted Z and maybe then you 'might' realize I am not a complete idiot when it comes to cars. Not saying I know everything, but I am decently versed in at least a couple different applications.

"

 

[Arkaign]

I'm not sure I could enjoy an Evo near as much as a Z, but I'm not in an area that really rewards AWD very much, unless you really take it out into the dirt/rocks/etc, but that'd be crazy to treat a street-tuned Evo or STI like that.

 

[Zivic]

Btw, didn't you have a Turbo Z not long ago?

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2147839&page=3

""

I have a twin turbo Z as well. APS twin turbo conversion, 9:1 CR motor ~15psi on pump gas

 

[Zivic]

Reason why I mention the Ralliart is because the Sti/Evo are 35k+ new, the MS3/GTI/WRX/Ralliart are under 30k

everybody compares these three cars but leaves out another 4 door sport compact and it has a turbo and it has AWD

I've really only seen once comparison on that car and it was on Edmunds, the wheels were heavy, the power was lacking, and people have quoted lots of turbo lag. Don't know as I've never even sat in one nor seen one even on the streets.

I just don't see how people wouldn't give it a look as its a competitor to these cars

not every car a manufacturer puts out is a winner. the evo is great car, ralliart.... not so much. subie puts out some decent cars, but my money would go for an evo. Just more fun to drive

 

[Zivic]

I'm not sure I could enjoy an Evo near as much as a Z, but I'm not in an area that really rewards AWD very much, unless you really take it out into the dirt/rocks/etc, but that'd be crazy to treat a street-tuned Evo or STI like that.

My Z is a lot of fun, but a very sensitive car. conditions need to be just right or it's just too much of a handful. Hard to put the power down if the roads are wet, or the temps are a bit chilly.

I have a 4 yr old and it's hard to drive the car when it's a two seater and I have a family of 3. I end up cruising around by myself. At least with the evo, he can come with, and with AWD I can drive it year round (MN).

 

[Zivic]

IIRC there's someone here in our garage that boosted his STI to that power range.

haven't seen too many stock block STI's into this range, but I know a couple.

Comparing regular WRX to EVO is as dumb as comparing STI to Lancer Ralliart.

true

Mitsubishi has lost my trust long, long ago.

my evo squeeks and rattles, but it's just too much fun to let those things bother me too much. I have driven a comparably powered STI and it just isn't as much fun. I have to admit, I would take the sound of the subie over the evo.

 

[Doppel]

Don't forget the WRX can do 60 in 5.0, according to C&D, http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/10q3/2011_subaru_impreza_wrx_sedan-short_take_road_test

 

[Arkaign]

my evo squeeks and rattles, but it's just too much fun to let those things bother me too much. I have driven a comparably powered STI and it just isn't as much fun. I have to admit, I would take the sound of the subie over the evo.

Fair enough, and at that power holy lord it would have to be fun. AWD is definitely doing it right >>>> FWD.

I know several people that have FWD cars in the 300whp-450whp range, and they are varying degrees of useless from anywhere but a really good rolling start. Cobalt SS, SRT4, and a Speed3. I like the Speed3 the best because it's just a well-designed car, I still wonder what it would have been like to see it as an AWD though. C1 supposedly supports AWD layout as a platform, but only rally variants and one-offs have ever been made afaik.

 

[Zivic]

Fair enough, and at that power holy lord it would have to be fun. AWD is definitely doing it right >>>> FWD.

I know several people that have FWD cars in the 300whp-450whp range, and they are varying degrees of useless from anywhere but a really good rolling start. Cobalt SS, SRT4, and a Speed3. I like the Speed3 the best because it's just a well-designed car, I still wonder what it would have been like to see it as an AWD though. C1 supposedly supports AWD layout as a platform, but only rally variants and one-offs have ever been made afaik.

very good friend of mine put together a very cool mazdaspeed protege. It was likely the nicest one in the country. made into a mazda sport magazine:

..... anyways, the car was a blast. had a disco potato and made 301 fwhp. But when you really wanted to drive it, it was just too much power. You were constantly understeering, and the thing would just smoke the tires. He eventually sold it and bought a G35 coupe that we built up similar to my Z.

I learned a lot from his experience. FWD can be a lot of fun, but they just have too many drawbacks.

 

[the DRIZZLE]

IMO there's nothing wrong with FWD if you are keeping the car under 250-275 hp. Not every car has to be a 300+ hp monster. Cars like the MS3 offer a good mix of performance, practicality, and price. Obviously if you want a true performance car RWD or AWD are better, but not everyone wants/needs/can afford that.

 

[Arkaign]

Yeah FWD has it's place, but there's definitely an upper power range that is a hard limit in terms of practicality/usability. Even if you go all out with a really good LSD, big fatty sticky tires, hard front suspension, etc, you end up with something halfway useful in a drag race, but then its not balanced anymore for tracking.

Even halo FWD cars like the Cobalt SS, which tears up a lot of similarly power RWD cars stock v stock on the track, add 150hp to it and add 150hp to the RWD/AWD car, and the FWD car won't really get any faster except down the straights somewhat.