Speed3, GTI or WRX?

[punjabiplaya]

i think that anyone can like the gti

a lot of people can like the wrx

but the speed3 is by far the most polarizing, until you drive it

 

[z1ggy]

This is almost the same question I asked myself when I was buying. I didn't find the Subaru very comfortable, the traction was a lot of fun, but I had to wind up the motor a bit to get power out of it, and it felt a little rough. Probably the best performer of the three (in a straight line at least) but I didn't like the ride too much and I didn't like the interior too much.

The GTI was very cushy, seats were pretty good, interior was great, and the ride was nice too. Power was fun, and there wasn't much torque steer, but it didn't have much guts. It could go quick, but nothing to write home about. Best interior of the three, most comfortable of the three, worst performer of the three.

I settled on the Speed3 eventually. The car responds very well to steering input, it feels really fun and feels lighter than it is. Power and torque are there from about 2.5krpm, but tapers off a bit after 5k-5.5krpm, very fun for daily driving, not the best ever for straight-line speed (but it'll still kick a little butt). It is FWD, and does understeer a *little* bit, but 99% of the time you won't notice it. Also, I've never had an issue with my Speed3 in the snow, just get decent snow tires and you'll be fine (if it's an issue). Also, I can get 30-33mpg on the highway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iTxa6F0AXo

Buy the WRX if you want to win light-to-light or absolutely require AWD (unlikely).

Buy the GTI if you want the smoothest, nicest ride and interior.

Buy the speed if you like a fun engine and great handling.

I will have to agree with everything you said. That's basically what I drew from my research/Test Driving. Although I haven't driven the WRX, I gather it is very much similiar to your experience.

I guess I am really unsure out of those 3 statements, which fits me best.

And to answer an earlier post, the GTI starts around 23k. Also the hatchback doesn't seem to come until you select the "premium" trim on subaru.com. Not sure if this is true or perhaps a website glitch as it seems to be offered in all the other trims.

 

[exar333]

I do. As noted earlier the MS3 can hold significantly more speed through a slalom course, 72.4mph vs 68.8mph. It can pull more Gs on a skid pad (last time I checked). Most importantly I felt what many reviewers have observed: great steering feel and chassis response/poise. It feels very communicative and the chassis responds very neatly to steering input. That sort of response and communication with the driver is something that Mazda has been doing very well for decades I think, and is what makes them so much fun to drive.

Edit: I think a lot of people get hung up on how fast their car accelerates from a stop. Admittedly that is pretty awesome. However, no one who has driven my car has been able to wipe the shit-eating grin off of their face because it's so much fun.

I am looking at a these choices as well for a winter vehicle. The WRX is leading my choices because of AWD (live in MN). I am a little afraid of the MS3 because of rust issues on Mazdas...the GTi is nice too.

What headroom does the MS3 have? I can get the WRX and pay $600 to get 300hp/300tq easy. Does the MS3 have the same capability?

 

[punjabiplaya]

I am looking at a these choices as well for a winter vehicle. The WRX is leading my choices because of AWD (live in MN). I am a little afraid of the MS3 because of rust issues on Mazdas...the GTi is nice too.

What headroom does the MS3 have? I can get the WRX and pay $600 to get 300hp/300tq easy. Does the MS3 have the same capability?

if you're talking about the AP, yes

haven't seen any rust issues from members from mazdaspeed forums in northern areas from earlier years (ie '07)

 

[jlee]

I am looking at a these choices as well for a winter vehicle. The WRX is leading my choices because of AWD (live in MN). I am a little afraid of the MS3 because of rust issues on Mazdas...the GTi is nice too.

What headroom does the MS3 have? I can get the WRX and pay $600 to get 300hp/300tq easy. Does the MS3 have the same capability?

I fit fine in the MS3 at 6'.

 

[JCH13]

I am looking at a these choices as well for a winter vehicle. The WRX is leading my choices because of AWD (live in MN). I am a little afraid of the MS3 because of rust issues on Mazdas...the GTi is nice too.

What headroom does the MS3 have? I can get the WRX and pay $600 to get 300hp/300tq easy. Does the MS3 have the same capability?

MS3 can be AP'd or Hypertech'd depending on your power goals and build. The Hypertech seems to be good for 300whp or less (i think) whereas the AP is good for higher-power builds with a professional tune. The MS3 w/ Mazdaspeed cold-air intake have been dyno'd at something like 275whp, you'd probably get 240whp with the WRX (though I don't know scoobies that well).

I have noticed some stone chips on my car, I'm just going to have it touched up every year or two to keep the rust at bay. Get the hood bra if you buy one, I regret not getting one. Also I should get some mud flaps, which would help with the chips.

It handles snow like a tank. I have little issue driving out of my driveway though 18+ inches of snow. With lots of weight on your drive wheels and really good traction control (which is easy to disable) I've never been stuck, nor felt like I was going to get stuck. Just get decent snows, some idiot on AT returned a MS3 because the stock summers did poorly in the snow :awe:

Plenty of room in the front, my 'little' brother fits fine at 6'4", and I find it downright spacious at 5'9". Very comfortable to ride in, definitely my favorite seats (Volvos excluded) drove it to NH from CO in four days, never felt fatigued from road noise, drive harshness, or twitchy steering.

 

[JCH13]

I will have to agree with everything you said. That's basically what I drew from my research/Test Driving. Although I haven't driven the WRX, I gather it is very much similiar to your experience.

I guess I am really unsure out of those 3 statements, which fits me best.

And to answer an earlier post, the GTI starts around 23k. Also the hatchback doesn't seem to come until you select the "premium" trim on subaru.com. Not sure if this is true or perhaps a website glitch as it seems to be offered in all the other trims.

That's something to think about then. I think the MS3 with the new tech package can be very featureful, if you will. All of them will be pleasant enough to drive that you won't regret it.

I got onto the on-ramp test driving my MS3, eased on the throttle around a turn, and was sold. Did some clover-leaf interchanges at like 65 or so, the salesman was VERY squirmy, he didn't realize what the car could do

FWIW I got my MS3 for 23k+TTL.

 

[SamurAchzar]

I really only want an M/T. Didn't try the DSG, heard good things, but I need that clutch!! Driving just isn't the same with out one for me.

Try the DSG. When operated as manual, it's like nothing you've ever tried. For me it adds much depth to the experience, the combination is just so good with that motor.

Also, I don't care that much about pure speed. I drove the GTI on the highway and took it from 60-80 in what felt like a heartbeat. It was good enough for me. Also drove the speed3 and it was just insane, felt like I was stuck to the seat when I floored it.

If the GTI ticks that box for you, then by all means go for it.

Not to pile on, but that has NEVER been true since the WRX was introduced in the US, never. In fact, a tuned GTI still would not hang with a stock 2009+ except at 100mph+, even then it would be a maybe.

I might be wrong about the last gen US spec WRX. I raced a 2009 STI (hatch) a few times with my (chipped) GTI and it was dead even most of the time. The STI weighs significantly more than the GTI (about 400lbs more) and the AWD system has more significant power loss, and then manual is just slower than DSG.

Of course, from standstill the STI would run away but how many drivers repeat AWD launch routines? It's very hard on the drivetrain.

Again I don't know about last gen WRX, might be faster than I think. My experience shows that in most cases, the DSG bridges whatever theoretical gap there could be based on dry stats with most drivers.

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

FWD is for women. Get the rex.

 

[MotF Bane]

FWD is for women. Get the rex.

I think JCH would disagree with you.

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

I think JCH would disagree with you.

Then he's a dumbass. FWD is a joke for anyone that likes driving.

 

[MotF Bane]

Then he's a dumbass. FWD is a joke for anyone that likes driving.

*sigh*

 

[zerocool84]

Then he's a dumbass. FWD is a joke for anyone that likes driving.

Hahaha whatever helps you sleep at night.

 

[coxmaster]

Since the topic of a chip/tune came up.. Don't forget that the GTI is easily chipped as well.

A simple tune will give you upwards of 265whp and 300wtw so the GTI can put out the same power as any of the others when tuned.

Of course FWD is still an issue, I've only got 270tq and its still a handful to keep the front from spinning

 

[Zap]

I settled on the Speed3 eventually. The car responds very well to steering input, it feels really fun and feels lighter than it is. Power and torque are there from about 2.5krpm, but tapers off a bit after 5k-5.5krpm, very fun for daily driving, not the best ever for straight-line speed (but it'll still kick a little butt). It is FWD, and does understeer a *little* bit, but 99% of the time you won't notice it. Also, I've never had an issue with my Speed3 in the snow, just get decent snow tires and you'll be fine (if it's an issue). Also, I can get 30-33mpg on the highway.

The MS3 is like my MS6. Lots of mid-range, but loses steam at higher RPMs. Also, I did notice that in relaxed highway driving (AKA cruise control set to 65MPH) my MS6 is capable of higher gas mileage than my wife's WRX, but TBH they both seem to get above the EPA 25MPG that they are rated at.

The WRX becomes very fast in a straight line if you keep in mind that you need to rev it more, otherwise the mid-range of the Mazdas will make them feel more strong.

BTW JCH13, have you driven a 2011 WRX? If you were test driving 2009 models against your MS3, then you don't know what they improved with the 2011. Besides the widebody look, I think they may have improved the suspension and made the tires wider. While your MS3 should be more nimble than my MS6, the 2011 WRX makes my MS6 feel all cushy and relaxed.

I am looking at a these choices as well for a winter vehicle. The WRX is leading my choices because of AWD (live in MN). I am a little afraid of the MS3 because of rust issues on Mazdas...the GTi is nice too.

What headroom does the MS3 have? I can get the WRX and pay $600 to get 300hp/300tq easy. Does the MS3 have the same capability?

My wife's old Mazda 3s never had a rust problem (2005-2011) and my MS6 only had a touch of rust where I got a really bad stone chip, and it only showed a touch of rust after 3 Winters before I got it touched up. Don't know if it makes a difference, but we tend to get our cars washed (those automatic ones with undercarriage spray) every 2-3 weeks during Winter, especially a few days after a storm. Basically, when the roads become dry so we no longer get spray on the sides of the car, we get 'em washed.

The MS3 should have quite a few aftermarket mods for it by now since it is an ongoing model, unlike all previous Mazdaspeed models which only lasted 2 model years each.

My wife loves the AWD for snow. She had snow tires on her Mazda 3s and the exact same tires (re-mounted on different wheels) worked a lot better on the WRX. Sure, the braking and cornering are the same, but nothing beats being able to accelerate in snow almost like a normal vehicle on dry ground.

 

[Arkaign]

Since the topic of a chip/tune came up.. Don't forget that the GTI is easily chipped as well.

A simple tune will give you upwards of 265whp and 300wtw so the GTI can put out the same power as any of the others when tuned.

Of course FWD is still an issue, I've only got 270tq and its still a handful to keep the front from spinning

GTI is indeed a nice car, I think you've probably reached that magic threshold beyond which there's not much to gain (other than rolling speeds at signficant digits!).

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

Hahaha whatever helps you sleep at night.

Yeah, you guys are right. FWD is great for performance vehicles. That why F1 cars are FWD.

Wait, they're not.

How bout

Aussie V8 Supercars?
Nascar?
La Mans?
Formular Ford?
Indycar?

Yeah, they're all RWD. For a reason. FWD sucks balls.

 

[punjabiplaya]

hypertech sucks balls, AP is so much better, even with OTS maps

I love my ms3 to death, but I'd be hesitant to recommend it to anyone over a gti unless they're 12 yrs old inside like I am.

again OP, whatever you've driven and suits your needs the best, that's what you should get, our input should be secondary to what you like and want/need

 

[zerocool84]

Yeah, you guys are right. FWD is great for performance vehicles. That why F1 cars are FWD.

Wait, they're not.

How bout

Aussie V8 Supercars?
Nascar?
La Mans?
Formular Ford?
Indycar?

Yeah, they're all RWD. For a reason. FWD sucks balls.

So by your logic AWD sucks balls then. It's always uneducated people that say stuff like this. The same type of people that say driving anything other than manual transmission is retarded.

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

So by your logic AWD sucks balls then. It's always uneducated people that say stuff like this. The same type of people that say driving anything other than manual transmission is retarded.

They would use AWD in F1 but it was banned. It was used for years.

V8 Supercars are restricted to RWD only, as are Nascar.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Then he's a dumbass. FWD is a joke for anyone that likes driving.

Usually this kind of comments come from people who very rarely, if ever, drive hard. Give me a Renaultsport Megane RS250 Cup over any WRX, any day. It'll chew it and then spit it in pieces. Likewise last-gen Focus RS.

With the chassis and drivetrains used today, FWD can be useful up to about 300bhp (used to be capped at 200bhp just 10 years ago). It warrants a different driving style than RWD but that's not to say it's less aggressive or fun.

 

[jlee]

Yeah, you guys are right. FWD is great for performance vehicles. That why F1 cars are FWD.

Wait, they're not.

How bout

Aussie V8 Supercars?
Nascar?
La Mans?
Formular Ford?
Indycar?

Yeah, they're all RWD. For a reason. FWD sucks balls.

Any true car enthusiast should appreciate a fun car, FWD or not. Will I poke fun at a Speed3 owner? Absolutely...ask JCH13. Will I turn down a chance to drive it? Hell no. :awe:

 

[Zap]

I love my ms3 to death, but I'd be hesitant to recommend it to anyone over a gti unless they're 12 yrs old inside like I am.

:hmm:



:biggrin:

 

[JCH13]

Then he's a dumbass. FWD is a joke for anyone that likes driving.

You're just an ignorant douche. A fun driving experience is about so much more than the drive layout.

Ask yourself why so many car comparisons rank the MS3 and GTI above several AWD platforms.

Any true car enthusiast should appreciate a fun car, FWD or not. Will I poke fun at a Speed3 owner? Absolutely...ask JCH13. Will I turn down a chance to drive it? Hell no. :awe:

This exactly sums it up. For someone with a 300hp AWD car, and a 300hp mid-engine RWD car, he sure can't wipe the shit eating grin off his face when I hand him the keys.

 

[z1ggy]

For all the people posting about all the 0-60 times, or what car eating up another..those things don't make a huge difference to me. I am an engineer..so naturally I did a trade study on these 3 cars, plus 37 others I thought I would like. I placed 50% weighting on cost, 30% on MPG, 15% on hp and 5% on 0-60. Results were GTI>WRX>Speed3. This is a purely statisical way of looking at a car, but it gave me some grounds to start on. The real speed I care about is more of a 40-80mph time. How many times on the road have u gone 0-60? something like 40-70mph from an on ramp to cruising speed passing a slow soccer mom is what I am more interested in. As a side note, I am also hesitant about the WRX just because I know I'm going to get smoked on the insurance.